Pete Carroll's Message...

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Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:00 am

is stale, according to recently released cornerback Richard Sherman.

...that coach Pete Carroll's message had become stale with some of the team's longer-tenured players and suggested that it's not the type of thing that would happen in college, where rosters turn over regularly...."I think it was kind of philosophical on his part," Sherman said of Carroll.."A lot of us have been there six, seven, eight years, and his philosophy is more built for college. Four years, guys rotate in, rotate out, and so we had kind of heard all his stories, we had kind of heard every story, every funny anecdote that he had. And honestly because he just recycles them. And they're cool stories, they're great for team chemistry and building, etcetera, etcetera. But we had literally heard them all. We could recite them before he even started to say them."

There's more interesting stuff in the interview, but that one caught my eye as it's been a pet peeve of mine for some time. Definetly worth the read.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2278 ... came-stale
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Largent80 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:58 am

That's why the Patriots have been good for years, rotate these guys out. They get too big for their britches and become narcissists and greed mongers.

ET is next. Seriously, running over to the opposing coach after the game and saying come get me?......That's all you needed to hear.

Sherman was shopped before last season, his welcome was well worn out. Sour grapes because he got kicked out.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby mykc14 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:17 am

I read that article and there’s not much that’s too surprising coming from Shem. My problem is when he talks about things like riding the secondary and stuff like that. He was let go because the Hawks didn’t think he was worth $13 million. If they thought he was still an All pro he would have been retained. He wasn’t the player he was even 2 years ago, before his injury. IMO he didn’t get worse before his injury our pass rush did and PC knows that. Our secondary was dominant because of our pass rush (and ET, IMO). The rest can be interchangeable if you get to the QB.

As far as PCs Message getting stale that’s on the player, IMO. You need to realize that message and that speech aren’t always for you if you have been around the league for 5-6 years and are an all pro. Maybe it’s not always about you, maybe he’s speaking to the 45 guys in the room who haven’t found the success that you have. Take it a step further and why does it have to be about you? You don’t think players with long tenured coaches elsewhere can’t recite their coaches motivational messages? Tom Brady doesn’t know what Belichick is going to say? Hass, Walter Jones, SA, and all of those guys must have been excited to hear new motivational messages from Holmy each year. No, it’s the same everywhere but some players need it to be about them and Sherm is one of those guys.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Largent80 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:26 am

The modern NFL player has changed so much from when I grew up watching football. Guys like Merlin Olson would NEVER say this kind of stuff, and they made peanuts compared to what these guys make now.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ittle-bit/
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:06 am

What he said is true in any sport. Coaches (and people) only have so many effective ways to motivate where they can appear genuine in doing. Pro athletes know phonies when they see them so if a coach goes outside of his personality they pick up on it pretty quickly therefore after a number of years, the techniques and stories become stale. So if players start to tune out, either the coach goes or the players go - and that's where we are in part here. Combine that with a Salary Cap mess and something had to give. In Sherman's case was the doubt following his injury. It would be a lot tougher for the team to take if he couldn't play much this year and we had both he and Kam not playing but being paid over $20m. A team would lose its competitiveness pretty quickly with that much money sitting on the sidelines rehabbing.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Hawk Sista » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:17 am

Sherman has evolved into a self-centered brat. His inability to self reflect is astounding given how bright he is. So his IQ is high - good for him. His emotional IQ is very low & it saddens me to see him maneuver these last two years. The Jim Moore incident (& his bald faced lies about what he said afterward) was embarrassing. Add up his devolving side-line behavior, public comments, asking to be traded then ripping the Hawks and going to play for the Niners (w/ his immature ass comments about vengeance) & I’m done w/ him.

This article is more about Richard’s inability to become a component of the leadership & support Pete than it is about Pete.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:57 am

That's who he is and has always been. It's what got him to the top of his profession and he needs to be like that to be the best.
I can't fault him for it. It takes all kinds in this world and if you listen to what he says there is more often than not a dollop of truth in it.
I'm going to miss him here and hope he does well when not playing against us.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Largent80 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:14 am

Largent80 wrote:I think JS has had the most challenging position ever with what he inherited, and built and maintained. The downfall to me was the stuborness of the FO to move on from Bevell and Cable after SB 49. It was hard to sustain players buying in after that and you heard it and saw it.

That being said for Sherman to rip John and Pete just shows who he really is as a person. My wife is a professor of pshychology and a licensed marriage and personal counseling and she thinks he is a classic narcissist. So does my friend Hawkscanner over at .NET

This is his post copied.......

"This is the first post that I’ve had for awhile, as I’ve really wanted to sit back and evaluate the situation from afar … listen to all the analysis … and watch what actually happens. Now that the dominoes have started to really fall, it appears pretty clear from a big picture standpoint what’s happening.

710 ESPN’s Brock and Salk have been right on the money IMO in their evaluations of this team, where they’re at, and what the Seahawks are doing. And that is --

Whether or not you’re the Seahawks or the Patriots – the same exact thing is true. It doesn’t matter if you’re Pete Carroll (with the Pom Pom Pete Approach) … or Bill Belichick (with the My Way or the Highway Approach) – the brutal truth of the matter is regardless of the coaching approach, the message gets stale after awhile. After awhile, success is just not sustainable with the same group of players. Why? Human nature. After a time, people tend to tune out after they’ve heard the same message over and over again. That's why coaches and managers get fired so often.

Complacency sets in eventually as well IMO. When players get paid, when they are fat and happy, there is a human nature tendency to sit back on your laurels a bit. Carroll and others have said it (in one form or another) many times – We want our players young, poor, and hungry.

And as we all know as well, football is a young man’s game. This sport in particular will beat you up. Father Time is undefeated and football in particular will age you real quick. Carroll is always preaching about wanting guys who are young and flying around.

All of that inevitably leads to what we’ve seen and the moves that have been made thus far. But it goes beyond that IMO. What I’m going to say below is probably going to be highly unpopular for many people … but I honestly do believe that this is another BIG REASON why you’ve seen certain veterans cut loose. I’ll focus my comments specifically on that by discussing Richard Sherman (the biggest example and the one that's most forefront right now).

Let me say right up front that cutting Richard Sherman was the Bar None 100% Right Move for this Team Moving Forward …

Now, I love Richard Sherman the player and who he was on the field for this Seahawks team. I love the talent. Richard Sherman in his prime – I love his ability to be a shutdown corner – a guy who absolutely can change a game single-handedly. I will always be grateful for him and what he did for this Seahawks team. I will forever remember “the Tip” with great giddiness and childlike glee. In a lot of ways, he does and will always have a special place in my heart. He was a fantastic player for us – one of the all time Seahawk greats … AND it was definitely time to part ways with him.

Why?

It’s not just about the money. That’s a given that the Seahawks needed to cut him given how much money he was slated to make. It’s also not just because of his age, his physical status, and his Achilles injury (although that’s a huge reason why, given his age, and contract status they needed to cut him loose). No, there was a much bigger and more important reason (beyond the money, beyond the age, and beyond his health status) of why this was the right move IMO.

Coming into work this morning, I was listening Mike Salk on 710 ESPN going off on Richard Sherman, citing several incidences of him being “a liar” (in his words). He played several clips of past interviews – things that Sherman had said that were on record … that Sherman later said of that he was misquoted on or just flat out denied there was any evidence of him ever saying. [That’s known as Gaslighting by the way] He also played an audio clip of him telling Jim Moore that he was going to ruin his career.

All of that just made me laugh because all of that IMO just so shows who Sherman truly is. I’m a therapist by trade, so I'll share with you guys my perspective from the clinician's chair. Though I’ve always loved Richard Sherman the elite player … I’ve also always recognized that there would eventually come a time that the Seahawks needed to cut bait.

Over time it's become fairly clear that Richard Sherman … is a classic Narcissist. Textbook. Some of you out there who grew up with Narcissistic fathers or mothers know full well the pain of growing up with and dealing with these people. You guys will understand what I’m going to say. In a nutshell, these folks are some of the most difficult to treat and deal with bar none. Growing up in a Narcissistic home … can in a word be a nightmare. You see, as the name implies, Narcissists are all about only 1 person – themselves. They are ever only on 1 team … their own.

Narcissists are quite often highly engaging people. They are often very smart, highly articulate, well spoken, charismatic, confident individuals. They make for great interviews. They can be great leaders (as long as people go along with them). That’s what draws people to them.

However, there is a real serious downside to these kind of people. To say that they are self centered is a massive understatement. “It’s all about me” is the narcissistic person’s mantra. Image is everything. It’s about making the outside of my life look pretty … because on the inside, they feel there is a whole lot of “yuck.” When push comes to shove, Narcissists will choose themselves each and every time. It’s not about what’s best for the team or for others … it’s what best for me. If that’s all that personality type entailed, I’m sure many could overlook that. If you’ve ever lived or worked with a narcissist though … you will know full well just how divisive these people can be.

Narcissists are best of the best manipulators out there that there are. Bar none. They are amazing in their ability to cause division and pit people against one another. Once you really grasp what they are doing … it can be quite stunning to behold.

People have been talking about division in the locker room. There are clubhouse cancers (people have been saying). I would agree with you wholeheartedly and I fully believe Richard Sherman was one of those. You see, Full Blown Narcissists (as long as things are going THEIR WAY) … will be your best buddy. It’s when you’re the man in charge … and they start to disagree with you … that things will start to go awry. They are amazing in their ability to cause issues in a group. They are generally highly intelligent and manipulative to a stunning degree. They are really good at pitting people against one another and stirring up trouble.

You can deal with (put up with this kind of a personality) as long as the positives of what they bring to the table … outweigh all of the other nonsense. What happens when that player is no longer elite though? What happens when they’re NOT the best anymore (but they think they are)? What happens when someone who prides themselves on being the best (believes they are the best, the most beautiful, the most perfect) suddenly starts to realize that fragile fake image they’ve spent their entire existence trying so hard to maintain is starting to melt away? Then, it’s Uh-oh time. You don’t want to be anywhere around that. Let me tell you from experience, there are few things in life less pleasant than an aging Narcissist. That’s when they can start to get real nasty and vindictive. That’s when they become that unbearable cancer that you just can’t deal with anymore. Whether you’re talking Richard Sherman … Terrell Owens … or Deion Sanders … there comes a time when it’s just time to say goodbye.

And If threatened or hurt ... Narcissists will look punish those around them. If you disrespect them or harm them in any way, then Narcissists will tend to lash out. They will look to humiliate you, embarrass you, piss you off, etc. – to make themselves feel good. Why is it (of all teams out there) that Sherman decided to go the 49ers? Why them? The Seahawks most hated division rival, no less. Make no mistake about it folks. That move by Sherman I would say is exactly the kind of vengeance move that a Narcissist would make.

All of that is precisely why this team was in desperate need of cutting bait of guys like this. You can put up with prima donnas as long as they can continue to bring the house down … but when their vocals start to go, it’s time to drop the curtain.

Time for the next act folks – bring on the next generation of younger, cheaper, and highly driven players. The Patriots have gone through this same re-boot process time and time again. As painful as it is to watch for us, I would say that we’re just seeing the normal life cycle of the NFL. I have no idea exactly what to expect from this team (Wins and Losses wise this upcoming year) … but I’m convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is what had to happen."
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:29 am

I think you will find Pro Sports is full of narcissists. That huge belief in themselves is a big part of what got them to where they are and I would suggest there are still at least one on every team including ours.
I would guess it's a matter of the degree of narcissism that makes a player become a distraction or a detriment to his team and Sherman may have crossed that line the last couple of years to become a net negative.
It'll be interesting to see what happens if he can't perform at the level he used to be at. Will he become a problem then or will it change him in some way when he realizes he can't be that 26 year old player any more and move on to the next step in his life? One things for sure, it won't be our problem.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:58 am

I'm sure there are plenty of coaches with great motivational messages like Gus Bradley that couldn't get players to play well. There are guys like Bill Belichick that do the same things every year and wins. Same with Pete. Message is a very small part of being head coach as far as what he says. What matters is can he coach. Pete can. Can he develop players. Pete can. Players that are waiting for a coach to motivate them with his message won't make it in the NFL. If you're not one of the most self-motivated individuals on earth, you won't even make it to the NFL. Whenever I hear garbage like this from fans or players, I laugh. They have no idea what it takes to make it to the NFL and stay, much less become a superstar. The coach's message was stale the first year they came. What gets them up every day is the desire to be a pro football player. If they lose that, they're done. Their million dollar job is done.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Zorn76 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:21 pm

It's Carroll's 9th season with the team, so of course he's going to recycle certain things motivational wise, perhaps a lot of things.

Sherman's best days are behind him.
So are Bennett's.
So are Thomas's.

None of these guys are worth top dollar anymore, not when you consider that Father Time is now clearly visible in the review mirror, and closing in fast. They can pizz and moan all they want about respect, blah, blah, blah. But Every player knows - or should know - that the league is a business first, loyalty second.

If they choose to be ignorant, that's their own fault.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Seahawkgal » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:44 pm

I love this forum. Where all of the smart, loyal and logical Seahawk fans go. F**k .NET.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby The POPE » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:12 am

I cant wait to see Sherman play without Thomas to cover his ass, Sherman flourished in Pete's defense because of the range Thomas has to cover on the back end. Taking the 2 players into consideration, who made the most negative impact by their absence due to injury? In my opinion that would be Thomas. Without Earl, Sherman was not able to guess as much, or risk jumping routes without earl to cover his ass. IF SF doesn't have a safety with the abilities to cover Sherms ass, then he is much more vulnerable. Sherms success was due to the scheme he was placed in, the talent around him and his ability, in that order. Pete drafts players that fit the scheme with physical attributes and potential ability then coaches them up. Take any of those away and you have maybe a slightly above average cornerback. Now add injury and age and Sherms in for an awakening. The message has gotten old to the long time veterans and they think they can succeed outside of Seattle. I could see that being true with Earl, but I have my doubts with Sherman. Appreciate all Sherman did to help bring a championship to the Hawks. but also sick if his whining and grandstanding. Have fun in SF, There are many SF fans here at the Vatican and not a one is too excited about Sherm crossing to the other side.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Sat Mar 17, 2018 5:30 am

I agree with those that point out that Sherman's comments make him look really bad, sour grapes at best, a full blown narcissist at worst. It's one of the reasons why I had started to move away from Sherman several years before we released him. His going ballistic on reporter Jim Moore was the event that started my progression away from him.

Although Sherman's claims about Pete's management style are very believable, coming this close to his abrupt departure makes him look really bad. It's not surprising why the Hawks decided to get rid of him.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:39 am

I'm not so sure they would have got rid of him if his salary was in the $6 million range and the Cap was reasonable.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby burrrton » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:07 am

This article is more about Richard’s inability to become a component of the leadership & support Pete than it is about Pete.


Exactly, Sis.

Although Sherman's claims about Pete's management style are very believable, coming this close to his abrupt departure makes him look really bad.


Yup yup, and there's a weird conflict in his claims: if Pete's message is stale and it was time for him to move on, etc, what's with all the talk of "revenge"? Shouldn't he be glad they allowed him to go elsewhere?
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Futureite » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:30 am

mykc14 wrote:I read that article and there’s not much that’s too surprising coming from Shem. My problem is when he talks about things like riding the secondary and stuff like that. He was let go because the Hawks didn’t think he was worth $13 million. If they thought he was still an All pro he would have been retained. He wasn’t the player he was even 2 years ago, before his injury. IMO he didn’t get worse before his injury our pass rush did and PC knows that. Our secondary was dominant because of our pass rush (and ET, IMO). The rest can be interchangeable if you get to the QB.

As far as PCs Message getting stale that’s on the player, IMO. You need to realize that message and that speech aren’t always for you if you have been around the league for 5-6 years and are an all pro. Maybe it’s not always about you, maybe he’s speaking to the 45 guys in the room who haven’t found the success that you have. Take it a step further and why does it have to be about you? You don’t think players with long tenured coaches elsewhere can’t recite their coaches motivational messages? Tom Brady doesn’t know what Belichick is going to say? Hass, Walter Jones, SA, and all of those guys must have been excited to hear new motivational messages from Holmy each year. No, it’s the same everywhere but some players need it to be about them and Sherm is one of those guys.


I’ve said pretty much everything that’s being said in this thread for years here LOL. Other than the Carroll stuff. I still like his energy and approach to life. If I were a Hawks fan I probably wouldn’t want any player who can’t buy into that. The entire success of the org is due to his philosophy.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:00 am

Pete's philosophy at its core is competition.
If a player doesn't have the drive to always show he's the best then Pete doesn't want him. In this case, it's a lot about money and our lack of Cap room.
Sherman is exactly what he wants in a player. An overachiever who absolutely hates to lose.
If the 9ers are going to teach the same concepts and techniques that the Seahawks have been using, Sherman will be a real help with the other DBs in making sure things are done correctly.
He may be narcissistic but he wants to win real badly, too, and winning can satiate whatever need he requires to move forward without becoming disruptive.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Clem7 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:39 pm

I am totally on board with the current direction Pete and JS are moving in.
From Kam's hold out (yes that still bothers me), Bennett's Vegas whining, ET's Dallas locker visit and a hold out threat, Sherman's list of bullshot, etc., yes it is time to change.
It was a great run, but the above mentioned as well as some others are not the same people anymore. They are perhaps smarter in one sense, but not as good skill wise. They will not remain healthy like they did during the great run. And having reached the pinnacle and paid accordingly, the emotional immaturity has replaced the hungry prove yourself mettle they once had.
I don't think it will take long for this team to become a force again and willing to go thru the growing pains.
I would like to see ET dispatched as well but I am skeptical they will get the picks they want (similar scenario as last year with Sherman).
As to Pete's message, with the cap in the NFL, these roster churns happen. If Sherman wants to make this the big issue, he's grasping.
I am sorry that these Seahawk greats have become prima donnas. But they have.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:52 am

Clem7 wrote:I am totally on board with the current direction Pete and JS are moving in.
From Kam's hold out (yes that still bothers me), Bennett's Vegas whining, ET's Dallas locker visit and a hold out threat, Sherman's list of bullshot, etc., yes it is time to change.
It was a great run, but the above mentioned as well as some others are not the same people anymore. They are perhaps smarter in one sense, but not as good skill wise. They will not remain healthy like they did during the great run. And having reached the pinnacle and paid accordingly, the emotional immaturity has replaced the hungry prove yourself mettle they once had.
I don't think it will take long for this team to become a force again and willing to go thru the growing pains.
I would like to see ET dispatched as well but I am skeptical they will get the picks they want (similar scenario as last year with Sherman).
As to Pete's message, with the cap in the NFL, these roster churns happen. If Sherman wants to make this the big issue, he's grasping.
I am sorry that these Seahawk greats have become prima donnas. But they have.


Nice post, Clem. Spot on!
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:13 am

It's the inevitable changing of the guard. It's not a fun time when you have to say goodbye to players that have had so much success, but it's a reality in sports.
I've been on and off the Trade ET wagon, but realistically considering the extensions to both Kam and Sherm and the resulting Cap hits along with the unavoidable injuries, it may be time to get something for ET.
He's only 29, but he's also played the equivalent of almost a full year in the playoffs which would be about 9 seasons. That type of pressure and physical beating will wear on a player more than other games because the intensity of the moment of each playoff game is so high. If I were in JS shoes (and be glad I'm not, Seahawk fans), I would seriously consider taking a 2nd and 3rd this year and maybe another 2nd or 3rd next year.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:56 am

NorthHawk wrote:It's the inevitable changing of the guard. It's not a fun time when you have to say goodbye to players that have had so much success, but it's a reality in sports.
I've been on and off the Trade ET wagon, but realistically considering the extensions to both Kam and Sherm and the resulting Cap hits along with the unavoidable injuries, it may be time to get something for ET.
He's only 29, but he's also played the equivalent of almost a full year in the playoffs which would be about 9 seasons. That type of pressure and physical beating will wear on a player more than other games because the intensity of the moment of each playoff game is so high. If I were in JS shoes (and be glad I'm not, Seahawk fans), I would seriously consider taking a 2nd and 3rd this year and maybe another 2nd or 3rd next year.


You also have to throw in the fact that this is Earl's last year under contract, and it's very possible that he might not want to return for another contract. If we're going to trade him, now's the time. And as Belichek is well known to have said, you would rather trade a player a year too early than a year too late.

And like you, I've been mostly off the Trade Earl bandwagon, but given the changes of the past couple of weeks and the failure to go after/retain impact players in free agency, I'm on board with trading him. We've pretty much committed ourselves to a rebuild.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Clem7 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:37 pm

Thanks, RD.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby idhawkman » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:12 pm

Clem7 wrote:I am totally on board with the current direction Pete and JS are moving in.
From Kam's hold out (yes that still bothers me), Bennett's Vegas whining, ET's Dallas locker visit and a hold out threat, Sherman's list of bullshot, etc., yes it is time to change.
It was a great run, but the above mentioned as well as some others are not the same people anymore. They are perhaps smarter in one sense, but not as good skill wise. They will not remain healthy like they did during the great run. And having reached the pinnacle and paid accordingly, the emotional immaturity has replaced the hungry prove yourself mettle they once had.
I don't think it will take long for this team to become a force again and willing to go thru the growing pains.
I would like to see ET dispatched as well but I am skeptical they will get the picks they want (similar scenario as last year with Sherman).
As to Pete's message, with the cap in the NFL, these roster churns happen. If Sherman wants to make this the big issue, he's grasping.
I am sorry that these Seahawk greats have become prima donnas. But they have.

This is exactly what I "felt" watching the team play last year. Sherman's comments confirm that they stopped believing which might have had an impact on the 4th quarter of games and letting them slip away. I'm not trashing Sherman, I loved the guy playing for us for years and wish him well with his new team.

We need a wholesale new team that is committed to the "buy in" of Pete. This current team had lost the hunger for the championship. they all had gotten paid and found out that their pay was just as good if they went deep or not in the playoffs. We need young hungry players (preferrably on their first contract so they are cap friendly (which is just a nice way to say CHEAP)). None of our guys would play for that king of money, commit to the always compete or pull together to make a deep run like the 2014 season.

I also agree with the poster who said that keeping Richard and Bevel after that season was the wrong move for the team and that may be where the beginning of the end was started.

Here's to new hopes.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:31 am

idhawkman wrote:I also agree with the poster who said that keeping Richard and Bevel after that season was the wrong move for the team and that may be where the beginning of the end was started.


For the record and at the risk of tooting my own horn, I wanted to fire Bevell in the aftermath of SB 49 and predicted that failing to do so would divide the locker room. We've never been anywhere close to the team we had on that fateful day.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:37 am

Good thread and good points, all. Very nicely said, Clem.

I don’t know NorthHawk, however, that this is who Sherman has always been. If by that you mean a guy who needs to create a chip on his shoulder to be motivated, then yeah. I agree. And maybe he’s always had the potential, But from my view, it started primarily after the super bowl loss w/ the internal bickering, putting himself before the team, losing his mind after getting beat against Atlanta, yelling at Bevel (w/ faux apology that made it much worse), wanting to be traded last year, the Jim Moore debacle etc... he took ZERO accountability for surrendering 10 points in the 4th against the Pats to put us in a position to need a TD.

Pete’s message was also to let the players be themselves - which Sherm took FULL advantage of. & pete’s message was to put his players in a position to make the most of their skill-set which also benefited Sherman along w/ much more about Prtes’s Style. Sherm just can’t take it when the score/his stat-line don’t reflect his antics and his “I’m the best” Ali imitation. We have seen a few games w/o his peeps in the LOB and he was pointing and blaming anyone but himself. His comments post departure (to Seattle fans, about Pete and pot shots at RW) are further evidence that this was the right move, maybe just a little late.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Futureite » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:10 pm

Hawk Sista wrote:Good thread and good points, all. Very nicely said, Clem.

I don’t know NorthHawk, however, that this is who Sherman has always been. If by that you mean a guy who needs to create a chip on his shoulder to be motivated, then yeah. I agree. And maybe he’s always had the potential, But from my view, it started primarily after the super bowl loss w/ the internal bickering, putting himself before the team, losing his mind after getting beat against Atlanta, yelling at Bevel (w/ faux apology that made it much worse), wanting to be traded last year, the Jim Moore debacle etc... he took ZERO accountability for surrendering 10 points in the 4th against the Pats to put us in a position to need a TD.

Pete’s message was also to let the players be themselves - which Sherm took FULL advantage of. & pete’s message was to put his players in a position to make the most of their skill-set which also benefited Sherman along w/ much more about Prtes’s Style. Sherm just can’t take it when the score/his stat-line don’t reflect his antics and his “I’m the best” Ali imitation. We have seen a few games w/o his peeps in the LOB and he was pointing and blaming anyone but himself. His comments post departure (to Seattle fans, about Pete and pot shots at RW) are further evidence that this was the right move, maybe just a little late.


Everything you’re saying about him now has always been true. I get that you guys didn’t like an outsider saying it - especially one from your biggest rival - but it is what it is. Same guy. Just that no one likes the constant trashing of other people and boasting when you’re no longer winning, so then instead of being celebrated he becomes “selfish”. That’s literally the only difference. In fact, if anything he’s calmed it down and matured just a tad over the past yr or so.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:34 am

Futureite wrote:Everything you’re saying about him now has always been true. I get that you guys didn’t like an outsider saying it - especially one from your biggest rival - but it is what it is. Same guy. Just that no one likes the constant trashing of other people and boasting when you’re no longer winning, so then instead of being celebrated he becomes “selfish”. That’s literally the only difference. In fact, if anything he’s calmed it down and matured just a tad over the past yr or so.


No, it hasn't always been true.

Yes, Sherman has always been a trash talker, always gone off on rants against opponents' coaches and players (see Crabtree and Hairball), and most of the time, been able to back it up with his play.

But starting a couple of years ago, Sherman started venting his frustrations out on his own teammates with sideline outbursts, started calling out his own coaches, even threatened a long time local beat reporter. It was so bad that the Hawks were seeking a trade last season and might have been one of the causes for his eventual release this year. That has been a significant change of his behavior from what it was in the first few years he was with us, and caused many of his defenders, such as myself, to abandon him. He was becoming a locker room cancer.

What he's going to be like down in Santa Clara is anyone's guess. Richard Sherman is a man of many faces. If you win, everything will be fine. But if you don't win.....
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:48 am

I don't think Sherm has changed at all, he's a button pusher. Always has been. Now he's pushing our buttons ... ain't no thang.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Clem7 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:07 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:I don't think Sherm has changed at all, he's a button pusher. Always has been. Now he's pushing our buttons ... ain't no thang.


Being a button pusher is spot on.
But I think he has changed.
To me he has gone from being a button pusher playing within a System to a button pusher believing he IS the System.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Futureite » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:27 pm

Here is how I feel about him.

I always posted here that I don't "hate" him - and never did. I always thought Seattle fans gave him way too much credit for "getting in everyone's head". In reality, people were just reacting like normal human beings to the things he'd say. The problem is, he'd give so much material to react to week in and week out it virtually ensured that he remained in the spotlight. Which to some people equates to "he's in your head". He was in my head the same way Donald Trump is in my head. I turn on the TV, he's Tweeted or insulted someone and people talk about it. That's generally how people are.

Sherman, like Trump, has all the personality traits to be extremely likable. Both can be gregarious, engaging and likable. But each has the narcissi gene that takes them to jerk-mode in 1/2 second over virtually anything. I doubt Sherman is going to be a top shelf corner now, but as long as he's on the 49ers I just hope he represents us well and competes hard. I was already on the "cut Rueben Foster" bandwagon weeks ago. This team does not need to go backwards into distractions. I hope once I get to know Sherman more from local interviews, he shows a professional side and at that at least some of the ego and pettiness is behind him. Not holding my breath on that, but I will admit from what I have seen so far he is hard not to like.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:33 am

c_hawkbob wrote:I don't think Sherm has changed at all, he's a button pusher. Always has been. Now he's pushing our buttons ... ain't no thang.


The fact that he is a button pusher isn't debatable. He's always has been and always will be.

The difference is who's buttons he's pushing. Can you name any instance in his first couple of years of teammates, coaches, or beat reporters buttons he pushed that equates with the sideline rants, public remarks he made about Bevell's play calling, and the threats he made to Jim Moore?
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:39 am

Futureite wrote:Sherman, like Trump, has all the personality traits to be extremely likable.


Let's not drag political figures into a discussion in our football forum as it's going to encourage the thread to get diverted. Surley you can find a different analogy.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:30 am

I think that thought has gone through most people's minds, but kudos for most of the posters for not mentioning it.
If you do feel the need, go to the off topic side please.
To the comment at hand, he is likeable and he's very intelligent. His problem is he thinks he's always the smartest guy in the room.
He may be, considering the immediate audience, but it sometimes leads to him saying something dumb like his comment to Moore.
However, if you sift through any of side stuff, he often has an interesting point to make and he's not afraid to say it.
It can be a refreshing change from athletes who otherwise speak in cliches all of their career.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Futureite » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:54 am

Apologies for the Trump comment. I tried not to comment on any political position he’s taken Per say, and I debated whether to make the analogy in the first place. Will not do it again.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Largent80 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:26 am

Futureite wrote:Apologies for the Trump comment. I tried not to comment on any political position he’s taken Per say, and I debated whether to make the analogy in the first place.

Ummm. I hate Rump but rather enjoy Sherm so that was a really weird comparison.

I have attended 2 of his moms birthday parties and have met up with him 3 times, while he is gracious (around his mom) he is another person away from her. He is rather narcissistic so there is a comparison trait. Both of them you either like or hate. I'll never hate Sherm, Rump????....COMPLETELY different opinion.

I'll miss Beverly, and believe me, she is NOT happy about Richard being in SF.

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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Largent80 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:39 am

MY MESSAGE

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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby idhawkman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:13 am

Largent80 wrote: Ummm. I hate Rump but rather enjoy Sherm so that was a really weird comparison.

I have attended 2 of his moms birthday parties and have met up with him 3 times, while he is gracious (around his mom) he is another person away from her. He is rather narcissistic so there is a comparison trait. Both of them you either like or hate. I'll never hate Sherm, Rump????....COMPLETELY different opinion.

I'll miss Beverly, and believe me, she is NOT happy about Richard being in SF.


Maybe your bias is based on who you actually meet and get to spend time with and get to know. Just sayin'.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby idhawkman » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:14 am

RiverDog wrote:
Let's not drag political figures into a discussion in our football forum as it's going to encourage the thread to get diverted. Surley you can find a different analogy.

Yep, Riv. You were right.
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Re: Pete Carroll's Message...

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:01 am

OMG Sherman is a LYING NARCISSIST?? Then WTH is Pete Carroll??? Everything and I mean EVERYTHING that comes out of his mouth after a loss or another BAD roster move is a BALD FACED LIE.

What about all of Pete's lies about why the O-Line is leaky and can't block?? I don't know about many of you lemmings but I have had quite enough of Pete's incessant LIES about why our Hawks don't stand a chance to challenge for a championship under his leadership.

Go ahead, stick with Pete, for now. But, I GUARANTEE another season or so of mediocrity and you will be crying for his head too.

Talk about LIES, the biggest one is that B.S. someone in here posted saying that Richard Sherman's play had "fallen off" BEFORE he was injured last season. That is a BALD FACED LIE. It is PURE SPECULATION that since it was his ankle that maybe he will have "lost a step" or that he won't be a "shut down" corner "anymore". But, we DON"T KNOW now do we?? It is PURE SPECULATION.

Then, you have others say that maybe he could still play, but he was a lying B.S. artist and on THAT case he deserved to be cut.

THIS coming from the same crew that was salivating over the prospect of having that DIRTY PLAYER Suh playing for our Hawks!

You hear that sound?? No, neither did I but it was the CREDIBILITY of those who put down Sherm yet covet Suh.

Until a player signs that 2nd. contract all you hear is that he doesn't "deserve" more because he "hasn't done" anything, yet. Now, BOOM! A couple of years into that 2nd. contract, a contract that wasn't yet completed and now some of the SAME no nothings are saying that the said player is no longer worth the very same money that just last season, BEFORE he was injured not one of them would have argued that the player wasn't "worth it".

You know what that is called? Hypocrisy! I want to hear all of you tell Russell Wilson when he is up for contract renewal that he is NO LONGER WORTH the money the Hawks have been paying him. What if RW's player continues to spiral downward are you STILL going to say he should be cut or forced to take a pay cut? OF COURSE your wouldn't because you would recognize that it probably is not HIS FAULT.

Well hypocrites, you have made many claims as to WHY Sherm should have been CUT but the one that seems irrefutable was the one that he was OVER PAID. I call B.S. on THAT Claim. We will see this upcoming season if his play has fallen off, but I doubt it has. He will probably be better in 2019 than this upcoming season just because it takes a long time for an ankle surgery like Sherm had to return to 100% or close to 100%.

The REAL player you all should be mad at still plays and that is ET. ET is a TURN COAT and should be traded because how can you expect for ET to put his body on the line for a team he doesn't want to play for any more.

What ALL of you should be wondering and asking about is WHY a player like ET would want to bolt the Seahawks to play for the Cowboys and I will give you a clue, it isn't because Earl is from Texas, THAT is just a convenient EXCUSE.

The REASON you have a guy like ET wanting to leave is because they KNOW that Pete is NEVER going to change, not really. ET and other p0layers on defense UNDERSTAND that it will ALWAYS be the dense that will be put on the spot and have to cover for an inept offense. The players on defense are SICK of playing under those circumstances.

You should all THANK Richard Sherman for articulating what I think many other players (on defense) have been thinking since that terrible int. in the SB and Pete waiting until now to fire Bevell.

We were ALL frustrated that Pete seemed deaf, dumb, and blind to just how BAD an offensive coordinator DB was or acknowledge that Cable was NOT doing his job and that this whole idea of John Schneider to under pay players on the O-Line so that they can pay other players more money was NOT WORKING. All Sherm did was verbally point out what MANY of us were SAYING right here in this VERY FORUM.
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