S.F. Game Thread

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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:31 am

The stat being marginalized isn't "involved in", that would be stupid, as the guy the ball gets snapped to QB's are involved in virtually all any team's offense ... the stat being discussed in is "responsible for", as in Russ has either passed for or ran for over 80% (was 86% the first time I heard it) of this team's offense. Now I expect that almost all teams' QB are at well over 50 or 60%, but 86 has got to be pretty remarkable for anyone to have mentioned the stat in the first place.

It's not the biggest thing, but it ain't nothing.
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:48 pm

idhawkman wrote:Not nit picking on RW but you have to admit that he has created most of the holes he's had to climb out of by the way he starts games. You can go all the way back to the GB NFCCG to see this.


The offense starts slow. No doubt. Russ put us in a hole yesterday with the first throw for sure. But why does Bevell have to get cute first play in a windy rainstorm ? Whatever is wrong the only offense being created is Wilson’s legs and arm and the amazing stats bear that out. With a traditional pocket passer this is a 7-9 team
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby idhawkman » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:03 pm

idhawkman wrote:Not nit picking on RW but you have to admit that he has created most of the holes he's had to climb out of by the way he starts games. You can go all the way back to the GB NFCCG to see this.
Hawktawk wrote:
The offense starts slow. No doubt. Russ put us in a hole yesterday with the first throw for sure. But why does Bevell have to get cute first play in a windy rainstorm ? Whatever is wrong the only offense being created is Wilson’s legs and arm and the amazing stats bear that out. With a traditional pocket passer this is a 7-9 team

normally I'd agree with you on this but this was all on RW. Let's weigh the options that were available.

1. Run Lacy for play behind an Oline who hasn't had any reps together. (Brown DNP all week, Joke-L first game back, Pocic on RG, etc) Probably not the way to start the game.
2. Russell hits the underneath guy who is wide open. Not sure why he opted out of this option.
3. Russell not under throw the pass and hit Graham in stride for a huge gain. Not sure why RW under threw another receiver.
4. Underthrow the pass and let the defender catch up and INT it. Hmm... Kind of reminds me of the lazy way he waltzed onto the field and into the huddle.

just sayin'
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby RiverDog » Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:48 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:The stat being marginalized isn't "involved in", that would be stupid, as the guy the ball gets snapped to QB's are involved in virtually all any team's offense ... the stat being discussed in is "responsible for", as in Russ has either passed for or ran for over 80% (was 86% the first time I heard it) of this team's offense. Now I expect that almost all teams' QB are at well over 50 or 60%, but 86 has got to be pretty remarkable for anyone to have mentioned the stat in the first place.

It's not the biggest thing, but it ain't nothing.


My point wasn't to discount Russell's contributions. To the contrary, IMO overall he's played very well. My point was that the only thing we can draw from this rather obscure stat is how ridiculously ineffective our rushing game has been. No team, no matter how good their QB is, should not have to rely on the QB for that much of their offense. It's not a good way to run a railroad.
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby idhawkman » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:29 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:The stat being marginalized isn't "involved in", that would be stupid, as the guy the ball gets snapped to QB's are involved in virtually all any team's offense ... the stat being discussed in is "responsible for", as in Russ has either passed for or ran for over 80% (was 86% the first time I heard it) of this team's offense. Now I expect that almost all teams' QB are at well over 50 or 60%, but 86 has got to be pretty remarkable for anyone to have mentioned the stat in the first place.

It's not the biggest thing, but it ain't nothing.
RiverDog wrote:
My point wasn't to discount Russell's contributions. To the contrary, IMO overall he's played very well. My point was that the only thing we can draw from this rather obscure stat is how ridiculously ineffective our rushing game has been. No team, no matter how good their QB is, should not have to rely on the QB for that much of their offense. It's not a good way to run a railroad.


What's even worse is that RW only plays the second half of games. Let that sink in a bit.

Case in point, Sunday's game, RWs passer rating was 32.8 at halftime. His 4th quarter season passer rating is 134,9.

Here's even more bad news, worse news from Pete Carroll regarding RWs slow starts and fast endings.

“Well, I wish it knew it so I could make it happen in the first half,” Carroll said when asked why Wilson was so good late in games. “But we have talked about it some. In particular he’s a great finishing quarterback. His numbers in the fourth quarter are tremendous. His efficiency and his touchdowns, those are really special. I think he’s such a tremendously instinctive football player, the more game he gets the better he feels, the more he understands how to take advantage of the opportunities, and he just continues to play better. I think he and (offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell) work really well together as they grow in the game. They communicate all game long, and they zero in and really seem to really hit it right as we finish. There’s no question that he’s a great finisher. His wins in the fourth quarter show that, but also just the numbers are there. I really think he gets a better feel for the game, he really gets a sense for how things are going to work and the defense he’s playing against and the style and all of that, and takes full advantage of it.”


So the bad news is Carroll doesn't know how to get RW off to a faster start. Hard to fix something you have no clue about. The worse news is that Bevell is here to stay as long as RW is here. UGH!!!!
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:54 am

The criticism of Russ early in games is fair. But again what’s Bevells role?

As for Russ strolling out in the field that a really nitpicking criticism. If you watch the film it’s clear Russ needs to conserve his energy for the track meet in the backfield .
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby Largent80 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:44 am

Bevell's role is huge.

If we are supposed to "establish the run" then why are we throwing the ball every down and into a swirling wind while facing the team that is 31st in the league out of 32 teams at stopping the run?

It's simply idiotic, and to play like that vs. good teams with potent offenses is a recipe to play from behind and hope RW can miraculously once again, save the day.
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby Sox-n-hawks » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:46 am

It could be that during the first quarter they're trying to run a ball behind a zone blocking scheme that the O-line doesn't execute, which leads to holes being clogged by O-linemen instead of running lanes. THEN the running game can't get going, d-coordinators see this and have RW on his heels. Once he starts to scramble a bit, most teams assign a spy WHICH then frees up a coverage position and leads to Man coverage on at least on receiver/back. Just now Bevell is beginning to notice the value of multiple tight end sets during these situations, as single coverage or mismatches on Jimmy Graham is always a good thing. Once the defense catches on, P-Rich or ADB end up WIIIIIIDE open.

The solution? Add a big hard hitting fullback or figure out how to get the o-line to create some running lanes. Or both.
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby RiverDog » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:41 am

Largent80 wrote:Bevell's role is huge.

If we are supposed to "establish the run" then why are we throwing the ball every down and into a swirling wind while facing the team that is 31st in the league out of 32 teams at stopping the run?

It's simply idiotic, and to play like that vs. good teams with potent offenses is a recipe to play from behind and hope RW can miraculously once again, save the day.


Agreed about Bevell. As a rule, our first 6-8 plays are scripted, so if we're not scoring in the first quarter, there has to be something wrong with the script.
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby burrrton » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:48 am

RiverDog wrote:Agreed about Bevell. As a rule, our first 6-8 plays are scripted, so if we're not scoring in the first quarter, there has to be something wrong with the script.


Yup. When those 6-8 plays waste at least 3 drives and/or most of the 1st half game in game out, time to change strategy, maybe.

Of course, if wasting 3 drives makes 2nd-half dominance inevitable (highly questionable, I know, but that's how the argument goes), maybe only tweaking is needed.
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Re: S.F. Game Thread

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:33 am

Somebody said it was the first 15 plays that were scripted. 6-8 isn't that bad, but it has the potential of being 2 series of 3 and outs which could put us behind by 7 - 14 points depending on how the Defense plays.
I counted them last game and there were 6 minutes left in the 1st Quarter when they finally ran their 15th play.
No matter how many are scripted, you would think they would have practiced them to the point of almost perfection instead of missed blocks, bad runs, and poor pass production.
In theory it should be an advantage for the OL since everyone would know what they are going to do and it may be an opportunity to go up tempo or even hurry up very early to get into a rhythm on Offense.

On another note, it was good to see they stacked Graham and McEvoy when in the Red Zone on one play. That's at least trying to take advantage of a mismatch as both are over 6'6" and at least one of the CBs is less than 6' tall.
They should do that more often and maybe add Vannett with a triple stack as he's also 6'6" tall.
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