Earl Thomas

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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby burrrton » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:22 am

Like it or not, our Defense is going through a transition or rebuild, whatever you call it.


Sure, but you're assuming letting go of *the* cornerpiece of that defense while he's in his prime is a good way to go about doing that.

Yeah, he's going to cost more with the extension, but he's not going to be getting Alex Smith money (!), just (probably) a few million more than now.

Getting rid of him, especially over that trivial a difference, turns our "rebuild/reload" into a "blow it up and start over", something we shouldn't even consider when we have a franchise QB entering his prime.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby mykc14 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:33 am

burrrton wrote:
Sure, but you're assuming letting go of *the* cornerpiece of that defense while he's in his prime is a good way to go about doing that.

Yeah, he's going to cost more with the extension, but he's not going to be getting Alex Smith money (!), just (probably) a few million more than now.

Getting rid of him, especially over that trivial a difference, turns our "rebuild/reload" into a "blow it up and start over", something we shouldn't even consider when we have a franchise QB entering his prime.


Exactly. He has a cap hit of 10.4 million next year. Extending him at 13-14 mil a year would mean that his cap hit would barely go up and could possible go down.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:49 am

burrrton wrote:Like it or not, our Defense is going through a transition or rebuild, whatever you call it.

Sure, but you're assuming letting go of *the* cornerpiece of that defense while he's in his prime is a good way to go about doing that.

Yeah, he's going to cost more with the extension, but he's not going to be getting Alex Smith money (!), just (probably) a few million more than now.

Getting rid of him, especially over that trivial a difference, turns our "rebuild/reload" into a "blow it up and start over", something we shouldn't even consider when we have a franchise QB entering his prime.


I'm not assuming anything.
I'm simply stating that it might be part of the transition or maybe part of Pete's overall plan. 2/3 of the LoB is gone at this point - it may end up being just Kam after Sherm heals, but it's also possible Sherm never plays again.
Pete may think the pieces are mostly here for a slightly different style of Defense that although similar in philosophy can do well without an ET type of Safety.
ET is a once in a generation talent for the Defense that we know however with our Cap situation and his demand for a long term deal, it's possible he prices himself out of our ability to pay. Plans have to be made for that possibility as
it is real.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby burrrton » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:17 am

I'm simply stating that it might be part of the transition or maybe part of Pete's overall plan.


It *might* be, but it doesn't make a lot of sense given what we currently know. Earl will get a raise, but the additional cap hit will likely be minimal, and you're not helping a rebuild by dumping one of the cornerstones you need to do so.

it's possible he prices himself out of our ability to pay.


Admittedly, that's possible, but that's only likely if he goes off the rails demanding QB-type money instead of FS-type money.

I'll also grant you that he may view himself as more important to the team than the QB, but given who our QB is and the type of guy I've come to think Earl is, I have trouble believing that to be likely, either.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:22 am

Maybe.
We'll see how it goes.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby burrrton » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:39 am

NorthHawk wrote:We'll see how it goes.


For sure.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:23 pm

Earl appears to be able to still play at a high level which would suggest he should be extended with a raise. But he will be 29 soon and he is one play away from this. With the Hawks up against the cap and lacking draft picks with multiple free agents there is no such thing as a cap friendly deal since he is under contract for 2018.

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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Zorn76 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:25 pm

lol, Jesus.

If Earl gets a CAP FRIENDLY DEAL, then I'm l all for keeping him. Get it?

IF HE HOLDS OUT AND IS ATTEMPTING TO BREAK THE BANK IN THE PROCESS...then he can go screw himself.

Is that clear enough? smh.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:47 pm

Earl already HAS a deal for this year.

Holding the team hostage while asking for a 3rd contract is a different way of looking at things with age and injuries figured in. The Hawks are short on draft picks as well so this isn't a good time for either party to be in need.

It's not as simple as you project Zorny.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:54 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Like it or not, our Defense is going through a transition or rebuild, whatever you call it.


Falling apart is not a transition. If Earl and Sherm are done, the defense is mostly done.

They have to change the salary structure from heavy Defense to a more balanced spending formula and we will lose some real good players from injury and FA, too.


They have to make some adjustments, but they don't need balance. They need to keep their best players like every team does. That costs money.

Mike Bennett suggested he might not be back next year citing the team is getting younger. I don't know if JS or PC suggested something or if he's just reading the tea leaves but there are others.


Bennett is getting old and slowing down. They'll assess what he still has in the tank.

Sheldon Richardson wants to test the FA market. I don't think we have the money for him.


Sheldon didn't have the same impact as losing Kam. He can walk if we can't get him for a cap friendly deal. He's good, but not irreplaceable like Sherm or Earl.

Kam and Cliff won't be playing for us if at all.


Kam shouldn't have been extended. Shows Pete and John can't make hard decisions Belichick. They need to fix that. Avril needs to think of his long-term health.

Sherman might not play much and might not be the player he was. Maybe he'll surprise us all and not miss a beat, but it's a tough injury to come back fully from in one off season.


Not from I recall. Achilles tendon injuries are fairly quick and easy as far as injuries go. It isn't a knee or broken leg.

There's talk of moving KJ Wright because of salary cap and him maybe losing a step.


KJ is good, but replaceable, especially with Norton Jr. back. We find Norton Jr. a decent talent, he'll make them a great LB.

That's almost half the Defense that's in doubt and the combination of skills and desire that these guys had will be hard to find again, so I think ET might be expendable in a
rebuilding year or two years. It started last year with all of the DB's selected in the draft and maybe some of those guys can take the next step, but nobody will ever be the combination
of ET and Kam at Safety along with Sherman at CB. With a slightly different formula, ET might be expendable in Pete's mind.


This is not a rebuild. You miss the playoffs by a game partly because a kicker was so bad he cost you a couple of games, you don't rebuild. This team is still very much in contention. They need some moderate adjustments.

Pass rusher will have to be high on the Defensive list in the Off Season. Someone will have to create pressure up front for our DBs to play their best considering the loss of talent in the backfield.


Frank Clark is becoming quite a good pass rusher. We do need more pass rush help. That's where they should focus. Pass rush help and the other half of Earl and Sherm. And another good SLB.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:03 pm

^ That's a hard post to read, but I'll just say the Hawks have focused on run stopping DT's and we really need one that can get a pass rush going. If that happens were gold. Richardson to me was a dissapointment after what they gave up for him. He can walk.

Those discounting Bennett are delusional. He had plantar faciitis and played through it and recorded almost 9 sacks!!!

Iv'e had that and I had trouble walking let alone playing football at DE in the NFL.

Fans just sometimes expect too much.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:16 pm

I think you meant on defense. I would take Russell over Thomas.


I said what I meant, and meant what I said.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Zorn76 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:21 pm

I'm aware that he has a year left...the point is, why is he even so much as threatening a hold out now?
OK, Clearly he isn't gonna be happy about playing the end of his existing deal out. He wants to get another deal to finish out his career where it began.

All good, as long as it's a deal that makes sense for Both sides. But for as effective a player as he still is, to sit here and chalk him up as if he's gonna stay in a time warp like it's 2013 on a loop is absurd. And that's the sentiment I disagree with w others here. When somebody doesn't go w the company line (i.e. me in this example), they're looked upon as if they're nuts for even suggesting an alternative. To each their own.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:26 pm

Because he's still playing at a level that is arguably the best free safety in the game? When you got something to sell, you sell it at or as close to at its peak as you can... did everybody miss what that pass defense was with and without Thomas two seasons ago? He is the lynchpin for that defensive backfield. Without him it simply doesn't function at a high level.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:31 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Because he's still playing at a level that is arguably the best free safety in the game? When you got something to sell, you sell it at or as close to at its peak as you can... did everybody miss what that pass defense was with and without Thomas two seasons ago? He is the lynchpin for that defensive backfield. Without him it simply doesn't function at a high level.


2 seasons ago is not THIS season or the next few which there are zero guarantees. Dude is at the end of his career regardless of anything anyone says. He's still good but, lets face it, it's goin down.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:37 pm

I think he has 3 or 4 good years left where he plays at a Pro Bowl or All Pro level, but in the past he has wanted to be the highest paid S in the league.
Eric Berry's contract is 6 years 78 million with a 20 million signing bonus and 40 million guaranteed. His average salary is 13 million.
How much more would ET want? 15 million/year average and 45 million guaranteed, maybe? It's just a guess, but if he still wants to be the highest paid Safety in the league it will be in that area.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby burrrton » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:46 pm

Dude is at the end of his career regardless of anything anyone says.


He's 28 years old, and you think that's... "at the *end* of his career"??

He's younger than Eric Berry for Pete's sake.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:19 pm

He's about 4 months younger than Berry so really they're practically the same age.
Berry: Dec 29th, 1988
Thomas: May 7th 1989
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby burrrton » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:31 pm

NorthHawk wrote:He's about 4 months younger than Berry so really they're practically the same age.
Berry: Dec 29th, 1988
Thomas: May 7th 1989


Thanks for confirming.

Look, I don't really disagree all that strongly with anyone (I agree if his contract demands are bananas we can't re-sign, etc)- I just think we're vastly underestimating how much of a career he has left, how much he means to this team, especially when trying to re-tool/rebuild, and so on.

I'll quit arguing. I can't wait until the offseason is over.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:09 pm

Nothing I can do about it so it's just talk from my perspective.
I just wonder if when ET went down and the Defense suffered, will PC now try to create a Defense that isn't as reliant on one player and at the same time get a good draft pick and lessen the Cap hit.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:33 pm

ET^ proved he was the best player in that secondary by getting hurt last december and watching the pass defense crater. Still though, hes missed time 2 years in a row now, the hamstring thing seems to be recurring. Based on what has happened with other high priced defensive stars Im leery. If only we had a crystal ball.

If I could get a first and second and open up the cap I do it unless he is willing to be reasonable.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:20 pm

Look at the players we had to come in when he went out. Those guys are long gone and even out of football.

Nobody here discounts what Earl is but look at the teams needs, salary cap and Free agents before going crazy about a guy we have under contract this next year.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:19 am

2 seasons ago is not THIS season or the next few which there are zero guarantees. Dude is at the end of his career regardless of anything anyone says. He's still good but, lets face it, it's goin down


I suppose if you can give me actual examples of a falloff in play, changing that, I'll be willing to listen, since that hasn't happened, I'll stick with what has occurred week in and week out for pretty much the entirety of his HOF career, you're welcome to speculate.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:38 am

Just out of curiosity, why all the threads, asking what people would do, only to start trashing them if they wouldn't do what you would? Seems kind of silly to me.... you're never going to get everyone, to agree with you, life don't work that way.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:22 am

I will say this, there are many examples of players supposedly "inn their prime" who got big extensions and never played up to those contracts, there are many examples but the most prominent Seahawk one is S.A.

Mariners paid Hernandez and he's sputtering like a Yugo.

Lynch, Bennett and Chancellor are more recent Hawk versions of this. So there is never any guarantee when the sport takes it's toll on the body.

It's rolling the dice basically.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:27 am

HC I completely agree with your analysis of ET's play. At this point he's lost absolutely nothing and is an instinctive fearless striker as well as emotional leader of the team. But he launches so hard and he's not a big guy it's got to catch up someday, much sooner than a guy who goes for the ankles instead of going head on with Gronk at full speed.

As I say, I wish we had a crystal ball.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:48 pm

Certainly could, but that's a roll of the dice to. Plenty of players been let go, only to play for years, and years at HOF level. John Lynch comes IMMEDIATELY to mind, Ed Reed also played at a HOF level for years after rumblings about him being to old, Darren Woodsen.... there's a LOT more... but there's three, all of them playing either their entire career, or large chunk at guess what position? Truth is, unless speed disappears, free safeties don't get abused drastically the same way a LB or RB does, there's a reason free safeties aren't leading their teams in tackles, and despite the ferocity with which Earl plays, I haven't seen a loss of speed, injury issues, or loss of desire to play.

Pretending like a free safety ( not an in the box safety like Kam) is to beat up to be what he was at the age of 29 shows a complete lack of understanding of the position, the rigors of the position, and the type of abuse they receive. No reason to believe ET can't play at this level until at least his mid thirties if the desire and speed is still there. Reed played until what 37, 38? And walked away when teams were still calling, I've seen nothing that makes me believe Earl can't be the same
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:53 pm

Largent80 wrote:I will say this, there are many examples of players supposedly "inn their prime" who got big extensions and never played up to those contracts, there are many examples but the most prominent Seahawk one is S.A.

Mariners paid Hernandez and he's sputtering like a Yugo.

Lynch, Bennett and Chancellor are more recent Hawk versions of this. So there is never any guarantee when the sport takes it's toll on the body.

It's rolling the dice basically.


Which one of those plays free safety in the NFL? None is it? LMAO, you busy complaining about "this year" and you're using examples of a player from a different sport that throws a ball, and players that get smashed on every play as "examples"... you for real?
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:21 pm

No, I guess I'm not for real, thanks for being classy.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:44 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Certainly could, but that's a roll of the dice to. Plenty of players been let go, only to play for years, and years at HOF level. John Lynch comes IMMEDIATELY to mind, Ed Reed also played at a HOF level for years after rumblings about him being to old, Darren Woodsen.... there's a LOT more... but there's three, all of them playing either their entire career, or large chunk at guess what position? Truth is, unless speed disappears, free safeties don't get abused drastically the same way a LB or RB does, there's a reason free safeties aren't leading their teams in tackles, and despite the ferocity with which Earl plays, I haven't seen a loss of speed, injury issues, or loss of desire to play.

Pretending like a free safety ( not an in the box safety like Kam) is to beat up to be what he was at the age of 29 shows a complete lack of understanding of the position, the rigors of the position, and the type of abuse they receive. No reason to believe ET can't play at this level until at least his mid thirties if the desire and speed is still there. Reed played until what 37, 38? And walked away when teams were still calling, I've seen nothing that makes me believe Earl can't be the same


I've been slowly migrating to this position. The nature of the position, ie free safety, in particular the way Pete's defense employs the free safety, kinda like a center fielder, instincts and experience are at a preminum, and Earl has that in spades. The only thing that would worry me is if he loses a step as Earl's biggest physical attribute is his ability to cover sideline to sideline. But I think that is easily trumped by the mental part of his game.

So unless he asks for something completely outrageous, which if that were the case he'd be wanting out anyway as he has to know that no one else is going to pay that much, I say extend him. He's one of the top 3-4 defensive players in the game.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:43 pm

He probably still wants to be the highest paid Safety so it would mean more than Berry who got a 6 year 72 million contract with a 20 million signing bonus and 40 million guaranteed.
Maybe he would go for a shorter contract length but it's still probably 13 million per year at least with more than 40 million guaranteed.

I'm not sure it can work with our current Cap situation this year and he's threatening to hold out if he doesn't get an extension.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:36 am

I can find 10m a year for a part time TE... pretty easily.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:49 am

Largent80 wrote:No, I guess I'm not for real, thanks for being classy.


Lmfao... I'm sure that was far less classy than the Wayne's world comment.... you don't like a barb or two thrown you're way, I recommend not dishing them out when somebody disagrees with you.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby idhawkman » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:22 am

Teams are going younger to get the lower salaries and therefore the league is getting much younger. I think we let him playout his current contract and see if he meshes with the new SS and RCB (if Sherm can't go).

I'd also be scouting for his replacment this year and next. Hopefully we can get his replacement this year so he can have a year of learning under ET but if that don't happen then next year.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:32 am

Party on Garth
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby HumanCockroach » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:18 pm

Party on Helen Keller.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby obiken » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:21 am

idhawkman wrote:Teams are going younger to get the lower salaries and therefore the league is getting much younger. I think we let him playout his current contract and see if he meshes with the new SS and RCB (if Sherm can't go).

I'd also be scouting for his replacment this year and next. Hopefully we can get his replacement this year so he can have a year of learning under ET but if that don't happen then next year.



I made him 210lbs,20 years old, 6ft 2, I bumped Ifeti Up to 99 strength from 82. EA Sports its in the game!! Madden 2018!
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby burrrton » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:06 pm

The "trade him" crowd gets some more company: Brady Henderson predicts the Hawks will shop Earl this offseason.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/32 ... ms#NFC%20W (might have to scroll down to NFCW- ESPN likes to override navigation).
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby RiverDog » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:24 am

burrrton wrote:The "trade him" crowd gets some more company: Brady Henderson predicts the Hawks will shop Earl this offseason.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/page/32 ... ms#NFC%20W (might have to scroll down to NFCW- ESPN likes to override navigation).


I take those stories with a grain of salt. He's not quoting any sources, just expressing an opinion that in all likelihood is influenced by the tendoncy of sports writers to author eye popping articles in order to attract more readers.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby Largent80 » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:29 am

I would hardly call the article eye popping since we have been talking about this for weeks.

Especially since ET seems to be making subliminal messages.
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