Earl Thomas

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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:50 pm

I don't think anyone is under the illusion that losing ET wouldn't hurt.
Rather, many of us are facing reality that he might be dealt.
JS hasn't talked to his people since the Combine and he's in the last year of his contract.
The usual pattern is to begin renegotiations early and work it out before the season starts.
It may be that they had a general agreement on salary range to be finalized later, but it may also be a sign that they don't expect him to be here for the start of the season.
So we are discussing the possibilities of him being gone.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:15 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:
A "Thank You" deal to the guy that makes the defense work? Extending one of the best players at his position in the league with elite speed that stops QBs from throwing deep is not a "Thank you" deal.

You guys that think Earl is just some guy are going to be in for a rude awakening when you see how much this defense will suck without him. We could lose Bobby before Earl. The only guy more valuable than Earl is a high quality pass rusher and Sherm, but Sherm is gone. Now if Earl goes, this defense is going to get lit up.


I agree with most of what you just said except the whole losing Bobby being preferable to lo losing Earl thing.

Any way you look at our defense is going to be drastically different that we're used to.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:10 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I don't think anyone is under the illusion that losing ET wouldn't hurt.
Rather, many of us are facing reality that he might be dealt.
JS hasn't talked to his people since the Combine and he's in the last year of his contract.
The usual pattern is to begin renegotiations early and work it out before the season starts.
It may be that they had a general agreement on salary range to be finalized later, but it may also be a sign that they don't expect him to be here for the start of the season.
So we are discussing the possibilities of him being gone.



My thoughts exactly.

I've always said that the ball is in Earl's court. If he wants an extension and is fully committed to playing here another 3-4 years, then fine, make him the highest paid free safety in the game. Even if we're rebuilding and don't expect to compete for a year or two, he'd still be invaluable to our young defense...and it might not be that long of a rebuild, or no 'rebuild' at all.

But that's not the feeling I'm getting from Earl. I get the sense that he wants out.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby HumanCockroach » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:29 pm

Who the funk believes not showing up to voluntary workouts means a player wants out? Anyone ever heard of Walter Jones? Not showing up because of desire for a new contract, and wanting out of Seattle, ain't the same thing.

Lmfao
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:54 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Who the funk believes not showing up to voluntary workouts means a player wants out? Anyone ever heard of Walter Jones? Not showing up because of desire for a new contract, and wanting out of Seattle, ain't the same thing.

Lmfao


Walter Jones never went to another team's coach and said "Come and get me."

Lmfao.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Hawktawk » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:43 am

HumanCockroach wrote:Who the funk believes not showing up to voluntary workouts means a player wants out? Anyone ever heard of Walter Jones? Not showing up because of desire for a new contract, and wanting out of Seattle, ain't the same thing.

Lmfao

I agree with this^^^ Every great player "wants out" or skips workouts until they get their deal then they "always wanted to be here" with very few exceptions.

As for WJ lets remember his last deal was a disaster as he wound up hurt and taking a roster spot without playing for quite a while at the end of his career. Chancellor is looking like the same situation now.

One thing that separates the Patriots from everyone else has been their willingness to trade very good to great players in their prime for maximum value and reload rather than paying aging stars with a short time left.
I don't know if this defines Thomas or not and I bet nobody else does either.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby idhawkman » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:01 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:How does he have all the leverage when we can use the franchise tag on one of the few players worth tagging?

Not only that but since when does a player get to veto a trade? If we trade him to Buffalo, he's traded.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:53 am

But if he doesn't want to go to the team, he won't sign a contract with them and no team will trade for a player after giving up a good draft pick without knowing the player will sign.
That is, unless they intend to trade him to get another player they really want or a better draft pick than they gave up. But that's a big gamble and has rarely happened if at all.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:56 am

Hawktawk wrote:Every great player "wants out" or skips workouts until they get their deal then they "always wanted to be here" with very few exceptions.

As for WJ lets remember his last deal was a disaster as he wound up hurt and taking a roster spot without playing for quite a while at the end of his career. Chancellor is looking like the same situation now.

One thing that separates the Patriots from everyone else has been their willingness to trade very good to great players in their prime for maximum value and reload rather than paying aging stars with a short time left.
I don't know if this defines Thomas or not and I bet nobody else does either.


Every great player skips workouts until their deal gets done? I can think of scores of active players who have never skipped workouts in response to a contract dispute: Tom Brady, Julio Jones, JJ Watt, Richard Sherman, Aaron Rodgers...it is not a common practice. And keep in mind that Earl's skipping voluntary workouts isn't the only evidence we have of his wanting out.

But you're right about the Patriots, which is one of the keys to their success.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:49 pm

Earl at this point could use some rest. As long as he doesn't hold out too long, he'll be fine.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:07 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Earl at this point could use some rest. As long as he doesn't hold out too long, he'll be fine.


The concern isn't that he's not getting enough work. The concern is whether or not by skipping the voluntaries is he sending a signal that he's not happy.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:04 pm

RiverDog wrote:The concern isn't that he's not getting enough work. The concern is whether or not by skipping the voluntaries is he sending a signal that he's not happy.


We'll know when mandatory workouts start.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby obiken » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:15 pm

The concern is whether or not by skipping the voluntaries is he sending a signal that he's not happy.

I am getting sick of this unhappy crap! Was I always happy as a Correctional Officer? I dont freeking thinks so! I am now, because I am retired! They get paid millions to play a kids game, suck it up buttercups!
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sun Apr 22, 2018 8:37 pm

Kiss Earl goodbye. he will be traded on draft day.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Oly » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:31 am

Old but Slow wrote:Jax ... are on track for a SB run.


A concept tailor-made for Ripley's "Believe It or Not."
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Apr 23, 2018 7:36 am

obiken wrote:The concern is whether or not by skipping the voluntaries is he sending a signal that he's not happy.
I am getting sick of this unhappy crap! Was I always happy as a Correctional Officer? I dont freeking thinks so! I am now, because I am retired! They get paid millions to play a kids game, suck it up buttercups!


I don't know your financial situation, but ET has a lot of options for what to do with his money and reportedly has the ability to walk away from more if he doesn't like the terms of the contract.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Mon Apr 23, 2018 11:21 am

NorthHawk wrote:I don't know your financial situation, but ET has a lot of options for what to do with his money and reportedly has the ability to walk away from more if he doesn't like the terms of the contract.


Not only that, but in terms of his position, Earl is the 500 pound gorilla. Not many of us can claim that kind of superiority in their field.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:32 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I don't know your financial situation, but ET has a lot of options for what to do with his money and reportedly has the ability to walk away from more if he doesn't like the terms of the contract.


Of course he could, but again call his bluff. By all reports the man lives, eats, drinks, breathes and sleeps football. He would be walking away from something he loves and is getting paid a ton to do (he would be walking away from over 75 million dollars). Could he, yes, but I would be very surprised if he did.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Apr 23, 2018 1:27 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if he walked given the right circumstances. Earl is his own man and I think pride or risk/reward is a big factor for him.
In any event, we'll know in a few days if they trade him or not.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:04 am

Old but Slow wrote:The problem with a draft day trade is that the team they trade with will need to have an agreement in place about a contract, and that is not easy. It is becoming more likely, though, as the date approaches. It seems odd to me that Jax has not been apparently involved, as the FS seems to be the biggest hole in their D, and they are on track for a SB run.

Goes or stays, I will remain an Earl fan, but I see advantages for the team if they can get draft value for him.


Good point about having an agreement, or at least some sort of understanding with Earl, of a contract prior to any trade. If Earl doesn't like the trade, he can either wait it out a year then become a FA or simply retire. And there's no reason why a trade can't occur after the draft, although admittedly draft day is the ideal time.

Which is why I'm wondering why you're surprised that Jax appears not to be involved. If his goal is to go back home, why would he want to trade a 3 hour flight for a 1.5 hour flight?
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:50 am

Which is why I'm wondering why you're surprised that Jax appears not to be involved. If his goal is to go back home, why would he want to trade a 3 hour flight for a 1.5 hour flight?


It doesn't make sense on the surface unless he thinks the money is good enough for the risk and the reward of a possible ring is a big lure for him.
With Jax looking like they are on their way up, it might be a factor. They really needed someone like him in the playoffs last year when some of those deep throws were completed on their Defense.
I doubt they would have been beat deep if he was on the field for them.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:30 am

After Earl is traded Pete will hold a presser where he will add ET to the list of players on the Defense who are to blame for the down fall of our Seahawks and NOT the offense in general or Darrell Bevell and Tom Cable in particular. Nope, it WAS the defense, just ASK PETE! He 'll tell you!

I not "buy'in" to Pete's B.S. why are any of you???
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:35 am

Seahawks4Ever wrote:After Earl is traded Pete will hold a presser where he will add ET to the list of players on the Defense who are to blame for the down fall of our Seahawks and NOT the offense in general or Darrell Bevell and Tom Cable in particular. Nope, it WAS the defense, just ASK PETE! He 'll tell you!

I not "buy'in" to Pete's B.S. why are any of you???


Like all coaches that talk to the media, some of it's BS, but most of us can filter it without droning on and on ad nauseam.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:38 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:After Earl is traded Pete will hold a presser where he will add ET to the list of players on the Defense who are to blame for the down fall of our Seahawks and NOT the offense in general or Darrell Bevell and Tom Cable in particular. Nope, it WAS the defense, just ASK PETE! He 'll tell you!

I not "buy'in" to Pete's B.S. why are any of you???


I don't care how many insane posts you make, Pete Carroll will always be considered great in Seattle. He is the only coach to win us a Super Bowl. You thinking that is easy and we'll find a new coach to lead us to a Super Bowl victory while drafting the best QB in our history and building a historically great defense that set not just a Seahawks record, but an NFL record shows how little appreciation you have for greatness.

Pete Carroll is Seattle's greatest coach. He set a high bar for anyone looking to take that title from him. He may not get back to the big game or have another period as good, but then again not many teams get even one era as good as we've had during the Pete Carroll Era.

So you keep on droning on about Pete and John this and Pete and John that, but their homeruns have exceeded their misses to create an era of Seahawks football we may never have again because it is incredibly difficult to succeed to the same level as Pete Carroll in the amount of time he did it in. You seem to have no sense of how good football has been under Pete Carroll and John Schneider.

You're going to have a very hard time convincing people that have been watching this game a long time there is a rainbow on the other side of Pete Carroll and John Schneider. After Pete and John are gone, we may never see another era of football this good in Seattle for decades or longer.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby idhawkman » Wed Apr 25, 2018 6:20 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:I not "buy'in" to Pete's B.S. why are any of you???

Are you serious? The easy answer is that we are Seahawk Fans, not Pete Carroll haters. Move on already and cheer for your team instead of hating against its coach.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:24 am

I would be more inclined to agree with S4E if he was talking about the Offense in isolation, not the team as a whole.
I've been saying for years that PC doesn't get the Offensive side of today's game. He can't seem to help himself when a bangle is flashed in front of him like Harvin or Graham but like a dog who catches the car doesn't know what to do with them once he gets them.
Trying to turn Graham into a blocking TE? Are you serious? Graham spent a lot of effort in arbitration trying to show he was more of a WR - which is an insight into how he views himself.
So what does PC do? He tries for 2 years to make JG into something he isn't and doesn't want to be.
It's like taking Secretariat after the first leg of the Triple Crown and sending him into the back 40 to pull a plow. It's like taking your Ferrari Enzo off roading.
So what we ended up with has been a perfectly predictable vanilla Offense that every team knows what to expect.
So he fired Bevell and Cable. I fear that Schottenheimer will get the same directions that Bevell got and we will see different plays, but really they will be conservative in nature and become
very predictable with mostly the same results.

What I would like to see on the Offensive side is for Schottenheimer to comb through the best Offenses in the league and steal plays from their playbooks that fit our personnel.
Maybe even go back to Darryl "Mouse" Davis and his run and shoot Offense for some concepts. They could ask Warren Moon for that matter as he became a master at it.
I'm not proposing using the Run and Shoot Offense, rather taking some of the concepts from it (of which variations are in use around the league today) and other successful Offenses and use those that fit
our personnel. Do something different, break out of the conservative box a little bit and keep the opposing Defenses off balance.

I feel better now after this rant.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon May 07, 2018 2:34 am

First honest post about Saint Pete (other than my own) that I have read in a long while. I too have mentioned, adnauseum how PC doesn't really understand the Offensive side of the ball which, when you think about that fact, it means that he is HARDLY a defensive GENIOUS if he doesn't understand offense. Pete is GREAT at putting together a TEAM of assistant coaches and then he rides or falls on THEIR innovation.

THAT is PC in a nut shell.

Now, back to ET. Pete is not very happy with Earl. Pete said to a reporter that "some players don't understand voluntary" in referring to ET's recent absence. What I think PC was getting at was that in sports voluntary mean MANDITORY, at least it does for players that need to show the F/O something. What Pete doesn't understand is that Earl IS sending him a message and that message is PAY ME or TRADE ME hopefully to Dallas...

Oh, and the Hawks are getting ready to move on w/o K.J. too. Shaq's bro has been slated at WLB, K.J.'s spot instead of being the next Kam Pete is grooming Qeem to be the next K.J. so instead of ADDING talent we are only going to be REPLACING talent with younger talent so instead of getting better by addition we get better by getting younger. Sounds to me more like treading water, but Pete is the HC so he has been right before so I hope he is right again. He has a better chance of being right than ME that's for sure!
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Mon May 07, 2018 5:27 am

Seahawks4Ever wrote:I not "buy'in" to Pete's B.S. why are any of you???


At the risk of speaking for others, I'm going to suggest that it has something to do with the fact that he's given us the best period of Seahawk football that we've ever had, including 2 of our 3 SB appearances and our only Lombardi.

But then again, I'm pretty well known as a heavy buyer of B.S.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby NorthHawk » Mon May 07, 2018 7:19 am

Seahawks4Ever wrote:First honest post about Saint Pete (other than my own) that I have read in a long while. I too have mentioned, adnauseum how PC doesn't really understand the Offensive side of the ball which, when you think about that fact, it means that he is HARDLY a defensive GENIOUS if he doesn't understand offense. Pete is GREAT at putting together a TEAM of assistant coaches and then he rides or falls on THEIR innovation.

THAT is PC in a nut shell.

Now, back to ET. Pete is not very happy with Earl. Pete said to a reporter that "some players don't understand voluntary" in referring to ET's recent absence. What I think PC was getting at was that in sports voluntary mean MANDITORY, at least it does for players that need to show the F/O something. What Pete doesn't understand is that Earl IS sending him a message and that message is PAY ME or TRADE ME hopefully to Dallas...

Oh, and the Hawks are getting ready to move on w/o K.J. too. Shaq's bro has been slated at WLB, K.J.'s spot instead of being the next Kam Pete is grooming Qeem to be the next K.J. so instead of ADDING talent we are only going to be REPLACING talent with younger talent so instead of getting better by addition we get better by getting younger. Sounds to me more like treading water, but Pete is the HC so he has been right before so I hope he is right again. He has a better chance of being right than ME that's for sure!


I think Pete is a great Defensive coach. He's proven it over the long haul, but like many coaches both successful and not, when they specialize on one side of the ball, they don't always understand the other side.
Look at Holmgren. He is a great Offensive mind, but didn't pay much attention to the Defense as his focus was the execution of the plays on Offense. McCarthy in Green Bay is the same along with Payton in New Orleans.
If their Defenses catch up to their Offenses they will be perennial challengers to make it to the Super Bowl.
The best coaches are like Belichick today or Don Shula from years ago who understood that both sides need to be addressed for a team continue to win over time.
Maybe Pete had an epiphany in the off season and will let Schottenheimer do the play calling within a much looser box than Bevell. It does help that Schottenheimer will be the only voice for coaching and play calling and not be
hamstrung by the OL coach also being the run coordinator with a big input into game planning.
We'll see if it's a change for the better, but it couldn't be any worse than the last 2 years.

KJ has this year for sure, but he may get extended as he's one of the quiet leaders on the team. He's a bit like Avril in that we don't hear much from him other than he's just making plays and leading by example.
Shaquem should challenge KJ for playing time, but he may also be used in different roles as he learns the Defense and his full list of talents are discovered by the Defensive coaching staff.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon May 07, 2018 4:52 pm

I often use Holmy as the offensive equivalent of PC which is WHY neither one of them deserves to be enshrined in Canton where the TRULY GREAT are. Like Belichek you mentioned, he knows ALL aspects and so did Tuna, Landry, Lombardi, Shula, Noll, Walsh, and Marv. Levy. There was a REASON the Bud Grants of the world ALWAYS choked in the big games, just like a Marty Shottenheimer coached team (or Brian) such a coached team is destined to eventually fail.

There is only ONE reason a Pete Carroll coached team went over the top, he had put together one of the greatest defenses EVER. Then he squandered it and blamed the squad for his failures.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon May 07, 2018 5:32 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:I often use Holmy as the offensive equivalent of PC which is WHY neither one of them deserves to be enshrined in Canton where the TRULY GREAT are. Like Belichek you mentioned, he knows ALL aspects and so did Tuna, Landry, Lombardi, Shula, Noll, Walsh, and Marv. Levy. There was a REASON the Bud Grants of the world ALWAYS choked in the big games, just like a Marty Shottenheimer coached team (or Brian) such a coached team is destined to eventually fail.

There is only ONE reason a Pete Carroll coached team went over the top, he had put together one of the greatest defenses EVER. Then he squandered it and blamed the squad for his failures.


Tuna: Two Super Bowl wins.
Landry: Two Super Bowl wins
Marv Levy: Zero Super Bowl wins.

Many more years as head coach than Carroll. So Carroll needs one more Super Bowl win to rate in your book? SMH.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Mon May 07, 2018 6:56 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Tuna: Two Super Bowl wins.
Landry: Two Super Bowl wins
Marv Levy: Zero Super Bowl wins.

Many more years as head coach than Carroll. So Carroll needs one more Super Bowl win to rate in your book? SMH.


IMO Marv Levy is very underrated in that he got his team to 4 consecutive SB's, a record not likely to be broken.

But your point is well taken. There are very few coaches that have taken their team to two consecutive Super Bowls, and most, if not all, are in the HOF or will be (like Belichek). Pete is already in rarefied air.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby mykc14 » Mon May 07, 2018 9:14 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:I often use Holmy as the offensive equivalent of PC which is WHY neither one of them deserves to be enshrined in Canton where the TRULY GREAT are. Like Belichek you mentioned, he knows ALL aspects and so did Tuna, Landry, Lombardi, Shula, Noll, Walsh, and Marv. Levy. There was a REASON the Bud Grants of the world ALWAYS choked in the big games, just like a Marty Shottenheimer coached team (or Brian) such a coached team is destined to eventually fail.

There is only ONE reason a Pete Carroll coached team went over the top, he had put together one of the greatest defenses EVER. Then he squandered it and blamed the squad for his failures.


Holmy had Zero input on the defensive side of the ball. PC’s influence, on the other hand, can clearly be seen on the O. Very conservative, run first, field possession, ball control, don’t put the D in a tough situation. I have been calling it Pete Ball for years and those are all aspects of PCs offense philosophy and all are clearly integrated into the offense. You can argue the effectiveness of his offensive philosophy (I don’t really like it) but you can’t deny his clear footprint on that side of the ball.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon May 07, 2018 9:48 pm

RiverDog wrote:IMO Marv Levy is very underrated in that he got his team to 4 consecutive SB's, a record not likely to be broken.

But your point is well taken. There are very few coaches that have taken their team to two consecutive Super Bowls, and most, if not all, are in the HOF or will be (like Belichek). Pete is already in rarefied air.


I know it's pretty pointless to try to change the mind if a person set in an idea regardless of evidence, but it's fun to try.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 08, 2018 4:15 am

Pete Carroll and Mike Holmgren will both wind up in the Hall eventually.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 08, 2018 6:05 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Pete Carroll and Mike Holmgren will both wind up in the Hall eventually.


Very debatable on both accounts. There's a number of marginal coaches with the SB records (which seems to be the standard for HOF HC's) that Holmgren and Pete have...Tom Coughlin and Mike Tomlin are two that come to mind. And we can't simply dismiss Pete's 1990's HC record where he was fired from two jobs as never having happened. He'll need at least one more Lombardi to get in IMO.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby HumanCockroach » Thu May 10, 2018 1:04 am

"Walter Jones never went to another team's coach and said "Come and get me."

Lmfao.


RiverDog"

Wasn't aware you followed Walter 24/7 for 14 years, must have been fun. Lucky you.... times have changed, no constant coverage, Twitter, blogs, video blah. Blah, blah... you grasping for something.

Told you he wouldn't be traded, he wasn't, it's over. B#tching not missing VOLUNTARY workouts, and professing some garbage because those durn players have the gall to barter for raises just like us is hypocritically hilarious.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Fri May 11, 2018 10:23 am

Holmgren would already be in if we would have won XL, just sayin.
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Re: Earl Thomas (Poll)

Postby politicalfootball » Tue May 15, 2018 4:15 am

c_hawkbob wrote:There is no replacement for Earl out there. We'd have to rethink a lot of what we do on defense because so much of it is predicated on Earls unique range and instincts.


We have to keep him he is the best safety in the league without him at safty we have nothing and likely are going to be worse than 9-7.
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Re: Earl Thomas

Postby curmudgeon » Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:01 am

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