No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

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No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby trents » Mon Dec 11, 2017 7:47 pm

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2174 ... le-jaguars

Not sure if "no bans" means no penalties of any kind but if the league doesn't have the guts to impose sanctions then Seahawk management should. They need to send a message to players.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby Zorn76 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:48 pm

I'm surprised - thought for sure we'd get nailed on something.
As for Pete and discipline...well, he talked to Jefferson.
I dunno, these kinds of things are pretty rare when it gets to that kind of level,
but it was a bad look regardless, to put it mildly.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Dec 12, 2017 3:18 am

Zorn76 wrote:I'm surprised - thought for sure we'd get nailed on something.
As for Pete and discipline...well, he talked to Jefferson.
I dunno, these kinds of things are pretty rare when it gets to that kind of level,
but it was a bad look regardless, to put it mildly.


I must digress. The NFL has been pretty strict on conduct and if they see nothing to suspend or fine anyone for maybe we are a bit self loathing. It’s not a penalty to fire out at the snap. The scuffle was both ways.

I think they looked at the totality of the game and how it ended and the fan misconduct and said move along.

Bring on the rams!
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:41 am

Zorn76 wrote:I'm surprised - thought for sure we'd get nailed on something.
As for Pete and discipline...well, he talked to Jefferson.
I dunno, these kinds of things are pretty rare when it gets to that kind of level,
but it was a bad look regardless, to put it mildly.


I'm surprised, too. I'm wondering if the time of year, in Week 14, had anything to do with it, if they would have chosen the same course of action had it been Week 1 or 2. Handing out multiple suspensions would have created a big distraction at a time when they want people getting excited about the playoffs. It was an ugly scene, and they might just want to sweep this event under the carpet and pretend that it didn't happen. They might have also been intimidated by the prospect of suspending multiple players from the same position. If you suspend Bennett, you have to suspend Jefferson and Richardson as well.

As a Seahawk fan, I'm relieved as it would have killed our chances at beating the Rams this Sunday. Even with all those guys in the lineup, I regard the game as a toss up. Nevertheless, what Bennett and the others did was despicable.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby Sox-n-hawks » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:44 am

I can't say I'm surprised. Let me guess, there will be another off season rule change because of something Seattle did?
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby idhawkman » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:47 am

1. The league looked at the Seahawks (one of the teams fanning the kneel movement) and thought they shouldn't suspend one of the biggest kneelers in the league.
2. They knew the officiating was so biased and understood why the 'Hawks were as raw as they were.
3. They don't want to lose the revenue of the Hawk fans for this game coming up this weekend.

There's three good reasons why there was no fine or suspensions.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:30 am

I’m not surprised at all that the Bennett and Richardson weren’t suspended. What Bennett did wasn’t illegal. It is perfectly within the rules, again unlikely to be successful, but still against the rules. The Jags response did as much, if not more, to instigate the shoving match after the play as anything the Hawks did. Richardson’s ‘punch’ was about as weak as a punch can be in the NFL. That type of thing happens at least 10-20 times an NFL season without the offender ever being suspended. I thought maybe Jefferson had a chance to be suspended, just because it looked so bad and he was close to making it up into the stands.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby Largent80 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:47 am

They saw the biased officiating and decided after seeing what everyone saw all game long that they had better just shut up and move on.

Of course the Hawks have to take the loss as a result. NFL sucks.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 12, 2017 12:02 pm

mykc14 wrote:I’m not surprised at all that the Bennett and Richardson weren’t suspended. What Bennett did wasn’t illegal. It is perfectly within the rules, again unlikely to be successful, but still against the rules. The Jags response did as much, if not more, to instigate the shoving match after the play as anything the Hawks did. Richardson’s ‘punch’ was about as weak as a punch can be in the NFL. That type of thing happens at least 10-20 times an NFL season without the offender ever being suspended. I thought maybe Jefferson had a chance to be suspended, just because it looked so bad and he was close to making it up into the stands.


Once again, it's not the action of the initial play that was the problem, it's what occurred after the whistle.

We've seen suspensions for similar transgressions, like they did this season when they suspended Michael Crabtree and Aquib Talib. Among other things, here's some language in the letter the league sent to Crabtree explaining the 2 game suspension:

"Your actions triggered a melee and endangered various sideline and league personnel, including one of our game officials who was injured trying to maintain control of the situation," Runyan said in his letter to Crabtree. "Finally, during the ensuing altercation, you grabbed and twisted that same opponent's facemask and threw a punch at him. Such actions have no place in this game, engender ill will between teams, and lead to further confrontations."

The brawl that was started by Bennett fit all but a couple of the actions noted in that letter, including triggering a melee, endangering sideline personnel trying to control the situation, throwing punches, and engender ill will between the teams. Certainly the Crabtree-Talib incident was worse, but it also got both players 2 games. If those two got a 2 game suspension, they could have easily justified a 1 game suspension for at least one and as many as three of our guys.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:20 pm

RiverDog wrote:
The brawl that was started by Bennett fit all but a couple of the actions noted in that letter, including triggering a melee, endangering sideline personnel trying to control the situation, throwing punches, and engender ill will between the teams. Certainly the Crabtree-Talib incident was worse, but it also got both players 2 games. If those two got a 2 game suspension, they could have easily justified a 1 game suspension for at least one and as many as three of our guys.


I don't agree with this at all. What Bennett did during the play is what caused the situation after the play. The center took exception to what Bennett did DURING the play, so after the play he stood over him and continued to stand over him as Bennett was trying to get up. Bennett took exception to the Center standing over him, while he was trying to get up, so he grabbed his leg and tried to tackle him. While all of that was going on there was already extra pushing and shoving between the Jags OL and DL... Tempers were high and it stemmed from the way the Hawks went hard DURING the play.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:26 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Once again, it's not the action of the initial play that was the problem, it's what occurred after the whistle.

We've seen suspensions for similar transgressions, like they did this season when they suspended Michael Crabtree and Aquib Talib. Among other things, here's some language in the letter the league sent to Crabtree explaining the 2 game suspension:

"Your actions triggered a melee and endangered various sideline and league personnel, including one of our game officials who was injured trying to maintain control of the situation," Runyan said in his letter to Crabtree. "Finally, during the ensuing altercation, you grabbed and twisted that same opponent's facemask and threw a punch at him. Such actions have no place in this game, engender ill will between teams, and lead to further confrontations."

The brawl that was started by Bennett fit all but a couple of the actions noted in that letter, including triggering a melee, endangering sideline personnel trying to control the situation, throwing punches, and engender ill will between the teams. Certainly the Crabtree-Talib incident was worse, but it also got both players 2 games. If those two got a 2 game suspension, they could have easily justified a 1 game suspension for at least one and as many as three of our guys.


All but a couple of things? I don't really see anything similar.

Did it enraged various sideline league personnel: No
Trigger a melee: No- If what happened at the end of Bennett's play is a melee then there are melees in just about every NFL game.
Injuring a game official: No
Grabbed and twisted an opponents facemask: No
Threw a punch at him: No

What in the letter actually occurred in the game on Friday after Bennett's play?
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 12, 2017 5:08 pm

mykc14 wrote:All but a couple of things? I don't really see anything similar.

What in the letter actually occurred in the game on Friday after Bennett's play?



Did it enraged various sideline league personnel: No

First off, the term used in the letter was endangered, not enraged. Secondly, there most definitely WAS a very significant risk to sideline personnel as numerous objects were being thrown from the stands.

Trigger a melee: No- If what happened at the end of Bennett's play is a melee then there are melees in just about every NFL game.

I beg to differ. In a fight where there were three players from just one team that everyone agrees could have been suspended, with fans throwing objects from the stands, I'd say that qualifies as a melee.

Injuring a game official: No

Agreed, but they were unnecessarily thrust into a very dangerous situation.

Grabbed and twisted an opponents facemask: No

Agreed.

Threw a punch at him: No

There most definitely was at least one punch thrown by Richardson.

I'm not saying that the two situations were equal in severity. I was just using it as an example. All I am saying is that there was enough activity going on to where the NFL would have been on very solid ground to issue at least one and as many as three suspensions.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:33 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Did it enraged various sideline league personnel: No

First off, the term used in the letter was endangered, not enraged. Secondly, there most definitely WAS a very significant risk to sideline personnel as numerous objects were being thrown from the stands.

Trigger a melee: No- If what happened at the end of Bennett's play is a melee then there are melees in just about every NFL game.

I beg to differ. In a fight where there were three players from just one team that everyone agrees could have been suspended, with fans throwing objects from the stands, I'd say that qualifies as a melee.

Injuring a game official: No

Agreed, but they were unnecessarily thrust into a very dangerous situation.

Grabbed and twisted an opponents facemask: No

Agreed.

Threw a punch at him: No

There most definitely was at least one punch thrown by Richardson.

I'm not saying that the two situations were equal in severity. I was just using it as an example. All I am saying is that there was enough activity going on to where the NFL would have been on very solid ground to issue at least one and as many as three suspensions.


Riv,

The letter to Crabtree was all about HIS actions, as in HE threw a punch, he twisted a face mask, etc. Comparing the two incidents doesn’t really work. This was about what one of our guys did or didn’t do. The NFL didn’t look at the Crabtree incident and say we’re suspending these guys because one person started a melee, another guy threw a punch, another guy twisted a face mask, and another guy endangered sideline personnel. Crabtree did ALL of those things.Plus the incidents on Sunday were over 2 separate plays, the second of which Bennett wasn’t even involved in so anything having to do with Jefferson incident has nothing to do with Bennett. So looking at it from the perspective of what Bennett did or didn’t do:

Again did BENNETT’s actions endanger (sorry about typing enraged that was a typo) various sideline personnel? The answer is NO. The bottles being thrown and that stuff happened the NEXT play. A play that Bennett wasn’t even involved in, so how could his actions be the cause of endangering any sideline league personnel?

Again did his events trigger a melee? NO. Like I said before the events that happen on the ONE play that Bennett was involved in happen in the NFL 15-20 times a year... the fact that Richardson threw a punch does not make it a melee, and the incident with Jefferson was on a completely different play.

Again threw a punch: NO. Bennett did NOT throw a punch. Crabtree wasn’t suspended because other people threw punches he was suspended because of all the things he did individually, including throwing a punch.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 12, 2017 7:25 pm

mykc14 wrote:The letter to Crabtree was all about HIS actions, as in HE threw a punch, he twisted a face mask, etc. Comparing the two incidents doesn’t really work. This was about what one of our guys did or didn’t do. The NFL didn’t look at the Crabtree incident and say we’re suspending these guys because one person started a melee, another guy threw a punch, another guy twisted a face mask, and another guy endangered sideline personnel. Crabtree did ALL of those things.Plus the incidents on Sunday were over 2 separate plays, the second of which Bennett wasn’t even involved in so anything having to do with Jefferson incident has nothing to do with Bennett. So looking at it from the perspective of what Bennett did or didn’t do:

Again did BENNETT’s actions endanger (sorry about typing enraged that was a typo) various sideline personnel? The answer is NO. The bottles being thrown and that stuff happened the NEXT play. A play that Bennett wasn’t even involved in, so how could his actions be the cause of endangering any sideline league personnel?

Again did his events trigger a melee? NO. Like I said before the events that happen on the ONE play that Bennett was involved in happen in the NFL 15-20 times a year... the fact that Richardson threw a punch does not make it a melee, and the incident with Jefferson was on a completely different play.

Again threw a punch: NO. Bennett did NOT throw a punch. Crabtree wasn’t suspended because other people threw punches he was suspended because of all the things he did individually, including throwing a punch.


It was Bennett's actions that started everything. He was the root cause without which nothing happens. Root cause was also mentioned in the letter about the Crabtree incident.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the definition of a melee. I thought it was.

Punches were thrown, and objects were tossed from numerous fans in the stands. It was a serious incident. We've seen people seriously injured from incidents like that...although admittedly, the league doesn't permit a lot of objects to be brought into the stadium that could be made into dangerous projectiles like they used to.

Let's not get hung up on the finer details of the Crabtree incident vs this one. I used it simply because it was recent and had in it what I thought were some commonalities. My point is that the league had plenty of justification to issue one or more suspensions.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :lol:
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 8:02 pm

RiverDog wrote:
It was Bennett's actions that started everything. He was the root cause without which nothing happens. Root cause was also mentioned in the letter about the Crabtree incident.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the definition of a melee. I thought it was.

Punches were thrown, and objects were tossed from numerous fans in the stands. It was a serious incident. We've seen people seriously injured from incidents like that...although admittedly, the league doesn't permit a lot of objects to be brought into the stadium that could be made into dangerous projectiles like they used to.

Let's not get hung up on the finer details of the Crabtree incident vs this one. I used it simply because it was recent and had in it what I thought were some commonalities. My point is that the league had plenty of justification to issue one or more suspensions.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it! :lol:


Of anything you posted the one point I felt the least strongly about was the melee. In other words I might have been persuaded to call that a melee. As to the rest I think it is a big reach to pin Richardson’s punch of a completely different player (not the center involved in the play with Bennett) and Jefferson’s actions the following play onto Bennett, which is why I thought there was basically no chance Bennett or Richardson would be suspended. I felt like the whole incident was overblown nationally. That is not to say I wasn’t myself frustrated by the incident. I didn’t like it and used it as a teaching moment for my kids, but I didn’t see it on par with other incidents that have been making headlines this season.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby Zorn76 » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:16 pm

We have a good shot at beating the Rams, but we'd need HFA to have a legit shot at reaching SB.
I don't we are road warriors in post season if it came to it.
Our D is getting Old real fast. It happens. Sooner Pete starts getting his next secondary figured out, the better.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:27 pm

Age happens fast, but some of the young guys show promise. It takes a while to be able to play at an All Pro/Pro Bowl level.
Neither Kam nor Sherm were approaching that level until their 2nd or 3rd years, and the retooling has begun. Don't expect the same results, though as we have seen with trying to find another dominant LT. Those types of players are hard to find but they can be pretty good as a group.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby obiken » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:41 am

Man I am shocked, what a nut less league and commissioner. Sorry Bennett should have been suspended.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:08 am

obiken wrote:Man I am shocked, what a nut less league and commissioner. Sorry Bennett should have been suspended.


I can't believe I'm hearing all this from the old guys here ... fer chrissakes in the 70's nothing that happened in this game would even merit a mention. Conrad Dobler tried to inflict injury every offensive snap and he was a 3X Pro bowler. We fans have become as pussified as we complain about the league becoming.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:13 am

obiken wrote: Sorry Bennett should have been suspended.


WHY??? This is the mentality that I do not understand. Which part of the play do you think was suspension worthy?

During the play: He went hard and swiped at the ball. After that motion he laid there while the center laid on top of him. The action of the play was aggressive when the other team was kneeling out the clock. People may not like it. It had almost no chance of being successful. It is not something that most teams do (although Bennett has tried it multiple times, never even getting a penalty for it). Despite all of those things it is not even illegal and well within the rules of the game. Not in anyway suspendable.

After the play: The center stood over him and Bennett took exception to it and grabbed his leg and tried to pull him down. This certainly was a penalty and worthy of a penalty, no doubt about it, but not suspension worthy as that sort of thing happens in many games each year in the NFL and has never led to a suspension.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:18 am

Here's a video of the play. It shows exactly what I am talking about. Watch it again and let me know which part of the play Bennett should be suspended for. The closest he comes would be trying to tackle the center as he is standing over him, but that isn't even that bad.

This article is a perfect example about what is so frustrating about this incident to me. The title says it all "Michael Bennett sparked scuffle after dangerous cheap shot during Jaguars kneel-down." That has been the national narrative and it is ridiculous. He was trying to make a play on the snap (again, not something that has any real chance at success IMO), but in no way was he trying to hurt the center. He was trying to make a play.

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/12/michael ... enalty-nfl
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:48 am

It looks like he was actually going a little sideways which creates the impression he rolled into the Center.
The Center barely moves and pretty much falls over Bennett.
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Re: No bans from yesterday's out of control behavior

Postby mykc14 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:22 am

NorthHawk wrote:It looks like he was actually going a little sideways which creates the impression he rolled into the Center.
The Center barely moves and pretty much falls over Bennett.


The other interesting part, to me, is the fact that the national narrative is that Bennett somehow started this pushing/shoving match. When you watch the video Richardson and Reed and the Jags OL get into their shoving match on their own, based on how hard Reed and Richardson went at the snap. It doesn't look like any of the other Jags are even paying attention to Bennett and their C. If the Jags were so upset at Bennett why did nobody go defend the center?
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