The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

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The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby Irish Greg 2.0 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:56 am

Losing Sherman sucks. River Dog and I went to the Cardinals game, and you would have thought we lost after it as we drowned our sorrows in beer at Westgate near the stadium. Not just Sherman, but the laundry list of players that got hurt.

However, in the grand scheme the loss of Sherman doesn't change our prospects for winning a ring. Why?

Our offensive offense. It isn't sustainable and was our death knell, even before the Sherman injury. We will have good games, but it is hard to take that kind of offense on the road and win in the playoffs.

I see a lot of Seahawks fans clamoring for the "second half of 2015" offense. But, the second half of 2015 doesn't translate. That was a rare spike in production that you can't just replicate because you "want to". We had a pretty good running game going that season, as Rawls kind of burst onto the scene and took over for Marshawn.

Every season is different. Results don't crossover, that is a false equivalence. Remember that tear we went on in 2012, scoring 58 (vs AZ), 50 (vs Buf), and 42 (vs SF) towards the end of the season?

2017 is a whole new animal. The biggest thing holding us back right now is lack of a running threat. It is a mountainous difference from the days when we were one of the most efficient offenses. It also does not look like it will be solved. After 9 games, it is fair to say this is a huge problem. The coaches can't seem to scheme it and teach it better and the backs we have just don't provide any glimmer of excitement, outside of McKissic.

The loss of Carson is much bigger than any of us probably realized. He has a perfect style for this system.

We also have a limited Tyler Lockett (no way he is 100%) as well. W e are missing him making big plays in the passing game like he did before he got hurt.

Our offense basically centers around Wilson making amazing jail break plays. There is no rhythm.

Coaching changes needed to be made after last season, and they didn't do it. Actually, the loss of Sherman Smith is an aspect many fans have glossed over. The current RB coach (Chad Morton) does not seem to be able to teach these guys how to read the minimal blocks they get. All I ever see is Rawls running straight into defenders, with no cuts or agility. Maybe he is mentally hung up on getting hurt?

By the way, I am not anti-Bevell nor anti-Cable. I think the problems are much deeper than making them the weekly whipping boys. But, at this point, changes for the sake of changes need to be made. This offense needs re-invigorating in the worst way.

Another huge problem is the penalties. They are out of control. Admittedly, many of those in the Cards game (especially in the first half) were just terrible calls. But still, we see the same mental mistakes week in and week out (I'm looking at you, Ifedi).

I would rather lose Sherman than Thomas. I think we will be ok, but can expect teams to take advantage of whomever we stick in Sherm's place. We have to get Earl back in there, but his impact will be lessened because now he has to cover both sides of the field.

We could not have a worse first test than Julio Jones and Matt Ryan.

The sad part is, what we need to offset it more than anything is a reliable offense centered on a clock-controlling, persistent running game.

Loss of Sherm + schizo offense + no running game + penalties?

They are going to have a tough go of it.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby Aseahawkfan » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:31 pm

That's how I see it too. Can't see us doing much in the NFC with so many great passing attacks and our defense strung out with Earl having to support the entire field now.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby Zorn76 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:21 pm

The Falcons have had their own issues lately - with a terrible OC in Sarkisian.
Why he was handed the keys to that offense in the first place, nobody knows.
Still the Falcons are hanging in their for a team that had even a worse SB defeat than we did.

As for the Seahawks...
I would draft RB high next yr.
The OL is a mess as usual, but having a great rookie back is something we need anyway.
I'm still puzzled as to how Rawls could not seize the opportunity to be #1.
Carson looked great, but he's far from guaranteed to come back the same player.

CB is obviously a priority, even before Sherman injury. These guys are getting old fast, and there's a lot of miles on that defensive backfield. Griffin looks like a keeper as a rookie (great example of a player who's shown more than just 'flashes' as a rookie, he's becoming a solid player). We may have seen Richard play his last game, however, even when he's healthy. Not sure what kind of trade value they'd get now after this, and maybe they just keep him, I dunno.

Our coaching offensively.
...

Defense still decent overall but they get burned a lot more than they used to.

But we got RW, which still counts for Tons. But, yea, the protection or lack thereof, is gonna catch up in a big way if we don't show some kind of improvement. Pocic and Britt say, along with Brown (?) but the rest wouldn't be missed. I'd like to see us ditch The George Fant Project as well.

We're looking at some big change shortly. There's also a chance that Pete may not want to stick around to finish his NFL coaching career here, too. 8 yrs is a decent run, and he did sign extension, but you never know with ol' Pete:)

Schneider...not much said about him, really, but we'll see if he has the itch to go elsewhere (back home to GB?).

We're ok for now, but we have to be proactive here soon. Not doing so is what sees franchises start to sink, seemingly overnight.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby idhawkman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:00 pm

Irish Greg 2.0 wrote:
Another huge problem is the penalties. They are out of control. Admittedly, many of those in the Cards game (especially in the first half) were just terrible calls. But still, we see the same mental mistakes week in and week out (I'm looking at you, Ifedi).


First, good post IG.

I can't believe you gave Bennett a pass when looking at people. He's been pulling his sh@t for 3 years now.


We could not have a worse first test than Julio Jones and Matt Ryan.


Well if history proves out, we won't be facing Freeman too. He'll probably still be in the Concussion protocol.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby idhawkman » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:02 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:That's how I see it too. Can't see us doing much in the NFC with so many great passing attacks and our defense strung out with Earl having to support the entire field now.


Maybe Richard will consider playing both ET and McDougald at safeties and move Kam down in for Wilhoite at LB. Could be an option and interesting to see what offenses would do.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby Oly » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:29 pm

Great post, IG. Count me as one of the ones who didn't realize how big losing Sherman Smith would be. Yeah, the OL is still poor in run blocking (although the left side will be pretty good when Joekel returns), but the RBs aren't getting much that isn't blocked for them.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby RiverDog » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:45 am

Nice post, IG. I agree with most of what you said.

The only thing I'll throw out will be our first test w/o Sherman: Julio Jones. He's been hurt for much of the season and although most of his numbers look good, he's only scored 1 TD in the first 9 games and was pretty much bottled up yesterday against the Cowboys as he had just 57 yards on 6 catches. I'm not even sure if Pete would have had a healthy Sherman shadowing him like he has in recent contests. I'm more worried about our pathetic offense than I am the defense, at least in this game.

The other good thing is that we have a mini bye coming up, and it couldn't have come at a better time, allowing our injuries to heal and coaches time to get prepared to deal with Sherm's absence. We also expect to sign Byron Maxwell, who hasn't done much since leaving two years ago but played well in our system, and with the mini bye, should have enough time to get re-acquainted enough to contribute.

I expect us to eek out a win vs. Atlanta as they quite simply are not the same team from a season ago, and we should be able to muster a win on the road vs. the Niners on Turkey Day weekend. But December looks rough, with a home game against what is arguably the two best teams in the NFC in the Eagles and Rams plus road games against a surprisingly good Jacksonville team and a Cowboys team that will be getting Zeke Elliott back, plus the ever improving Rams will be coming to town, not to mention the Cards, a team that has had good success against us in our house.

All in all, I'm pretty pessimistic, mostly because of our horrid offense. I think we're looking at a 9-7 finish. But the good news would be that if we crash and burn like that, then perhaps it would motivate Pete to make the changes that you eluded to and that have been needed for some time.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby idhawkman » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:45 am

Atlanta's Freeman will probably be in the concussion protocol next week also. That is going to put more pressure on them to pass.

We will need Brown on the LT against that kid who got 5 sacks yesterday on Dak. (BTW, that brings up a question: How come Brown is so good if he wasn't coached by Cable? We all know that colleges don't develop Olinemen anymore but in order to get a pro bowl LT, we have to go to other teams to get them? Huh?) As you can tell, I'm starting to turn on Cable...
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:06 am

Adrian Clayborn said he only has 1 move and it worked so he kept it up and it kept working.
I doubt he will get the same results the following week against even an average LT.

Our Offense has never been consistently great. A few years ago I called it a Popgun Offense and it has actually sunk to that level.
Our OL is still a problem and I believe the main issue with the Offense, but I give Ifedi a bit of a break, after all, he's really a rookie RT and having to relearn the fundamentals of a different position while under fire.
He has the temperament and athleticism to be a RT in our system, but he doesn't yet have the experience.
Pocic looks like he could be a good selection, but RG and a dominating RB are missing. Maybe Pocic can get into the weight room and move to RG next year if Joeckel is retained.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby Zorn76 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:16 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Adrian Clayborn said he only has 1 move and it worked so he kept it up and it kept working.
I doubt he will get the same results the following week against even an average LT.

Our Offense has never been consistently great. A few years ago I called it a Popgun Offense and it has actually sunk to that level.
Our OL is still a problem and I believe the main issue with the Offense, but I give Ifedi a bit of a break, after all, he's really a rookie RT and having to relearn the fundamentals of a different position while under fire.
He has the temperament and athleticism to be a RT in our system, but he doesn't yet have the experience.

Pocic looks like he could be a good selection, but RG and a dominating RB are missing. Maybe Pocic can get into the weight room and move to RG next year if Joeckel is retained.


I have some hope for Pocic, but Infedi is Complete waste of time. He has yet to demonstrate any measurable aptitude that hints at success moving forward. It's already time to pull the plug on him, along with Fant as well.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:55 pm

I disagree.
We will never be able to draft a T if you put a guy in for less than a year then pull the plug.
He has to learn the basics from footwork, hand position, play responsibilities, and leverages at Tackle that are different from Guard, not to mention playing in space, and he only had 1 year at Guard.
It takes a lot of practice and the new CBA doesn't provide for that so all teams have to go through the growing pains with rookie OL.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:14 pm

A new thread will probably go up, but I'll state it here. C.J. Prosise went on I.R. along with Sherman with B. Maxwell and Mike Davis joining the 53-man roster. I know they liked Davis in the preseason; curious what he'll do with starter PT.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby Zorn76 » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:58 pm

We're either drafting guys or taking on projects (Fant) that turn out to be a waste of time. Infedi in particular has played enough to know that whatever 'upside' exists is likely minimal at best. He has shown very little since he's been in there. The guy was challenged to begin with by only playing one year in college.

The NFL is heck of a place to try to train OL who have no clue to begin with. All rookies experience growing pains, but the good ones show signs or progress along the way. Neither Infedi or Fant qualify. I don't think either will either be on the team or starters next season.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:47 am

Zorn76 wrote:We're either drafting guys or taking on projects (Fant) that turn out to be a waste of time. Infedi in particular has played enough to know that whatever 'upside' exists is likely minimal at best. He has shown very little since he's been in there. The guy was challenged to begin with by only playing one year in college.

The NFL is heck of a place to try to train OL who have no clue to begin with. All rookies experience growing pains, but the good ones show signs or progress along the way. Neither Infedi or Fant qualify. I don't think either will either be on the team or starters next season.


It is a tough place to train OL, but that's the reality when you shuffle players out after their first contract and draft at the bottom of the round where the best talent is usually gone.
If you look at Ifedi's problems they are 2 fold: Mental mistakes and fundamentals. He's going to get beat even at his best upon occasion as the DE's and LB's are often better than most RT's.
Having said that he is a rookie RT. This is his first year at RT and the learning curve is probably similar to his rookie season at G so to give up on him after only 8 games is a waste of a draft pick and talent.
Someone above (or in another thread) mentioned it takes 2 or 3 years for an O Lineman to develop. It's going to be more in our system as Cable wants them to learn 2 positions and a complex blocking scheme.

I've said it before, but if you want to develop players along the OL and believe that they don't come out of College with the fundamentals already in place, they you have to simplify the blocking scheme and let a player develop at one position before moving them around or even thinking of cutting them. With an experienced OL, adding one rookie to a good line can be a much smoother transition than adding a rookie to a line that is also developing. It's why letting Jahri Evans go was a real stupid move. He could have had a calming influence on the younger guys as well as helped off field for a young OL and specifically a young RT who he would play beside.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby idhawkman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:24 am

We've been so weak at RT for so long it is ridiculous. We had Locklear there that was a bit of a turnstall and we had Giacomini who was in my opinion the best RT we've had there since before our first SB. That isn't saying much.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:43 am

Too true, but give Ifedi time to learn the position before we call for his replacement.
I think he could be a more athletic Breno given time.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby idhawkman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:08 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Too true, but give Ifedi time to learn the position before we call for his replacement.
I think he could be a more athletic Breno given time.


Yes, but what made Breno so good is he could draw the defensive Unsportsmanship penalty almost at will. Can Ifedi do that?
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby Largent80 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:55 pm

Breno certainly had his fair share of penalties.
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Re: The loss of Sherman, in the grand scheme

Postby idhawkman » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:38 pm

Largent80 wrote:Breno certainly had his fair share of penalties.

You really think so?

Year #Penalties Yards
2011 7 47
2012 12 120
2013 8 59

I would love to have a RT that had those types of penalty stats. NOTE: He also got multiple crucial penalties against opposing teams that helped us out a ton.

Also note, of all those penalties he had, only 4 of them came on Third down and 1 was on 4th down. (2 false starts, 2 holdings and 1 unecessary roughness calls) Both false starts came in the 2013 year.
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