its the oline and system

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its the oline and system

Postby Anthony » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:10 am

973 yards 4.6 yards per carry and 6 tds, Alex collins enough said
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:51 am

Anthony wrote:973 yards 4.6 yards per carry and 6 tds, Alex collins enough said


Collins had a nice season with the Ravens, but it's not necessarily an indictment on one team's system if a player that failed in it goes to another team's system and succeeds.

However, in this case, I tend to agree that Collins success in Baltimore is just one more indication at how utterly broken our running game is, and there's tons of other indicators, such as:

Our quarterback had over twice the number of rushing yards than any other individual on our team.

Up until Week 17, the running back with the most yards rushing was Chris Carson, who hadn't played a down since Week 4.

We did not have a 100 yard rushing effort from any individual in the entire season.

It was a sad, sad performance, and highlights the biggest single need that needs fixing, a need that many of us have complained about for years.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby Sox-n-hawks » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:03 am

Experiment Failed. Bring in David Shaw or Chris Peterson or Lincoln Riley as OC!!!! DO IT.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:36 am

I agree it's not an indictment on the system, but it's absolutely says a lot about our O-line.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:42 pm

Sox-n-hawks wrote:Experiment Failed. Bring in David Shaw or Chris Peterson or Lincoln Riley as OC!!!! DO IT.


Those guys aren't giving up top top 20 college jobs for an NFL OC. If they decide to go into the NFL, it will be as HC's.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:13 pm

Lmao.... always someone bemoaning players that didn't perform performing somewhere else.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby Anthony » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:19 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Lmao.... always someone bemoaning players that didn't perform performing somewhere else.



Not bemoaning just pointing out it out
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:25 pm

Yup it's the system, that's why everyone in the NFL was clamoring for his fumble prone, touchdown lacking performance when he was cut.... believe it or not, some players just perform better in other systems. Happens throughout the NFL year in and year out.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby Anthony » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:36 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Yup it's the system, that's why everyone in the NFL was clamoring for his fumble prone, touchdown lacking performance when he was cut.... believe it or not, some players just perform better in other systems. Happens throughout the NFL year in and year out.


LOL and yet there he is playing well, not fumbling with every expert saying we screwed up.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:46 pm

I think it shows this system requires a very special RB to be consistently productive. It took us to what should have been successive Super Bowl wins, so I think Pete doesn't see a need to change much outside of that RB.
When Lynch went down there was a noticeable change in not being able to get the tough yards or grind out a couple of first downs. Rawls started out good, but the signs were there that he couldn't put the Offense on his back when a spark was needed. Then when he got hurt we really saw how bad our OL needs a big time RB.

From reading what Pete said today it looks more certain that they will take a RB early and maybe more than one in this draft. Also look for an overall increase in team speed with additions this off season.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby Anthony » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:15 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I think it shows this system requires a very special RB to be consistently productive. It took us to what should have been successive Super Bowl wins, so I think Pete doesn't see a need to change much outside of that RB.
When Lynch went down there was a noticeable change in not being able to get the tough yards or grind out a couple of first downs. Rawls started out good, but the signs were there that he couldn't put the Offense on his back when a spark was needed. Then when he got hurt we really saw how bad our OL needs a big time RB.

From reading what Pete said today it looks more certain that they will take a RB early and maybe more than one in this draft. Also look for an overall increase in team speed with additions this off season.


I agree I also think we might be a player in Fa for lineman, No matter who the RB is we need to improve the line for both the RB and Wilson
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby chris98251 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:37 pm

I agree I also think we might be a player in Fa for lineman, No matter who the RB is we need to improve the line for both the RB and Wilson


So more resources to a group that has been proven unfixable under the current scheme and staff's coaching, Lynch succeeded in spite of their deficiencies, he was hit behind the line a lot and managed yards after contact that became positive yards. You can't expect a running game that has it's back getting contact before they hit the line to be a success.

This is our problem, hoping you have a Lynch, Earl Campbell, or someone of that type that refuses to be tackled by one person or even two isn't something most people would want to stake a career on.

It's why there has to be a change in the scheme, there are different types of ZBS systems, we switch to a power scheme many times and all of a sudden there is success, can't for the life of me figure out why they cannot be consistent with it.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby idhawkman » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:54 pm

I know some of you will slam me for this but it would be great to see Chris Petersen come in as OC and bring Wilcox in as the DC. (I know PC won't want to give up the defense but I'd love to see it). Or.... maybe they could bring in one of Buddy Ryan's boys to be DC. (yes, I'm ducking for cover right now but I thought we could use a laugh - there's always a little truth in a joke, right?)
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:07 pm

idhawkman wrote:I know some of you will slam me for this but it would be great to see Chris Petersen come in as OC and bring Wilcox in as the DC. (I know PC won't want to give up the defense but I'd love to see it). Or.... maybe they could bring in one of Buddy Ryan's boys to be DC. (yes, I'm ducking for cover right now but I thought we could use a laugh - there's always a little truth in a joke, right?)


Peterson isn't going to give up a Top 20 college HC job for an NFL coordinator's job. Can you name a college head coach with the resume Peterson has going for him that gave up his college HC job for an NFL coordinator?
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby chris98251 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:20 pm

I would love to see what Peterson could do, but I think he likes the relative obscurity of being at UW, the school isn't obscure as much as people ignore the Northwest a lot, the NFL may be to much in the spotlight for his liking.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:56 am

chris98251 wrote:I would love to see what Peterson could do, but I think he likes the relative obscurity of being at UW, the school isn't obscure as much as people ignore the Northwest a lot, the NFL may be to much in the spotlight for his liking.


I've seen some college coaches names bandied about, in particular David Shaw at Stanford for the Colts HC job. He coached Andrew Luck when he was at Stanford. Of course, it's all pure speculation, writers trying to connect the dots.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby idhawkman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:03 pm

idhawkman wrote:I know some of you will slam me for this but it would be great to see Chris Petersen come in as OC and bring Wilcox in as the DC. (I know PC won't want to give up the defense but I'd love to see it). Or.... maybe they could bring in one of Buddy Ryan's boys to be DC. (yes, I'm ducking for cover right now but I thought we could use a laugh - there's always a little truth in a joke, right?)
RiverDog wrote:
Peterson isn't going to give up a Top 20 college HC job for an NFL coordinator's job. Can you name a college head coach with the resume Peterson has going for him that gave up his college HC job for an NFL coordinator?


Crap Riv, do you push little baby ducks in the water, too? Its less than a week after the season ended, let me dream a little would ya? :(

No I can't name anyone but hey, I'm in la la land right now hopin' and a wishin' until it don't happen...
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby idhawkman » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:04 pm

chris98251 wrote:I would love to see what Peterson could do, but I think he likes the relative obscurity of being at UW, the school isn't obscure as much as people ignore the Northwest a lot, the NFL may be to much in the spotlight for his liking.


Chris, welcome aboard.

That said, if Peterson wanted obscurity, he would have stayed at Boise State. Not that Boise State is obscure but they are more obscure than UW.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:05 pm

idhawkman wrote:That said, if Peterson wanted obscurity, he would have stayed at Boise State. Not that Boise State is obscure but they are more obscure than UW.


At the time Peterson was at Boise State, his program was considered top 10. Washington's wasn't even top 25. Granted, the combination of being in the Pac 12 and in a large metro area like Seattle makes a huge difference in visability, but Boise State was a much more notable program than any NW Pac 12 program except Oregon. At the time, Peterson probably had a better chance of winning a NC at Boise than at UW. Of course, he's subsequently turned UW around into one of if not the best program west of the Mississippi.

The other thing is that there's no guarantee that a successful college coach will be able to duplicate that success in the NFL. Pete is an obvious exception, but for every Pete Carroll there's two or three Bobby Petrios/Steve Spurriers/Nick Sabans.

That being said, I really like Chris Peterson and feel he could be one of those exceptions.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby chris98251 » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:29 pm

Reason he came to UW was to be in contention for National Championship, he was constantly getting snubbed by teams in contention when trying to set up schedules and other teams feared losing to a lesser conference school. UW is not completely obscure and is a somewhat out of the way location as well as not being in a NCAA focus routine such as USC and UCLA, Oregon probably would have been a good place as well if the Jobs there were open.The BCS commission at the time had a prejudice against non BCS schools.Kind of why Utah and the Colorado schools moved into the PAC conference as well.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:10 am

chris98251 wrote:Reason he came to UW was to be in contention for National Championship, he was constantly getting snubbed by teams in contention when trying to set up schedules and other teams feared losing to a lesser conference school. UW is not completely obscure and is a somewhat out of the way location as well as not being in a NCAA focus routine such as USC and UCLA, Oregon probably would have been a good place as well if the Jobs there were open.The BCS commission at the time had a prejudice against non BCS schools.Kind of why Utah and the Colorado schools moved into the PAC conference as well.


Utah and Colorado's situations were quite different. Utah definetly wanted to move up, but Colorado was already in the Big 12, but after Nebraska left for the Big 10, they decided to blow the coop, too, as the Big 12 started to disintegrate. Since the former Pac 10 wanted a conference championship game to advance the status of their champ in the eyes of the BCS, they had to expand to 12 teams. The BCS was responsible for the game of musical chairs within the major colleges.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby idhawkman » Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:31 am

As Chris said, there's no way the college money managers would ever let BSU compete for a NC. They keep them out by not scheduling games against BSU with contending teams and then they complain about their strength of schedule to keep them out of the big dance. The exception was when no one thought that BSU could beat a Va. Tech or Georgia. once that happened, they no longer could get a big game against a contending school.

I wouldn't put it past Pete to take a OC job in the NFL, he did it in College when he came to BSU. He knows sometimes you have to work your way up and I don't think he would want to break into the NFL at the Head Coach level. Too big of a learning curve and too high expectations would be heaved on him. But he would be a great NFL coach.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:28 am

idhawkman wrote:As Chris said, there's no way the college money managers would ever let BSU compete for a NC. They keep them out by not scheduling games against BSU with contending teams and then they complain about their strength of schedule to keep them out of the big dance. The exception was when no one thought that BSU could beat a Va. Tech or Georgia. once that happened, they no longer could get a big game against a contending school.

I wouldn't put it past Pete to take a OC job in the NFL, he did it in College when he came to BSU. He knows sometimes you have to work your way up and I don't think he would want to break into the NFL at the Head Coach level. Too big of a learning curve and too high expectations would be heaved on him. But he would be a great NFL coach.


There's a huge bias in the NFL against college coaches making the jump directly to HC. Here are the last 10 coaches hired over the past 2 years and their previous jobs:

Hue Jackson, Browns. Previous job: OC, Bengals (also former Raiders HC)
Doug Marrone, Jags. Previous job: OL coach, Jags.
Adam Gase, Dolphins. Previous job: OC, Bears.
Doug Pederson, Eagles. Previous job: OC,Chiefs.
Dirk Koetter, Bucs. Previous job: OC, Bucs.
Sean McDermott, Bills. Previous job: DC, Panthers.
Vance Joseph, Broncos. Previous job: DC, Dolphins.
Anthony Lynn, Chargers. Previous job: RB coach, Bills.
Sean McVay, Rams. Previous job: OC, Redskins.
Kyle Shannahan, 49'ers. Previous job: OC, Falcons.

As a matter of fact, there are only two of the active NFL coaches (Pete Carroll and Texans HC Bill O'Brien) whose previous job was a college HC, and even those two had extensive experience in the NFL prior to their college gig. Chris Peterson has never had an NFL job.

I like Chris Peterson a lot, but I don't think he gets an NFL HC job. Teams want to see that NFL experience on a resume.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby idhawkman » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:21 pm

RiverDog wrote:
There's a huge bias in the NFL against college coaches making the jump directly to HC. Here are the last 10 coaches hired over the past 2 years and their previous jobs:

Hue Jackson, Browns. Previous job: OC, Bengals (also former Raiders HC)
Doug Marrone, Jags. Previous job: OL coach, Jags.
Adam Gase, Dolphins. Previous job: OC, Bears.
Doug Pederson, Eagles. Previous job: OC,Chiefs.
Dirk Koetter, Bucs. Previous job: OC, Bucs.
Sean McDermott, Bills. Previous job: DC, Panthers.
Vance Joseph, Broncos. Previous job: DC, Dolphins.
Anthony Lynn, Chargers. Previous job: RB coach, Bills.
Sean McVay, Rams. Previous job: OC, Redskins.
Kyle Shannahan, 49'ers. Previous job: OC, Falcons.

As a matter of fact, there are only two of the active NFL coaches (Pete Carroll and Texans HC Bill O'Brien) whose previous job was a college HC, and even those two had extensive experience in the NFL prior to their college gig. Chris Peterson has never had an NFL job.

I like Chris Peterson a lot, but I don't think he gets an NFL HC job. Teams want to see that NFL experience on a resume.


I agree. That's why I've been saying he should be the OC for the Seahawks and not a HC in the NFL first.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby RiverDog » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:55 am

idhawkman wrote:I agree. That's why I've been saying he should be the OC for the Seahawks and not a HC in the NFL first.


Except that Peterson is 53 years old, and he's been a HC for going on 13 years. Moving to an OC job in the NFL would almost certainly involve a pay cut with no guarantees that he'd be able to translate is college success into the pros and progress to HC. I think the only way he moves to the pros is if some moonbat owner like Dan Snyder breaks with tradition and gives him a head coaching job.

If a team does dip down to the colleges, IMO a better candidate would be David Shaw. He has NFL experience and is only 45 years old. There was talk that the Colts might be interested in him as they're looking for an offensive minded guy that can coach up Andrew Luck, and Shaw coached Luck at Stanford.
Last edited by RiverDog on Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby Hawktawk » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:48 am

Sox-n-hawks wrote:Experiment Failed. Bring in David Shaw or Chris Peterson or Lincoln Riley as OC!!!! DO IT.

Chris Peterson couldn’t take the pay cut. Bring him in as HC/OC.

What the hell. I’ve already said it. If Carroll isn’t willing to shake up his staff after several years of offensive dysfunction he should step down.
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Re: its the oline and system

Postby idhawkman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:35 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Except that Peterson is 53 years old, and he's been a HC for going on 13 years. Moving to an OC job in the NFL would almost certainly involve a pay cut with no guarantees that he'd be able to translate is college success into the pros and progress to HC. I think the only way he moves to the pros is if some moonbat owner like Dan Snyder breaks with tradition and gives him a head coaching job.

If a team does dip down to the colleges, IMO a better candidate would be David Shaw. He has NFL experience and is only 45 years old. There was talk that the Colts might be interested in him as they're looking for an offensive minded guy that can coach up Andrew Luck, and Shaw coached Luck at Stanford.

Remember, Dan Quinn spent 2 years as DC here and got a great job in Atlanta after that as the HC. I know he was here before that and then went to Florida as the DC before coming back. Sometimes you have to take one step back to take 2 steps forward.

But again, quit raining on my dream parade would ya... :)
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