WTF Russell?

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WTF Russell?

Postby RiverDog » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:45 am

I haven't seen any replays of that last play that destroyed our last viable chance to get into FG range and it's not clear who's decision it was not to spike the ball to give us at least a couple of plays to complete a short sideline pass or for Russell scramble to get us 5 or 10 measly little yards, but it not only was ill advised, Russell was acting as if he needed to make a huge play when in reality all he needed was 10 yards.

Has he lost his head? Where was his internal clock and situational awareness? Are their too many Anthony's blowing smoke up his hind end causing him to believe that he's a super hero?

Don't get me wrong, I love Russell to death as he is far and away the best QB this franchise has ever had and has been directly responsible for the best football played in our 40+ years, but that last play was horrid, both in concept and in execution, and we lost our last chance of winning because of it. I don't mind him not spiking the ball so much as if he's going to run a play hoping to catch them off guard and it's not immediately obvious that we've caught them with their pants down, then unload it and live for another down.

It was pure torture watching that game yesterday. What a frigging embarrassment.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby burrrton » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:59 am

It was pure torture watching that game yesterday. What a frigging embarrassment.


Hear hear.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby idhawkman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:00 am

We had them confused on that last play for sure. They were not covering and their LBs were not in place. But.... Our oline wasn't ready yet. It took another 4 seconds for them to get ready and the defense by then had adjusted. This game was BS all the way.

Dynasty teams don't drop lead bombs like this, neither do elite players or elite defenses. Not even good players, teams do this. This in a nutshell was a s*** show.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby mykc14 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:17 am

RiverDog wrote:I haven't seen any replays of that last play that destroyed our last viable chance to get into FG range and it's not clear who's decision it was not to spike the ball to give us at least a couple of plays to complete a short sideline pass or for Russell scramble to get us 5 or 10 measly little yards, but it not only was ill advised, Russell was acting as if he needed to make a huge play when in reality all he needed was 10 yards.

Has he lost his head? Where was his internal clock and situational awareness? Are their too many Anthony's blowing smoke up his hind end causing him to believe that he's a super hero?

Don't get me wrong, I love Russell to death as he is far and away the best QB this franchise has ever had and has been directly responsible for the best football played in our 40+ years, but that last play was horrid, both in concept and in execution, and we lost our last chance of winning because of it. I don't mind him not spiking the ball so much as if he's going to run a play hoping to catch them off guard and it's not immediately obvious that we've caught them with their pants down, then unload it and live for another down.

It was pure torture watching that game yesterday. What a frigging embarrassment.


Riv, do you listen to the announcers during the game? I can't stand them overall but sometimes you get some interesting tidbits and this is one of them. They spent a lot of time discussing this after the Houston win. We don't spike the ball in our 2-min offense. All of our 2 min plays are one word audibles and it takes just as much time to get up and call the play and run it than it would to call the play and spike it (according to PC). It also doesn't allow the defense a chance to huddle. It's crazy that in 2 weeks we saw how well it can work (Houston was clearly confused on that last play when Jimmy caught the TD) and how poorly it can work yesterday. RW had nobody open, except maybe Luke early, but he probably wasn't looking at him since he was trying to get something along the sideline.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby idhawkman » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:41 am

I have to rewatch that last play because it took too long to call that one word play. Simple as that. Riv is right in that if they had just spiked it, it would be fine but it took forever to get that last play called and snapped.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:34 am

that was a VERY frustrating few seconds, for sure. Especially since we never should have been in the position to need to score at that point of the game at ALL. There is so much blame to go around (Had Walsh made just one and we would have kicked the extra points, etc..), but I have to say that even though RW had this "I'm going to have to win this thing all by myself" mentality that irritated me all day. Not sure if it was Russ or Bev, but really, 4 singles scores a run too. Strike out or home run, like the commentator said, is so true.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:35 am

Hawk Sista wrote:that was a VERY frustrating few seconds, for sure. Especially since we never should have been in the position to need to score at that point of the game at ALL. There is so much blame to go around (Had Walsh made just one and we would have kicked the extra points, etc..), but I have to say that even though RW had this "I'm going to have to win this thing all by myself" mentality that irritated me all day. Not sure if it was Russ or Bev, but really, 4 singles scores a run too. Strike out or home run, like the commentator said, is so true.


The "have to win this thing myself" mentality is often a result of highly competitive (and successful) people and is made worse by the underperformance of the OL and subsequent lack of a run game.
Clear up the issues along the OL and I'm sure you will see a different QB.
The play calling wasn't doing him any favors, either and maybe caused that desperation which resulted in going for big strikes instead of methodical marching down field.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby mykc14 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:43 am

idhawkman wrote:I have to rewatch that last play because it took too long to call that one word play. Simple as that. Riv is right in that if they had just spiked it, it would be fine but it took forever to get that last play called and snapped.


I don't disagree at all. I don't know if I like the philosophy personally, but it did work perfectly last week and I would find it a bit hypocritical to praise the strategy last week and then complain about it this week (not saying any of you did this).

Of course if they would have spiked it the clock would have stopped with about 17ish (just off of memory could be off) seconds left, but that's not the issue. It's a philosophical issue, it's not like they made a mistake in the moment that was the plan going into it and they executed the plan exactly how they were supposed to (up to the execution of the actual play). The issue was either the plan was bad (if it were bad this week then it was also bad last week) or the play itself was bad/executed poorly by the players (this is certainly true here as RW didn't have anybody open, he didn't throw it away like he should have, and somebody got through the OL). I wouldn't be supprised to see us do the same thing, philosophically speaking, when we get in another similar situation.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:34 pm

Are you kidding me? Leave it in the kicker's hands after he goes 0-3? I'd be thinking just like Russell that day too. That sorry kicker cost us the game. I'm going to put the ball in his hands at the end? I know publically the team isn't going to throw the kicker under the bus, especially Russell. In game, you know those guys, especially Russell, had to have that on their mind. TD or lose was likely why Russ did what he did. Screw that kicker. Not sure why we signed him and I hope we don't keep him. 0-3 at home is unacceptable.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:42 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Are you kidding me? Leave it in the kicker's hands after he goes 0-3? I'd be thinking just like Russell that day too. That sorry kicker cost us the game. I'm going to put the ball in his hands at the end? I know publically the team isn't going to throw the kicker under the bus, especially Russell. In game, you know those guys, especially Russell, had to have that on their mind. TD or lose was likely why Russ did what he did. Screw that kicker. Not sure why we signed him and I hope we don't keep him. 0-3 at home is unacceptable.


That's an excellent quote Asea. I think the bellyaching about Russ is a bit out of hand. He has 17 TD passes at the break and is running with the ball better than ever. He directed an offense that put up 440 yards yesterday. To me the most amazing thing about the bombs away approach isn't that they do it. Its that Russ can buy enough time to take that many deep shots in a game behind this sieve of a line.

He throws a great deep ball.Even on the hail Mary he had a houdini like escape to even get the ball off and threw a perfect howitzer at the back line which hit Graham's hands but was knocked loose by McAvoy.
It was the only type of passing game that could beat the Texans offensive onslaught. Its also worth noting that the 2 picks yesterday were those "first down" type shorter passes everyone wants to see.

Yesterday was about one guy ultimately. Walsh. I hate kickers in general and SH was making me sweat like a drug mule going through customs towards the end of his time here too.
But can we really rely on this guy? surely they are bringing in guys to work out right? or maybe too short a week.
But I think its totally correct that PC and Russ wanted no part of watching Walsh line up again yesterday.They were going for the win and damn near pulled it off.

Either Way if it weren't for Goff and Wendz Russ would be the favorite for MVP. Nobody else would throw for 450 when his team minus him went off for 5 yards...

He aint the problem
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:16 pm

I agree that RW is not "the" problem and add that we would be well south of .500 without him as our QB, no doubt. That said, the last few plays were mistakes and poor clock management and he was a part of that. The D was solid to great all day but not when it mattered most, so they are not off the hook either. The stupid penalties, the kicker and the O-line were the biggest issues for me.... but to look past RW in his final seconds and the D in theirs isn't quite seeing the whole thing.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:23 pm

The "have to win this thing myself" mentality is often a result of highly competitive (and successful) people and is made worse by the underperformance of the OL and subsequent lack of a run game.
Clear up the issues along the OL and I'm sure you will see a different QB.

The play calling wasn't doing him any favors, either and maybe caused that desperation which resulted in going for big strikes instead of methodical marching down field.


I agree on the mentality. It has won us more games than it has ever lost us. Point taken. The running game was not as bad as is being advertised, here. Rawls averaged 4.3 ypc yet the play calls seemed like we were 30 points down with bomb after bomb. Again, I wasn't sure if that was on RW or Bev (or alternatively what the D was giving). It was, however, frustrating. It worked last week and did not this week.
Last edited by Hawk Sista on Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:38 pm

Russ had a bad last few seconds for sure. So did the defense.
The run game thing is frustrating to say the least. They did get around 140 by committee though. Like I say though watch that last play. Millimeters from a successful HM.
We will win more than we lose with Wilson. He would be 3rd or 4th on my blame game list from Sunday.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:44 pm

The run game stats look better than it actually was.
Wilson ran for around 75 yards and was the leading rusher, so the rest of them ran for about 70 or so.
That's not much of a run game and add it to last game and we maybe had 75 yards from the RBs in 2 games.
Simply not good enough.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:17 pm

Russ nevers even considers that we could lose. He's supremely confident and on the whole, for good reason.

But sometimes he's wrong. He's not perfect and does make the occasional, and sometimes inexplicable mistake. People like to refer to him as a robot, but he's really not.

At the end of the day though I still wouldn't trade him for anyone.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby RiverDog » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:11 pm

mykc14 wrote:Riv, do you listen to the announcers during the game? I can't stand them overall but sometimes you get some interesting tidbits and this is one of them. They spent a lot of time discussing this after the Houston win. We don't spike the ball in our 2-min offense. All of our 2 min plays are one word audibles and it takes just as much time to get up and call the play and run it than it would to call the play and spike it (according to PC). It also doesn't allow the defense a chance to huddle. It's crazy that in 2 weeks we saw how well it can work (Houston was clearly confused on that last play when Jimmy caught the TD) and how poorly it can work yesterday. RW had nobody open, except maybe Luke early, but he probably wasn't looking at him since he was trying to get something along the sideline.


To answer your first question, I watched yesterday's game in a LV bar and they didn't have the audio for the Hawks game on, and I attended the Houston game in person, so at least as it applies to those two games, no, I did not listen to the announcers.

I would have preferred that we spiked the ball, but that wasn't my main beef. My main beef was that Russell screwed around too long looking for a receiver. He seems to do that a lot.

The biggest difference between yesterday and the Houston game was that we had to have a TD vs. Houston, and that might have been our best chance to get the ball into the end zone. All we needed yesterday was a FG. Plus there was a considerable difference in field position. And I hear what ASF says about putting the game in Walsh's hands, but you still have to play the odds. The odds of scoring a TD from 40 yards out are less than 10%, whereas there's at least an 80% chance of converting a FG if we get inside 50 yards.

Not that it's beat up on Russell time, but there was another instance where he lost track of the game situation when he kept the ball on a called running play and as he was about to be tackled behind the LOS, he has a brain fart and instinctively throws the ball away, and our tight end (I think it was Luke) was called for blocking downfield on a passing play, which is what he was supposed to be doing.

Russell's uncharacteristic bonehead mistakes, Walsh blowing 3 FG attempts, penalty after penalty after penalty, and our vaunted defense giving up 70 yard in 4 plays are just some of the reasons why it was so frustratingly difficult to watch that game. That was by far our worst 4 quarters of football this season, perhaps in several seasons.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Largent80 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:36 pm

Bevells route trees are so old and unimaginitive that their DB's knew exactly where all of our receivers were going. NOBODY except Dougy got open.

Bevell is a dump truck.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:46 pm

Mistakes or whatever taken into account, we wouldn't even have an offense or 5 wins without Russ and the receivers. We have no running game to speak of. Special teams has given us nearly nothing along with the missed kicks.

Russell Wilson and our receiving corps are carrying this offense right now. As they go, so goes the game. The put up a game for the ages last week and were bad this week. But they still did enough to win, but special teams let us down big time.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby The POPE » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:49 pm

I see Russell running out of the pocket or not stepping up in the pocket way to often ( on the occasions when there is a pocket). He has to evacuate the pocket in order to see downfield. When he runs to oneside he effectively cuts the field in half, thus taking away some of his recieving options or spins into trouble making it harder for the o-line. His height is a hindrance. His mobility makes up for it somewhat if he can run around and by enough time to for a reciever to break loose deep. Rarely does he run straight up the field, usually does a figure 8 before heading up field. He is the bet QB to ever dress out in a Hawks uniform, but think what the ceiling would be with about another four inches of height. Then he could read the whole field not just half, not withstanding designed rollouts of course,
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Anthony » Mon Nov 06, 2017 5:52 pm

The issue once again is the HC and OC refusal to run what was working. Until its almost too tale. The play calling and offense we ran for 3 qtrs was the same tired boom or bust offense., almost all routes were long and slow developing. Instead of what had been working for the four games prior, uptempo, quick passes with timely booms(throwing long) Also, of course, was the numerous freaking penalties.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:24 pm

OMG Mr. POPE. are YOU out of YOUR MIND to mention Wilson's height or lack of it to be a problem ????????????????? People in this forum consider such talk to be sacrilegious and the epitome of treason. You will lucky to only be labeled Anthony Jr. They are going to lecture you about how it is all about "passing Lanes" and how even Randy Johnson couldn't even see OVER the O-Line and yada, yada, yada. Oh, and FORGET mentioning that maybe Wilson can't see a receiver because of his height they will post until they are blue (Seahawk blue i'm sure) in the face that it is all about "timing" and THATS how RW knows when to chuck the ball... Believe me, I heard it all. My mistake was that Wilson actually turned out to be pretty darn good and has over come his height issues, at least, they don't crop up as often as I had imagined when he was first drafted.

What I think RW needs is a decent O-Line but will ever have one with Pete & John in charge?? I doubt it.

Oh, and this game was lost when John and Petr decided to pinch pennies again, this time by letting SH go and bringing in Blair (not Steve LOL) Walsh a known LOSER.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Agent 86 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:30 pm

I might get lambasted for saying this, but I think the Skins won this game more than the Hawks lost it. Their D played great, very aggressive, and they made plays when they needed it. Cousins threw a couple balls with so much pressure in his face and completed him it was insane. And Doctson's catch was special. How many times would that ball hit the ground with other receivers, I am gonna say 8 times out of 10.

Hawks showed the same old thing and it wasn't good enough. Full marks to Washington for going on the road with a depleted lineup and hanging around in a tough stadium and making the plays when necessary. Nothing is given in this league from one week to the next.

Not to discount anything anyone has said in this thread, it all has full value and can be discussed to death, but just pouring a little water on the fire and give people something else to think about other than why the Hawks lost.

Also, Bobby Wagner is the best linebacker in Hawks history no?? Man is a stud.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby The POPE » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:48 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:OMG Mr. POPE. are YOU out of YOUR MIND to mention Wilson's height or lack of it to be a problem ????????????????? People in this forum consider such talk to be sacrilegious and the epitome of treason. You will lucky to only be labeled Anthony Jr. They are going to lecture you about how it is all about "passing Lanes" and how even Randy Johnson couldn't even see OVER the O-Line and yada, yada, yada. Oh, and FORGET mentioning that maybe Wilson can't see a receiver because of his height they will post until they are blue (Seahawk blue i'm sure) in the face that it is all about "timing" and THATS how RW knows when to chuck the ball... Believe me, I heard it all. My mistake was that Wilson actually turned out to be pretty darn good and has over come his height issues, at least, they don't crop up as often as I had imagined when he was first drafted.

What I think RW needs is a decent O-Line but will ever have one with Pete & John in charge?? I doubt it.

Oh, and this game was lost when John and Petr decided to pinch pennies again, this time by letting SH go and bringing in Blair (not Steve LOL) Walsh a known LOSER.
.

Just calling how I see it. Russell is a great player no doubt about it, but when he gets happy feet he is out of the pocket too early and then everybody else has to adjust. I'm sure if the o-line wasn't such a farce his feet would not be so "happy" and maybe he would step up and make a throw instead of reversing out and running 25 yards behind the LOS. Yes, I believe cable is a turd and bevel ain't far behind. Maybe next year we will drop some of the high paid underperformers on the defensive side and invest in the o-line heavier. Yes, that defense that most teams have figured out. The old gray mare just ain't what she used to be. Of course Cable and Bevel need to be gone, they are probably part the reason that qualify o-lineman won't sign with Seattle ( and of course $ too). Cable has had more mercy bestowed upon him during the wait to create a quality o-line than any sinner ever has. I think he is so convinced with his own BS that he can make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t that he wouldn't know a quality NFL o-lineman if one sat on his face. Does anybody really think Brown would have chosen Seattle if he had a choice, I seriously doubt it. That's all for now.

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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Anthony » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:54 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:OMG Mr. POPE. are YOU out of YOUR MIND to mention Wilson's height or lack of it to be a problem ????????????????? People in this forum consider such talk to be sacrilegious and the epitome of treason. You will lucky to only be labeled Anthony Jr. They are going to lecture you about how it is all about "passing Lanes" and how even Randy Johnson couldn't even see OVER the O-Line and yada, yada, yada. Oh, and FORGET mentioning that maybe Wilson can't see a receiver because of his height they will post until they are blue (Seahawk blue i'm sure) in the face that it is all about "timing" and THATS how RW knows when to chuck the ball... Believe me, I heard it all. My mistake was that Wilson actually turned out to be pretty darn good and has over come his height issues, at least, they don't crop up as often as I had imagined when he was first drafted.

What I think RW needs is a decent O-Line but will ever have one with Pete & John in charge?? I doubt it.

Oh, and this game was lost when John and Petr decided to pinch pennies again, this time by letting SH go and bringing in Blair (not Steve LOL) Walsh a known LOSER.


I highly doubt anyone will say anything to pope he is a troll and I foed him as have others he is not worth the time. I agree with you on oline.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby mykc14 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:36 pm

RiverDog wrote:
To answer your first question, I watched yesterday's game in a LV bar and they didn't have the audio for the Hawks game on, and I attended the Houston game in person, so at least as it applies to those two games, no, I did not listen to the announcers.

I would have preferred that we spiked the ball, but that wasn't my main beef. My main beef was that Russell screwed around too long looking for a receiver. He seems to do that a lot

Not that it's beat up on Russell time, but there was another instance where he lost track of the game situation when he kept the ball on a called running play and as he was about to be tackled behind the LOS, he has a brain fart and instinctively throws the ball away, and our tight end (I think it was Luke) was called for blocking downfield on a passing play, which is what he was supposed to be doing.



I agree that he held the ball too long and has done it many times in the past.

As far as the situation you're talking about I know it looks bad but it is much better for him to throw the ball away and take an offensive PI call than to take a sack in that particular situation. A sack means that you lose the yards (5-7 yards), lose the down and the QB takes a hit. An OPI call means you lose the yards (10) but you get the down back and the QB doesn't take a hit. When you run the read option the QB is going to mid-read the play sometimes and give the ball when they should keep it and keep the ball when they should give it...

Don't get me wrong RW was bad on Sunday, the sack on that second to last play was inexcusable, but IMO he actually did the right thing by throwing the ball away on the OPI...
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby The POPE » Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:53 pm

I highly doubt anyone will say anything to pope he is a troll and I foed him as have others he is not worth the time. I agree with you on oline.[/quote]

Anthony my dear boy:
What in any of my posts would ever make you think I'm a troll?
I post a very limited amount and have never once trolled anyone. Forgive me if I made what you think is derogatory remark in regards to KING RUSSELL, but some times the truth hurts. Face it, the man is vertically challenged and it hinders his ability to see receivers over the o-line and d-line. I paid homage to Russell as being the best QB to put on a Hawks uniform, but i will not worship him.
I am aware that I do not post on every thread and regularly join in the banter among the regulars on this forum, but that does not make me a Troll when I do post.
You need to get off our knees, stop bobbin for Russell shaft AND GET A FREAKIN LIFE.

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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby idhawkman » Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:17 am

mykc14 wrote:
I don't disagree at all. I don't know if I like the philosophy personally, but it did work perfectly last week and I would find it a bit hypocritical to praise the strategy last week and then complain about it this week (not saying any of you did this).

Of course if they would have spiked it the clock would have stopped with about 17ish (just off of memory could be off) seconds left, but that's not the issue. It's a philosophical issue, it's not like they made a mistake in the moment that was the plan going into it and they executed the plan exactly how they were supposed to (up to the execution of the actual play). The issue was either the plan was bad (if it were bad this week then it was also bad last week) or the play itself was bad/executed poorly by the players (this is certainly true here as RW didn't have anybody open, he didn't throw it away like he should have, and somebody got through the OL). I wouldn't be supprised to see us do the same thing, philosophically speaking, when we get in another similar situation.


See this is the problem with our coaches - not understanding the situation at all. Last week we had an oline that had been together all fricken season and knew what the one word was and how to play it. This week, we didn't have that in place. How much do you really expect Brown to know in 5 days? The oline was not prepared this week to do that same thing and the coaching staff had no clue to make the adjustment.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:50 am

I've been saying for a few years now that these guys don't know Offense. Certainly they don't know it as well as they do Defense where they select players and modify the Defense to fit the unique talents that player brings.
On Offense they go after shiny bangles then don't know what to do with them at the expense of the building blocks on the Offense. Just look at Harvin and Graham. With Harvin they got a head case they should have known about and with Graham they took a dominating pass catching large TE and are still trying to make him a common blocker. In the mean time with poor selections of players and a growing mound of evidence bad coaching or coaching philosophy, the OL has faded from being about middle of the pack to one of the worst in the league. Add in unimaginative play calling and designs that don't seem to have changed in 4 years and we have opposing Defenses knowing what to expect and when from our Offense.
Nobody fears this Offense except for Wilson and the big play. Chances are if the opposing Defense bends into the Red Zone, they have a very good chance of coming away with only a FG at best and that has to end for us to be successful long term.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby burrrton » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:04 am

I might get lambasted for saying this, but I think the Skins won this game more than the Hawks lost it.


I'm not going to lambaste you, but when their team was about half practice squad players, yeah, they can play well, but there's *no way* they should be able to outplay the talent on our roster (even down ET).

This was an embarrassing loss that's 99% on us.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:56 am

It was an awful putrid loss. Virtually inexcusable and leaves very little margin for error going forward.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:59 am

NorthHawk; Welcome to MY world. I too have stated many, many times that Pete Carroll doesn't know Jack about the offensive side of the ball which is baffling considering a great defensive mind SHOULD understand his opposite. Pete is the flip side of Mike Holmgren, Holmy was a "genious" on offense but totally depended on Fritz Shumer for his defense and when Fritz died of cancer before MH had coached a single game for our Seahawks he was lost and never did recover.,

Now we have Pete, he is an IMBECILE when it comes to offense and so he relies on morons like Darrel Bevel, it could be worse, he could have hired Sark. But, the TRUTH is that Pete doesn't want to hire anyone who might tell Pete that he is full of it from time to time.

It is this failing by both MH and PC that will rightfully keep them out of the Pro-Football Hall of Fame. It is the difference between a GREAT head coach like the Lombardi's , Landry's, Walsh's , Jimmy Johnson's, and Belichek's. It why those coaches created dynasties and why our Seahawks will NEVER be a dynasty under Pete Carroll.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:43 pm

The sad thing is the Offense doesn't need to be great, it just needs to be consistently competent and the rest will take care of itself.
We saw that in the Super Bowl years and it's obvious that a great Defense doesn't need a greatest show on turf type of Offense.
Unfortunately we will be stuck looking back at what could (and should) have been instead of what was. And it's a shame.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby RiverDog » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:26 pm

mykc14 wrote:As far as the situation you're talking about I know it looks bad but it is much better for him to throw the ball away and take an offensive PI call than to take a sack in that particular situation. A sack means that you lose the yards (5-7 yards), lose the down and the QB takes a hit. An OPI call means you lose the yards (10) but you get the down back and the QB doesn't take a hit. When you run the read option the QB is going to mid-read the play sometimes and give the ball when they should keep it and keep the ball when they should give it...

Don't get me wrong RW was bad on Sunday, the sack on that second to last play was inexcusable, but IMO he actually did the right thing by throwing the ball away on the OPI...


I don't have the replay available to see the down and distance or the precise yards lost, but my impression was that he was only going to lose a couple of yards by eating it, so we're talking about a 7 or 8 yard difference, ie 2nd and 12 vs. 1st and 20 or (or whatever the down/distance was). Most teams would rather have the shorter yardage to gain vs. the extra down. Plus I don't think Russell's throwing the ball away saved him from a potential hit vs. just eating it. The play would have stopped at the same point in both scenarios.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby idhawkman » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:17 pm

He was just about to cross the LOS so it was only 2 or 3 yards at the most.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby mykc14 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:33 pm

RiverDog wrote:I don't have the replay available to see the down and distance or the precise yards lost, but my impression was that he was only going to lose a couple of yards by eating it, so we're talking about a 7 or 8 yard difference, ie 2nd and 12 vs. 1st and 20 or (or whatever the down/distance was). Most teams would rather have the shorter yardage to gain vs. the extra down. Plus I don't think Russell's throwing the ball away saved him from a potential hit vs. just eating it. The play would have stopped at the same point in both scenarios.


I would have to see it again to know the exact difference between where a trow-away vs. a sack would put him but either way we are looking at from the perspective of people watching the play, taking a long time to think about it and then saying he was X yards away from the LOS so he should have taken the sack. He's not going to have time to figure out at exactly what point he should have thrown it away or taken the sack, he is trying to get yards, then "oh Shoot I can't get anywhere" then throw it away. Even if at that point he decides to just dive on the ground he is going to get hit harder than he would throwing the ball away. At that point he is a runner and it would be very hard to give himself up without taking some sort of a hit.

At the end of the day it wasn't a matter of a brain fart by RW. IMO he did exactly what he thought was the right play in that situation and ultimately I agree with him. At the same time agree that 2nd and 12-13 is better than 1st and 20, but it is also impossible to ask RW to figure that out in that situation. There also is the slight possibility that if he throws it away it is just an incomplete pass, no penalty at all. Maybe his receiver gets beat on the play and isn't blocking anymore or sees that he is in trouble and actually runs a route. Remember that there wasn't an ineligible man down field called so its within the realm of possibility that the guys know on that play don't go down field because RW might throw it if his initial read is off...

All I'm saying is that it wasn't some really stupid bone head play as you initially described it, IMO.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby RiverDog » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:34 pm

idhawkman wrote:He was just about to cross the LOS so it was only 2 or 3 yards at the most.


Thanks for reaffirming that, Idahawk. My distinct impression was that we would have been better off taking the loss of yardage and loss of down on the play vs. the 10 yard penalty from the LOS, but I had no way of confirming it.

Besides, if there would have been such a disadvantage to the Hawks losing the down, the Skins would have declined the penalty and taken the incompletion. There's not too many situations where it is in your best interest to intentionally commit a penalty.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby idhawkman » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:20 pm

BTW, if it wasn't called on Willson it was also on Britt but they declined the one on Britt and accepted the one on Willson if I remember correctly. Both were down field. I don't necessarily fault RW for the penalty as he can not be aware of where Britt was. He made a mistake and most times, the PI down field isn't called in situations like that.

It was one play. My concern is that it was the whole rest of the game played by RW. From the Houston game to the REdskins game he was night/day and that is a concern as we will never know which one will show up for game day. Consistency at a high level is what is required of a good team. Like Holmgren used to say, Big time players have to make big time plays in big moments (or something like that). Houston week, he did and he did to a degree on the first 2:00 drive in the 4th but it was the rest of the day that totally sucked.
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:38 pm

Wilson throws to a triple covered JG and we are lucky it wasn't a pick 6. WTF Russell???
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby jshawaii22 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:15 pm

if you're watching and just saw what I saw... WTF Russell is right. Too bad Doug didn't get the TD! That was Russell at his (concussed?) best!
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Re: WTF Russell?

Postby obiken » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:28 pm

No doubt!
jshawaii22 wrote:if you're watching and just saw what I saw... WTF Russell is right. Too bad Doug didn't get the TD! That was Russell at his (concussed?) best!
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