Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edition

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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Zorn76 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:34 pm

Nobody, not even Angry Doug, can make a good case to keep Darrell, lol. Guy's a Joke, needs to go.

I'm glad that Kam and Cliff decided to retire.
They owe the Seahawks and us fans Nothing, and gave us Everything.

Congrats to both on having Fantastic careers with Class and Integrity.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby mykc14 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:08 pm

Largent80 wrote:Clayton said this morning that he expects Bevell and Cable to be retained.

If that's the case, kiss my Pete Carroll fandom goodbye.


Most people know I love RW. My question is if his issues can be blamed on the OL why doesn't Bevell get some slack in trying to call an offense with that putrid OL? I don't love Bevell and wouldn't be upset if he were shown the door, but to say he's a terrible OC while the OL is as bad as it has been seems a little questionable.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby chris98251 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:27 pm

Largent80 wrote:He's on the radio now and it's obvious he won't make any changes.
He's blaming it on injuries.

He's more worried about the families of coaches than putting a competitive team on the field.

He's all happy happy joy joy.

For me that's a deal breaker. It's like , beat me again honey, it hurts but I love you.


That's fine if we looked like dirt on defense, but we didn't it was the offense that had no running game and could not make 3rd downs conversions regularly and I mean like 40 percent as regular, it has been that way trending on 4 years now. Losing a development LT and a Rookie RB that was considered a long shot to make the team as a 7th rounder, ( I really liked him regardless of draft position before the draft) cannot be considered a huge loss in the big picture or a rash of injuries.

This is Pete excuse machine talk, or he is to close to the situation to evaluate it objectively, this is where wearing two hats can be a problem.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:24 pm

Pete is weak and his kumbaya excuses are worn out. Maybe other 12's will buy what he's selling but not this one.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:08 pm

Dump Bevell, send Brown with him, tell Walsh to pack his bags on his way out, let Graham walk unless he willing to stay for half his salary ( half a player = half a salary). Trade Bennett if you can.... fire Richard.... get coaches aggressive, and capable of adjusting to the team's strengths and weaknesses.

That's where I would start.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:56 pm

I'd like them to replace both Cable and Bevell, but I'm pretty much resigned to them not moving either unless they go on their own volition.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:43 am

HumanCockroach wrote:Dump Bevell, send Brown with him, tell Walsh to pack his bags on his way out, let Graham walk unless he willing to stay for half his salary ( half a player = half a salary). Trade Bennett if you can.... fire Richard.... get coaches aggressive, and capable of adjusting to the team's strengths and weaknesses.

That's where I would start.


So you would keep Cable?
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:54 pm

I get the dump Bevell thing but Brown??

Evidently you missed the magical wonder of all the rest of the majestic Hawk O-Line. Brown was by far the best of all of them, which ain't saying much.

Also, I think Richard is a good DC and besides Pete is your real DC here.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:35 pm

Largent80 wrote:I get the dump Bevell thing but Brown??

Evidently you missed the magical wonder of all the rest of the majestic Hawk O-Line. Brown was by far the best of all of them, which ain't saying much.

Also, I think Richard is a good DC and besides Pete is your real DC here.


Agreed. I saw what Roach was talking about, and he's right, a number of us were a little disillusioned. But he unquestionably is the most talented OL on the roster and we can't let him get away. The OL doesn't work right until all 5 have had a chance to work together for a number of games so I don't think we can pass judgment on the 1/2 season he's had to play in our system, particularly having to block for an unpredictable little jitterbug like Russell. Once the OL gets settled down, I'm sure Brown will, too.

With regard to Richard, anything pertaining to the defense I will yield to Pete. It's only on offense that I question his judgement.
Last edited by RiverDog on Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby chris98251 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:40 pm

Brown came in basically having sat out half the year and still played better they the rest of the line, Cable is going to do his best to break him but at least he was able to stop pass rushers 75 percent of the time from that side.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:06 pm

WHY IN THE HELL do you go almost an entire year on a run first team WITHOUT a bruising FB?

Especially with defenders trying to figure out if they should actually take the handoff because the o-line gets out of their way. :roll:
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby burrrton » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:26 pm

Especially with defenders trying to figure out if they should actually take the handoff


In case anyone's not clear on this, this isn't an exaggeration.

They literally had to slow down to decide whether to trash Wilson or just take the gddmn handoff. They were in the backfield *that* quickly.

We didn't have a bad O-line- we had a *non-existent* O-line.

[edit]

In reflection, I have to admit, my optimistic side thinks this: even without *any* offensive line, and literally no running game, and half our defense on IR, we were still a middling kicker away from the playoffs, and probably the NFC West.

We're in for a shakeup, but with Wilson and a passable defense, we're going to be in the mix for a while.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby chris98251 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:41 pm

You say that and it all looks good till you turn it on.

Image
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby obiken » Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:43 am

Irish Greg 2.0 wrote:One point for those talking about cutting Cliff, Kam, Bennett...

...you might want to look at the cap implications.

Those deals Bennett and Kam just signed look like huge mistakes right now, in hindsight.


Irish I think KC and Avril will retire. What about trades do you just transfer the cap hit to the new team or not? Always wondered about that.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:16 am

burrrton wrote:In reflection, I have to admit, my optimistic side thinks this: even without *any* offensive line, and literally no running game, and half our defense on IR, we were still a middling kicker away from the playoffs, and probably the NFC West.

We're in for a shakeup, but with Wilson and a passable defense, we're going to be in the mix for a while.


I'm a little surprised at you, burrton. Are you expecting Avril and Chancellor to return next season and play to their maximum capability? How about Sherman? Or Bennett? What we saw of our defense at the end of this season is the more likely lineup for 2018.

Even if you were to project all of our wounded warriors into next year's starting lineup, the Rams are without a doubt the class of the division. They were were a dropped pass away from beating us in September and completely beetch slapped us in December on our own field. They are clearly the better team, and unless something dramatic is done, the disparity is only going to increase.

We've been in a slow but steady decline since the end of SB49. I'm not advocating that we blow the team up and start over, but we're not going to change the outcome of the past 3 years if we don't at least shake things up. I want to be on the cusp of winning the Super Bowl, not the cusp of making the playoffs.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby mykc14 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:28 am

obiken wrote:
Those deals Bennett and Kam just signed look like huge mistakes right now, in hindsight.


Irish I think KC and Avril will retire. What about trades do you just transfer the cap hit to the new team or not? Always wondered about that.[/quote]

The cap hit for Kam next year is 9 mil with a dead cap of 7.... for Avril it is a cap hit of 8 and dead cap of 5. One of those can be designed post June 1st and that spreads the hit over 2 years. As far as trades go the reamaing yearly salary/bonuses/etc go to the new team but the guaranteed money or dead cap figure stays with the original team. For example getting Graham was good because he signed a 4 year $40 mil contract that and only played 1 year of that contract with a cap hit of 4 mil, so when we signed him he had 3 years and 36 mil left, which is 12 mil/yr, but 9 mil of that was his signing bonus, which the Saints has to pay in Dead money. So the Saints really paid13 mil of his salary and only got him for 1 year while we had him for 3 years and only had to pay him $27 mil. That’s one reason our FO likes to trade for players because they are a little cheaper and they don’t count against compensatory picks.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby burrrton » Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:39 am

Are you expecting Avril and Chancellor to return next season and play to their maximum capability?


Absolutely not- I think both are going to retire.

How about Sherman? Or Bennett?


Yes, and maybe.

What I think is that with Earl, Sherm, Griffin, Shead, and Maxwell as our secondary, and Bobby and KJ at LB, we just need a capable replacement for Kam and a decent D-line, both of which are in Pete's wheelhouse, to be a passable defense at worst.

I don't think the end of this year is indicative of what we'll see next year- we'll see, I guess.

[edit]

And I'll say again: even with all the issues we had, if we had a kicker that could hit a 40-yard field goal reliably, we'd be NFCW champs. Not that we'd have made any noise in the playoffs, but still. There are reasons for cautious optimism if you want to look for them. :)
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:38 am

With all the money on the table, I don't think Kam retires, but I do think they reach some type of injury settlement.
I'm not sure what the difference is in terms of Cap hits, though.
In any case, I don't see him playing in Seattle again, and that's too bad.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:08 pm

Holy s*** this offensive line is the worst ever. Pete seems to be okay with Cable.

Alright. What should we expect going forward?

What I'm seeing is a lack of accountbility.
So suck it Hawk fans.

We won't make any changes because we believe in the system.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby obiken » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:29 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Dump Bevell, send Brown with him, tell Walsh to pack his bags on his way out, let Graham walk unless he willing to stay for half his salary ( half a player = half a salary). Trade Bennett if you can.... fire Richard.... get coaches aggressive, and capable of adjusting to the team's strengths and weaknesses.

That's where I would start.


Human, you and I have gone more than a few rounds, but agree with you 100%, right on the money! I think Norton Jr. would be a great replacement for Richard.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby obiken » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:32 pm

The cap hit for Kam next year is 9 mil with a dead cap of 7.... for Avril it is a cap hit of 8 and dead cap of 5. One of those can be designed post June 1st and that spreads the hit over 2 years. As far as trades go the reamaing yearly salary/bonuses/etc go to the new team but the guaranteed money or dead cap figure stays with the original team. For example getting Graham was good because he signed a 4 year $40 mil contract that and only played 1 year of that contract with a cap hit of 4 mil, so when we signed him he had 3 years and 36 mil left, which is 12 mil/yr, but 9 mil of that was his signing bonus, which the Saints has to pay in Dead money. So the Saints really paid13 mil of his salary and only got him for 1 year while we had him for 3 years and only had to pay him $27 mil. That’s one reason our FO likes to trade for players because they are a little cheaper and they don’t count against compensatory picks.


Thanks NYC, how complex, they need to change that!
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby idhawkman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:09 pm

Wow, Odhiambo gets trashed as the worst Olineman in the league and yet he has a much better day going against a healthy Robert Quinn than Brown had against him at the end of the season. Yet, everyone says Brown is the best olineman we have? Like Arsenio said so many years ago, "kind of makes you say, hmmmmm...."
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby politicalfootball » Fri Jan 05, 2018 8:46 pm

I Think It's a question of when we update our RB and drafting high as possible to get him. I hope we can have Alabama RB if not then Georgia's.

And obviously Derral Befell has got to go.

We have got to hang on to Bennett and Sherman and Duane Brown also.

We need to pay both Richardson's the fair amount due them. I like our secondary we have to keep Thomas too.

Frank Clark and Michael Bennett are losing a step we must have a study DE FA or the draft.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby chris98251 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:32 pm

We will not draft a round 1 RB, we do not draft skill position players high, bust potential and big contract and you can't move them from DE to DT or Tackle to Guard. The other reason is high contracts and the second contract being higher as well. Why we trade down so much and get the 5th year option with a cheaper contract or out of the first round completely. Thomas was the last guy we went after that was a higher 1st round pick, it will take that kind of talent at a skill position to warrant Pete and John going after one.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:06 am

I think we trade back at least once, maybe twice but not far out of the 1st round if at all.
With their first pick I can see them taking the best RB they have on their board. Pete said
In his latest interview that he believes a top RB will solve the run problems and is a top priority.
Lynch was that back, and now they want to find another with similar abilities. This draft is deep at RB, but the
very best could go before the 2nd round so it's a gamble to move down too much.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:50 am

NorthHawk wrote:I think we trade back at least once, maybe twice but not far out of the 1st round if at all.
With their first pick I can see them taking the best RB they have on their board. Pete said
In his latest interview that he believes a top RB will solve the run problems and is a top priority.
Lynch was that back, and now they want to find another with similar abilities. This draft is deep at RB, but the
very best could go before the 2nd round so it's a gamble to move down too much.


It's supposed to be deep with OL and TE's, too. If we part ways with Graham, I'd look for us to pick up a TE early in the draft.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:56 am

Largent80 wrote:Holy s*** this offensive line is the worst ever. Pete seems to be okay with Cable.

Alright. What should we expect going forward?

What I'm seeing is a lack of accountbility.
So suck it Hawk fans.

We won't make any changes because we believe in the system.


I think you need to give it another couple of weeks, L80. There's a number of teams that are cleaning house, which means there's some potentially very good coaches that will be looking for a job. It could be that Pete's waiting to see if there'll be any assistants that he feels would be an upgrade over those currently on his staff.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby idhawkman » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 am

Largent80 wrote:Holy s*** this offensive line is the worst ever. Pete seems to be okay with Cable.

Alright. What should we expect going forward?

What I'm seeing is a lack of accountbility.
So suck it Hawk fans.

We won't make any changes because we believe in the system.
RiverDog wrote:
I think you need to give it another couple of weeks, L80. There's a number of teams that are cleaning house, which means there's some potentially very good coaches that will be looking for a job. It could be that Pete's waiting to see if there'll be any assistants that he feels would be an upgrade over those currently on his staff.


Pete's post season presser (37 minutes long) has him pretty happy with the oline we have. Take a listen around the 24 minute mark.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:21 am

It's supposed to be deep with OL and TE's, too. If we part ways with Graham, I'd look for us to pick up a TE early in the draft.


I haven't read or heard of it being a good TE year, but I've read others saying it's a bad year with them expecting the first ones to go in late R2 or R3.
Outside of a couple of Tackles, the strength of this draft along the OL is said to be the interior which works in our favor.

But I think RB will be the first selection wherever that may be. Unfortunately, I think the main coaches will stay. Maybe some subordinates will move, but Cable and Bevell will stay.

Carroll's quotes regarding Running Backs:

“The critical guys I think are the runners. The runners need to come back to life to us. And that’s Chris Carson and C.J. (Prosise) and Mike (Davis) coming back and whoever else can be part of that thing. J.D. McKissic was a really good positive aspect of our team this year and we need to make that position more competitive. That’s going to be one that we’re focused on because of the durability issues that we’ve faced the last two seasons.”
Later on he said:
“Who can we add to make it more competitive?”
and emphasized it as being
“a big focal point"

Edit:
So it sounds like he thinks the run game (and thereby the Offense as a whole) can be fixed by adding a good RB.
Ugh. Another wasted year ahead, I suspect.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:26 pm

There are only 2 first round graded O-Linemen. It is NOT deep for o-line talent according to draftniks that I read.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby idhawkman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:32 pm

Largent80 wrote:There are only 2 first round graded O-Linemen. It is NOT deep for o-line talent according to draftniks that I read.


"IF" this is true, Cable will get his first round pick then and it won't be either of those guys... :o
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby HumanCockroach » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:48 pm

Largent80 wrote:I get the dump Bevell thing but Brown??

Evidently you missed the magical wonder of all the rest of the majestic Hawk O-Line. Brown was by far the best of all of them, which ain't saying much.

Also, I think Richard is a good DC and besides Pete is your real DC here.


And you apparently missed the magically turnstile that was Brown, so guess we are even.

Edit: initial statement should have read fire Bevell and Cable... so no I wouldn't have kept Cable. Was 100% sure Bevell was gone, only 90% sure Cable was going with him, and only about 70% sure Richard wouldn't be part of the staff when all was said and done.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:32 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:And you apparently missed the magically turnstile that was Brown, so guess we are even.

Edit: initial statement should have read fire Bevell and Cable... so no I wouldn't have kept Cable. Was 100% sure Bevell was gone, only 90% sure Cable was going with him, and only about 70% sure Richard wouldn't be part of the staff when all was said and done.


This again. Give them some time to get a new O-line coach. Then he'll assess who we keep and where they play. He'll do it a whole lot better than some fan watching TV.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:21 pm

HumanButtorch wrote:I get the dump Bevell thing but Brown??

Evidently you missed the magical wonder of all the rest of the majestic Hawk O-Line. Brown was by far the best of all of them, which ain't saying much.

Also, I think Richard is a good DC and besides Pete is your real DC here.


And you apparently missed the magically turnstile that was Brown, so guess we are even.

Edit: initial statement should have read fire Bevell and Cable... so no I wouldn't have kept Cable. Was 100% sure Bevell was gone, only 90% sure Cable was going with him, and only about 70% sure Richard wouldn't be part of the staff when all was said and done.[/quote]

OK Pete, thanks for your input.
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