This is what y'all really wanted to hear

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This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:44 pm

Bob Condotta


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I can report that the Seahawks have fired offensive line coach Tom Cable. Will be let go along with Darrell Bevell as the Seahawks look to completely revamp their offensive coaching staff.

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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Anthony » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:44 pm

YES, now we will see how much was those 2 bozos and how much was Pete
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby I-5 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:01 pm

Those two bozos helped bring a Lombardi trophy to Seattle. Unless you think that was all defense only.

I do agree their time was probably up, but we're not necessarily going to be better just by putting new coaches in there. Let's hope Pete still has his magic touch!
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Anthony » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:18 pm

I-5 wrote:Those two bozos helped bring a Lombardi trophy to Seattle. Unless you think that was all defense only.

I do agree their time was probably up, but we're not necessarily going to be better just by putting new coaches in there. Let's hope Pete still has his magic touch!


I am glad they helped us get a Trophy but that was a few years ago, alot has changed but they have not been able to figure out how to make it work so its time to find someone who can
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Zorn76 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:29 pm

And this is Exactly what this team needs, at minimum.
There isn't a single fan anywhere that could justify keeping tweedlee & tweedledum any longer.

It got bad enough that even PETE decided to fire these clowns, and he's loyal to a fault.
That's because neither Tom or Darrell did squat over the last 3 seasons.
And, yes, Bevell and Cable also had very Little to do with our success overall.

Good Riddance.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:16 pm

At least I have some hope for the O-line now. I can't imagine it getting any worse.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:42 pm

It’s a little shocking to see them just clean house . It seemed to take quite a while after the season to do it. I wonder if pressure was put on Pete. I’m hard pressed to see him unilaterally making these decisions. Carroll has 2 years to turn it back around. Hopefully they get great coaches.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:56 pm

Bevell and Cable helped to win one Lombardi but Bevell "evened" it out 1 year later and Cable has been on the wrong side of the ledger for a while. With Richard it may have to do with a rumor that Gus Bradley was coming back so maybe Richard will accept a demotion?

I don't believe for a moment that Pete had a say in all of these firings. I believe Pete was told he either clean house or be let go and Carrol decided he wanted to stay around a bit longer. It was a package deal though, Pete and John Schneider together for the future!

Now would be a good time to take that Axe to the roster like they did the first few years just to clean house and get rid of the dead weight and gain some salary cap room WHOO HOO ! WOO HOO!!

edit; I understand Gus Bradley signed with Sa Diego, Bummer! Maybe the Jags pulled the trigger too soon, it happens.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby mykc14 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:27 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Bob Condotta


@bcondotta
7m7 minutes ago
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I can report that the Seahawks have fired offensive line coach Tom Cable. Will be let go along with Darrell Bevell as the Seahawks look to completely revamp their offensive coaching staff.

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This is what I wanted to hear. His OL And Run game have been terrible for me he last 2 years. For a team that supposedly is run first we were not getting it done and whoever was in charge of that needed to go.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:44 pm

There is no way that Pete could keep a straight face in firing Bevell if he subsequently kept Tom Cable. Pete had specifically assigned the running game to Cable, and that aspect of our offense was clearly the worst part of an overall inept offense. Once he fired Bevell, Cable had to go.

The other thing that Pete has done, at least in my mind, with these moves is that he's pushed all his chips, including that one with the Lombardi trophy on it, to the center of the table. If this doesn't work out, then there will be no one else for him to throw under the bus. Ultimately the man at the top has to take responsibility.

With all the changes that I see coming, I'm willing to give Pete at least another year. Had he not made any changes, I would be calling for his head at the end of the 2018 season if it were to end like this one did.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby I-5 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:03 am

Does anyone else besides me think that JS plays a huge role in the erosion of the offense? I know both Cable and Bevell play a role in drafting the players they want, and Pete too, but ultimately it's JS that runs the player personnel part of the program. I'm not saying to get rid of him, but I'm suprised there isn't more energy directed towards his fallabalities from both a draft and free agency standpoint. We had a couple of amazing drafts (2010, 2012), and a lot of mediocre ones in between.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:07 am

I-5 wrote:Does anyone else besides me think that JS plays a huge role in the erosion of the offense? I know both Cable and Bevell play a role in drafting the players they want, and Pete too, but ultimately it's JS that runs the player personnel part of the program. I'm not saying to get rid of him, but I'm suprised there isn't more energy directed towards his fallabalities from both a draft and free agency standpoint. We had a couple of amazing drafts (2010, 2012), and a lot of mediocre ones in between.


We can't absolve JS or PC in this. It was a conscious decision to spend on Defense rather than Offense and both must have known it was a gamble.
Now we're seeing what happens when a team doesn't have a balance between O and D.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:47 pm

I-5 wrote:Does anyone else besides me think that JS plays a huge role in the erosion of the offense? I know both Cable and Bevell play a role in drafting the players they want, and Pete too, but ultimately it's JS that runs the player personnel part of the program. I'm not saying to get rid of him, but I'm suprised there isn't more energy directed towards his fallabalities from both a draft and free agency standpoint. We had a couple of amazing drafts (2010, 2012), and a lot of mediocre ones in between.


I'm pretty sure that when Pete was hired that he was given veto power over anything football-related. I remember thinking at the time that they had it backwards, that they hired a HC before they hired a GM, but I do believe that one of the reasons Pete came here in the first place was because of the amount of authority he was given.

So basically, John works for Pete. If JS he sees a good player become available or a trade opportunity, he has to run it past Pete first. They work so well together, at least what we can see on the surface, that the supervisor/subordinate relationship becomes a bit muddied.

Bottom line is that the head honcho is Pete.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:40 pm

RiverDog wrote:Bottom line is that the head honcho is Pete.


Yup. And evidently the bar for shaking things up is missing the playoffs. I'm good with it.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:54 pm

Bottom line is that the head honcho is Pete.


Yup. And evidently the bar for shaking things up is missing the playoffs. I'm good with it.


Me, too. Success breeds expectations, and the Seahawks were clearly not meeting expectations.

And as I said in another thread, in my mind, the fact that Pete has accepted that his team just isn't as good as he's always talked them up to be is a huge plus and bought him another year. Had he elected to stand pat and deny the obvious, it would have been at least playoffs or bust with me.

This is going to be like a mini rebuild. Depending on who Pete brings in, we may or may not (more like may not) have the personnel to run the type of system the new OC wants to run. We can't expect the new coaches to work miracles with the garbage that Cable's left behind.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby I-5 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 8:13 pm

No doubt PC is the President of Football Operations and makes all final decisions. My point is that I think personnel issues are just as big as coaching issues. We resolved part of the coaching issues by letting Bevell, Cable, and probably Richard go. Will our personnel program undergo a change, too? I don't think Pete is going to fire himself, and I wouldn't want to see that.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:12 pm

I-5 wrote:No doubt PC is the President of Football Operations and makes all final decisions. My point is that I think personnel issues are just as big as coaching issues. We resolved part of the coaching issues by letting Bevell, Cable, and probably Richard go. Will our personnel program undergo a change, too? I don't think Pete is going to fire himself, and I wouldn't want to see that.


Yea, but just imagine being a Cowboys fan and being upset with the GM. Who's going to fire the Cowboy's GM?

But seriously, you make a good point. Don't expect immediate results just because we bring in a couple of new coaches. It's a pretty empty cupboard on the offensive side of the ball.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Old but Slow » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:25 am

There is some question about the viability of the zone blocking scheme as Cable saw it. For one thing, the system relies on cut blocking part of the time, and the rules have taken away much of that because of the damage to players' knees. We have a number of good athletes on the line, but they do not seem to operate well in Cable's scheme. The talent on our O line is not much different than a lot of teams, we have two first round picks and a couple of twos, so I doubt that we lack players.

I am hoping for a more power blocking approach from the next OL coach, as it seems to fit the players we have better. I don't have a link (I could find it) to the discussion on the Groz, Tom and whatever show, but the guest Ray Roberts had some very critical views of Cable and seemed to focus on Ifedi, who he sees as a very good player.

Most important at this point, though, is to make the hires. Get us new coaches ASAP as the build up to the combine and the draft will be critical. Interviews and the Rooney rule need to occur, but hopefully much of the planning and scheduling for these things are already done. I want them to have sussed out the next genius to be our OC with the idea that he will have the inside track to succeed Pete when he finally hangs it up.

This is going to be an important period in Seahawk history. We live in interesting times.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Zorn76 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 1:39 am

lol, well, ALL bets are just about off when it comes to this line now.

Expect a purge of the worthless projects (Fant) and any philosophy that involves turning ncaa DL into NFL OL.

Oh, and drafting guys in the 1st rd who played one yr of college, was universally panned as a reach, and a relatively poor choice considering other options that we skipped.

And yes, he sucks - Infedi.

Brown? I guess he stays maybe.
About the only one who's safe is Britt.
Beyond that, Blow it up.
Scrap whatever leftovers from Cable.
They're garbage in all likelihood anyway.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby obiken » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:30 am

Zorn76 wrote:lol, well, ALL bets are just about off when it comes to this line now.

Expect a purge of the worthless projects (Fant) and any philosophy that involves turning ncaa DL into NFL OL.

Oh, and drafting guys in the 1st rd who played one yr of college, was universally panned as a reach, and a relatively poor choice considering other options that we skipped.

And yes, he sucks - Infedi.

Brown? I guess he stays maybe.
About the only one who's safe is Britt.
Beyond that, Blow it up.
Scrap whatever leftovers from Cable.
They're garbage in all likelihood anyway.


We have no choice on keeping Brown and Britt, because the cost of replacement would break our cap. Ifedi has to go IMHO, but some will b**** about that call. So if you keep all 3 what real changes can be made on OL? You see, its a great trap, we have dug our own grave and now it could take years getting out of it. We need a new RB B A D.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby RiverDog » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:14 am

Zorn76 wrote:lol, well, ALL bets are just about off when it comes to this line now.

Expect a purge of the worthless projects (Fant) and any philosophy that involves turning ncaa DL into NFL OL.

Oh, and drafting guys in the 1st rd who played one yr of college, was universally panned as a reach, and a relatively poor choice considering other options that we skipped.

And yes, he sucks - Infedi.

Brown? I guess he stays maybe.
About the only one who's safe is Britt.
Beyond that, Blow it up.
Scrap whatever leftovers from Cable.
They're garbage in all likelihood anyway.


I guess it depends on how Pete sees our team. If he truly thinks we can compete for a SB next season then I'd imagine that any new OC would have to keep Ifedi and Fant. We simply don't have the depth to be letting multiple starters go unless we want to sacrifice next year as a rebuilding season, which might happen. What happens with guys like Ifedi might be a good indicator as to how Pete's going to approach next season.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Largent80 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:24 am

We haven't seen these guys in a power blocking scheme, not to say there will be one, but my guess is that if we are changing coaches that we will at least do something different.

If Britt is the only one truly safe (and he regressed badly) then the rest need more opportunity because he played 2 positions prior to center before sticking there.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:11 am

Zorn76 wrote:lol, well, ALL bets are just about off when it comes to this line now.

Expect a purge of the worthless projects (Fant) and any philosophy that involves turning ncaa DL into NFL OL.

Oh, and drafting guys in the 1st rd who played one yr of college, was universally panned as a reach, and a relatively poor choice considering other options that we skipped.

And yes, he sucks - Infedi.

Brown? I guess he stays maybe.
About the only one who's safe is Britt.
Beyond that, Blow it up.
Scrap whatever leftovers from Cable.
They're garbage in all likelihood anyway.


Don't think I agree Zorny, at least not about our players. I do believe we get a new scheme (and agree with ObS that the ZBS is being legislated out) but I think our biggest changes to the line have already taken place. Fant in particular I think is going nowhere.

And I still see Sweezey as one of Cable's few successes.
Last edited by c_hawkbob on Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Hawktawk » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:19 am

I was going to say I think Fant can play. Losing him was a key to the year as were injuries in general.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:22 am

I also think Fant might have been able to make it at LT, and LT only.
I looked at 2016 as being his College education as he learned the basics and 2017 as being like his rookie year in that he had a lot still to learn but he was still a bit of an unknown.
That's not where you want your OL to be, but it was what it was.

Regarding Ifedi, he was a rookie RT and even though he spent the first year at RG, it doesn't prepare a player to play a different position.
It looked from my couch as if he was thinking too much and not at the point of just reacting. Might it be because he had to re-learn his responsibilities and techniques as well as the type of block (power/zbs) required thus making him think for just that millisecond which gave the DE the advantage?
The last thing we want is to see more of our OL going elsewhere and having good careers because we didn't give them enough time to develop.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby RiverDog » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:21 am

NorthHawk wrote:The last thing we want is to see more of our OL going elsewhere and having good careers because we didn't give them enough time to develop.


I think that represents what seems to be a consensus of those that commented on this subject, including my own humble opinion.

But I do think that Zorny's "blow it up and start over" scenario is possible. As ObS put it, it'll be a very interesting offseason, perhaps one of those "fork in the road" moments.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Largent80 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:10 am

Whether we like it or not Seattle has invested heavy in the o line and unless something drastic changes it's hard to see them throwing away players.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby idhawkman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:16 am

I've read every post in this thread and others and something no one is talking about is having a whole new offensive scheme and how our existing players will fit into it.

E.g. Players we think are safe may not fit the new OC's scheme and may be expendable (Baldwin, Lockett, etc) and players who are iffy may become very stable in the new guy's scheme (Ifedi, Graham, etc).

Just because Bevel could get use out of some guys and not others doesn't mean it will be the same for the new guy. We might find out how to really use Graham and not just in the 4th quarter in the Red zone. Quicker developing plays and no ZBS may make some of our Oline standouts. This next year is going to be a discovery not only for our team but for other teams in the league (and our division) who won't know how to prepare for us over the off season.

Strap in and buckle up - its going to be a wild ride for a while.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Largent80 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:21 pm

idhawkman wrote:I've read every post in this thread and others and something no one is talking about is having a whole new offensive scheme and how our existing players will fit into it.

E.g. Players we think are safe may not fit the new OC's scheme and may be expendable (Baldwin, Lockett, etc) and players who are iffy may become very stable in the new guy's scheme (Ifedi, Graham, etc).

Just because Bevel could get use out of some guys and not others doesn't mean it will be the same for the new guy. We might find out how to really use Graham and not just in the 4th quarter in the Red zone. Quicker developing plays and no ZBS may make some of our Oline standouts. This next year is going to be a discovery not only for our team but for other teams in the league (and our division) who won't know how to prepare for us over the off season.

Strap in and buckle up - its going to be a wild ride for a while.


Whatever.

It's up to the new coaches. F.A.'s and the draft. It's not one thing, it all things.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Agent 86 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:56 am

Looks like Cable landed on his feet back in Oakland.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000905763/article/oakland-raiders-to-hire-tom-cable-as-oline-coach



And sounds like the Hawks first choice for OC is Eagles QB coach John DeFilippo. whose contract expires after this season.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/13/seahawks-may-embrace-a-college-style-offense/
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:13 am

One of the posters suggested Cable would be back in Oakland because Gruden was always gushing about him.

DeFilippo would be interesting. He would sure be a departure from Bevell.
Maybe that's what they are waiting for, the Eagles to be eliminated and signing him as OC.
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Re: This is what y'all really wanted to hear

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:23 pm

On the radio not less than an hour ago "they" said that Sark was the guy PC was holding out for. You would think that Sark would be in line to get some HC offers, maybe never again in the college ranks although never say never but in the pros Steve just get some more lucrative offers than just a lateral move from being an OC on one NFL team to being an OC on the Seahawks.

SO! What COULD be an extra carrot that would entice Sark to make such a move? How about it not being "lateral"? Tom Cable was just not the O-Line coach he also was the #2 Head Coach with a lot of input on whom they drafted on offense, not just O-Linemen either. Cable also had a lot to say about the running game, naming who the RB's were on the roster and what their roles were.

So, how about Sark is offered Doug Bevell's OC role but with some of the same power Cable had. Lets say OC AND Assistant Head Coach and final say AFTER Pete Carroll on how makes the roster on the offensive side of the ball.

edit; I did not mean to say that Sark could veto Pete, just the opposite in fact.

An added caveat, one to be earned but on the table none the less, but make Sark Pete's "heir apparent" should he decide to retire in the next 3 years AND Sark works out really well.

I am NOT Sarks biggest fan, I had a bad taste in my mouth at the way he left the U.W. and I was shocked that so many here, including the local press knew that he had a problem with alcohol and helped him cover it up. That did NOT help Steve and I would call it misplaced loyalty of those that decided to look the other way at the time. Having dealt with the problem it appears he is back on what had been at one time an upwards trajectory. He had been offered the Raider job BEFORE Lane Kiffin and had been wise enough to know he wasn't ready, YET.

Lane Kiffin on the other hand wasn't ready yet either but was NOT wise enough to accept that he should start his head coaching career a rung or two lower than the NotForLong league. Anyway, I remembered Sark taking that step back and I was grateful that he did turn around U-Dub football and left plenty of talent on the roster for the new HC to work with. Sark had hit a plateau with the Huskies anyway not to mention his battling an alcohol addition at the time. So, good judgement and Sark can go hand in hand and if that is the guy Pete wants to bring in I am sure he will be compensated much more than he is currently by the Falcons. The Seahawk franchise and the Falcon franchise has good relations and I am sure would work something out in mutual benefit if Sark is indeed the guy.
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