Earl Thomas

[HumanCockroach]

So yeah, you could have skipped everything else, and just come clean to begin with here. You got issues with guys holding out, all that other make believe garbage about buying in, wear and tear etc could have been avoided ( 90% of the entire conversation) you got issues with holdouts, fine, some believe players shouldn't look out for their best interests , it's unrealistic as it's common in the NFL but at least it would have been the truth.

[idhawkman]

So yeah, you could have skipped everything else, and just come clean to begin with here. You got issues with guys holding out, all that other make believe garbage about buying in, wear and tear etc could have been avoided ( 90% of the entire conversation) you got issues with holdouts, fine, some believe players shouldn't look out for their best interests , it's unrealistic as it's common in the NFL but at least it would have been the truth.

That's definitely part of it and I did mention it a long time ago when I mentioned Kam's holdout. But just as much is the 3rd contract and the amount he wants. Its not a good deal so its time to move on.

Sorry you didn't see my earlier posts on this.

[c_hawkbob]

No, they are not relevant because their contracts are not in dispute at this time. When they become disputed by either expiration or by hold out then they will be comparable as to what the trade off are for their salary.

So you decided the thread was only about players holding out and that's supposed to apply to us all?

[idhawkman]

So you decided the thread was only about players holding out and that's supposed to apply to us all?

C'mon Bob, you're better than that. You know it is about Earl and Earl is the only one holding out at this time. He's the one that brought others into it saying we could save more money by ditching RW, or Bwags, etc. not me. I did point out that other players signing their third contracts didn't work out too good for us but again, that is relevent since this will be Earl's third contract.

I'm sure you may not have read the whole thread since it is so long but it is how it unfolded and why the RW, Bwags, etc arguments were strawmen since their contracts are not up for renewal at this time in a thread about Earl.

[HumanCockroach]

I didn't say that ID .. I was pointing out that their third contract is forth coming, in response to your claim 3rd contracts players no longer bought in.... at no point have I said seattle "should" get rid of any player, I guess Brown is a gray area for me, as his performance doesn't match his cost, at least to this point, but every player I brought up was in direct response to a no buy in, to much wear and tear, discussion. They were examples, NOT recommendations, even posted a second post clarifying that, so it wouldn't be misconstrued just like it just was...

Not surprising, it happens a lot, but disappointing that even though I tried to get ahead of it, it still being used as something it wasn't meant as.

[c_hawkbob]

C'mon Bob, you're better than that. You know it is about Earl and Earl is the only one holding out at this time. He's the one that brought others into it saying we could save more money by ditching RW, or Bwags, etc. not me. I did point out that other players signing their third contracts didn't work out too good for us but again, that is relevent since this will be Earl's third contract.

I'm sure you may not have read the whole thread since it is so long but it is how it unfolded and why the RW, Bwags, etc arguments were strawmen since their contracts are not up for renewal at this time in a thread about Earl.

Oh fer chrissakes stop with the "you're better than that" sh!t. The discussion is about Earl Thomas. Not just the fact that he's holding out, but his value to the team, his critical role in our defense and even his place in Seahawks history. You can't just unilaterally decide that everybody that says anything about him that doesn't refer strictly to his holdout is out of bounds. Even if we're only discussing should we or should we not extend his contract, his value relative to other Seahawks defenders, whether they are holding out or have ever held out or not, is still a valid discussion point.

Narrow your focus all you want (it's not necessarily a bad thing), just don't scold others for not doing the same.

[idhawkman]

Oh fer chrissakes stop with the "you're better than that" sh!t. The discussion is about Earl Thomas. Not just the fact that he's holding out, but his value to the team, his critical role in our defense and even his place in Seahawks history. You can't just unilaterally decide that everybody that says anything about him that doesn't refer strictly to his holdout is out of bounds. Even if we're only discussing should we or should we not extend his contract, his value relative to other Seahawks defenders, whether they are holding out or have ever held out or not, is still a valid discussion point.

Narrow your focus all you want (it's not necessarily a bad thing), just don't scold others for not doing the same.

Then we just disagree. Russell's contract has nothing to do with what is happening now and whether we should or shouldn't bend to Earl's demand.

[obiken]

Narrow your focus all you want (it's not necessarily a bad thing), just don't scold others for not doing the same.

Then we just disagree. Russell's contract has nothing to do with what is happening now and whether we should or shouldn't bend to Earl's demand.[/quote]

Exactly ID, it comes down to one fact, do you want to sign ET for 40 Million for 4 years, or not.

[NorthHawk]

The FO looks years down the road, so they take into account the Cap hits of players they expect to sign in future years when deciding on who to re-sign for big $$ today.
They also look at the market value of the position and contracts being offered today. Unfortunately for ET, he's the victim of bad timing as the
market for S has slipped since the Berry deal. It's much like how the RB market was devalued for a number of years and now players like Bell are trying to get better
salaries. With the number of good S on the market that aren't being signed or have been offered minimal contracts, it puts JS and PC in a bit of a bind.
Considering the Cap problems they are just getting over, they may not see it as good value for future years. If the market for S is still like it is today, it
wouldn't be a surprise if ET ended up signing for either less than he's getting today or pretty much the same and this year we could see Safeties like Reid, Vaccaro,
Boston, and others signing late in TC or the start of the year on prove it type contracts worth only a couple of million $.

From a talent perspective, I would love to keep him, but he may not fit into the FO's vision of their salary structure given the demands he has been reported to ask for
and commitments they will have to make to other key players. They may be looking at it like they could get a good S for $5 - $7 million less in the years when they
have to pay Wilson and some of the younger guys like Clark on their 2nd contracts.

I hope it works out so we can keep him, but I suspect it won't.

[curmudgeon]

Extend me or trade me......
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/16/earl-thomas-asks-seahawks-either-to-extend-him-or-lets-make-a-trade-happen/

[RiverDog]

Yea, I heard about that. It sounds like he's not as dedicated to the 12th man as he says he is if he's suggesting a trade before training camp starts. I hate to say it, but the Hawks might want to cut their losses and trade him for the 3rd rounder that the Cowboys offered. Something tells me that his heart no longer resides in Seattle.

[HumanCockroach]

The idea that a business man should be tied to a group of fans always confused me. Why in the world would he want to stay somewhere that doesn't seem particularly interested in having him? I sure the hell wouldn't. Fans or no fans. How long do you think it will take the HOF safety to get an extension somewhere else? A day? Maybe two?

[c_hawkbob]

He's a Cowboys fan. Grew up a Cowboy's fan, every bit as much as I'm a Seahawks fan ... but i don't for a second believe that he's ever been any less a loyal Seahawk player while he's been with us. If I was playing in the league I'd be 100% dedicated to the team I was a part of, but I'd be no less a Seahawks fan and would still hope to someday put on a Seahawks uniform.

One does not diminish the other.

[RiverDog]

The idea that a business man should be tied to a group of fans always confused me. Why in the world would he want to stay somewhere that doesn't seem particularly interested in having him? I sure the hell wouldn't. Fans or no fans. How long do you think it will take the HOF safety to get an extension somewhere else? A day? Maybe two?

I'm not saying that Earl, or any other player, should be tied to theid to their fan base. All I am doing is acknowleging that it would appear that for whatever reason, Earl's heart doesn't appear to be in it anymore, at least not here. A lot has happened in the last couple of years: No more Sherman, no more Kam, coaching changes, Earl's own injuries, and rumors and trade talks. Those events could be taking a psychological toll on him, and if what I suspect is true, that his heart isn't in it, I wouldn't blame him.

As far as how long would it take for another team to sign him to an extension, I would think that just like any other player/position, it would depend on the circumstances. If it's a playoff team with SB aspirations, say like the Jags or Vikings, then I would think it wouldn't even take them that long providing it did bust their budget. But if you're the Browns or Jets?

I'm perfectly content to trust Pete on this one. If there's one thing Pete Carroll knows, it's defense, particularily his defense and his players.

[idhawkman]

Currently the Seahawks hold all the cards but one. We could keep him for 2 more years by not extending him and then Franchising him. If he doesn't play then we save the money he forfeits.

But the card that Earl holds is that if he plays, his heart may not be in it. With Thomas, he has to have his heart into the game to be at his most effective.

[RiverDog]

Currently the Seahawks hold all the cards but one. We could keep him for 2 more years by not extending him and then Franchising him. If he doesn't play then we save the money he forfeits.

But the card that Earl holds is that if he plays, his heart may not be in it. With Thomas, he has to have his heart into the game to be at his most effective.

Technically, of course the Seahawks hold the cards. But I doubt that we'd try to strong arm him and force him to play out his contract, especially now that he's openly expressed his desire to be traded if a new deal isn't struck.

Hopefully the Hawks do something, either resign him or trade him, before training camp.

[NorthHawk]

It has to be settled before the season starts or else it sends a negative message to the other players.
All teams deal with it as it's part of the business side of things.

[idhawkman]

Technically, of course the Seahawks hold the cards. But I doubt that we'd try to strong arm him and force him to play out his contract, especially now that he's openly expressed his desire to be traded if a new deal isn't struck.

Hopefully the Hawks do something, either resign him or trade him, before training camp.

As I think about it, its a real tough spot to be in for the Seahawks. I know they don't want to create a precedent of letting players go that ask to be traded and they want to hold them to their contracts but if the players heart isn't in it... Not good any way it goes.

I hope they solve it before the season starts and there's only 8 days to start of camp...

[RiverDog]

As I think about it, its a real tough spot to be in for the Seahawks. I know they don't want to create a precedent of letting players go that ask to be traded and they want to hold them to their contracts but if the players heart isn't in it... Not good any way it goes.

I hope they solve it before the season starts and there's only 8 days to start of camp...

Wow, only 8 days until camp. Where has the summer gone? I guess getting it resolved before then is unrealistic.

[idhawkman]

Wow, only 8 days until camp. Where has the summer gone? I guess getting it resolved before then is unrealistic.

Kind of snuck up on us didn't it?

[c_hawkbob]

. Where has the summer gone?

Down here.

We've been having heat indices in the 100° to 110° range since early May, with a high that is 10° hotter than I've ever experience at 123° one day this month ... and it ain't even August yet!

[RiverDog]

We've had triple digit temperatures in my neck of the woods 3-4 times a week since the 4th, the difference being that our relative humidity is only about 10-15% and nighttime lows drop down into the 50's or low 60's. As long as I don't have to be in the direct sun or wear too much clothing and get plenty of fluids, I'm good with those conditions. I'd die if I had to live back east or on the Gulf coast.

On a related subject, I'm reminded of the Seahawks first ever training camp held in Cheney when it was nearly this hot out. Jack Patera wouldn't allow players to have water breaks. It's a wonder he didn't kill someone by heat stroke.

[c_hawkbob]

We've had triple digit temperatures in my neck of the woods 3-4 times a week since the 4th, the difference being that our relative humidity is only about 10-15%

That's why I specified heat indices. It's the humidity down here that gets you ... I experienced 120 on the thermometer in Bullhead City AZ but the heat index there was 110 that day ... it was hot as he!! but you could still breath and sweating actually helped.

[idhawkman]

I remember summers like this in high school (mid to late 70's). Working in the hay fields from sun up to sun down. I was golden brown those summers and had a tan that was so nice. Weekends I'd be up at the lake waterskiing. Its been a while since I've seen this type of summer.

I remember when I was in Kiev, the Ukrainians used to say that their winters were much more mild after Chernobyl melted down. I wonder if that, three mile island and others had any impact on the weather. Maybe it is getting back to normal now. But who knows?

[RiverDog]

I remember summers like this in high school (mid to late 70's). Working in the hay fields from sun up to sun down. I was golden brown those summers and had a tan that was so nice. Weekends I'd be up at the lake waterskiing. Its been a while since I've seen this type of summer.

I remember when I was in Kiev, the Ukrainians used to say that their winters were much more mild after Chernobyl melted down. I wonder if that, three mile island and others had any impact on the weather. Maybe it is getting back to normal now. But who knows?

I don't want to start an OT debate here, but there was very little radiation released into the environment due to the TMI accident.

[RiverDog]

Looks like he's a goner...

I'm told Earl Thomas will not report to the @Seahawks. He is done with Seattle. Plans to sell his house in Seattle. He will ONLY report if he gets a new deal.

But at least he's not limiting himself to just the Cowboys.

ttps://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seah ... -for-raide

[HumanCockroach]

I'll believe it when it happens, not a second before....

[c_hawkbob]

It's still posturing on both sides. It's Earls contract year and he'll be turning 30, holding out well into the season would potentially seriously hurt his bargaining position with other teams after the season. Seattle wants to stick by their oft stated position of not negotiating until the player reports to camp and doesn't believe the holdout will last into the season. Meanwhile other teams are willing to wait to see how things unfold here before committing to a trade and big commitment to Earl.

Stay tuned.

[RiverDog]

It's still posturing on both sides. It's Earls contract year and he'll be turning 30, holding out well into the season would potentially seriously hurt his bargaining position with other teams after the season. Seattle wants to stick by their oft stated position of not negotiating until the player reports to camp and doesn't believe the holdout will last into the season. Meanwhile other teams are willing to wait to see how things unfold here before committing to a trade and big commitment to Earl.

Stay tuned.

There's not much posturing going on from the team's POV. They aren't even talking. Pete and Schieder didn't negotiate with Kam when he held out when we were coming off a SB year and still very much a contender, I find it hard to believe that they'd negotiate with Earl when we're in a rebuilding mode with a lot of new blood witnessing how the Hawks respond to holdouts.

IMO the only way this gets resolved is if Earl ends his holdout.

[c_hawkbob]

We don't know what the team is doing because they don't keep the press appraised of anything until it happens, but they are at least publicly taking their usual hard line against negotiating before the player reports for camp, which is in and of itself "posturing".

[idhawkman]

I seem to remember Kam had more than one year left on his contract also. The team has negotiated with players on their last year - usually by doing an extension to the year they have left. I don't see this ending anytime soon though. It will probably be somewhere after the first few games when we find out if we can still win without him or not. The leverage will go to Earl if we can't, but if we can, the leverage goes to the team.

Edited: I really hate hold outs in the first year of a new coordinator.

[RiverDog]

I seem to remember Kam had more than one year left on his contract also. The team has negotiated with players on their last year - usually by doing an extension to the year they have left. I don't see this ending anytime soon though. It will probably be somewhere after the first few games when we find out if we can still win without him or not. The leverage will go to Earl if we can't, but if we can, the leverage goes to the team.

Edited: I really hate hold outs in the first year of a new coordinator.

Or....if we win our first few games, it might give the team the sense that they can compete and motivate them to bring Earl back. But if we lose those first few games, it might give them the sense that the season is unlikely to turn around and that there wouldn't be any sense in bringing him back. Hard to say which scenerio would prevail, yours or mine.

[HumanCockroach]

Thomas in his last year, Kam wasn't, there's no "hardline" comparable between the two and likely the reason Thomas has refused to attend otas. Lynch the only player who successfully got extended with 2 yrs left on his contract.

[c_hawkbob]

Thomas in his last year, Kam wasn't, there's no "hardline" comparable between the two and likely the reason Thomas has refused to attend otas. Lynch the only player who successfully got extended with 2 yrs left on his contract.

The team's stated "hard line" is not negotiating until the player reports for camp, nothing to do with last year of the contract (although they have said they prefer not to do that as well).

[Rambo2014]

Well boys???

Will he show up for work tommorrow?

I say no and the Hawks will be at the bottom of the calculation

[RiverDog]

Thomas in his last year, Kam wasn't, there's no "hardline" comparable between the two and likely the reason Thomas has refused to attend otas. Lynch the only player who successfully got extended with 2 yrs left on his contract.

How many years are left on his contract is not nearly as relevant as the fact that he's not in camp and and the team's situation (in rebuild mode).

[idhawkman]

Earl officially a no show today to start camp.

[HumanCockroach]

Also not a hardline, as they have indeed extended players that are a no show for team activities.

[c_hawkbob]

Nobody said team activities.

[HumanCockroach]

You mean like mandatory OTAs ..... ? Preference, not hardline Bob. You guys attempting to make some sort of preference into a rule, which doesn't exist.

Regardless, whatever, this is a common occurrence in the NGL, some teams value their key cogs ( see Atlanta and Julio Jones) some don't. It's really pointless to debate it. The sane as its pointless to attempt to play the loyalty card, or process some moral "higher ground" when another man conducts business. Ultimately, no one here is them, and isn't privy to what goes on( personally, professionally, health wise, financially etc), either with the player, or the front office.

Personal biases aside, there's only a single question fans need to ask, is the team better or worse with player "x"... In ET, Wagner, Wilson, Baldwin, Wright the answer is a clear, YES( at least at this time, and for the foreseeable future in ET, Wagner, Wilson, and Baldwin's cases)they are better... and no 3rd round pick next year is going to make them "better" this season, and there's a incredibly high likelihood that a pick ( or two, or three) won't come close to replacing their productivity for YEARS if not never.

That's not homerism, that's honesty, and EVALUATION. People getting all emotional over another man's, or companies business, and allowing that question to be lost somehow. That's simply not my thing. I actually AM a team "homer" hence the desire to retain premier players, while drinking over the hill under performers