Next year we will get players back and good draft.

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Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby politicalfootball » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:56 pm

There is still a chance for the playoffs but I'm setting my sight on next year and the draft. Even if we go 9 - 7 or 8 - 8 that just means a better draft.

I have not given up. Love the Hawks for like.

Comments ?
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby RiverDog » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:02 pm

politicalfootball wrote:There is still a chance for the playoffs but I'm setting my sight on next year and the draft. Even if we go 9 - 7 or 8 - 8 that just means a better draft.

I have not given up. Love the Hawks for like.

Comments ?


Let's wait until we're mathematically eliminated.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby politicalfootball » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:11 pm

Yeah River I hear you. If we beat Dallas with 5 pro bowlers out and make the playoffs anything can happen
So yeah I'm waiting to see what will be.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby curmudgeon » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:27 pm

Unfortunately, the spectre of 49 haunts this team and will continue until all remaining remnants of players and staff are gone.....
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby HumanCockroach » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:30 pm

I don't quit on my team. They might Finnish 8-8 or 10-6... either way, I'll watch every agonizing second, even if it would be more pleasant to shove shards of glass in my eyes.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby mykc14 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:32 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:I don't quit on my team. They might Finnish 8-8 or 10-6... either way, I'll watch every agonizing second, even if it would be more pleasant to shove shards of glass in my eyes.


Me too... games like today are tough to sit through, luckily we haven’t had too many of these over the past 6 years
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby mykc14 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:34 pm

politicalfootball wrote:There is still a chance for the playoffs but I'm setting my sight on next year and the draft. Even if we go 9 - 7 or 8 - 8 that just means a better draft.

I have not given up. Love the Hawks for like.

Comments ?


We gave up a lot of draft capital this season, unfortunately. Can’t blame PC and JS for going for it though...
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby politicalfootball » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:15 pm

I wish they'd change the way they draft and have a 1st rd pick they keep.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby obiken » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:24 pm

politicalfootball wrote:I wish they'd change the way they draft and have a 1st rd pick they keep.


You and me both! I still cannot believe we passed on Fletcher Cox!
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby politicalfootball » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:33 pm

Obiken at least they were drafting for need. Of course I have no idea why we don't spend high picks on the OL
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby Aseahawkfan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:35 pm

What picks do we have? We traded a bunch away to go all in on this year.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby politicalfootball » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:52 pm

We'll get them back JS is a genius at that aspect of the draft especially 1st and 2nd rounds.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby Largent80 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:03 pm

This team needs more than players, it needs a whole new staff for the offense.

It's so painfully obvious. Take a look at the Rams very ordinary to bad offense last year. This year they went out and signed Whitworth at LT got a new coach, and D-Coordinator and look at what they did to the Hawks today.

We have the horses, but we have other parts of horses for coaches.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby mykc14 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 6:30 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:What picks do we have? We traded a bunch away to go all in on this year.


We have our original 1st, our original 4th, 3 5th (Raiders, Texans, And PATs, and 2 7ths (hard to say whose they are because we traded and got a few from some teams, but its probably the pats or Vikings). Pretty thin. If we lose Richardson to FA we will probably get a 3rd.

Unless there is just a stud when we pick in round 1 we are going to trade that away.
Last edited by mykc14 on Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:19 am

politicalfootball wrote:I wish they'd change the way they draft and have a 1st rd pick they keep.


The draft works in tiers.
So the basic theory is there is a group of players at the top - for discussion sake say 10 that are elite, then the next 7 are just a step below then another tier of 15 all ranked about the same.
The idea is to trade down within the tier and still get one of the players you have ranked on the same level as your original pick. You then move down 5 or 7 spots, pick up another selection later in the draft, and still get a player of the same quality as you would get with your original draft slot.

But I get your angst waiting for the first picks in the draft. It's frustrating watching players I think are pretty good being passed over for an extra 4th or 5th round pick.
This year it's different, they need to recover a 2nd and 3rd so it will probably be a necessity to trade down.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby RiverDog » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:35 am

mykc14 wrote:We gave up a lot of draft capital this season, unfortunately. Can’t blame PC and JS for going for it though...


Me, either. At the time, we were within a player or two of being a SB contender and our defense wasn't getting any younger. We needed to go for it while the window was still open.

We'll see what happens next week in Dallas. My feelings are that we'll lose that one, too, and be eliminated from the playoffs for the first time since Pete's first year. I haven't given up all hope yet, but if yesterday wasn't a cold slap in the face, I don't know what it would take for us to come to the realization that we're not a SB quality team.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:37 am

curmudgeon wrote:Unfortunately, the spectre of 49 haunts this team and will continue until all remaining remnants of players and staff are gone.....

I completely agree with this with the exception of RWz
It is a testimony to the talent and mental toughness of the core group to have clawed into the divisional the last 2 years after that debacle but that and injuries and poor roster decisions have caught them.

Even if this team can stop a furious fresh legged Zeke Elliot or outscore Dallas they still have to face an angry Arizona team with nothing at all to lose. Even if they do that changes are needed short of a Lombardi or they are headed back to same old Seahawks . With the Rams and how garrappo is playing we mite be the 3rd best team in the division right now :oops:
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby Irish Greg 2.0 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:49 am

Regarding draft picks we gave up... this front office has a different view on it than most fans. We look at it like, "we gave up picks." They look at it like, "we were not going to find a Duane Brown caliber or Sheldon Richardson caliber player in the draft at those spots."

In essence, we drafted Duane Brown in the 3rd round in the 2018 draft and we drafted Sheldon Richardson in the 2nd round of the 2018 draft. With the Lane trade snafu, we then had to sweeten the deal and cough up our 2019 2nd round pick as well. But, hard to argue with the value.

The problem is, this franchise does not have a good track record with trades. Lynch is the obvious exception...but, rarely do trades pan out the way we hope they will. Harvin, Graham, even going back to Deion Branch - all examples. They felt that Brown would make the O line better, and he has - but not to the level they expected. They felt Richardson would create an unblockable front 4, but it hasn't worked that way. The huge problem with evaluating Sheldon right now is he was envisioned to fit WITH Avril, Bennett, and Clark around him. He lost Avril right away, Bennett is 75% with his foot, and Clark is inconsistent. They are not seeing the full concept of how Richardson was supposed to fit in.

He will command $10 million plus on the market. It says a lot to me that they have not signed him to a deal. If he gets to free agency, he is gone IMO.

PS We actually have 3 7th rounders...we got one from Philly for Matt Tobin, one from the Jets for Jermaine Kearse, and one from the Vikings for Tramaine Brock (even though he was only on the team for like 40 minutes).

I think we will see a lot of changes. They will not re-sign Graham, Paul Richardson, Lacy, Rawls, Aboushi, Garvin, Walsh, or Joeckel. Cliff and Kam will retire, I think - neck and nerve issues are not something you mess around with. I think they will try and trade Bennett, who is more interested in social causes and his brand than he is in football now - but the dead cap with that move is substantial. The Bennett and Kam extensions look pretty bad at this point. I don't begrudge their loyalty, however.

I think they move on from Jon Ryan, the longest tenured Seahawk. He is expensive and can be replaced, and has really fallen off this season. He is also 37.

I think they would like to keep McDougald, but he may get a lot more elsewhere.

They need to build the offense around Russell Wilson and the defense around Bobby Wagner. I would also not be shocked to see Sherman moved, but that is less likely with him coming off his injury and being owed a lot of money. Regardless, 2018 is probably his last season in Seattle.

On the plus side, we have Chris Carson coming back and Carson + Davis isn't a bad running back group, plus a young buck in the draft.

It is going to be an interesting off-season at VMAC.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:13 pm

I'm not sure Carson is the long term answer at RB that others do.
I just didn't see enough of that special something that separates the average RB from the very good/great ones. And make no mistake, this Offense requires a great RB to function properly.
Who knows how the personnel moves will work out, but I hope we keep Richardson and can sign Brown to an extension. With an expected increase in the Cap of $10 million and no Graham contract we can see with these 2
$20 million in Cap room. I'm not sure how the retirement of both Avril and Chancellor if they happen will affect the Cap, but others will also be gone like Lane so I'm hopeful it can be worked out. If not, finding another Nazair Jones would be nice
and in his 2nd season he might be even better. We can't count on Malik McDowell ever being able to play, but if he does come back and is anywhere as good as his potential, that would help replace Avril's production.

In the draft, I look to see the following:
Trade down at least once, but probably twice for a couple of 2nds and a 3rd or maybe a 2nd and 3rd + others later.
Go after a RB early.
DT/DE/LB are all in the mix.
Maybe even a Guard with an early pick if someone unexpectedly falls.
CB later rounds.

But a lot depends on how the draft falls as to who is available and when.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:46 pm

I looked on Spotrac and they have a utility where you can manage the Cap by releasing players.
If we cut Avril, Chancellor, and Lane we would have approximately $32 million in Cap space.
It also includes not re-signing Graham, the Richardsons, or any of the others who's contracts expire this season.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby idhawkman » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:40 pm

I think we also have to look at KJ moving on, too. Carson may be the answer at RB but just a season or two ago we all thought that Rawls was that guy. So I'm not sure about him. I would like to keep PRich as I think he has a lot to offer but I'm not sure we have any true #1 on the squad a this time (and that include DB). No one seems to be able to get separation consistently.

Brown I would be careful about signing him to any long term contract as he's getting a little long in the tooth and his better days may be behind him. Quinn as old as he is, really showed how slow Brown is on the speed rush.

There's just too many questions right now and very few answers.

BWags I think still has a lot in him but the pounding he takes every year and his age is a bit concerning now. I know he's "young" but these guys are not holding up under that much punishment. He's more like a player that has been in the league 2-3 years longer than he has just because of the additional pounding that he's taken because our offense is so inept. I think most of you would agree with me on this, too. Since Bwags came from the Mountain West conference, I've been watching a young DPOY in the mountain west for Boise State (Vander Esch) who reminds me a lot of Bwags. I'd like to see us pick him up as a backup to Bobby and maybe a starter replacing Wilhoite or KJ. he's got the size and the speed to fit into what Pete likes along with the football IQ and the explosiveness through the tackle.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:49 pm

I like KJ. He's one of the surest tacklers we have and he can play all 3 LB spots at a very high level. It would be tough to replace him if they let him go.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby idhawkman » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:59 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I like KJ. He's one of the surest tacklers we have and he can play all 3 LB spots at a very high level. It would be tough to replace him if they let him go.


Yes, but he's lost a step and is not able to cover the TEs and Rbs as he once did.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby Largent80 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:05 pm

Let's just go back to the Expansion Draft if ya wanna really blow it up.

The Seattle Seahawks take.....Steve Neihaus. LOL.....there ya go.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby RiverDog » Mon Dec 18, 2017 6:10 pm

Largent80 wrote:Let's just go back to the Expansion Draft if ya wanna really blow it up.

The Seattle Seahawks take.....Steve Neihaus. LOL.....there ya go.


Not to be picky, but Neihaus wasn't taken in the expansion draft, he was our first pick in the college draft. I want to say that either Mike Curtis or Norm Evans was our first expansion pick.

But to your point, I don't think we blow the team up unless we fire Pete, and that's not something that I advocate nor do I think will it happen, at least not now.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:25 am

politicalfootball wrote:Obiken at least they were drafting for need. Of course I have no idea why we don't spend high picks on the OL


We do. That narrative needs to die a slow, painful, excruciating death. Along with they don't dedicate resources to the offensive line.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:33 am

Irish Greg 2.0 wrote:Regarding draft picks we gave up... this front office has a different view on it than most fans. We look at it like, "we gave up picks." They look at it like, "we were not going to find a Duane Brown caliber or Sheldon Richardson caliber player in the draft at those spots."

In essence, we drafted Duane Brown in the 3rd round in the 2018 draft and we drafted Sheldon Richardson in the 2nd round of the 2018 draft. With the Lane trade snafu, we then had to sweeten the deal and cough up our 2019 2nd round pick as well. But, hard to argue with the value.

The problem is, this franchise does not have a good track record with trades. Lynch is the obvious exception...but, rarely do trades pan out the way we hope they will. Harvin, Graham, even going back to Deion Branch - all examples. They felt that Brown would make the O line better, and he has - but not to the level they expected. They felt Richardson would create an unblockable front 4, but it hasn't worked that way. The huge problem with evaluating Sheldon right now is he was envisioned to fit WITH Avril, Bennett, and Clark around him. He lost Avril right away, Bennett is 75% with his foot, and Clark is inconsistent. They are not seeing the full concept of how Richardson was supposed to fit in.

He will command $10 million plus on the market. It says a lot to me that they have not signed him to a deal. If he gets to free agency, he is gone IMO.

PS We actually have 3 7th rounders...we got one from Philly for Matt Tobin, one from the Jets for Jermaine Kearse, and one from the Vikings for Tramaine Brock (even though he was only on the team for like 40 minutes).

I think we will see a lot of changes. They will not re-sign Graham, Paul Richardson, Lacy, Rawls, Aboushi, Garvin, Walsh, or Joeckel. Cliff and Kam will retire, I think - neck and nerve issues are not something you mess around with. I think they will try and trade Bennett, who is more interested in social causes and his brand than he is in football now - but the dead cap with that move is substantial. The Bennett and Kam extensions look pretty bad at this point. I don't begrudge their loyalty, however.

I think they move on from Jon Ryan, the longest tenured Seahawk. He is expensive and can be replaced, and has really fallen off this season. He is also 37.

I think they would like to keep McDougald, but he may get a lot more elsewhere.

They need to build the offense around Russell Wilson and the defense around Bobby Wagner. I would also not be shocked to see Sherman moved, but that is less likely with him coming off his injury and being owed a lot of money. Regardless, 2018 is probably his last season in Seattle.

On the plus side, we have Chris Carson coming back and Carson + Davis isn't a bad running back group, plus a young buck in the draft.

It is going to be an interesting off-season at VMAC.


Perhaps they did, but has anyone been actually watching them play? Richardson has flashed moments, Brown has been abysmal. A DOWNGRADE at LT, Oboushi outplayed the guy, but somehow because he had a Pro Bowl in 2013 people think he has value or something.

Didn't like the trade at the time ( was good with a trade, but ultimately, thought the cost didn't come close to matching the return) but each time he gets put on his butt, or watches someone run by without laying a finger on them, or holds, I like it even less.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:02 pm

Maybe Brown's a quick study.
It looked on Sunday that he's already mastered Cables matador blocking technique and fit in well with the rest.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby idhawkman » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:07 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Maybe Brown's a quick study.
It looked on Sunday that he's already mastered Cables matador blocking technique and fit in well with the rest.


At some point, you have to really ask yourself if it is the player, the coach or maybe its the QB.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby mykc14 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:23 am

idhawkman wrote:
At some point, you have to really ask yourself if it is the player, the coach or maybe its the QB.


You would have to throw the RB in there as well. My guess would be OL coach/players. It’s hard to blame the QB when the OL has been as bad as it has (run and pas blocking). Also, for those who say RW causes some of his sacks by holding onto the ball too much I would say I totally agree, but he also uses his unique skill set to avoid a ton of sacks. There are very few QBs who get pressured as quickly as RW.
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Re: Next year we will get players back and good draft.

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:13 am

I don't know of any QB who wouldn't have become at least a little skittish and abandon early what might become a pocket after 5 years of our OL in front of him.
With Cable responsible for the OL and run game, it seems he has to go. If they want to keep him, then he has to focus solely on the OL and let the OC worry about the run game.
I think the egos are too big for that to happen, and it seems they need to change the philosophy on Offense, so I think it's time to replace both.
I don't see Pete doing that, though.
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