Earl Thomas

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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby burrrton » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:47 am

The Onion nailed it:

"Report: Dez Bryant Could Be Perfect Fit For NFL Team Lacking Locker-Room Cancer"
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:55 am

Sounds pretty true, and he wants to end up in the NFC East to play the Cowboys twice per year which would limit him to Philly, Washington, or the Giants.
In the end, I would think he will end up where another team wants him and not where he wants to go.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby c_hawkbob » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:15 am

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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby burrrton » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:01 am

c_hawkbob wrote:https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2018/4/15/17238878/cowboys-news-chatter-grows-about-cowboys-possibly-pursuing-earl-thomas

Heavy sigh ...


Like I said before, if they do this, they might as well see what they can get for Wagner and Wilson while they're at it- we'll be going nowhere until they're both far beyond their primes.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:26 am

burrrton wrote:Like I said before, if they do this, they might as well see what they can get for Wagner and Wilson while they're at it- we'll be going nowhere until they're both far beyond their primes.


I disagree. Teams can turn around damn quickly in the NFL as there's tons of rags-to-riches stories. It took Pete two years, 2010 and 2011, to get this team into a SB caliber club as IMO we were the best team in the conference at the end of the 2012 season.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:50 am

And we won with a very inexperienced QB and emerging leaders on Defense.
We now have some of the important pieces in place, so we will have to see if they can build enough around them to compete at a high level.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby burrrton » Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:21 pm

RiverDog wrote:I disagree. Teams can turn around damn quickly in the NFL as there's tons of rags-to-riches stories. It took Pete two years, 2010 and 2011, to get this team into a SB caliber club as IMO we were the best team in the conference at the end of the 2012 season.


Eh, you're probably right, but this would royally p*ss me off, not to be forgiven until we're hoisting the Lombardi again.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:57 pm

NorthHawk wrote:And we won with a very inexperienced QB and emerging leaders on Defense.
We now have some of the important pieces in place, so we will have to see if they can build enough around them to compete at a high level.


Even minus the LOB, Bennett, Avril, etc, the roster we currently have is better than it was in 2010 when Pete first took over, better than the 2011 team that went 7-9 and missed the playoffs.

I'm open to trading Earl. I believe in what Belichek says, that it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. We learned that lesson the hard way with Sherman.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby burrrton » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:09 pm

I believe in what Belichek says, that it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late. We learned that lesson the hard way with Sherman.


Is Earl just "a player", though?

Belichek has been smart enough to not bail on Brady- this feels like it would be bailing on Brady (and yeah, I know QB is a uniquely important position, but still).
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:29 pm

burrrton wrote:Is Earl just "a player", though?

Belichek has been smart enough to not bail on Brady- this feels like it would be bailing on Brady (and yeah, I know QB is a uniquely important position, but still).


Brady is almost unarguably the GOAT at the most important position on the field. As good as Earl is, you can't compare his status with us with that of Brady's status with the Pats. You might want to think of another example.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby burrrton » Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:59 pm

RiverDog wrote:You might want to think of another example.


Nah, don't think I will. I think Earl warrants the comparison.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:45 pm

If Earl goes, that will definitely be the end of an era. Earl was the foundation Pete's defense was built upon.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:33 am

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/re ... hp&ffid=gz

From the information contained in the article, our asking price is a 1st and a 3rd, and the Cowboys are hoping we lower that to a 2nd.

A 2nd round pick for a first ballot HOF'er would be an insult.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:15 am

How about 2 2nd round picks? 1 this year and another next year.
That would help them out and get us our 2nd round pick we lost last year in the Brown trade.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:07 am

NorthHawk wrote:How about 2 2nd round picks? 1 this year and another next year.
That would help them out and get us our 2nd round pick we lost last year in the Brown trade.


Probably acceptable.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:00 am

Thomas isn't showing up for the "voluntary" workouts and he's talked about holding out if he doesn't get an extension.
We'll see how it progresses when the mandatory workouts happen if he isn't extended/traded by then.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Oly » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:38 am

NorthHawk wrote:How about 2 2nd round picks? 1 this year and another next year.
That would help them out and get us our 2nd round pick we lost last year in the Brown trade.


I have a feeling this is the most likely outcome, but I think the Hawks end up getting the short end of the stick. ETIII is worth at least a first and a second. He's a HOF at the most important position for Pete's defense to work. If the Hawks embraced 2018 as a rebuilding year, then I could see an addition-by-salary-subtraction argument, but I don't want to waste the prime years from Wilson, Doug, Wagner, KJ, etc. I think the Hawks are probably thinking that their window could be 3-4 more years with that core, and so why give up Thomas for two 2nds?
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:21 am

That's the issue, isn't it?
He's still a very good player - maybe the best at his position, but he's played a lot of football if you include almost a full year of playoff games. He also gets injured more often now.
He now wants an extension and reportedly be the highest paid player at his position and has stated he will hold out if he isn't extended. He's also said he wants to play for the Cowboys before he retires.

So what does the team do? The FS market isn't that hot, and the team risks losing him to FA and get a late 3rd round pick next year. They could franchise him, but risk him not signing it and/or retiring where they
would get nothing for him. It also means the team plan would probably also be impacted because of the doubt. It's an important position, but if you don't know if he's going to play, how do you move forward?

Losing him would be a big hit to the overall talent on the team, but at some point big decisions have to be made.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:10 am

North Hawk stated the problem perfectly. Earl has all the leverage. If he were willing to go to a half dozen or so teams, then we'd be able to auction him to the highest bidder. But since there's only one place that he's willing to go to, it reduces his market value considerably.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:38 pm

RiverDog wrote:North Hawk stated the problem perfectly. Earl has all the leverage. If he were willing to go to a half dozen or so teams, then we'd be able to auction him to the highest bidder. But since there's only one place that he's willing to go to, it reduces his market value considerably.


How does he have all the leverage when we can use the franchise tag on one of the few players worth tagging?
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:47 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:How does he have all the leverage when we can use the franchise tag on one of the few players worth tagging?


Exactly (as I have argued before) he doesn't have all of the leverage. We can control him for at least 2 years (this year and next) and probably even tag him a second year if we wanted (it would be 20% higher the second tag). Next year would be like 11-12 mil while the year after would be 13-14 mil... We still have a lot of leverage in this.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:01 pm

He has enough money to retire if he doesn't think he's being paid enough.
Then we get nothing for him.
He has much of the leverage in this case.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:12 pm

NorthHawk wrote:He has enough money to retire if he doesn't think he's being paid enough.
Then we get nothing for him.
He has much of the leverage in this case.


You also have to remember that its not like it even needs to get to that point. Leverage isn't about what people will or won't do, but what they could do. The fact that the Hawks COULD F-tag him gives them leverage, especially when it comes to what the Hawks ask from other teams. The Cowboys can't just sit back and say 'We don't have to offer what the Hawks want because we can just sign him as a FA next year.' The Hawks have to show that they have the F-tag in their back pocket and are willing to use it. Even with ET it gives them leverage. I would say call his bluff. He would be walking away from $40 mil guaranteed and probably $75 million overall. If I'm a betting man I'm betting that he doesn't walk away from that. He might walk away and you missed out on getting a 2nd round pick, but by holding onto him you either get him for 1-3 more years, get a 3rd if he becomes a FA, or get those 2 2nds or a 1st for him via a trade. The Hawks still have a lot of leverage in this.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:47 pm

It's a risk/reward situation and he's already talked about retirement outside of the broken leg when he said (paraphrasing) he didn't think it was worth the risk if he didn't get a long term contract.
It's also risk/reward for the team whereby they can sign him to an extension like they did with Kam and Sherman, or they could get 2 picks if they trade him.
It's a serious amount of talent to lose if they trade him, but it's worse if he decides it's not in his interest to play.
He holds a lot of leverage.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:24 pm

NorthHawk wrote:He has enough money to retire if he doesn't think he's being paid enough.
Then we get nothing for him.
He has much of the leverage in this case.


You're calling the ability to retire during his prime earning years effectively ending his career leverage? That is not leverage. That is a player being stupid and stubborn. If he wants to do that, I say make him. That will cost him millions of dollars and effectively end his career. Two years or more out of football even with good home training is not football. Sorry, that isn't leverage. That's a guy willing to end his career not to play here. I doubt Earl does that. We give him a good extension, he'll take it.

We've already seen that "plenty of money" does not equate to keeping it post-career. Why would he give up a 40 million plus extension just to be out of Seattle? I doubt that.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:38 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:How does he have all the leverage when we can use the franchise tag on one of the few players worth tagging?


It seems apparent that Earl wants out. He's already not showing up for voluntary workouts and there's talk that he might hold out if he doesn't get an extension or we acceed to his trade demands. This could get ugly, stain a relationship between our franchise and one of the all time greatest Hawks players. We slap the FT on him and he could take it as a slap in the face. I don't think it's a good option.

The way I see it is that we have two viable options: Give him an extension if he's genuinely committed to playing for us another 3-4 years or trade him.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:22 pm

RiverDog wrote:
It seems apparent that Earl wants out. He's already not showing up for voluntary workouts and there's talk that he might hold out if he doesn't get an extension or we acceed to his trade demands. This could get ugly, stain a relationship between our franchise and one of the all time greatest Hawks players. We slap the FT on him and he could take it as a slap in the face. I don't think it's a good option.

The way I see it is that we have two viable options: Give him an extension if he's genuinely committed to playing for us another 3-4 years or trade him.


I don’t think using the F-Tag is the best option, but it is an option. Also, we are talking about leverage here, not what we will or won’t do. The F-Tag may not be an attractive option to the fans, it may have the potential to cause a rift between us and ET, and could end with him retiring instead of signing but that’s only if we use it. The leverage lies in the fact that we COULD use it. That’s all we need to keep the cowboys from feeling like they can wait and get him as a FA. It’s the same thing ET has done with his threat to hold out- it’s a leverage tactic. He has some leverage in that he can hold out... it’s not the best option, it might cause a rift between him and the Hawks, but it gives him some leverage. It’s the exact same idea.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:13 am

mykc14 wrote:I don’t think using the F-Tag is the best option, but it is an option. Also, we are talking about leverage here, not what we will or won’t do. The F-Tag may not be an attractive option to the fans, it may have the potential to cause a rift between us and ET, and could end with him retiring instead of signing but that’s only if we use it. The leverage lies in the fact that we COULD use it. That’s all we need to keep the cowboys from feeling like they can wait and get him as a FA. It’s the same thing ET has done with his threat to hold out- it’s a leverage tactic. He has some leverage in that he can hold out... it’s not the best option, it might cause a rift between him and the Hawks, but it gives him some leverage. It’s the exact same idea.


The F-tag is the NFL's equivalent to the nuclear option. It's only effective if the other side thinks that we might use it. Besides, it would only come into play next season when his contract is up. If we're going to trade Earl, the ideal time to do it is this season. We wait another year and who knows, maybe he goes down with a career threatening injury ala Sherman.

So I say that we either poop or get off the pot. Either trade Earl now or sign him to a 3-4 year extension. This is not something we want left hanging in limbo for another year.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:50 am

RiverDog wrote:
The F-tag is the NFL's equivalent to the nuclear option. It's only effective if the other side thinks that we might use it. Besides, it would only come into play next season when his contract is up. If we're going to trade Earl, the ideal time to do it is this season. We wait another year and who knows, maybe he goes down with a career threatening injury ala Sherman.

So I say that we either poop or get off the pot. Either trade Earl now or sign him to a 3-4 year extension. This is not something we want left hanging in limbo for another year.


I agree with this, to a certain extent. Yes its a nuclear option, but it is an option that gives us leverage, which is why the other side needs to think you will use it. As long as they think you will use it it gives you leverage. At the same time you don't give him away if you can't resign him just to get off the pot (I am assuming that in this scenario getting off of the pot means trading him). If you aren't getting the offer you want or close to what you want i.e. I'm asking for a 1 and 3 (widely reported) and the best offer is a 3 and 5 then it might be better to wait. If he plays even close to his normal level then you are getting a 3rd at worst next year. Of course he might get hurt, but that might happen if we signed him to an extension. Him getting hurt can't play too much into this decision process because no matter what you choose he could get hurt. He could also have another All-Pro season and a team like the Cowboys has horrible Safety play and are finally willing to up their price. All kinds of 'what if's' can play into this, but at the end of the day the F-Tag gives the Hawks leverage (and that's all I'm really arguing).
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:23 am

Not much leverage if he says it's not worth it without an extension and retires.
He has a lot of leverage in that single act, and we can either re-sign him or trade him if we want to get anything from him.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby burrrton » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:38 am

NorthHawk wrote:Not much leverage if he says it's not worth it without an extension and retires.
He has a lot of leverage in that single act, and we can either re-sign him or trade him if we want to get anything from him.


Well... if a willingness to earn $0 playing football can be considered leverage, there is literally no player in the league that doesn't have that edge.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:10 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Not much leverage if he says it's not worth it without an extension and retires.
He has a lot of leverage in that single act, and we can either re-sign him or trade him if we want to get anything from him.


I get that he can retire, but that’s not until next year. The threat of the F-Tag exists this year, which is why it adds leverage now. Next year he could retire, but that’s a risk you take next year. The worst case in this scenario is that he played his whole career for the Hawks and retires, the Hawks are out a 3rd rounder. The upside is you control him for at least one more season.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:23 pm

He's already threatened to hold out and said he wouldn't play without an extension.
He's painted himself into a bit of a corner by saying that, but he's also said he could walk away from Football.
That means he might not play here again.
I hope it works out and he stays, but the team has to move forward with certainty and this is the best chance to either extend him or trade him and if he's to be believed, it has to be this year.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:07 pm

ET said today he has no plans to hold out and will be in camp as expected.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:43 pm

NorthHawk wrote:ET said today he has no plans to hold out and will be in camp as expected.


That’s good!
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:58 pm

ET's a pro. I'd like to extend him and see him retire a Seahawk, though I know it is unlikely.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:33 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:ET's a pro. I'd like to extend him and see him retire a Seahawk, though I know it is unlikely.


Still as likely as not.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Zorn76 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:05 pm

Two 2nd rounders I'd take for Thomas, all things considered.
With RW's next deal not too far down the road, I don't think we give a 'thank you' deal to ET.
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