Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

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Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby trents » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:33 pm

Foles' success, even being named the SB MVP, creates an interesting problem for Philly next year. For most of the year (before his injury) Carson Wentz was being talked about in terms of possibly being the league MVP. But Foles came out of nowhere like a knight in shining armor to do what Wentz may or may not have been able to do. What do you do with two guys of that caliber who both want to play and can do so at a high level. What are there two contractual arrangements like? Anyone know? But talk about trade up value, it's through the roof in this scenario.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby burrrton » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:44 pm

If by "interesting", you mean "a windfall", you're correct.

This makes their freaking *backup* worth high draft picks- there's no alternate reality in which Foles is considered close to the value of Wentz for that team.

Philly wasn't just cheering their Lombardi, they were cheering the pile of draft (or FA) capital that was just guaranteed to land in their laps.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby Old but Slow » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:49 pm

Lot to be said for Doug Pederson. Long term QB backup, from the same high school as Jake Locker, who has put himself in an interesting position in the coaching discussion. Losing your starting QB at the close of the season and then allow your backup to star.., that is fantasy stuff.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby trents » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:08 pm

By interesting I mean it may be setting up similar to the Garappalo situation with New England, i.e., wanting to keep an extremely capable backup who may not be content to be a backup while creating a feeling of insecurity and suspicion in the starter (Wentz) who may start looking over his shoulder.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby Old but Slow » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:53 pm

Not a bad situation for the Eagles.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby Zorn76 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:38 am

Not sure where Fole's contract is, but this would change nothing if I'm Philly's F.O.
Foles is now worth a mint in a trade, and you sell while stock is high if you risk losing him to free agency anyhow.

He had about as good a run as you can achieve, but the long term future still hasnt' changed, and that's Wentz.
That kid had Plenty with the Eagles getting HFA, which was key obviously in their run to SB.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby jshawaii22 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:24 am

Foles became an unrestricted Free Agent about the time he hoisted that MVP Trophy. OK, not until the first day of the next 'business year' unless the Eagles Franchise Tag him. That's a 20million (?) option that cuts into their cap, but with Wentz on his rookie deal, like Russell was a few years ago, the franchise tag for your 'backup' is not a cap killer. And, why would they trade him or Wentz? QB's are hard to come by. I expect both a playing for Philly next year, and I heard the Wentz's injury may put him on the shelf for the bulk of next year, too like what happened to Teddy Bridgewater.
He had a double knee rip, too.

js
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby HumanCockroach » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:02 am

Doubtful Foles remains in Philly, and honestly I'm not sure he's signed as a starter elsewhere for big money... thinking good but not great money on a short term deal somewhere to prove he isn't going to do what he did last time he was given huge money ( play exceedingly well after replacing an injured starter, only to stink up the field when signed to big bucks) ... could certainly be wrong, teams get stupid when it comes to QBS... maybe Arizona brings him back, or Cleveland offers him huge money to be the next QB flop there, Minnesota could be an interesting landing spot... who knows with QBS...

I seriously doubt Philly tags him, could create issues within the organization, they can't trade him( since he isn't their property, and tagging and trading seems highly unlikely. As that means the team that trades him pays the money and loses a pick or a couple picks to find out)... I'm guessing as prove it deal 10 to 14m a year, two year, with zero guaranteed money the second season... if he performs like the playoff Foles and not the end of the season Foles they'll extend him and give him big money before season two is even started .
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby RiverDog » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:19 am

Zorn76 wrote:Not sure where Fole's contract is, but this would change nothing if I'm Philly's F.O.
Foles is now worth a mint in a trade, and you sell while stock is high if you risk losing him to free agency anyhow.

He had about as good a run as you can achieve, but the long term future still hasnt' changed, and that's Wentz.
That kid had Plenty with the Eagles getting HFA, which was key obviously in their run to SB.


He's under contract with Philly for another year at $4M.

There's an old adage that says that you never lose your starting job due to injury. Wentz was having an MVP year when he went down so there really isn't any controversy or dilemma, at least not like the one that they might have in Minnesota with Case Keenum and an unproven Terry Bridgewater.

The obvious solution would be a trade if there's a team out there willing to give up at least a mid round draft pick, but it wouldn't be a bad idea if they simply kept him on the roster for another year as a backup.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby idhawkman » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:43 am

You can see the same "interesting" facts if you look at Todd Blackledge in that Giants SB win when their QB was hurt, too.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:08 am

I've got to congratulate Foles on quite a run.
Pedersen was smart in that he didn't change the Offense much but added in some plays that worked for Foles when Kelly was the coach.
He was in the right place at the right time to excel because the Coaches played to his strengths and not any of his weaknesses. Great coaching philosophy and job.
He now knows what it's like to be Tom Brady in being in the best situation for him. At least until Wentz is ready to return.

It looks like there is an option year after 2018 where either the player or team can cut the cord.

Some notes from Spotrac:
$7M fully guaranteed at signing (signing bonus+ 2017 salary + 2018 roster bonus)
2018 Roster Bonus: $3M
2019-2021 years automatically void if on the roster the 23rd day of the 2019 league year

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/philadelphia ... oles-9898/
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby mykc14 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:14 am

The obvious answer is to trade him, but it’s not that simple. Wentz is coming off of a pretty significant knee injury as he tore both his LCL and ACL. Conventional wisdom suggests that he should be ready by week 1, but there’s obviously no guarantee. It seems like the Eagles will hold onto Folds at least until they are sure Wentz is fine, which might not be until late training camp.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:33 am

mykc14 wrote:The obvious answer is to trade him, but it’s not that simple. Wentz is coming off of a pretty significant knee injury as he tore both his LCL and ACL. Conventional wisdom suggests that he should be ready by week 1, but there’s obviously no guarantee. It seems like the Eagles will hold onto Folds at least until they are sure Wentz is fine, which might not be until late training camp.


They can keep him for next year and then tag and trade him if he plays well in the regular season should Wentz be fine.
It would be odd to tag a backup QB, though but the salary wouldn't be too bad unless it's based on starting QB's.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby mykc14 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:24 am

NorthHawk wrote:They can keep him for next year and then tag and trade him if he plays well in the regular season should Wentz be fine.
It would be odd to tag a backup QB, though but the salary wouldn't be too bad unless it's based on starting QB's.


It is based on starting QB's. The 2018 tag for a QB is projected to be about 23.5 mil so next year it probably will be about 25 mil. Combine that with the fact that the Eagles are already projected to be over the cap next year and Wentz's cap hit will be about 8 mil and all of the sudden you have 33 mil in cap to your QB's. Seems like it would be tough to fit all of that when you are already over the cap.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby Zorn76 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 1:47 pm

There's no way they franchise Foles unless he's gonna start.
There's No team in the league that would pay a 2nd string guy to sit on the bench for 20+ mil per or so.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:33 am

I don’t know what the future holds for Foles but one thing is certain . The super bowl was won as much by his arm and smarts and poise as anything else. Lost in the blowout of the vikes was that in the first half the pressure by the vikes D was withering and some of the throws Foles was making were perfect though mail slots. In the SB he won a shootout and the trick play contest as well. The pressure to let him be a starter and for the team to receive max compensation will be strong
Unless Wendtz isn’t ready .
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:06 am

I read a comment this morning that the Eagles might keep him because of the way Wentz plays he has a higher probability of injury than other QB's so a very good backup might be a higher priority than other teams might think.

Edit:
If Wentz doesn't start playing like he left off and they lose some close games, there might be a QB controversy brewing, too so that's a factor their FO will have to consider.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:14 pm

There's a couple of other FA QB's out there (Cousins, Keenum, etc), so the Eagles might not get a good enough deal to justify trading him. And as has been mentioned, Wentz's return to form next season is not a foregone conclusion.

So I say that Foles stays put.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:21 pm

For right now, I agree, Foles should be staying put. It is in the best interest of the Eagles that he stay, for now anyways.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:53 am

NorthHawk wrote:I read a comment this morning that the Eagles might keep him because of the way Wentz plays he has a higher probability of injury than other QB's so a very good backup might be a higher priority than other teams might think.

Edit:
If Wentz doesn't start playing like he left off and they lose some close games, there might be a QB controversy brewing, too so that's a factor their FO will have to consider.


Their total QB Bill is less for the both of them than most teams w/ 1 @14 million. I’d keep Foles because coming back from a late ACL year is no guarantee. Foles may need to lead OTAs, TV and start off the season etc. Wentz kinda plays like Luck...w/ reckless abandon and we all saw Luck last year.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby HumanCockroach » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:07 pm

Teams are leary of paying backups more than starters, especially with young starters... creating the environment for QB controversy should there be struggles coming off a major injury typically isn't wise. Fracture of a team is a very real thing, and incredibly dangerous.
Last edited by HumanCockroach on Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:10 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Teams her leary of paying backups more than starters, especially with young starters... creating the environment for QB controversy should their be struggles coming off a major injury typically isn't wise. Fracture of a team is a very real thing, and incredibly dangerous.


There is that, but every team is different and maybe it's not a big deal for Wentz because he knows the salary slotting rules and that it might in some way free him to play his game knowing Foles can win if he gets hurt again.
The game's a lot easier to play for a young player when they know they don't have to carry the whole load.
I say Foles is there for 1 more season at least, but I don't follow the Eagles much.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:06 am

HumanCockroach wrote:Teams are leary of paying backups more than starters, especially with young starters... creating the environment for QB controversy should there be struggles coming off a major injury typically isn't wise. Fracture of a team is a very real thing, and incredibly dangerous.


If I'm an Eagles fan, I'd say that we cross that bridge when we come to it.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:01 pm

And if I'm an Eagles fan I don't want my first round mvp 3rd year QB looking over his shoulder constantly for some guy that minus the playoffs, and his first season in Philly been mediocre or worse. Just different views, certainly welcome to yours....

Also wouldn't be to keen on spending 20m dollars on a backup instead of investing in loading up with other players, resigning those to longer term deals etc. But like I said, just me.
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Re: Philly may have an interesting QB dilemma next year

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:11 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:And if I'm an Eagles fan I don't want my first round mvp 3rd year QB looking over his shoulder constantly for some guy that minus the playoffs, and his first season in Philly been mediocre or worse. Just different views, certainly welcome to yours....

Also wouldn't be to keen on spending 20m dollars on a backup instead of investing in loading up with other players, resigning those to longer term deals etc. But like I said, just me.


Let's see how it plays out. At this point, if I'm Philly, I wouldn't let Foles go unless someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Wentz's recovery and return to his previous form is far from a foregone conclusion. Philly has a window of opportunity, and they're a stronger team with Foles than without.

And as far as Wentz "looking over his shoulder", I'd say suck it up, buttercup! What's one of Pete's favorite mottos? Always compete?
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