Seahawks Draft

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Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:48 am

The Seahawks have traded out of the first round more often than not and even though they are picking at #18 this year they almost have to trade to try and recoup a second and third given up in trades.

The running game needs to be redone, so if they get a couple of nice 2nd rounders from dealing #18 it just so happens that this class has a ton of good RB's and a few good OG's.

Isaiah Wynn from Georgia would be a guy I would like to see on the line at LG. And take your pick of a group of good RB's to fill another spot.

Any ideas?
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:43 am

Largent80 wrote:The Seahawks have traded out of the first round more often than not and even though they are picking at #18 this year they almost have to trade to try and recoup a second and third given up in trades.

The running game needs to be redone, so if they get a couple of nice 2nd rounders from dealing #18 it just so happens that this class has a ton of good RB's and a few good OG's.

Isaiah Wynn from Georgia would be a guy I would like to see on the line at LG. And take your pick of a group of good RB's to fill another spot.

Any ideas?


Even if it weren't for our habit of trading out of the first round, we are very unlikely to stay at #18. There's just too much of a gap between #18 and our next pick at #116. At the very least, you want the ability to snap up a good player that starts falling.

So looking for potential trading partners, Houston, the team we traded our #3 to, doesn't have a pick in either the 1st or the 2nd rounds but has two in the 3rd. The Chiefs don't pick until #54, they could want to get into the first round. Pats have two picks in the 2nd round but probably won't be picking in the first until #32, so their two #2's for our #18? We could see a couple of trades before we actually make a selection.

We have 4 picks in the 7th. Expect one of those to be a kicker.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:42 am

Yup, trading down is a given from my vantage point.
With the recent coaching changes and Pete's statements about having to run the ball better, I don't see how we don't go RB with one of the 1st 2 picks.
There are a couple of Guards that might fit, but they could also go early, too so who knows how they will look at it from a priority basis and what players are
left after the trading down and the selections we have added.
There's also Hernandez and Smith as pure Guards along with Wynn who has done well at Tackle in college but projected at G as potential early picks for us, but we don't yet know what the new coaches are looking for in O Linemen.
Do they prefer power over agility? Do they intend to continue with some form of hybrid ZBS? We'll see in a few months.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:00 am

There is also the possibility of player trades for picks.

Earl is going into his last year of his contract and his Cowboy antics may have stirred that drink. He would garner a first and probably a 4th.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby c_hawkbob » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:02 am

trading down doesn't necessarily mean trading out of the first round this year. We could conceivably trade back twice, fill out those 2nd and third rounds, and still be left with what we're accustomed to as a first round pick.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby politicalfootball » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:30 am

The draft is going to be the single most important time in the off-season. Just a handful of months from now. That's nothing to me it's coming fast. And we already have mock drafting. I hope our 1st pick is a RB. I don't worry about the fa pool . The draft is the best part of the off-season.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:31 am

Biggest needs are so obvious.

RB
OL
LB
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:03 am

Largent80 wrote:Biggest needs are so obvious.

RB
OL
LB


Depending on what happens in FA, we could have another position of need: Tight end. Both Graham and Luke are free agents, and Schott's offense supposedly features tight ends.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:31 am

c_hawkbob wrote:trading down doesn't necessarily mean trading out of the first round this year. We could conceivably trade back twice, fill out those 2nd and third rounds, and still be left with what we're accustomed to as a first round pick.


Especially this season when we're drafting higher than we have in the past 6 years. There's more slots between our spot and the end of the first round that what we're accustomed to.

Another possible trading partner is Cleveland. They have a ton of picks, including the #1 and #4 overall, 3 picks in the second round, one 3rd, two in the 4th, and two in the 5th, with most coming at or near the top of the round.

Buffalo has the #21 and #22 picks in the first and the #53 and #56 picks in the 2nd round. They may not have two players rated so close together within a couple of slots.

Anyway, that's just a couple of observations as to who is draft rich and might be willing to package a couple of their picks to move up to our #18.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:55 pm

I believe Cleveland owns the first picks in the 2nd and 3rd. Perfect partners for trade. Although we would be way better off with 2 second rounders to get that RB and OL.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Oly » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:46 pm

My thoughts on the draft:

1. I'd be shocked if the Hawks kept #18 unless someone at the top of the Hawks' draft board fell. I like what y'all are saying about Cleveland as a partner.

2. Top draft needs:
1a. RB
1b. OL
3. TE -- I think Graham is gone, and Schott relies on TEs a lot
4. FS -- I think JS has to be worried about Earl. Not the Cowboys thing as much as how age, injuries, and drive might lead to decline or even retirement. Earl's engine is always revved high, and I could see him burning out quickly. Because FS is so critical for Pete's scheme I think that they would JUMP on anyone they see as Earl's heir-apparent.
5. WR -- especially if they let P-Rich walk

Wild card: pass rushing DT. If they think McDowell can return, this goes lower. I If he can't return (gawd, I'm still pissed at that f'n idiot), I could see this being at the top of Pete's list because I doubt that they make a run at Sheldon Richardson due to cap reasons.

3. If JS lets the expensive FAs leave, as I think he will, he's going to be banking on at least 3 comp picks in the first four rounds next year. If he knows he has those picks next year, I could see him using those picks and trading UP this year, especially in the later rounds, if the right guy falls (like he did with Lockett).
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby RiverDog » Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:36 pm

Oly wrote:My thoughts on the draft:

1. I'd be shocked if the Hawks kept #18 unless someone at the top of the Hawks' draft board fell. I like what y'all are saying about Cleveland as a partner.

2. Top draft needs:
1a. RB
1b. OL
3. TE -- I think Graham is gone, and Schott relies on TEs a lot
4. FS -- I think JS has to be worried about Earl. Not the Cowboys thing as much as how age, injuries, and drive might lead to decline or even retirement. Earl's engine is always revved high, and I could see him burning out quickly. Because FS is so critical for Pete's scheme I think that they would JUMP on anyone they see as Earl's heir-apparent.
5. WR -- especially if they let P-Rich walk

Wild card: pass rushing DT. If they think McDowell can return, this goes lower. I If he can't return (gawd, I'm still pissed at that f'n idiot), I could see this being at the top of Pete's list because I doubt that they make a run at Sheldon Richardson due to cap reasons.

3. If JS lets the expensive FAs leave, as I think he will, he's going to be banking on at least 3 comp picks in the first four rounds next year. If he knows he has those picks next year, I could see him using those picks and trading UP this year, especially in the later rounds, if the right guy falls (like he did with Lockett).


Keep in mind that we have TWO experienced TE's that are free agents. If we let both those guys walk, that would elevate the TE position as an almost critical need when you consider that Schott's offense emphasizes the TE...and my understanding is that the draft is deep with TE's.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:28 am

We have needs all over the place and not enough picks to land them so something has to done. That something is trading down. It's going to be real interesting in the next few weeks to see what they do with F.A.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Oly » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:55 pm

RiverDog wrote:Keep in mind that we have TWO experienced TE's that are free agents. If we let both those guys walk, that would elevate the TE position as an almost critical need when you consider that Schott's offense emphasizes the TE...and my understanding is that the draft is deep with TE's.


I seriously thought of making TE priority 1c, but that seemed silly so I didn't. But I completely agree that Schott might see TE as just as critical as RB/OL.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:27 pm

What type of TE does Schottenheimer want - an H-Back, a blocking TE, or a Graham like player?
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby RiverDog » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:31 am

NorthHawk wrote:What type of TE does Schottenheimer want - an H-Back, a blocking TE, or a Graham like player?


Since Schottenheimer is a run-first guy, or at least he's being hired with that philosphy in mind, my assumption would be that he'll want a blocking tight end.

Neither Graham or Willson, both FA's, are what you would classify as a strong blocking TE, and supposedly TE's are pretty deep in this draft class, so I would look for us to pick one up in the mid rounds somewhere.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:12 am

Supposedly Vannett is a good blocker. So there's one TE.

Lots of good RB to choose from, Michel, Jones, Chubb, Penney (I really like him)....and many more.

Here are some TE's that are in the senior bowl.

Durham Smythe (TE, Notre Dame)
Notre Dame traditionally does a good job developing TE’s and require their guys to do some blocking. Seattle might draft a TE at some point and whoever it is will need to block. Mike Gesicki (Penn State), Tyler Conklin (Central Michigan) and Troy Fumagalli (Wisconsin) are also on the North roster.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:29 am

Also, regardless of how much draft capital we have used or whether it was Cable or not, we simply cannot ignore OL because of investments. Joeckel was exactly that. Subpar player missing games and costing WAY too much. Get Ifedi out of RT immediately and make him a backup.

Either that or get out a 55 gallon drum of Acme Turd Polish and go to work.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby RiverDog » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:20 am

Largent80 wrote:Also, regardless of how much draft capital we have used or whether it was Cable or not, we simply cannot ignore OL because of investments. Joeckel was exactly that. Subpar player missing games and costing WAY too much. Get Ifedi out of RT immediately and make him a backup.

Either that or get out a 55 gallon drum of Acme Turd Polish and go to work.


Not that they shouldn't, but my bet is that they don't cut bait with Ifedi just yet. He's a #1 draft choice and teams simply do not throw in the towel on those guys this early no matter how poorly they play. Additionally, we're not going to be able to backfill 3 starting positions in one season unless we have a heck of an offfseason in the OL department, something that hasn't happened with Pete and JS at the helm.

But I agree with you about the Joeckel experiment. Can you believe what Cable said about when we signed him?..."If you turn the film on of any guard in football at that spot, he was as good as any of them. And so, why wouldn’t you want that on your team? And I can probably make him better than he’s been. I’m confident. That’s not an arrogant thing. It’s just the way we teach and the way we develop." No frigging wonder we had such a problem finding and developing OL talent if our OL coach is talking that kind of chit.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:17 am

You can't give a player one year along the OL then discard him because he's not a solid player.
It takes a couple of years at one position for him to really show how good he can be.
Ifedi showed some ability. He also made a lot of rookie mistakes which most players along the OL do when playing a position for the first time. The exceptions being those who've had the advantage of a pro system and good coaching in college.
I'm hoping the new OL coach will bring a much simpler blocking philosophy so as to speed up the learning curve and get him to the point where he doesn't have to think about it, just play.
Then we will be able to see if he has a future here.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:21 am

But I agree with you about the Joeckel experiment. Can you believe what Cable said about when we signed him?..."If you turn the film on of any guard in football at that spot, he was as good as any of them. And so, why wouldn’t you want that on your team? And I can probably make him better than he’s been. I’m confident. That’s not an arrogant thing. It’s just the way we teach and the way we develop." No frigging wonder we had such a problem finding and developing OL talent if our OL coach is talking that kind of chit.


I wonder if Cable is one of those coaches that can make a bad player acceptable, but cannot make good players great.
He had something to work with in Okung, but he never became the player that he might have been. Was it early coaching in Seattle that stilted his growth or was his ceiling limited?
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:28 am

Largent80 wrote:Supposedly Vannett is a good blocker. So there's one TE.

Lots of good RB to choose from, Michel, Jones, Chubb, Penney (I really like him)....and many more.

Here are some TE's that are in the senior bowl.

Durham Smythe (TE, Notre Dame)
Notre Dame traditionally does a good job developing TE’s and require their guys to do some blocking. Seattle might draft a TE at some point and whoever it is will need to block. Mike Gesicki (Penn State), Tyler Conklin (Central Michigan) and Troy Fumagalli (Wisconsin) are also on the North roster.


I watched a bit of the Shrine Bowl on the weekend and there was a 270lb WR. The announcers thought he should be a TE, but it made me wonder if he might be a toy for Schott to use in the pass game. I have no idea if he can block, but if he can then it would be a bonus.

Edit:
Jordan Thomas Mississippi St. 6-5, 270

Another big guy is Nate Wozniak from Minnesota. 6-9 280
Here's what NFLDraftScout had to say about him before the season started:

"07/12/17 - 2017 Preseason John Mackey Award Watchlist: Nate Wozniak, Minnesota,...Wozniak saw his role expand in 2016, as he filled in admirably for Lingen. The 6-10 Indiana native started all 13 games and made 13 catches for 135 yards. He also blocked for an offense that rushed for 2,387 yards and 34 touchdowns, which was the most for the Maroon and Gold since 2005. Wozniak started 12 of 13 games in 2015 and caught eight passes for 75 yards. Minnesota's Matt Spaeth won the Mackey Award in 2006, while Maxx Williams was one of three finalists in 2014. - Minnesota Football"
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby politicalfootball » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:41 am

We have written I am a fan of Fournett I want someone like him in the draft
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:05 am

I don't see any reason to why Pocic couldn't be RT.
We have Fant as well.
If we could draft Wynn we would be set. I suppose that would depend on if Ifedi can play guard or get someone in FA.
He may have been a first round draft pick but so was Aaron Curry.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:28 am

Who knows, an actual good offensive line coach is now employed and he does have that drum of turd polish.

I kinda feel sorry for Gruden.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:34 am

Largent80 wrote:I don't see any reason to why Pocic couldn't be RT.
We have Fant as well.
If we could draft Wynn we would be set. I suppose that would depend on if Ifedi can play guard or get someone in FA.
He may have been a first round draft pick but so was Aaron Curry.


Typically RT's are very physical players. I'm not so sure Fant is in that mold and see him as a LT only - meaning not a Guard, either.
Pocic should add some muscle this off season so he might be able to play RT, but he will go through some real growing pains and have to learn the lessons
that Ifedi has already learned. Is that the direction you want to go for another year?
I don't, and think that Ifedi will take a step after this year with some good coaching and a little patience.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:57 am

There are some interesting players to watch in the Senior Bowl this week.
A number of Guards and TE's along with some RB's to check out.

Here is the roster:
https://www.seniorbowl.com/rosters-2018.php
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:10 am

Watching the East West Shrine game the only guy that really stood out was 5'11" 305 DT/NT named Poona Ford. Consistent pressure up the middle and a lot quicker than you'd expect for a guy built like a stump like that. Could see him easy as either our Nose or 3 technique. They played him at one gap and two gap and he looked disruptive as hell both ways.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:54 am

Don't forget about DL.

We already will be without Avril and probably Bennett.

Richardson is a FA. Reed and Jones were injured. Jordan just made a comeback from injury.

McDowell is probably never playing (who knows?)
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 am

Ifedi has tools, but take a look at his mental aspect. He lost it so many times after leading the league in penalties.

It takes confidence to play in this league and after 2 years he doesn't have it. Can Solari get it to him?...It remains to be seen but if we are judging from performance and experience he isn't getting it.

Take a look at his dreadful tape if you need verification. Also, I see no reason as to why Fant can't play guard.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:19 pm

Largent80 wrote:Ifedi has tools, but take a look at his mental aspect. He lost it so many times after leading the league in penalties.

It takes confidence to play in this league and after 2 years he doesn't have it. Can Solari get it to him?...It remains to be seen but if we are judging from performance and experience he isn't getting it.

Take a look at his dreadful tape if you need verification. Also, I see no reason as to why Fant can't play guard.


The mental aspect will come with confidence and confidence will come with stability playing at one position. It just takes time.
I mentioned in another thread Taylor Lewand who still loses it at times, but is a very good LT. It just took consistent coaching, reps, and time.
We don't want to become OL U for the rest of the league and if we give up on players after playing 2 different positions in 2 years we will be.

I don't think Fant can play Guard. Playing inside is a physical fight each and every play and I don't see that attitude from him and LT is generally the less physical of the 2 Tackles. It's rare that a basketball player transitions to the NFL, and rarer still that they end up on the OL as most of them fit as a pass catching TE. It might be a personal bias of mine clouding my judgement, but I just don't see it.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:37 pm

Why can't Fant play guard? LT is less physical than LG?...NO, NO, NO it isn't. I'm not getting your take, ever see a bull rush from the outside?. The guy has so limited experience I don't get how anyone can get a grip on what he can or cannot do.

Regarding Ifedi. I'll trust a true O-line coach in Solari to figure it out. After watching awesome Ram O-Lines for many years in the early 70's I don't think it's rocket science, Get in front of your man, dont blatently hold him and drive his ass backwards or into the ground. Ifedi doesn't do this enough. How many years for a #1 draft pick will it take?????

This evaluation is going on now thankfully that Bev and Cable are gone.

As a Seahawk fan, I'm ecstatic about the changes. I'm still not ecstatic about the players assembled over the last 3 years.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:56 pm

Why can't Fant play guard? LT is less physical than LG?...NO, NO, NO it isn't. I'm not getting your take, ever see a bull rush from the outside?. The guy has so limited experience I don't get how anyone can get a grip on what he can or cannot do.


Guard is a grind on every play and even moreso in the run game. LT has a requirement to be more athletic which Fant has a lot of and it's why a LT's feet are always mentioned. It's not just a power position and most teams are right side oriented so the run game on the right needs a more physical Tackle. I just don't see him as being a grinder which you need to be to play inside or RT.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:05 pm

Like I said before. Who are we...Seahawk fans..... to determine who can play where?

I'm a former O-Lineman all the way through college and I just don't see that certain players can't play in other spots.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:38 pm

Largent80 wrote:Like I said before. Who are we...Seahawk fans..... to determine who can play where?

I'm a former O-Lineman all the way through college and I just don't see that certain players can't play in other spots.


It's a forum where we give opinions.
It's what it's for.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Fans are one thing, coaches and players are another.

We can speculate all day but in the end our speculation is about as good as used toilet paper.

I'm a horse handicapper (and had some really good moments, and equally bad ones), so I use these rationales along with experience to spew my drivel.

My drivel is as good or better than yours.... :o
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:26 pm

We can speculate all day but in the end our speculation is about as good as used toilet paper.


We all spend our time reading each other's speculation. I doubt very many of us read used TP ...
Last edited by c_hawkbob on Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:05 am

Largent80 wrote:Fans are one thing, coaches and players are another.

We can speculate all day but in the end our speculation is about as good as used toilet paper.

I'm a horse handicapper (and had some really good moments, and equally bad ones), so I use these rationales along with experience to spew my drivel.

My drivel is as good or better than yours.... :o


The forum isn't a news entity.
It's for us fans to give our opinion and speculate on who and why among other things.
Our drivel is equal as it's all based on observation from where we sit and our experiences.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby Largent80 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:12 am

There is such a thing as not taking things so seriously. This is a message board with no faces attached. Lighten up Francis.
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Re: Seahawks Draft

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:47 am

Not now, nor ever been upset within this thread. It doesn't translate in the posts, though.
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