Shead to Detroit

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Shead to Detroit

Postby Hawk Sista » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:37 am

Cupboards are getting bare.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby burrrton » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:58 am

It's become an exodus.

Man, I hope they have a plan in place.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:06 am

I won't say we are better with out him, but I didn't see him as irreplaceable. They better not lose Wagner and Thomas, though. Seems they have designs to get younger, and that's cool, but those guys would be essential to bringing along young talent quickly.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:58 am

Rumor among Cowboy sources is that we're negotiating the Cowboy's 1st round pick for Earl.

https://nesn.com/2018/03/nfl-rumors-her ... mas-trade/
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby burrrton » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:52 am

I guess we're blowing it up and starting over after all.

They should just trade Wagner and KJ and get it over with while they're at it.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby obiken » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:17 am

burrrton wrote:I guess we're blowing it up and starting over after all.

They should just trade Wagner and KJ and get it over with while they're at it.


I know its scary isn't it.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:09 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Rumor among Cowboy sources is that we're negotiating the Cowboy's 1st round pick for Earl.

https://nesn.com/2018/03/nfl-rumors-her ... mas-trade/


I read another rumor that the sticking point is how much ET wants to be paid.
He might be pricing himself out of a trade to play at home if true.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Largent80 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:24 pm

I doubt the Cowpies give up their first for a 29 year old ET.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:09 pm

Largent80 wrote:I doubt the Cowpies give up their first for a 29 year old ET.


As North indicated the sticky wicket is not the draft pick but the salary going forward, the cowgirls are in cap purgatory.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:48 pm

PFT is saying there may be more teams interested in ET than just the Cowboys, so maybe they will trade him.

I can see a team paying a 1st for a bona fide Pro Bowl/All Pro even at 29 if they think he is the key for them to go deep into the playoffs. A draft choice is just potential but you know that he can improve your Defense if he fits your system.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Hawk Sista » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:14 pm

Well, nobody is irreplaceable & Shead even less so. This off-season is a reminder that I should love my team and like its players. Bennett, Sherm, Avril, Kam, & possibly Earl in one season is tough to choke down. I cognitively get it, but it’s tough. Shead just feels like even our depth is leaking exacerbating my feelings.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Largent80 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:39 pm

Shead played zero snaps last year we do not need the guy.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:45 pm

I said before the fit hit the shan that other than Bobby and Russ everyone was in play, but it's still tough to watch guys like Sherm and Shead go to teams like the Niners and Lions ... ugh.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby RiverDog » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:06 pm

There's only one year left on Earl's contract, which could be a problem for a team he really doesn't want to go to. IMO it's Cowboys or bust for Earl.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby mykc14 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:17 pm

RiverDog wrote:There's only one year left on Earl's contract, which could be a problem for a team he really doesn't want to go to. IMO it's Cowboys or bust for Earl.


I think that’s a good possibility, but if somebody is willing to break the S market for him he might change his mind, especially if he thinks that team might compete soon.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Old but Slow » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:46 pm

It is getting interesting and puzzling, but a sports guru Jason La Comfortable, or something like that is tweeting that several teams are looking at Earl, and that he might bring a first and a third, and "maybe more". It seems over the top, but he is an unique player and personality, and it is not hard to understand how another team might see huge value in adding him. There is little question that he can make a defense better, and he likely has another 3-5 years of good play left.

The collapse of the LOB I am inclined to put at the feet of the defensive coordinator Richard. They did not seem the same happy cohesive group that they had been, and some of the conflicts were very apparent. My sense, what little I have, is that Earl would like to move on, make money, and establish his cred. No criticism here, as he has earned whatever he can get, and that is likely a rock face in the HOF.

Sorry to see Shead go, as I liked him as a depth player, but no pain, really.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Old but Slow » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:46 pm

The dreaded double post.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby HumanCockroach » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:47 am

They getting closer... 1st and a 3rd.... throw in a second and he's gone.... at that point, trade Wilson, Wagner, Baldwin, KJ as well, and have done with it. Ain't no reason to pretend any longer that you are trying to field a championship.... scratch that, playoff, scratch that, competitive team any longer.

We've already seen what Wilson carrying the team WITH ET does ( 9-7) drop your HOF safety for a couple picks, and you're looking at 7-9, 8-8 or worse ( and that doesn't even include Sherm , Bennett, Avril playing for 6 to 10 of them).

The team doesn't automatically get better because they get younger, have a feeling, we're going get to experience that first hand...
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Largent80 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:40 am

This is a thread about Shead and now it's an Earl thread so I'll chime in. ET is under contract for 1 year, and it's up to HIM if he wants to keep playing here, if he doesn't (and my intuition says NO because of his actions and verbage) then he will be shopped, and that is happening. Players that are grumbling or expressing doubts or are being greedy are getting cleaned our regardless of their abilities.

H'e 29 and has a couple years left barring injury. The Hawks will have 90 Million in cap next year, he would be a fool to force their hand right now.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Hawk Sista » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:30 am

Earl said he wouldn’t play w/o an extension. So we either pony up now and give him an extension, or get something for him. Last year - most of us were against the Sherman trade notion. Now after hindsight, it would’ve been better to get something for him than to have him just walk.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:51 am

Hawk Sista wrote:Earl said he wouldn’t play w/o an extension. So we either pony up now and give him an extension, or get something for him. Last year - most of us were against the Sherman trade notion. Now after hindsight, it would’ve been better to get something for him than to have him just walk.


It's where I'm at, too. I'd hate to see him go, but you have to face reality and there's a good possibility he would leave next year if they can't make a deal this year.
Couple it with his statement that he will hold out if he isn't extended and we have a situation where he's forcing the team to make some type of decision that could possibly not
be in the best interest of the team as it stands today. There are what some people call 'necessary evils' that we all face at some time or another and this seems to be one the team is facing now.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Largent80 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:58 am

Dallas is in cap hell and can't extend him so trading him there would be almost impossible. Cleveland has massive draft capital and money. That would suck for Earl but it is a business and that is what the players want.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby mykc14 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:07 am

Largent80 wrote:Dallas is in cap hell and can't extend him so trading him there would be almost impossible. Cleveland has massive draft capital and money. That would suck for Earl but it is a business and that is what the players want.


Yeah but Earl would have to agree to extend there for us to get much from the trade. That's why he actually does have a decent amount of leverage as to which teams we can trade him to. A team that is willing to give him a ton of money and us a ton of draft picks only works if ET is willing to sign an extension. My guess is that it would take a TON of money for ET to be willing to sign with a team like the Browns. Realistically there are only a handful of teams (4 or so) that are close enough to winning a SB that ET would want to go to and those teams need to have the 10 plus million in cap space and be willing to part with the draft capital required to sign him.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:26 am

I've said it before and still believe his best landing spot from a success PoV would be Atlanta where they need a FS and he would play for DQ and pair with Neal (who would play the Kam role in their Defense).
Atlanta has a history of making big deals and although their Cap isn't the greatest, they could move some salary around to get it done if they wanted.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby idhawkman » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:25 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:I said before the fit hit the shan that other than Bobby and Russ everyone was in play, but it's still tough to watch guys like Sherm and Shead go to teams like the Niners and Lions ... ugh.

Whole heartedly agree with you on the Wagner and Russ as the only ones that we must keep. KJ and ET have been great but the numbers don't lie when Bobby is out. Needless to say, Russ is the heart of the offense. I hope the new OC builds a game plan around his talents.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:10 am

mykc14 wrote:Yeah but Earl would have to agree to extend there for us to get much from the trade. That's why he actually does have a decent amount of leverage as to which teams we can trade him to. A team that is willing to give him a ton of money and us a ton of draft picks only works if ET is willing to sign an extension. My guess is that it would take a TON of money for ET to be willing to sign with a team like the Browns. Realistically there are only a handful of teams (4 or so) that are close enough to winning a SB that ET would want to go to and those teams need to have the 10 plus million in cap space and be willing to part with the draft capital required to sign him.


Plus Earl is in the last year of his contract, so if he nixes a trade, all he has to do is play out this coming season and he's a free agent. So yea, he has a lot of leverage.

I still think that Dallas is a viable destination. The Cowboys could clear a lot of cap space if they get rid of Dez Bryant, which has been rumored for months, and they have a number of other players that they might want to cut anyway. You know the saying...If there's a will, there's a way.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby mykc14 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:33 am

RiverDog wrote:Plus Earl is in the last year of his contract, so if he nixes a trade, all he has to do is play out this coming season and he's a free agent. So yea, he has a lot of leverage.


The Hawks could still F-tag him for at least another year. This year's S F-tag price was 11.6 mil, which is only a little over 1 mil more than he is making next year. The Hawks don't have to settle for trading him this year and expecting nothing. Another thing to think about is they can keep him for a year or two and still get a 3rd round comp pick when he signs elsewhere in Free Agency, so there is no real point (unless you don't want his salary) in giving him up for anything less than a #1 or multiple #2's. ET has a lot of leverage but the Hawks also have a lot of control. ET's control comes from the fact that he basically gets to choose where he goes (only a team that can re-sign him is going to trade what would be required to get him and he's only going to re-sign with a team he wants to go to). The Hawks have time. They can easily control him for 2 more years which could cost him a lot of money. Imagine him getting traded this year and signing a new deal at 29 compared to having to wait 2 years and sign a new deal at 31. It seems like that would cost him a lot of money, plus the F-tag is actually going to pay him less than he would make in the open market. He stands to lose a lot of money if he isn't resigned this off-season and the Hawks F-tag him next year.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:17 pm

He already talked about retirement, so I doubt he's worried about holding out 2 years before either trying to make a comeback or retire for good.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:28 pm

mykc14 wrote:The Hawks could still F-tag him for at least another year. This year's S F-tag price was 11.6 mil, which is only a little over 1 mil more than he is making next year. The Hawks don't have to settle for trading him this year and expecting nothing. Another thing to think about is they can keep him for a year or two and still get a 3rd round comp pick when he signs elsewhere in Free Agency, so there is no real point (unless you don't want his salary) in giving him up for anything less than a #1 or multiple #2's. ET has a lot of leverage but the Hawks also have a lot of control. ET's control comes from the fact that he basically gets to choose where he goes (only a team that can re-sign him is going to trade what would be required to get him and he's only going to re-sign with a team he wants to go to). The Hawks have time. They can easily control him for 2 more years which could cost him a lot of money. Imagine him getting traded this year and signing a new deal at 29 compared to having to wait 2 years and sign a new deal at 31. It seems like that would cost him a lot of money, plus the F-tag is actually going to pay him less than he would make in the open market. He stands to lose a lot of money if he isn't resigned this off-season and the Hawks F-tag him next year.


I forgot about the F-tag, but IMO it's not a good option. If Earl wants to stay, he'll sign an extension. If he's unhappy and wants out, it's not going to do him or the team any good to be pissed off going through the motions while playing under the F-tag. Plus that's just one more year to risk injury or a drop off in play. His value isn't going to get any higher than it is today.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby mykc14 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:50 pm

RiverDog wrote:
I forgot about the F-tag, but IMO it's not a good option. If Earl wants to stay, he'll sign an extension. If he's unhappy and wants out, it's not going to do him or the team any good to be pissed off going through the motions while playing under the F-tag. Plus that's just one more year to risk injury or a drop off in play. His value isn't going to get any higher than it is today.


I don't see the Hawks using it as a 'let's keep ET here as long as we can' type of thing. I just see it as adding leverage back to the Hawks. ET and other teams need to know the Hawks can control where he plays for 2 more years. If they did end up using it that would also give them next off-season to find a trade partner. The best option, if they can't come to some long-term extension, is obviously to trade him this off-season but teams and ET can't just sit back and think 'If nothing happens this season we will be able to sign him next year without having to give up any draft picks.' Another part of this, IMO is the draft. If we don't trade him by the draft I don't think it will happen this off-season.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:39 pm

From what I recall from reading about ET and his money, he doesn't need more, but won't sacrifice his health for less than what he views as what he's worth.
The leverage is all his. He can just not play if he doesn't get the money he deems appropriate and we get nothing from it.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby burrrton » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:12 pm

If he's unhappy and wants out, it's not going to do him or the team any good to be pissed off going through the motions while playing under the F-tag.


Agreed, and this is what I always said about Hutchinson.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby mykc14 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:37 pm

NorthHawk wrote:From what I recall from reading about ET and his money, he doesn't need more, but won't sacrifice his health for less than what he views as what he's worth.
The leverage is all his. He can just not play if he doesn't get the money he deems appropriate and we get nothing from it.


That's fine then he doesn't get paid. If he really is willing to hold out then call his bluff. He's walking away from 10 mil dollars plus delaying his Free Agency another year. If he wants to go out like Barry Sanders I would say ok. You played your whole career here and led us to a 2 SB's and 1 championship sweet! If you do play, though we will be controlling where you are the next 2 years.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby mykc14 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:39 pm

burrrton wrote:
Agreed, and this is what I always said about Hutchinson.


Yeah but the F-Tag is leverage for the team, plus do you really think he's going to tuck tail and pout? He would still be playing for a contract, he's going to continue to play all out. If he's here and healthy you are not going to get less than 100% effort.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby burrrton » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:55 pm

If he's here and healthy you are not going to get less than 100% effort.


Mmmm... you may be right. I have no reason to doubt Earl may behave differently, but in light of how we saw Hutch behave (petty), I think it's a rather safe bet he'd have been less likely (than Earl) to give 100%.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:13 pm

mykc14 wrote:Yeah but the F-Tag is leverage for the team, plus do you really think he's going to tuck tail and pout? He would still be playing for a contract, he's going to continue to play all out. If he's here and healthy you are not going to get less than 100% effort.


That's a huge assumption. I would like to think that Earl would be professional enough to give it his all no matter what his off field circumstances are, but we've all seen professional athletes tuck tail and pout and none of us know what's motivating Earl or anyone else. Plus it isn't all about on field performance. It's not going to do the team any good to have an All Pro malcontent in the locker room.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby mykc14 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:57 pm

RiverDog wrote:
That's a huge assumption. I would like to think that Earl would be professional enough to give it his all no matter what his off field circumstances are, but we've all seen professional athletes tuck tail and pout and none of us know what's motivating Earl or anyone else. Plus it isn't all about on field performance. It's not going to do the team any good to have an All Pro malcontent in the locker room.


As far as his on the field production there is almost no doubt in my mind that it would not fall off. By all accounts he is an extreme competitor and I don't see any way he ever gives less than 100% on the field PLUS he would be playing for his LAST big contract. As far as locker room issues I can't say for sure that wouldn't be an issue except to say that is a small part of the gamble if you do F-tag him. Again the F-tag in this situation wouldn't be to make him play another year in Seattle as he kicks and screams, that would be the worst case scenario (still not the end of the world as he plays for you then you probably get a 3rd round comp pick). Right now the fact that the Hawks can use the F-Tag next year gives the them leverage; not that they will use it but that they can. It means that they can ask for a #1 plus something else. To me it is pretty simple:

1) Try to resign him. If we can't then...
2) Try to trade him this off-season. Ask for a ton in return (a #1 plus something else). If you don't get what you want then...
3) Have him play next year and after the season still try to resign him. If you can't then...
4) F-Tag him. Try to trade him again (now you won't get as much in return, but you know you will more than likely get a 3rd if he plays under the F-Tag and then signs somewhere else next year so you are still holding out for a #2 or maybe a #3) if you can't then...
5) He plays out the F-Tag year. After the season you allow him to leave and collect your 3rd round comp selection.

In this scenario #5 is the worst case scenario but not the end of the world. You have the top S in the game playing 2 more of his prime years in Seattle and you still get a 3rd rounder when he leaves. Of course there are risks... He could get hurt and you get nothing. He could retire and you get nothing. His play could be so terrible that you don't get that 3rd round comp pick. He could be a malcontent in the locker room. Anyone of those could happen, but the most likely scenario would be scenarios 1-4. It is very unlikely that if he plays as himself next year you wouldn't be able to get at least a 2nd or 3rd for him.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:38 pm

mykc14 wrote:As far as his on the field production there is almost no doubt in my mind that it would not fall off. By all accounts he is an extreme competitor and I don't see any way he ever gives less than 100% on the field PLUS he would be playing for his LAST big contract. As far as locker room issues I can't say for sure that wouldn't be an issue except to say that is a small part of the gamble if you do F-tag him. Again the F-tag in this situation wouldn't be to make him play another year in Seattle as he kicks and screams, that would be the worst case scenario (still not the end of the world as he plays for you then you probably get a 3rd round comp pick). Right now the fact that the Hawks can use the F-Tag next year gives the them leverage; not that they will use it but that they can. It means that they can ask for a #1 plus something else. To me it is pretty simple:

1) Try to resign him. If we can't then...
2) Try to trade him this off-season. Ask for a ton in return (a #1 plus something else). If you don't get what you want then...
3) Have him play next year and after the season still try to resign him. If you can't then...
4) F-Tag him. Try to trade him again (now you won't get as much in return, but you know you will more than likely get a 3rd if he plays under the F-Tag and then signs somewhere else next year so you are still holding out for a #2 or maybe a #3) if you can't then...
5) He plays out the F-Tag year. After the season you allow him to leave and collect your 3rd round comp selection.

In this scenario #5 is the worst case scenario but not the end of the world. You have the top S in the game playing 2 more of his prime years in Seattle and you still get a 3rd rounder when he leaves. Of course there are risks... He could get hurt and you get nothing. He could retire and you get nothing. His play could be so terrible that you don't get that 3rd round comp pick. He could be a malcontent in the locker room. Anyone of those could happen, but the most likely scenario would be scenarios 1-4. It is very unlikely that if he plays as himself next year you wouldn't be able to get at least a 2nd or 3rd for him.


Like I said earlier, you are making one big assumption that Earl's performance would not drop off if he plays out his contract and we F-tag him. He's seen a lot of his teammates shipped off and a lot of his coaches hit the bricks. Plus you're assuming that he's going to remain physically healthy if he's going to perform at 100%, and like the rest of us, he's not getting any younger. He'd be 31 after playing out his F-tag season.

But we'll see. Frankly, I wouldn't mind taking a little less than the #1 plus price tag you've suggested if that's the best we could get. We have to realize that we're not going to get full market value given the leverage that Earl has.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:44 am

I don't see ET's performance ever falling off because of off field issues. Health, of course, that can't be helped, but he's not the type to give less than 100%.
I can see him just retiring if he doesn't get the respect (in the form of salary), but I see him as an all or nothing type of person and when he commits, he's all in regardless of what's going on outside the team.
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Re: Shead to Detroit

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:45 pm

If we can't afford a CB for 1.05 mil. then PETE WILL FAIL!!!

You are ALL going to be kicking yourselves that you placed so much "trust" in Pete and JS. Just WHAT has those two buffoons done the last FOUR seasons to justify that trust?? WHAT???
This of course is coming from the crowd that used to crow that you were Titmen, I.E. Trust in Tim people. How well did THAT work out??? I have watched the Hawks from their inception. Lived them, breathed them, especially those first several years when so many here in the Seattle area wanted nothing to do with them. Then there was the Ken Behring years, yet I have stayed with them. I have a RIGH to criticize and just because I do and I am it is ONLY because I love them so yet I see them going the WRONG WAY and that they took that wrong path even while they were at the height of their success.

The Hawks will NEVER again win an NFL championship under Pete. It is so obvious it is only blind faith that keeps most of you from accepting that PETE MUST GOI!
Seahawks4Ever
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