Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby obiken » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:39 pm

What’s wrong with a run or 2 to start the game against a team like that? Make those big boys tackle a few times before they chase Russ.
Whatever it is it’s not working often enough .


Great idea, but you have to be able to block; we cannot block, and we have used a boatload of running backs to make it happen. Our Run first identity is gone.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:43 pm

Largent80 wrote:When there are multiple problems there will be multiple questions about how to solve then.

When you have zero running game and the other team is running roughshod over your offensive line, you don't Chuck the damned ball 20, 30 or 40 yards down the field which Bevell did Sunday and has for every game this year and even in years past.

Certainly a head scratcher of why it's allowed by the organization. Just the same dumb plays that everyone knows is coming even before they run them.


I don't remember Bevell playing QB on Sunday?? So I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make, ultimately, the direction, location and distance of a pass hinges on the Quarterbacks decision.

Are you claiming there was no other receiving options? I assure you that even Bevell doesn't run an all go play on every pass play.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby obiken » Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:03 am

Bedevil becomes a convenient whipping boy. OK get rid of him, but its not going to change that much. We need blockers.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:28 am

obiken wrote:Bedevil becomes a convenient whipping boy. OK get rid of him, but its not going to change that much. We need blockers.


That's true. I never have seen the talent that others saw in this OL. But we can't fire the entire line.

We'll see what happens this offseason. But for the time being, we need to try to paint a smiley face on this pig of a season by going out and giving it our all against the Cowboys. Until we are mathematically eliminated, we need to push as hard as we can. That's what didn't happen to the Mora team. They got to a certain point and said "phuck it." I don't want to see the same thing happen to Pete's team.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby Sox-n-hawks » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:49 am

So it's not that the O-Line is untalented. THEY aren't utilized by Cable and Bevell properly. They zone block. Often times there will be one or two linemen standing around instead of finding a helmet to put theirs on. every linemen should be in contact with a body for maximum effectiveness. We rarely double team guys like Donald, so they eat us alive. Cable and Bevell own that.

Bevell may not play QB, but he certainly draws up the plays and routes. When a safety or LB cheats up to the LOS to spy on Wilson, it always seems to free someone up. I am nearly certain when Baldwin or P-Rich are "free" on the line, Bevell has specific routes for them to drop deep and get free. The problem is, the other teams realize this and plan for it and disguise coverages.

Bubble screens? Bevell. No POWER football at the line? Bevell/Cable. No Fullback to make that happen? Bevell/Pete.

In the words of Napoleon "If you build an army of 100 lions and their leader is a dog, in any fight, the lions will die like a dog. But if you build an army of 100 dogs and their leader is a lion, all dogs will fight like a lion."

Or as adapted by military leaders of today. "There are no bad teams, only bad officers." This is why guys like Blake Bortles look like a rockstar this year. Solid coaching. Or guys like Andrew Luck look awful. From time to time you get a truly special player like Russ or Favre that can survive bad coaching and become a HOF player. But it is rare. More often then not you see a player like RG3 ruined by horrific coaching. Stop the insanity before RW goes the way of RG3.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby Uppercut » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:37 am

What is telling is no NFL teams are beating down the door to get Bevell or Cable so PC keeps them as a wefare case
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby trents » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:10 am

Looked to me like Wilson was pressing too hard on Sunday to make something happen because we were so far behind in the score and that led to throwing into coverage on down field routes. He doesn't usually do that. In fact, I would say that over the course of his career he has had a tendency to be too conservative and to hold onto the ball too long waiting for someone to get more open on underneath routes. There have been lots of times in his career where I believe he should have trusted his big arm and gunned it in there like Farve used to do.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:07 am

trents wrote:Looked to me like Wilson was pressing too hard on Sunday to make something happen because we were so far behind in the score and that led to throwing into coverage on down field routes. He doesn't usually do that. In fact, I would say that over the course of his career he has had a tendency to be too conservative and to hold onto the ball too long waiting for someone to get more open on underneath routes. There have been lots of times in his career where I believe he should have trusted his big arm and gunned it in there like Farve used to do.


Once their team goes down by 4 scores, you pretty much have to forgive most any quarterback for pushing too hard, throwing into double coverages, etc. Once down by 25+ points, the odds of winning go down to a fraction of a percent. It almost never happens.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:11 am

Uppercut wrote:What is telling is no NFL teams are beating down the door to get Bevell or Cable so PC keeps them as a wefare case


With regards to Bevell, you're right, there haven't been any rumors of his being a HC candidate. IMO Bevell's perceived qualifications or lack thereof is as much a function of the overall demise of our team as it is anything he's done in the past couple of years.

But Cable's predicament is a little different. He has too many skeletons in his closet, especially for these times, to be considered by a team as a HC candidate even if both him and the team were doing well.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby obiken » Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:39 am

We cannot believe how easy it was to push them around, it was like playing the Cleveland Browns.

LA Ram player to a reporter.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby Largent80 » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:29 pm

I got tired of all of this crap and treated myself to Star Wars the Last Jedi today in IMAX 3-D and it was outstanding, so much fun that I just had to say for anyone feeling down, go do exactly that.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby Sox-n-hawks » Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:39 pm

obiken wrote:We cannot believe how easy it was to push them around, it was like playing the Cleveland Browns.

LA Ram player to a reporter.


EXACTLY what happens with a poorly executed zone blocking scheme.

"Zone blockers are at greater risk of simply being pushed back into the quarterback because their lack of weight and their inability to dictate leverage give the defender the advantage."

https://www.rockytoptalk.com/2009/8/26/999603/the-passing-game-in-a-zone
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:35 am

I agree with this. I’ve never liked the concept . It seems too much finesse and not enough force. Imo the shortcomings of the scheme and personnel have been masked by lynch in his prime, a healthy Rawls and of course Russ. Add one of the best defenses in history it was enough. Now it’s come unraveled . Misses in the draft, age and injuries have the team at a crossroads . I won’t bury them for the year until they are done but my heart says they are. It will be a critical offseason.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby Sox-n-hawks » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:12 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I agree with this. I’ve never liked the concept . It seems too much finesse and not enough force. Imo the shortcomings of the scheme and personnel have been masked by lynch in his prime, a healthy Rawls and of course Russ. Add one of the best defenses in history it was enough. Now it’s come unraveled . Misses in the draft, age and injuries have the team at a crossroads . I won’t bury them for the year until they are done but my heart says they are. It will be a critical offseason.


Draft some workhorses on the O-Line, a fullback and a stud safety.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby obiken » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:44 pm

Draft some workhorses on the O-Line, a fullback and a stud safety.


EVEN IF Pete could draft OLineman, which he can't, it would take two years to bring them up to speed. We don't have 2 years. Moreover, a FB is not going to do it. Safety ok.
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Re: Tired of hearing "We've got to get back to who we are."

Postby Vegaseahawk » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:01 pm

I will repeat a post from the "Changes We Need To See" thread
We need a freakin badass running back. Whether we get him through the draft, or
fa matters not. If PC, JS can find the next stud RB, we'll be ok, PERIOD!
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