Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edition

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Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edition

Postby Largent80 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:06 pm

This could be epic but I will start off with coaches. While not thinking the same way as Pete Carroll, I want to see a new offensive coordinator next year (actually 4 years ago). That last part explains a lot.

Regardless of injuries free agency or any other things it is clearly time to jettison Darrell Bevell.

I have a ton of others but I will leave some for y'all.
Last edited by Largent80 on Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby politicalfootball » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:59 pm

The biggest change I want to see is in their draft method. Draft in the 1st rd draft for need and stick with it all the way through the draft.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby idhawkman » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:55 pm

I just want them to change their motto of only being able to win it in the 4th quarter.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Sox-n-hawks » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:17 pm

The biggest change I want to see is eliminating the Zone Blocking scheme that makes the O-line ineffective.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby curmudgeon » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:13 pm

Bevfool jettisoned.....
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Largent80 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:09 am

I posted this before the last "game" in which the Seahawks appear to need changes in almost every aspect.

However, I will stick to my original thoughts which are to re-tool the offense with a new philosophy (OC and O-Line coach). Every team in the league knows what the Seahawks will do, sometimes even before the play is even called, or so it seems.

This combination is not fooling anyone anymore. We are not a run first team, which is the way the team was built. Zone blocking has gone the way of leather helmets.

We have several players that should be gone along with their bloated contracts.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:04 am

1- Offensive line
2- better health
3- Offensive line
4- Running Back
5- Did I mention the Offensive line yet?
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby RiverDog » Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:20 am

politicalfootball wrote:The biggest change I want to see is in their draft method. Draft in the 1st rd draft for need and stick with it all the way through the draft.


I disagree. Obviouly need is a big factor in the equation, but you don't want to pass over a stud Julio Jones/Dez Bryant type of WR a Vonn Miller type of pass rusner just becasue you have a greater need at another position.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Largent80 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:02 am

Draft is a hit/miss. We lucked out in one draft and several players stuck from late rounds. That hasn't happened since then.

They need to re-tool the O-Line by switching from Neanderthal to current. Because it is ridiculously obvious that the former is NOT even close to working. Having 300 pound men flopping on the deck like fish out of water accomplishes what?

Dead fish?...I would say they have accomplished that for sure.

We have our franchise QB, and he is entering his prime. You must get an identity TODAY, not rest on what happened in the past because take a look at this entire season. The only games that have actually been fun to watch were Houston and Philly. Why is that? It's not because of injuries, yes that is PART of it, but this goes way beyond any singular problem, and that includes coaching.

Maybe the coaches are good and have had good results, but if you look at a hill and are at the bottom of it and have pushed your way to the top and are now at the top will you be coasting down the other side and apply the brakes, do you stop at the top and stay there or do you turn around and go back? This staff has crested the hill and has been going down with a little brake applied and that is the problem. Failure to adapt, failure to get the right players for the system you are running and trying to make it work.

Adapt or see last Sunday.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:18 am

They have to decide what they want their identity to be then acquire the talent and coach towards it. I think they are currently lost.
This pretending they are a tough run first team then pass most of the time doesn't work when going against aggressive Defenses who don't respect the run.
Personally I would like to see a balanced Offense that can be a tough run group but is also adequate in pass protection.
We don't need to be the best pass blocking OL in the NFL with Russell, we just need to be competent and he can get the rest done.
A good run game feeds into that as the DL has to respect they will get gashed if they just pass rush.
It all starts with deciding what they want to be and then coaching the OL to that goal.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Uppercut » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:32 am

Focus on the D! If an opponent in the NFL is kept to 14 pts or less you should win most of those games

Try to win each quarter not just the first. If the D holds teams to 14 is it not too big of an order to get one TD per quarter for 28 pts

If you score 28 and the opp scores 14 or less my math says you win.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby RiverDog » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:36 am

We all agree that the OL needs to be addressed no matter what else happens, but I'm still holding my cards until we're mathematically eliminated as far as any wholesale changes on the roster or changes in our entire philosophy goes.

I want to see how we look against the Cowboys this Sunday. If we play well, go in and win decisively, then maybe the Rams game was just an anomaly, that all we need to do is shore up a few positions, like the OL. Don't forget, we're only a couple of weeks displaced from having played one of our better games of the season vs. the Eagles.

But if we do the same thing as we did last Sunday, roll over like a dead fish, all facets playing poorly, and take ourselves out of the playoff hunt, then we can start talking about monumental changes.

I'll have to admit, as a lifelong charter Seahawk fan, these past two weeks have been some of the most embarrassing times I've endured since Mora, with that disgraceful fight following the Jax game and this unmerciful butt whipping laid on us by the Rams. There are opposition fans all over the country that are having a good belly laugh at our expense. If we end up tanking another game like we did against the Rams.....
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:45 pm

I wasn't embarrassed at all in the Jags game, I was with the Rams game, though.

We'll see what happens on Sunday.
As teams decline, their performances can bounce around a bit, but I still think all of the talent sidelined by injuries is a huge factor.
Maybe with all the injuries on Defense it's a blessing in disguise because is exposes how bad the Offense really is and maybe will cause more emphasis on Offensive production.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:50 pm

1. "Always Compete" applied to the coaches rather than just the players. Cable has lost the competition and needs to go. Bevell I would like to see gone too.

2. Re-hire Ken Norton Jr. as LB coach.

3. Cut Kam and Avril. Use the cap space to acquire new players ore retain quality. Kam and Avril had a great run, but they're health is done. Time for the cold reality of the game to move them on.

4. Fire the scouts that choose O-line as well if they are assessed as also failing to find good candidates.

5. Focus on finding a high quality RB as the number one push in the draft or free agency, preferably the draft.

6. Re-sign Sheldon Richardson.

7. Assess Bennett's effectiveness. See if he can still go.

8. Focus on a new partner for Earl.

9. Re-sign Jimmy Graham.

10. Draft and/or sign a high quality O-line starting with a new coach and change of philosophy.
Last edited by Aseahawkfan on Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Zorn76 » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:03 pm

It's been a long year, and it's only appropriate that we could possible finish 10-6 and miss the playoffs.
That said, I think missing them (since we'd be on the road anyway as WC) is precisely the kind of jolt the team needs to Really start focusing on filling the roster with new guys next spring.

It's really the biggest offseason since 2010 when we hired Pete.

I'm curious, though not holding my breath, on what (if anything) Carroll does for his coaching staff.
After that, I do like -and have mentioned before like others - the idea of taking a RB perhaps higher than usual in 2018. The OL is a long ways from being figured out anyway, and we need new blood back there badly. Davis and Carson will stay, Lacy and Rawls are probably gone. Still can't figure wtf happen to TR. Makes no sense.

After that, wow, take your pick. Defense needs new recruits all over the place. We'll need to find replacements at TE (probably) and could always use another playmaker at WR.

Hard to believe, but we're in a bit of a rebuild. The official one comes when HC or QB are changed, but this is still significant. At this point, though, I'm wondering if Pete has already started to lose the locker room a little. The politics of '17 clearly affected their focus, imo, and it's a shame. I'd like to see Bennett gone, and I think Kam and Cliff should just play it safe and retire. Very interested in what we do next spring.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby trents » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:58 pm

I agree with most of what has been said by others but I want to highlight one comment someone made that I think got largely missed but is very insightful and that is with regard to getting a top RB. The offensive line and the running back situation must both be addressed because these two elements depend so much on each other. The back needs holes to run in but the O linemen need a back who has consistently picks the right hole and gets through it quickly. Really good backs are good at finding the creases and getting through them before they close up.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby RiverDog » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:16 am

It needs to start with getting rid of Tom Cable. Otherwise, we're not going to find or develop the right linemen anyway. Changing OC's and leaving the OL coach isn't going to change much, especially this OL coach that has Pete's ear on a lot of things. Cable is the assistant head coach as well as the OL coach.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby curmudgeon » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:15 am

The return of the fixer. Scot McGloughan......

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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby obiken » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:32 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:1. "Always Compete" applied to the coaches rather than just the players. Cable has lost the competition and needs to go. Bevell I would like to see gone too.

2. Re-hire Ken Norton Jr. as LB coach.

3. Cut Kam and Avril. Use the cap space to acquire better players.

4. Fire the scouts that choose O-line as well if they are assessed as also failing to find good candidates.

5. Focus on finding a high quality RB as the number one push in the draft or free agency, preferably the draft.

6. Re-sign Sheldon Richardson.

7. Assess Bennett's effectiveness. See if he can still go.

8. Focus on a new partner for Earl.

9. Re-sign Jimmy Graham.

10. Draft and/or sign a high quality O-line starting with a new coach and change of philosophy.


Resign Ken Norton Jr. as DC! Do not resign Graham way too much money! Bennett is gone, too much a mental case. Richardson takes plays off and has been a partial bust. Cut Avril, Sherm, and KC time to move on. I saw in PDX what an Achilles tear can do with Wesley Mathews. Sorry his lateral movement is not going to be the same. Ask Dommy Wilkins. Take out the Sp, OC, DC, and Cable. Get us a Julio Jones type WR not these ham and eggers we have. And new OLINEMAN of course. The torch was not passed to the Rams last Sunday, it was ripped away. Colin Cowherd.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:30 am

trents wrote:I agree with most of what has been said by others but I want to highlight one comment someone made that I think got largely missed but is very insightful and that is with regard to getting a top RB. The offensive line and the running back situation must both be addressed because these two elements depend so much on each other. The back needs holes to run in but the O linemen need a back who has consistently picks the right hole and gets through it quickly. Really good backs are good at finding the creases and getting through them before they close up.


Cable isn't just responsible for the OL, he's responsible for the entire run game, so if that's an issue - and it is, he needs to go.
We haven't had a good run game since Lynch was breaking 120 odd tackles per year. That requires a dominant RB, and we don't have on on the roster.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Largent80 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:09 am

Regarding our own F.A.

Richardson hasn't made the impact I thought he would. He's making decent plays and then disappears. Will cost a ton, probably over 10 mil.

Unless Graham is willing to take a huge pay cut (and he should because of age) he should go as well.

The other Richardson is a head scratcher. Has his best year in a contract year.

What happened to the dependable Jon Ryan?...Was that game Sunday a case of failing like every member of the team, the wind, age?...WTF?

Bye Walsh.

Joeckel?...puke, get outta here.

Adouchey?...see the door...hit it.

Lacy?....Really dude, you should give back your entire 4 million.

These should all be gone IMO.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ ... -seahawks/
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby RiverDog » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:14 am

NorthHawk wrote:Cable isn't just responsible for the OL, he's responsible for the entire run game, so if that's an issue - and it is, he needs to go.
We haven't had a good run game since Lynch was breaking 120 odd tackles per year. That requires a dominant RB, and we don't have on on the roster.


Plus a lot of that run offense relied on a 24-25 year old Russell Wilson carrying on read options. Russell's 29 now, and I don't think there's a person around that won't agree that we need to wean ourselves off relying on him to carry such a big load.

It's imperative that Cable go, perhaps Bevell as well. If Pete doesn't have the balls to make some changes, it might increase my fall rate off his bandwagon.

I'd only favor bringing Graham back if we can work out a very favorable financial deal.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Irish Greg 2.0 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:12 pm

One point for those talking about cutting Cliff, Kam, Bennett...

...you might want to look at the cap implications.

Those deals Bennett and Kam just signed look like huge mistakes right now, in hindsight.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:49 pm

Irish Greg 2.0 wrote:One point for those talking about cutting Cliff, Kam, Bennett...

...you might want to look at the cap implications.

Those deals Bennett and Kam just signed look like huge mistakes right now, in hindsight.


I'm not sure about getting rid of Bennett. I think he could come back with some rest.

Avril has a neck injury and Kam has been wearing down for years. We need to take the cap hit if needed and move on. If it was a mistake, then admit it and move on clearing it as fast as possible. It's time for Pete to turn off Pete the Friendly Uncle and become Pete the Competitor and make some hard decisions, like when he first got here.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Largent80 » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:54 pm

I heard Avril on the radio yesterday and it sounded like he is preparing for broadcasting. He had surgery and needs 6 months before they can figure out if he's football worthy.

Kam needs a few months to figure it out. However, I say cut bait. Resign McDougald, and hope for draft home runs.

McDowell was a terrible pick if we're looking at terrible things. It just seems like our drafts lately are bigger than a crap shoot.

The offensive line drafts have been abysmal. The offensive line aquisitions have been terrible outside of Brown.

There is a lot of work to do and it's all brought on by being stubborn.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Vegaseahawk » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:59 pm

We need a freakin badass running back. Whether we get him through the draft, or
fa matters not. If PC, JS can find the next stud RB, we'll be ok, PERIOD!
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Largent80 » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:47 pm

Either get a good RB to fit "run first", or change the offensive plan to try and make it more balanced.

Considering the amount of effort to stay the course with the offensive plan, I really don't see them making any big changes coaching wise.

For me, that's a fan killer and they can suck it. If they actually make changes that are needed I'll stay interested.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby idhawkman » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:40 pm

Irish Greg 2.0 wrote:One point for those talking about cutting Cliff, Kam, Bennett...

...you might want to look at the cap implications.

Those deals Bennett and Kam just signed look like huge mistakes right now, in hindsight.


Hey IG, I know you are better at Cap calculations than most all of us so I'll ask you this:

Does it make a difference if "getting rid of Kam and Cliff" as an injury settlement with regards to the cap? I know the full unpaid "signing bonus" is accelerated if we cut them and may be xferred to the new team if we trade them but what happens if they are "injury retired"?
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Re: Changes you would like to see--Season Ending Edition

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:13 am

Not much has changed for me since the original post.

The team seems to be ok with the slow starts, and playing catch up. As a fan, I'm sick of watching it, and I have never had a more miserable time watching a football season. Especially because of the talent on this team.

Yeah 9-7 we would kill for in 1992 but this isn't 1992, it's the Golden Age of Seahawk football, and vs. the Rams at home this year it pancaked into it's zenith and unless serious new approaches are made to how the Hawks prepare for games and how they run the team.

Pete is loyal, all of us know it, but this simply isn't a matter of loyalty anymore. This is a matter of trying to re-establish the teams identity which is in it's current state, akin to a masquerade ball. Not even the players know who's behind their own masks. Bevell should have been replaced right after #49, but has been allowed to stay and what have we to show for it?.....You saw it this year, incredible, frustrating games that NEVER, EVER had a good feel about them. Only one game did this team actually play the way the should have all year.

The problems have been hashed about for over 3 years now, but yet, is allowed to remain.

I'm sorry Pete, but it's time for even YOU to bite the bullet and CAN Bevell T O D A Y.

And right behind him should go Cable for all the reasons debated in every forum and around every water cooler. ZBS is BS for the players we have and is a complete waste of time to keep implementing it with the constant changes going on either via injury or flat out SUCKING. It's hard to blame all of this on Cable but he's had many years just like Bevell.

Time to clean this house.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--Season Ending Edition

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:21 am

This is what you get when you stay loyal.....

https://www.facebook.com/MEMES.of.the.N ... 580107589/
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:46 pm

Along with Bevell and Cable being fired I also want to move on from the other Schneider...Brian.

Schneider has been Seattle’s special teams coordinator since 2010, and the team experienced instant improvement from being an average group to one of the league’s best. They were 2nd in DVOA in 2010, dipped to 16th in 2011, then rose to 3rd in 2012, stayed elite at 5th in 2013, and it’s mostly been negative since the Super Bowl-winning season. They fell to 19th in 2014, returned to 3rd in 2015 (largely thanks to Tyler Lockett’s outstanding rookie season), stooped to 15th in 2016, and are currently 22nd. Seattle’s punting DVOA has declined for four straight years, and Jon Ryan’s numerous shanks, combined with the substandard punt return coverage, tell the story. Blair Walsh was a mess, missing almost 30% of his field goal attempts, including the game-winner vs. Arizona. Even when the Seahawks had a great special teams play courtesy of Tyler Lockett’s touchdown, it was almost immediately nullified by a big return by Arizona’s D.J. Foster. Special teams was a strength of Seattle’s, now it’s a crippling liability.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby chris98251 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:00 pm

In the beginning we had a lot of starters on special teams, not so much now, our blocking and yes there is that damn word again Line Blocking and up backs have been marginal, watching Ginger kick he has someone close almost every snap, not sure if design or hurries but yes his kicks have been short or shanked a bit more this year. Sometimes it's design to make up for lack of our gunners to get there and not have a return, but placement as well and not as many downed kicks as previous years where our gunners have been down there as the ball lands. The lack of starters is our age factor, keeping them off the field for rest and health reasons to limit the amount of plays per season. It's the only explanation. This means we have less talented guys playing then before. Remember Kam, Thomas and Sherman were all on Special teams the first few years as well as Baldwin and Kearse etc.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--Season Ending Edition

Postby RiverDog » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:22 pm

Largent80 wrote:Not much has changed for me since the original post.

The team seems to be ok with the slow starts, and playing catch up. As a fan, I'm sick of watching it, and I have never had a more miserable time watching a football season. Especially because of the talent on this team.

Yeah 9-7 we would kill for in 1992 but this isn't 1992, it's the Golden Age of Seahawk football, and vs. the Rams at home this year it pancaked into it's zenith and unless serious new approaches are made to how the Hawks prepare for games and how they run the team.

Pete is loyal, all of us know it, but this simply isn't a matter of loyalty anymore. This is a matter of trying to re-establish the teams identity which is in it's current state, akin to a masquerade ball. Not even the players know who's behind their own masks. Bevell should have been replaced right after #49, but has been allowed to stay and what have we to show for it?.....You saw it this year, incredible, frustrating games that NEVER, EVER had a good feel about them. Only one game did this team actually play the way the should have all year.

The problems have been hashed about for over 3 years now, but yet, is allowed to remain.

I'm sorry Pete, but it's time for even YOU to bite the bullet and CAN Bevell T O D A Y.

And right behind him should go Cable for all the reasons debated in every forum and around every water cooler. ZBS is BS for the players we have and is a complete waste of time to keep implementing it with the constant changes going on either via injury or flat out SUCKING. It's hard to blame all of this on Cable but he's had many years just like Bevell.

Time to clean this house.


Good post, L80. That's exactly how I feel.
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Re: Changes you would like to see

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:53 pm

Offensive line with Cable gone and a RB over and over and over again.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:25 am

Clayton said this morning that he expects Bevell and Cable to be retained.

If that's the case, kiss my Pete Carroll fandom goodbye.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby Largent80 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:34 am

He's on the radio now and it's obvious he won't make any changes.
He's blaming it on injuries.

He's more worried about the families of coaches than putting a competitive team on the field.

He's all happy happy joy joy.

For me that's a deal breaker. It's like , beat me again honey, it hurts but I love you.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby mykc14 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:15 am

Largent80 wrote:He's on the radio now and it's obvious he won't make any changes.
He's blaming it on injuries.

He's more worried about the families of coaches than putting a competitive team on the field.

He's all happy happy joy joy.

For me that's a deal breaker. It's like , beat me again honey, it hurts but I love you.


PC is always happy, happy, joy, joy. To me that does not mean there aren't going to be coaching changes. The injuries did play a part, but most agree that there have been so many offensive issues for so long that a change really needs to be made. For me it won't be a deal breaker, but missing the playoffs next year with the same offensive problems would put him firmly on the hot seat.
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby RiverDog » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:22 am

mykc14 wrote:PC is always happy, happy, joy, joy. To me that does not mean there aren't going to be coaching changes. The injuries did play a part, but most agree that there have been so many offensive issues for so long that a change really needs to be made. For me it won't be a deal breaker, but missing the playoffs next year with the same offensive problems would put him firmly on the hot seat.


Pete hasn't made very many coaching changes other than replace those that have left for better jobs. The only coordinator he's fired is Jeremy Bates, and that was after his first year. Does he have the balls to get rid of under performing coaches, or is he going to rationalize their performance by blaming injuries?
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby mykc14 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:30 am

RiverDog wrote:
Pete hasn't made very many coaching changes other than replace those that have left for better jobs. The only coordinator he's fired is Jeremy Bates, and that was after his first year. Does he have the balls to get rid of under performing coaches, or is he going to rationalize their performance by blaming injuries?


I don't know if it is about the size of his balls or not. I think he is so entrenched in his coaching philosophy and both Bevel and Cable are exactly what he is looking for in those coaching positions. Clearly he did not like the way Bates ran the O. He has shown that he has no real issue letting non-coaches go who don't totally buy into his system. I think he also knows what it is like to be fired and maybe shows a little too much sentiment for guys whose position he was in early in his career. I never liked the idea of firing a guy just because something needs to be changed, but until that guy has had a chance to fix problems/overcome injuries/teach his guys his system. With that being said our OL has been bad for so long that something needs to change and it seems like our OL coach has been here long enough to fix those issues. Combine that with our putrid rushing offense and it seems like the guy who is in charge of the OL and the guy in charge of the running game should be let go. In this case it is the same guy: Cable...
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Re: Changes you would like to see--* EDIT* Season Ending Edi

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:09 pm

It looks like Kam and Cliff won't be back as he said both would have a hard time playing football again.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ing-again/
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