Earl Thomas

[burrrton]

Lol... neither man understands contractual work, and then insists they do.... lmfao.... y'all don't know spit about what you are talking about.

Do you have any idea how ironic this is to say considering how positively incoherent your posts are??

Thanks for reminding me why I had you on mute.

[HumanCockroach]

Whatever, I'm sorry this dose of the real world wasn't to your liking, but that IS how the real world works, how breech of contract works, and whether you haven't a clue about that really isn't my concern.

*Your reading skills and comprehension skills need a little work. I'm sure there's an online class you can take. Good luck.

[RiverDog]

Lmao... spoken like people that have never worked under a contract in the "real world". Contracts can, and indeed do get reworked when a contractor decides the cost exceeds the benefits.

That usually happens after the fact. I have never seen a company that was under contract shut down a project or fail to deliver on something simply because cost rose unexpectedly or that they were no longer happy with the agreement that they signed.

Most large contracts have a grievance procedure set up to address unexpected costs, which could be what you are talking about "reworking" a contract. For example, the construction of the Alaskan Way Viaduct Tunnel, where the tunneling machine, "Bertha", hit a test well and broke down for a year. The prime contractor filed a grievance to be compensated beyond what was stated in the contract, the state denied it, and it will no doubt end up in court if it hasn't already. But none of the contractors ever walked off the job and the tunnel got finished as fast as was humanly possible given the breakdowns.

If you have an example to the contrary, please enlighten us.

[HumanCockroach]

Fine. We do contract work in refineries. We sign a contract, and have agreed upon scope of work, dates, and procedures. Some refineries add work as we go, even IF the work can be completed within the confines of the existing contract, we will not do the work, unless the contract is retnegotiated to pay more for the work required, as it wasn't in the original scope ( ie we HOLD OUT for more money).

If you like that example, here's another. We arrive at a refinery to do the contracted work, only to find that the safety is below OUR acceptable levels, despite the contract being in place, no laws being broken, and everything necessary to do the work, we walk out, which I assure you happens regularly.

We "adjust" our contracts regularly either to cover the increased scope, the below value for the work being done, the substandard safety of the plant, increased difficulty with them, or the increased cost for doing said work. It might not happen every job, but a good 45 to 55% of all jobs are renegotiated during the agreed upon contract.

Where the NFL ownership fails in regards to contactual employees is the "blackballing" ( which is indeed commonplace amongst other contracting companies) ... ultimately, if you walk for no reason ( or at least one that can validly be justified) you are going to have a very short, and unproductive career.... in the NFL because of the system in place, that isn't a deterrent. Ultimately, the idea that there's all these breach of contract claims due to a contractually obligated employee leaving or holding out early is simply not accurate. That's the "real world" I live it every year, every day In working.

It doesn't mean I like that Thomas is holding out, nor that I want him to. It doesn't mean it's what I would do ( I have no idea what I would do, nor does anyone else that isn't in that position. We all like to believe or think we would do this or that, but truthfully, we're guessing) it simply means it's COMMONPLACE throughout the United States, and that very few ( if really any of note) are brought to court.

I have zero issue with people not liking it, my issue is their belief they have the right to judge, insult and tarnish another man doing what they have decided to do with their life. I find it offensive, immature, and short sighted. It happens daily, yet only NFL players, and only players on "your" team get that response. It's silly.

[burrrton]

Most large contracts have a grievance procedure set up to address unexpected costs, which could be what you are talking about "reworking" a contract.

And whatever the h3ll he's talking about, none of the possible conditions for demanding a new contract (and to be clear, virtually all of them are either written into or otherwise legally allowed by the contract) rise to the ridiculousness of "I wish the contract paid me more money".

Defending millionaires dorking your team- welcome the 2018 NFL fanbase (well, some of it).

Again, though, if he thinks he can get away with it, have at it. Just don't expect any support from me, and if you are literally are one of the most privileged, pampered people in the history of planet earth, don't present yourself as some kind of charity case.

[HumanCockroach]

Absolutely, it works like this. Our representative says we need more money, or we don't do the work. Their reprensentitive says yes, or no, or how about this instead... ie reworking of the contract. It isn't super difficult to grasp, and I assure you they do and have done so for exactly the reason burton claims doesn't happen. They might give trumped up reasons ( typically if you want the job done on time, you'll need to start running 7 /12s or it won't happen. IE double time, overtime costs, sub increases etc) but I assure you, it's "more money" driving those discussions.

[HumanCockroach]

Only a fool would say someones defending another man saying that making his own business decisions are his own, or pointing out the absolute fallacy of a claim that "in the real world they would be facing breach of contract" claims. That's not defending, that's living in the "real world". What another man does for his financial well being, whether I agree with it or not, is THAT man's right. I don't freak out when an owner cuts somebody because they don't want to pay them, they get injured ( notice I was good with Sherman being dumped) or they get to old to be a viable player ( those are business decisions, THEIR business decisions) I may disagree, with them, but at no point do I make it personal. WTF would I do so for a player? I hold everybody to the same standard, unfortunate others can't seem to do likewise.

[RiverDog]

"Some refineries add work as we go, even IF the work can be completed within the confines of the existing contract, we will not do the work, unless the contract is retnegotiated to pay more for the work required, as it wasn't in the original scope ( ie we HOLD OUT for more money).

Adding work goes beyond the scope of the contract, which is not the case in NFL player contracts. What you're saing would be like adding a 17th regular season game and not paying the players for it.

If you like that example, here's another. We arrive at a refinery to do the contracted work, only to find that the safety is below OUR acceptable levels,

Again, not analogous with NFL player contracts. Any worker that is licensed by an agency will refuse to do work that might compromise their license. My wife nearly walked off a job in a nursing home because they added so many residents to her duties that she couldn't possibly monitor them, which would have endangered her nursing license. That's not the same thing as an NFL player holding out for more money. Nothing about the working conditions, amount of work, or quality of work being required has changed. Nothing.

You're comparing apples with oranges, but I do appreciate the insights.

[NorthHawk]

A letter from ET.
It doesn't look good for us to see him in a Seahawks jersey any time soon or maybe ever again.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us ... ks-holdout

[RiverDog]

Interesting. Thanks for posting it.

One of the things that made laugh out loud was when Earl talked about his first press conference as a pro, seeing Russell Okung in a full suit while he was in a muscle shirt and shorts, not realizing what the expectations for an NFL press conference were as it immediately reminded me of that douche bag Colin Kapernick showing up to a press conference with his headphones.

I'm a little skeptical of his claim that his holdout is financially motivated. At best, it's a gamble as he could easily lose money on the move if the Seahawks don't budge and he remains in limbo for a long period of time. Just reading between the leaves, I think that he wants out pretty badly but is just being politically correct so as not to offend the Hawk fan base, of whom I do feel he has genuine feelings toward. IMO something else is at work besides simply money.

[Hawk Sista]

Earl has been one of my favorite players for many years. I really want him here & the thought of him in another uniform is more upsetting than seeing Sherm in red & gold. That said, he can’t claim it’s “just a business” and then appeal to our emotions for the remainder of the article. If it is a business, & it is, he should understand why Lofa was asked to take a cut. Anyone here remember Lofa’s Success after leaving? Me neither. The life a a player (on the field) is short indeed AND there is only so much money to address a bevy of needs. I know the chance of him playing for us again is slim to none; I hope he does, though. Unless he really doesn’t want to be here anymore.

That’s his call to make & he appears to be making it. Bummer

[idhawkman]

His comments speak volumes.

It’s the reason I’m holding out — I want to be able to give my everything, on every play, without any doubt in my mind.

So if he doesn't get his way and decides to show up he isn't going to give it his all? Not good. I'm not sure I'd want him at this point with that going through his mind.

[HumanCockroach]

That's human nature. You know you can be maimed with zero guarantees you are you're going to be far more inhibited. Every person is set up that way. Not sure it's even a conscious choice, just happens.

[mykc14]

Good article, but one thing he doesn’t touch is how much money he wants. He doesn’t ‘just’ want to know he’s taken care of if there’s an injury he also wants a lot of money to do so, many report he wants to be the highest paid safety in the league. Thats 40 mil guaranteed. The same examples he gave (Sherm and Kam) are the same examples the Hawks use to argue why NOT to sign him to a big money extension. As we all know the price of a safety has plunged this off-season and it makes it very difficult for any team to match or beat Eric Berry’s contract. He feels like he is asking for something he has ‘earned’ when contracts are written for what you are going to do not what you have done. When teams sign players for what they have done for the organization they usually end poorly, just like resigning Tatupu would have ended.

[The POPE]

It’s the reason I’m holding out — I want to be able to give my everything, on every play, without any doubt in my mind.

So if he doesn't get his way and decides to show up he isn't going to give it his all? Not good. I'm not sure I'd want him at this point with that going through his mind.[/quote]


If he does return and half asess his performance it will only hurt his value when he does hit free agency. Earl doesn't have a 'whole lot of leverage with this deal. Sure he can sign with another team next but unless he performs at a high level this year (if he reports and plays) his value will sink further. I suspect that he will return in week 3 or 4 like Kam. Long term deal I'm not so sure.
C'mon Jerrah, give us a 2nd or 3rd round pick for Earl, if he wants out bad enough and wants to be a Cowturd as much as he professes. I'm sure he and Jerrah can work something out. The situation now with the rhetoric he is throwing around is a No Bueno situation.

Earl has been my favorite player for years, Without him covering Sherms ass on the deep ball, Sherm is just a footnote in Hawk history. Cant wait to see how Sherm does without Earl around,,.
I will miss watching Earl patrol the secondary, but all good things must end at some point.

Pope...out

[idhawkman]

The Cowturds need to give us more than a 3rd since we'll get a comensatory 3rd for Earl next year if he walks away from us.

[Hawk Sista]

Not necessarily so, ID. The formula has to do with how many FAs walk and how many we sign. Remember we all thought we’d get a third for Sheldon (lessening the blow of giving up a 2nd for him)? That didn’t pan out that way based on our FA signings vs. losses.

[NorthHawk]

I read a suggestion (might have been Fieldgulls) that considered the Seahawks trading ET for Kahlil Mack of the Raiders.
I doubt it would happen, but if Mack is not in Gruden's good book and they do need a FS, maybe things could fall into place.

[idhawkman]

I read a suggestion (might have been Fieldgulls) that considered the Seahawks trading ET for Kahlil Mack of the Raiders.
I doubt it would happen, but if Mack is not in Gruden's good book and they do need a FS, maybe things could fall into place.

I think we need more interior beefy guys than outside rushers. I keep thinking about winning the SB with the likes of Mebane, Red Bryant, McDaniels, etc. Clemmens and Avril were needed but we need the beef up front and a DE like Red.

[NorthHawk]

We need pass rushers and Mack is definitely one of those. I think we are OK up the middle with Reed, Jones, and the 2 players from the Vikings.
It's just pie in the sky, though as I'm sure the Raiders will re-sign him sooner than later, but it would address needs on both teams.

[NorthHawk]

Things are getting uglier and it looks like ET won't like the Seahawks stance.
He might never play for us again.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2018/ ... arl-thomas

[obiken]

Cant really blame them, a contract is a contract.

[jshawaii22]

Mack is holding out for a new contract from his rookie deal.
ET is holding out for a new (last?) contract

I doubt either team would trade one for another. Makes no sense and I sure don't see the Seahawks giving up a #2 or 3 pick in addition to ET.. Mack was DPY, younger and wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL. Worth far more than a 30 year old looking to be paid his 'last' deal.
Good Luck with that.

ET has no choice but to report for the 2nd 1/2 of the year. At that point if he doesn't report he doesn't get credit for the year and plays it all over again next year.

[politicalfootball]

What are the chances of Thomas playing for the Seahawks this year

[c_hawkbob]

What are the chances of Thomas playing for the Seahawks this year

Barring a last minute trade 100%. No way he sits out a whole year and doesn't get that year counted towards becoming a free agent.

The new article is merely reaffirming the team's stated stance before TC that they would only negotiate with a player after he reports to camp.

[RiverDog]

Barring a last minute trade 100%. No way he (ET) sits out a whole year and doesn't get that year counted towards becoming a free agent.

The new article is merely reaffirming the team's stated stance before TC that they would only negotiate with a player after he reports to camp.

100%? There isn't at least a small possibility that Earl decides to retire if his demands are not met?

[c_hawkbob]

Not in my mind, but if you like go ahead and assign in a percentage more comfortable for you.

[NorthHawk]

If the article is correct and the team will collect the fines for missing camp and maybe games, I think the probability decreases quite a bit.
He's going to lose millions and that means his game checks will decrease by maybe enough for him to consider not playing at all.
I hope they haven't entrenched themselves (both sides) into a position whereby it becomes pride on ET's side and making a point on the team side.

I would say it's about 80% that he plays, but it might be less if he doesn't report until the last minute as it would mean only getting the remaining years salary minus the fines.

[c_hawkbob]

Even if he holds out through week 8 he'll still play when he comes back, he's too good not to.

[RiverDog]

I would say it's about 80% that he plays, but it might be less if he doesn't report until the last minute as it would mean only getting the remaining years salary minus the fines.

I find myself between you and Cbob. IMO there's a 95% chance or better that barring a trade, ET plays for us simply for the fact that none of us can say with certainty what is going on inside someone else's mind.

If he returns, part of the deal will likely include the Hawks waiving the fines.

[NorthHawk]

The article says the Seahawks aren't going to forgive the fines.
If they keep that stance, it will eat into his weekly salary so he may end up playing 8 games for less than $4 million (a maximum of $3.8 as of today).
He may look at not waiving the fines as an insult and not play.
I think he does play, but I also think the odds change towards not if the team doesn't budge when he reports.

[idhawkman]

Even if he holds out through week 8 he'll still play when he comes back, he's too good not to.

He's good but if the team is 6-2 or 7-1 he may sit for a while before they put him in. Why upset a cart that is working well together?

[c_hawkbob]

No later than the second week he's back.

[Hawk Sista]

I know it’s been discussed, but I will never forget the year (19damned99) Joey Galloway held out and came back after 8 games. The Hawks were humming to a great start and ended up 9 & 7 after an impressive 6 & 2 out of the gate. While his holdout and eventual return may have had zero impact, it sure felt like it did & I never forgave Joey for that season. He was as never as good as he’d been his first 4 years... so it effed him up to.

Kam’s holdout, even though for only 2 games, hurt both Kam and the team. I’m certain he’d do it differently now that he knows what he knows. I have loved Earl, but he’s hurting himself and my team (in ways bigger than not being available). Every passing day is more disappointing that the previous one. Get to camp, ET - while the 12s still love you and before you lose 4 million bucks that you can NEVER get back.

[RiverDog]

I know it’s been discussed, but I will never forget the year (19damned99) Joey Galloway held out and came back after 8 games. The Hawks were humming to a great start and ended up 9 & 7 after an impressive 6 & 2 out of the gate. While his holdout and eventual return may have had zero impact, it sure felt like it did & I never forgave Joey for that season. He was as never as good as he’d been his first 4 years... so it effed him up to.

I remember that, too. It was Holmgren's first year here and he wasn't about to set a precedent by caving into a contract demand. Holmgren got the last laugh as we ended up trading Galloway to the Cowboys for 2 first round picks, one of the most lopsided deals in our franchise's history as Galloway never reached 1,000 receiving yards in 3 years with the 'Gurls.

Kam’s holdout, even though for only 2 games, hurt both Kam and the team. I’m certain he’d do it differently now that he knows what he knows. I have loved Earl, but he’s hurting himself and my team (in ways bigger than not being available). Every passing day is more disappointing that the previous one. Get to camp, ET - while the 12s still love you and before you lose 4 million bucks that you can NEVER get back.

I lost a ton of respect for Kam when he held out. We were SB contenders and he let both his fans and his teammates down big time. But there's a big difference between his situation and Earl's. We are not in the same competitive position this season as we were the year Kam held out and we weren't trying to trade him like we have been with Earl. That doesn't mean I'm in support of Earl's position, only that it's not analogus to Kam's situation.

[Hawk Sista]

It may not be, RD. But the way I feel about it is the same. I believe we are a few defensive pieces away from being real contenders as RW will always make us competitive on the other side of the ball. The way Earl has chosen to go about his business will positively impact nobody, himself included.

[Aseahawkfan]

Earl is being really dumb as far as his career goes. I hope he is willing to retire because holding out is going to mess his career up more than it will mess up the Seahawks. He's going to lose money, be out of shape and practice lowering his trade and market value, hurt his market value by willingly damaging the team to get his way seeming selfish, and generally hurt himself as has been shown with most holdouts. As much as I don't vilify the player for holding out as that is their main option for forcing negotiation, it rarely seems to work very well for the player. I never understand why a proven damaging method of forcing contract negotiation continues to be used by players thinking they will somehow have a different result.

[NorthHawk]

They do it because it's pretty much the only lever they have.

[Aseahawkfan]

They do it because it's pretty much the only lever they have.

The other smart way is to play out the contract and hit the market negotiating a market rate contract. There is no way for them to maintain the skill and abilities they hone with real practice, especially playing a position like Earl's. The only guy I've seen consistently do it is Walter Jones. He was a freak of nature that made playing LT look like working as a grocery clerk in a small town.

[RiverDog]

The other smart way is to play out the contract and hit the market negotiating a market rate contract. There is no way for them to maintain the skill and abilities they hone with real practice, especially playing a position like Earl's. The only guy I've seen consistently do it is Walter Jones. He was a freak of nature that made playing LT look like working as a grocery clerk in a small town.

No kidding. How many years did Walt skip the entire training camp then when the bell rang on the regular season, lined up and play at All Pro caliber?