NFL Conspiracies

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NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:40 pm

I’m not big on conspiracies but I have noticed a few things in the recent years that I thought were a bit weird. The first thing has been talked about before but not too much this year and that is the penalty differential between the Hawks and their opponents. Over the past 4 or 5 years the Hawks are consistently one of the most penalized teams in the NFL, but have the LEAST amount of penalties called on their opponents. Teams are significantly below their seasonal average in penalties when they play us... conspiracy or coincidence?

LA... they are good, don’t get me wrong. Gurley and Donald are the real deal and McVay is a very good offensive coach, but how much does the NFL need a team in LA to do well? Two terrible teams would be really bad for the leagues bottom line after allow them to move there. A good example of this occurred in the Rams hame vs the Titans. The Titans surprised the Rams with a quick onside kick before the Rams were ready. A flag was thrown and then the officials came together claiming the Rams called a TO. The officials talk to the Rams coaches who insist that they didn’t call a TO. Then all of the sudden the officials have the Titans te-kick. Did anybody else see this? If so has anybody heard an explanation for what happened. I am sure there was a good explanation for what happened but it looked really shady like the play happened and the officials were like, “crap, what do we do?” And they said “Rams you called a T.O... wink... wink..” and the Rams were like “ no we didn’t” so the officials were like, “umm... just re-kick.” Conspiracy or coincidence?

What do you think? Or any other NFL conspiracy ideas are welcome!
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:57 pm

You're not the former PI poster Steven Snell, are you?
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:01 pm

I don't think the NFL could engineer that many people in some kind of scam to make an NFL team in LA good. Rams are legit. We knew their defense was good. They finally have an offense. If Goff doesn't regress, they're going to be dangerous for years to come. They showed more than anything we need our run game back.

I'm not much for conspiracy theories. I don't look much at the penalties. I don't think they decide the outcomes of our games. I haven't seen a strong correlation between penalties and winning or losing. The only time penalties matter is if you haven't done enough to win where the penalties become something you analyze. Penalties are an irritating non-factor that fans clamp on to when they don't want to admit their team didn't play well enough to win.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:06 pm

RiverDog wrote:You're not the former PI poster Steven Snell, are you?


Lol, no. I don’t remember him. He might have been before my time. Was he a conspiracy nut?
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby idhawkman » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:06 pm

The Rams are good and the officials probably couldn't swing a whole game in like the Brown's favor but a helpful call (or non-call) at a crucial point can make the Rams even better than they really are. That's true for any team.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:09 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:I don't think the NFL could engineer that many people in some kind of scam to make an NFL team in LA good. Rams are legit. We knew their defense was good. They finally have an offense. If Goff doesn't regress, they're going to be dangerous for years to come. They showed more than anything we need our run game back.

I'm not much for conspiracy theories. I don't look much at the penalties. I don't think they decide the outcomes of our games. I haven't seen a strong correlation between penalties and winning or losing. The only time penalties matter is if you haven't done enough to win where the penalties become something you analyze. Penalties are an irritating non-factor that fans clamp on to when they don't want to admit their team didn't play well enough to win.


I agree with you on both counts, especially the fact that the rams are good. The discrepancy in penalties still is a head scratcher to me though as it has been a pattern for a number of years. Im not saying it’s s conspiracy it very well could be the way we play causes officials to overlook some of the other teams penalties or something. I don’t know why but the discrepancy still exists...
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Mon Dec 25, 2017 2:25 pm

mykc14 wrote:Lol, no. I don’t remember him. He might have been before my time. Was he a conspiracy nut?


Oh,yea, he was 100% convinced that the Rooneys paid off the refs in XL and that the game was totally and completely fixed, and that anyone that couldn't see that was as blind as a bat. I also had a number of debates with him involving the JFK assassination as he as convinced that the CIA conspired with the mob to bump off Kennedy.

I'm pretty skeptical of any conspiracy theory, especially in this day and age of instant communications, video and audio recording capability, etc, especially those that would require the cooperation of those that already have tons of money and would be assuming a huge amount of risk for what to them is mere peanuts.

As far as the discrepancy in penalties goes, I feel that it's more of a matter our reputation working against us, and I wish Pete would start bringing up that discrepancy in his post game conferences and give those crews something to think about.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:43 pm

Most of the penalties seem to be because we have new O-linemen every year and defensive lineman that go offsides trying to time the snap, and teach some grabby play in our secondary. It's our style of play that leads to a lot of these penalties. The offensive ones are the main ones I care about. Those are penalties due to lack of coaching and or development time as well as discipline. Mistiming snaps on pass rushing and occasional holds or PIs on secondary play are penalties that will happen and don't affect our play much given our defense's status as one of the best in the league.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:04 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Most of the penalties seem to be because we have new O-linemen every year and defensive lineman that go offsides trying to time the snap, and teach some grabby play in our secondary. It's our style of play that leads to a lot of these penalties. The offensive ones are the main ones I care about. Those are penalties due to lack of coaching and or development time as well as discipline. Mistiming snaps on pass rushing and occasional holds or PIs on secondary play are penalties that will happen and don't affect our play much given our defense's status as one of the best in the league.


Yeah I wouldn’t say the penalties called on us are an issue it’s more the lack of penalties called on the other team that is curious to me. Especially when you compare a teams average penalties in other games compared to the games they play
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:13 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Oh,yea, he was 100% convinced that the Rooneys paid off the refs in XL and that the game was totally and completely fixed, and that anyone that couldn't see that was as blind as a bat. I also had a number of debates with him involving the JFK assassination as he as convinced that the CIA conspired with the mob to bump off Kennedy.

I'm pretty skeptical of any conspiracy theory, especially in this day and age of instant communications, video and audio recording capability, etc, especially those that would require the cooperation of those that already have tons of money and would be assuming a huge amount of risk for what to them is mere peanuts.

As far as the discrepancy in penalties goes, I feel that it's more of a matter our reputation working against us, and I wish Pete would start bringing up that discrepancy in his post game conferences and give those crews something to think about.


That’s funny. I’m not that extreme. In fact I usually poo poo anybody who brings up conspiracies, maybe I’m getting more and more skeptical as I get older.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:43 pm

mykc14 wrote:That’s funny. I’m not that extreme. In fact I usually poo poo anybody who brings up conspiracies, maybe I’m getting more and more skeptical as I get older.


I know you're not that extreme, and I got the sense that your post was playing a Devil's advocate type of thought process rather than espousing a true belief.

But speaking for myself, growing older doesn't promote a more fertile ground for conspiracy theories, but quite the opposite. After hearing 50 years worth of zany, off the wall quacky propositions, some involving JFK, others involving things such as the moon landings or the WTC collapse, has caused me to associate the term "conspiracy" with "moonbat". They really need to replace the term "conspiracy" with something like "alternate explanation" if they want me to maintain my objectivity about the subject.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby burrrton » Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:51 pm

I don't think it's an outright conspiracy, but I believe it's entirely reasonable to think NFL officials may have a predisposition to favor (or not) certain teams based on a variety of factors, and with as consistent as the rogering has been against SEA (via calls/non-calls in our games), I think it's obvious our players and/or style of play has affected that.

Yeah, I know every team think they came out on the wrong end of every call, but we have data to back that up.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby jshawaii22 » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:15 pm

As conspiracy requires at least two people, and in this day and age, the more people that would need to be involved, the less chance there is to succeed. Most of the "conspiracies" would require many, many people to know, pass-on or hide there knowledge. Blackmail is common.

However, that does leave one giant possible NFL conspiracy that I would believe, and that's Al Riveron's total control over every replay -- this means that it could be Goodell to him on a private line. I could see $100k for that influence. No, you can't decide ahead of time which plays or teams would get to him, but enough of his replay decisions have left us fans scratching our heads (or he is just clueless) and at times it seems he 's under a predetermined outcome.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby burrrton » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:55 pm

ESPN just called him out a couple days ago, js- with extreme prejudice, as a matter of fact.

The NFL needs to figure something out on their officiating. It literally ruins the game as it is now.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:07 am

jshawaii22 wrote:However, that does leave one giant possible NFL conspiracy that I would believe, and that's Al Riveron's total control over every replay -- this means that it could be Goodell to him on a private line. I could see $100k for that influence. No, you can't decide ahead of time which plays or teams would get to him, but enough of his replay decisions have left us fans scratching our heads (or he is just clueless) and at times it seems he 's under a predetermined outcome.


Goodell's not going to be stupid enough to take that kind of risk. Not only would he immediately be fired from a job paying him close to $50M and a contract close to $200M, he'd put himself in a position of at least being sued by other owners or at worst charged with a felony crime. Besides, what's in it for him..unless he just plain hates a specific team, coach, or player?

As far as penalties goes, we continue to lead the league in that category, but you really have to look at the type of penalties we are drawing to determine if we are the victim of a bias. In addition to leading the league in penalties, we draw more pre-snap penalties than any other team. 1 out of every 3 of our penalties are pre snap, and there's not a hell of a lot of officiating bias that can affect pre snap situations. You also have to look at the beneficiary count, and we're not top 10 in the least benefitting category.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

That doesn't mean that I don't think that there aren't certain situations where a ref makes a split second decision whether to throw the flag or not.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby Largent80 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:52 am

This boils down to simple things. Too many rules as in WAY too many.

And officials doing a piss poor job of determining what is a foul and what isn't.

Take a look at Coleman getting ripped down by his neck Sunday and they called the penalty on HIM !!!

That;s just one example, there are 10's of thousands in each season. It's making people turn off in record numbers.

Also, I will say this has been going on for decades. Anyone remember XL??...I left football for 3 years after that. Came back and it's worse than ever.

There is no conspiracy, just a bunch of fools running around in striped outfits.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby Oly » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:22 am

burrrton wrote:I don't think it's an outright conspiracy, but I believe it's entirely reasonable to think NFL officials may have a predisposition to favor (or not) certain teams based on a variety of factors, and with as consistent as the rogering has been against SEA (via calls/non-calls in our games), I think it's obvious our players and/or style of play has affected that.

Yeah, I know every team think they came out on the wrong end of every call, but we have data to back that up.


I think this is exactly it. The Hawks have a reputation for committing more penalties than the average team, and when officials go into the game they don't only expect the Hawks to commit a lot of penalties (which they do...I'm looking at you Ifedi and Bennett...), but that there to be a discrepancy between the Hawks and the other team. That bias would lead them to tip 50-50 calls toward Hawk penalties and opponent non-penalties.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:23 am

They've "lawyered" the rule book to death.
The debate about what constitutes a catch is still ongoing which says everything you need to know about the state of the rules and the administration of them.
There are 5 fundamental skills (running, blocking, tackling, passing, and catching) that this game requires to play and they can't define one of them to fit in some cases even obvious successful execution of one of those skills.
Too many words create too many grey areas open to subjectivity and interpretation.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:31 am

NorthHawk wrote:They've "lawyered" the rule book to death.
The debate about what constitutes a catch is still ongoing which says everything you need to know about the state of the rules and the administration of them.
There are 5 fundamental skills (running, blocking, tackling, passing, and catching) that this game requires to play and they can't define one of them to fit in some cases even obvious successful execution of one of those skills.
Too many words create too many grey areas open to subjectivity and interpretation.


Not only that, but they'll have a once in a blue moon, freaky situation that they'll try to address by creating a rule. We saw one being applied in our game yesterday: The Holy Roller rule. Fortnuetly it was inconsequential for both teams but there's been at least one situation occur wheere it produced unintended consequences.

Trivia question: Does anyone know when you can have an unopposed free FG attempt with the defense not even being allowed to attempt a block?
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:37 am

RiverDog wrote:
Trivia question: Does anyone know when you can have an unopposed free FG attempt with the defense not even being allowed to attempt a block?


Right after you fair catch a punt.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:52 am

mykc14 wrote:Right after you fair catch a punt....


....or a kickoff.

Hairball tried it once and missed on a 71 yard FG attempt at the end of a half.

Here's another part of the fair catch rule I just noticed:

If time expires while ball is in play and a fair catch is awarded, receiving team may choose to extend the period with one fair catch kick down. However, placekicker may not use tee.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:36 am

RiverDog wrote:
....or a kickoff.

Hairball tried it once and missed on a 71 yard FG attempt at the end of a half.

Here's another part of the fair catch rule I just noticed:

If time expires while ball is in play and a fair catch is awarded, receiving team may choose to extend the period with one fair catch kick down. However, placekicker may not use tee.


I didn’t know Harbaugh tried one. I’ve never actually seen anybody attempt anything like that, but it would be cool to see. It just goes to show all the crazy rules in the league, like the batted ball we saw with K.J. last year, or the kickoff return guy going out of bounds to touch the kickoff. There is just so much for these officials to know!
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:45 am

mykc14 wrote:I didn’t know Harbaugh tried one. I’ve never actually seen anybody attempt anything like that, but it would be cool to see. It just goes to show all the crazy rules in the league, like the batted ball we saw with K.J. last year, or the kickoff return guy going out of bounds to touch the kickoff. There is just so much for these officials to know!


The play you are referring to with KJ happened 3 years ago, and I was in the Hawk's Nest to see it all unfold in front of me.

The amazing part to me is that you hardly ever see an obscure rule escape the attention of the refs. Sunday's Cowboys game is a classic example of the refs realizing after the fumbled exchange that the Holy Roller rule was in effect.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:31 am

Don't get me started. Yes SB XL between the Seasquaks owned by the geeky techno nerd vs the Hallowed Stealers owned by league godfather Dan Rooney who got both Rozelle and Tagliabue their jobs was rigged. From the automatic security gate slamming into the van transporting Seahawks lineman including Jones and Hutch, to the promotional commercials played by the League, to the league allowing the sale of terrible towels in a stadium 500 miles from Pittsburgh,
to the calls and the non calls as the strike zone varied wildly depending on the color of the jersey for 60 brutal minutes of being treated like the new jersey generals,
it was a jobbing of epic proportions.
Yeah it was rigged. No smoky back rooms or accounts in the caymans. The refs just knew the deal. Being an NFL referee is the most glamorous officiating job in pro sports. Its a privilege, not a right. They knew what was supposed to happen with Paul tagliabue sitting in Dan Rooney's luxury box...

Sunday on Seattle's first possession Lockett was clearly yanked down as he attempted to catch a 20 yard pass on 3rd down. No call. Second possession Richardson is shoved just as he attempts to high point the pass, something hes gone all year.
You can't jump when you're off balance. No call.
Then our guy gets called for running the route better than the receiver and getting face masked. Vs Jax Richardson is molested with the game on the line. No call.
And yes I watched the entire Titan rams game. The titans got screwed numerous times in a one possession game.
The league is desperate for new blood and especially in the LA market. Refs understand this.

Yeah, some teams play the zebras too. It was no different for anyone going up against Jordan or Malone in the day. They know who the money makers are.
It sucks though. It's a testimony to the greatness of Seattle they have excelled in spite of it but they aren't good enough to overcome it anymore.
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:22 pm

RiverDog wrote:
The play you are referring to with KJ happened 3 years ago, and I was in the Hawk's Nest to see it all unfold in front of me.



That was 3 years ago!!! My gosh I’m getting old! These last 5-7 years or so really are all rolling together for me. It’s hard for me to say what happened when. Maybe it’s because that when I started have kids (7,5,4)? I don’t know but at least it makes me still think/ feel like I’m in my 20’s!
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:23 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Don't get me started. Yes SB XL between the Seasquaks owned by the geeky techno nerd vs the Hallowed Stealers owned by league godfather Dan Rooney who got both Rozelle and Tagliabue their jobs was rigged. From the automatic security gate slamming into the van transporting Seahawks lineman including Jones and Hutch, to the promotional commercials played by the League, to the league allowing the sale of terrible towels in a stadium 500 miles from Pittsburgh,
to the calls and the non calls as the strike zone varied wildly depending on the color of the jersey for 60 brutal minutes of being treated like the new jersey generals,
it was a jobbing of epic proportions.
Yeah it was rigged. No smoky back rooms or accounts in the caymans. The refs just knew the deal. Being an NFL referee is the most glamorous officiating job in pro sports. Its a privilege, not a right. They knew what was supposed to happen with Paul tagliabue sitting in Dan Rooney's luxury box...

Sunday on Seattle's first possession Lockett was clearly yanked down as he attempted to catch a 20 yard pass on 3rd down. No call. Second possession Richardson is shoved just as he attempts to high point the pass, something hes gone all year.
You can't jump when you're off balance. No call.
Then our guy gets called for running the route better than the receiver and getting face masked. Vs Jax Richardson is molested with the game on the line. No call.
And yes I watched the entire Titan rams game. The titans got screwed numerous times in a one possession game.
The league is desperate for new blood and especially in the LA market. Refs understand this.

Yeah, some teams play the zebras too. It was no different for anyone going up against Jordan or Malone in the day. They know who the money makers are.
It sucks though. It's a testimony to the greatness of Seattle they have excelled in spite of it but they aren't good enough to overcome it anymore.


I’m not quite ready to go that far, but I’m much closer than I was 5 years ago. Give me another 5 years of this and I might be right there with you!
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:28 pm

mykc14 wrote:That was 3 years ago!!! My gosh I’m getting old! These last 5-7 years or so really are all rolling together for me. It’s hard for me to say what happened when. Maybe it’s because that when I started have kids (7,5,4)? I don’t know but at least it makes me still think/ feel like I’m in my 20’s!


Hehehe! I hate to tell you this, but as you grow old, memory is just the 2nd thing to go. Have fun figuring out which part of you went first. :D
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Re: NFL Conspiracies

Postby mykc14 » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:55 pm

RiverDog wrote:Hehehe! I hate to tell you this, but as you grow old, memory is just the 2nd thing to go. Have fun figuring out which part of you went first. :D


Crap! I better enjoy it while I can!
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