Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

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Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:51 pm

Supposedly we were scheduled to give Colin Kaepernick a look-see but that it was postponed because he said that he would continue to kneel during the anthem:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/re ... tp&ffid=gz

This comes as a bit of a surprise as we all thought that our franchise was one of the most permissive in the league regarding personal conduct such as the anthem demonstrations. But it's fine with me. We don't need anymore distractions.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Apr 12, 2018 7:55 pm

PFT says that they sent out a refined version that stated they wanted to know how he planned to handle the situation going forward but Kaep didn't have one. They will reschedule a meeting at a later date when he has one.

Edit:
Here is the important quote

"Says Ian Rapoport of NFL Network: “The Seahawks did postpone a tentatively scheduled workout with Colin Kaepernick, as Adam Schefter reported. It was not because he said he declined to stop kneeling, tho. The team asked for his plan moving forward on how to handle everything and there was not a firm plan. . . . Seahawks brass, John Schneider and Pete Carroll, want Colin Kaepernick to consider how he wants to proceed on everything (not just anthem) and get together at a later date when his plans are formed. Clearly, Seattle has accepted players speaking out for what they believe"
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby Clem7 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 8:47 pm

Still hard for me to wrap my head around (and has been mentioned in various circles) the notion of hiring someone who is suing you.
Maybe that is part of "what is his plan going forward"? What else besides "kneeling" would involve a "plan going forward"? Haircut?
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby jshawaii22 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:16 pm

The Seahawks and their management aren't stupid, like PFT seems to blab today. If the Seahawks were just puppets of the NFL and Kaep was the target some kind of 'conspiracy', why would we even talk to him or his 'handler's' in the first place? It just opens a can-o-worms if we don't hire him, so we wouldn't bother.

As an outsider, the whole lawsuit thing is a joke. Put me on a jury.... so Mr. Kaep, do you think your totally crappy play the last two years in SFO has anything to do with your not being on an NFL team today? What about your demand to only sign as a 'starting' QB or your demand for 10+million contract? What about your 'veggie' diet that turned your arms into jello? Why would the NFL have to conspire against you when your play dictated the decisions?
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:19 am

NorthHawk wrote:"Says Ian Rapoport of NFL Network: “The Seahawks did postpone a tentatively scheduled workout with Colin Kaepernick, as Adam Schefter reported. It was not because he said he declined to stop kneeling, tho. The team asked for his plan moving forward on how to handle everything and there was not a firm plan. . . . Seahawks brass, John Schneider and Pete Carroll, want Colin Kaepernick to consider how he wants to proceed on everything (not just anthem) and get together at a later date when his plans are formed. Clearly, Seattle has accepted players speaking out for what they believe"


That sounds like damage control to me. What exactly do the Seahawks mean on a plan for "moving forward"? What else could it be besides kneeling? Do they ask everybody that they invite for a workout to state a "plan for moving forward"?

The only thing I can think of that the Seahawks are concerned about besides kneeling would be Kaepermick's collusion lawsuit. Perhaps they're insisting that he drop it before they bring him in for a workout, but even that seems unlikely as it would seem to me that such a requirement would violate labor laws unless they offer him a job.

Neither one, preventing a workout for either failing to promise not to kneel or dropping the lawsuit in advance of a workout, makes sense to me and on the surface seems illegal, unethical, and unnecessary. Just let him have the workout and go from there.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:34 am

The only thing I can think of that the Seahawks are concerned about besides kneeling would be Kaepermick's collusion lawsuit


And that's not enough?

Seems to me the collusion lawsuit is a much bigger deal than the kneeling. If I'm John or Paul I want to know if he's dropping the lawsuit first, then we can talk about the fact that last year, before the suit, he said that he was done kneeling, that he felt his point had been made and the discussion had been started, which was supposed to have been the point of his protest in the first place.

I don't think it's damage control, i think it's an honest reaction to new information and they want to know his intentions.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:48 am

c_hawkbob wrote:And that's not enough?

Seems to me the collusion lawsuit is a much bigger deal than the kneeling. If I'm John or Paul I want to know if he's dropping the lawsuit first, then we can talk about the fact that last year, before the suit, he said that he was done kneeling, that he felt his point had been made and the discussion had been started, which was supposed to have been the point of his protest in the first place.

I don't think it's damage control, i think it's an honest reaction to new information and they want to know his intentions.


Before we even work him out? Why not work him out first then if we are interested ask him if he's going to drop the lawsuit?

Even if it is completely legal to insist that he drop the lawsuit prior to what is essentially a job interview, why open a can of worms if we don't have to? It would seem to me that now that we've made a fuss of his lawsuit and/or kneeling that if we don't work him out, he can use it as evidence in his lawsuit.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:02 am

I didn't we insist he drop the lawsuit, I said we want to know his agenda before we spend the time and effort of putting him through a workout and physical. Why waste our time?
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:15 am

c_hawkbob wrote:I didn't we insist he drop the lawsuit, I said we want to know his agenda before we spend the time and effort of putting him through a workout and physical. Why waste our time?


Why did we schedule the workout in the first place if the lawsuit might be an issue? Why not ask him first what his plans are before we invite him for a workout?

And how much time are we wasting in a workout? A couple hours? How long does a physical take for a physician that's already on payroll? My guess is that it wouldn't take 30 minutes to give him a complete physical as he doesn't have any chronic conditions that might need Xrays or MRI's unless something were to become apparent in his workout.

And as I said, now that we're making a fuss about his politics, if that's what the hang up is, he might be able to use our refusal to even consider him due to his political views as evidence in his collusion lawsuit. We work him out and we can always say that our reasons for not bringing him in are all football related.

This all seems really strange to me.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:26 am

And I think we're just being prudent. "A couple of hours" (and it'd be at least 3 or 4 times that) is not nothing, there's a lot of things on a team's plate this time of year.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:06 am

c_hawkbob wrote:And I think we're just being prudent. "A couple of hours" (and it'd be at least 3 or 4 times that) is not nothing, there's a lot of things on a team's plate this time of year.


Well, I've never heard of a workout lasting more than a day, so I can't see one lasting AT LEAST 8 hours. But I'll accept your word that it's longer than a couple of hours and your point that Pete/John are plenty busy.

But my question that you didn't answer is if the lawsuit was going to be a problem, why we scheduled the workout in the first place. His lawsuit has been well known for a long time, if it was a potential problem for them, why not ask him first? Why now?
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby Clem7 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:13 am

I think the "going forward" involved will be his attitude whether he is all in on football focus first.
That being said, I wish we had not even gone down this road at all.
In any event, Hawks have signed Stephen Morris:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/se ... hp&ffid=gz
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:19 am

Clem7 wrote:I think the "going forward" involved will be his attitude whether he is all in on football focus first.
That being said, I wish we had not even gone down this road at all.
In any event, Hawks have signed Stephen Morris:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/se ... hp&ffid=gz


I couldn't highlight my question as to why we scheduled the workout in the first place any better than the statement below from the article above:

That news will stoke the controversy regarding the Seahawks’ dealings with Colin Kaepernick, whom they canceled a workout with when he wouldn’t commit to standing for the anthem. Kaepernick, the first NFL player to kneel for the national anthem, has been out of the NFL for more than a year. Kaepernick is alleging that NFL owners have illegally colluded to keep him out of the league.

The Hawks opened up a can of worms when they didn't have to.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby mykc14 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:50 am

RiverDog wrote:
I couldn't highlight my question as to why we scheduled the workout in the first place any better than the statement below from the article above:

That news will stoke the controversy regarding the Seahawks’ dealings with Colin Kaepernick, whom they canceled a workout with when he wouldn’t commit to standing for the anthem. Kaepernick, the first NFL player to kneel for the national anthem, has been out of the NFL for more than a year. Kaepernick is alleging that NFL owners have illegally colluded to keep him out of the league.

The Hawks opened up a can of worms when they didn't have to.


Am I missing something? The Hawks already met with and worked him out last year knowing that he might very well still kneel for the anthem. If it wasn't an issue last year why would it all of the sudden be this year. The only thing that has changed since last year is his lawsuit. Could PC, JS, or even PA all of the sudden take a stance that they are no longer going to sign 'kneelers' very doubtful IMO, but possible. It seems far more likely that they balked at the idea that he may not drop his collusion lawsuit if signed. It does not seem too far fetched for them to schedule a workout with him a week ago saying something like "hey we would like to have you in for a workout next week, but we need to know how you plan on going forward with your collusion lawsuit." With Kaepernick replying, "I don't know for sure about that give me a few days to think about it." Hawks: "Ok, let us know next week." Next Thrusday rolls around- Hawks: "Hey Kaep we need to know what you are thinking, we have a few options available and we need to make a decision about our backup Qb, a guy we like is getting interest from another team." Kaep, "Sorry, I still don't know for sure how I'm going to handle that." Hawks: "Ok, thanks. I think we are going to go in another direction right now, but let us know when you figure it out."

Obviously I wasn't there and I could be way off base but it seems more likely to me that if it wasn't an issue last year it's not an issue this year. It is also within the realm of possibility that they had him in last year and talked to him about how he would move forward with his protests in the future, didn't like his answer, and told him to talk to him later when he had a better plan. Again very doubtful, do you think Bennett, Sherman, or Baldwin would have not said anything if they would have found out that Kaepernick wasn't signed by the Hawks because of his activism? It also really feels against PC's and PA's MO.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:24 am

I'm pretty much in your corner, mykc14.
I got the impression they said they'd talk once he had a firm plan.

On another note, they signed a camp arm in Stephen Morris. He was on the Colts and Washington rosters but never thrown a pass in the NFL.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:07 am

mykc14 wrote:Am I missing something? The Hawks already met with and worked him out last year knowing that he might very well still kneel for the anthem. If it wasn't an issue last year why would it all of the sudden be this year. The only thing that has changed since last year is his lawsuit.


Last year prior to our working him out, Kaepernick had promised not to kneel during the anthem if another team wanted to sign him, that he had made his point and was moving on. Now just recently, he's made statements indicating that he will kneel during the anthem.

Could PC, JS, or even PA all of the sudden take a stance that they are no longer going to sign 'kneelers' very doubtful IMO, but possible. It seems far more likely that they balked at the idea that he may not drop his collusion lawsuit if signed.


I'm not sure how many of last year's Hawks were kneelers, but we did get rid of two of them, Michael Bennett and Jeremy Lane, so maybe they have made a decision that they don't want anymore political statements and/or distractions. So the answer to your question is yes, it is possible that PC, JS, and/or PA changed their minds.

And although I'm not a labor law expert, it seems very unethical for a prospective employer to demand that a potential employee cease something that is clearly his right to do before even considering him for employment.

It does not seem too far fetched for them to schedule a workout with him a week ago saying something like "hey we would like to have you in for a workout next week, but we need to know how you plan on going forward with your collusion lawsuit." With Kaepernick replying, "I don't know for sure about that give me a few days to think about it." Hawks: "Ok, let us know next week." Next Thrusday rolls around- Hawks: "Hey Kaep we need to know what you are thinking, we have a few options available and we need to make a decision about our backup Qb, a guy we like is getting interest from another team." Kaep, "Sorry, I still don't know for sure how I'm going to handle that." Hawks: "Ok, thanks. I think we are going to go in another direction right now, but let us know when you figure it out."


That's possible, but Kaepernick seems to be pretty desperate for a job. His biological clock is ticking and this might be his last chance to get back into the league. It would seem to me that he'd be bending over backwards to get a chance to compete.

I'm at a loss to explain this.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby burrrton » Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:40 am

And although I'm not a labor law expert, it seems very unethical for a prospective employer to demand that a potential employee cease something that is clearly his right to do before even considering him for employment.


I can think of a million different things I have a right to do that a potential employer could ask me *not* to do on company time/property if I wanted to work for them.

I'm at a loss to explain this.


So am I- why in the name of all that's Holy would we consider signing this divisive a figure for a position as inconsequential as backup QB?
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:18 am

burrrton wrote:So am I- why in the name of all that's Holy would we consider signing this divisive a figure for a position as inconsequential as backup QB?


If he were suing the Seahawks, then I could see it. But he's not suing them, he suing the league.

If a potential employee that was in a legal process of suing a past employer for an unfair work practice, I don't think that a prospective employer can use dropping that action as a condition for employment. His action against a past employer is none of the prospective employer's business.

But like I said, I'm no legal expert, and you would think that if it were illegal, that the Hawks would know better.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby burrrton » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:40 am

His action against a past employer is none of the prospective employer's business.


Eh, not so sure. I don't think, for instance, the Hanford whistleblowers are likely to be hired back on.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:51 am

So am I- why in the name of all that's Holy would we consider signing this divisive a figure for a position as inconsequential as backup QB?


Because Pete (rightly or wrongly) thinks he might be able to get a backup who is good enough to start.
Why would they want a plan from him? To see if he would fit with the existing leadership like Doug Baldwin and the direction the team is currently going.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:38 pm

RiverDog wrote:Why did we schedule the workout in the first place if the lawsuit might be an issue? Why not ask him first what his plans are before we invite him for a workout?

And how much time are we wasting in a workout? A couple hours? How long does a physical take for a physician that's already on payroll? My guess is that it wouldn't take 30 minutes to give him a complete physical as he doesn't have any chronic conditions that might need Xrays or MRI's unless something were to become apparent in his workout.

And as I said, now that we're making a fuss about his politics, if that's what the hang up is, he might be able to use our refusal to even consider him due to his political views as evidence in his collusion lawsuit. We work him out and we can always say that our reasons for not bringing him in are all football related.

This all seems really strange to me.


As far as that, I think they wanted to see him face to face to ask him. Easier to read a person than over a call or through a rep or email.

That being said, pretty dumb move. Kaep is a polarizing figure and will polarize any fan base. For all the fans saying they don't care, there are just as many that do care. Losing 20 to 50% of your fan support due to one guy kneeling is a waste of time. Now Pete and John brought the spotlight onto Seattle for nothing. Dumb PR move. Now the rabid "Kaep is being punished for his stance" crowd will come after Seattle. This just wasn't smart at all. It's like they want to find the next Marshawn so badly, they are willing to reach into any corner. Great, they took a problem player like Marshawn and turned him into a borderline Hall of Fame player. They should be happy with the unique turnaround, but they shouldn't rely on it.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby mykc14 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:56 pm

RiverDog wrote:A) Last year prior to our working him out, Kaepernick had promised not to kneel during the anthem if another team wanted to sign him, that he had made his point and was moving on. Now just recently, he's made statements indicating that he will kneel during the anthem.

B)I'm not sure how many of last year's Hawks were kneelers, but we did get rid of two of them, Michael Bennett and Jeremy Lane, so maybe they have made a decision that they don't want anymore political statements and/or distractions. So the answer to your question is yes, it is possible that PC, JS, and/or PA changed their minds.

c) And although I'm not a labor law expert, it seems very unethical for a prospective employer to demand that a potential employee cease something that is clearly his right to do before even considering him for employment.

D) That's possible, but Kaepernick seems to be pretty desperate for a job. His biological clock is ticking and this might be his last chance to get back into the league. It would seem to me that he'd be bending over backwards to get a chance to compete.



A) As far as Kaepernick promising not to kneel last off-season I don't know if he actually said that. I remembered reading about how he wasn't going to kneel anymore but can't find anywhere where it actually says he did. I did find this however:

http://www.heraldnet.com/sports/kaepern ... s-for-nfl/

So maybe he didn't?

B) I know we have gotten rid of Lane and Bennett, although Lane's release was pretty clearly due to production. I know of 9 other Hawks who knelt for the anthem last year: Avril, Clark, Marcus Smith, Jefferson, Reed, S. Richardson, Jackson, Brown, and Whilhoite. Although some are gone there are still some who remain. As many of those are still on the team it would continue to suggest that they haven't changed their minds.

C) I very much doubt they were demanding he do anything, at least not publicly. It wouldn't be wrong to ask if a perspective employee has a regarding a matter that could very much influence the team. For instance, if a player had legal trouble a team could certainly discuss that with them and decide not to bring them in for a workout based on how they were moving forward with that. Lets say I had a lawsuit ongoing with a former employer a prospective employer could certainly decide not to interview me if I couldn't adequately explain my plan going forward with that lawsuit.

D) He is getting older, but I'm not so sure he is bending over backwards to get a job. He probably stands to make more money if he wins his lawsuit. Also, It's not like he has been doing much of anything to repair his image among NFL GM's (see point A). I do think he wants to play in the NFL again, but maybe not as much as he wants to continue to be a social justice warrior or win his lawsuit.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:28 pm

mykc14 wrote:A) As far as Kaepernick promising not to kneel last off-season I don't know if he actually said that. I remembered reading about how he wasn't going to kneel anymore but can't find anywhere where it actually says he did. So maybe he didn't?


That's an interesting story about Kaepernick and his promise not to kneel. I thought it was common knowledge that he said it, but I guess not. Nevertheless, the Hawks might have been under the assumption that he wouldn't until his recent comments that he would.

B) I know we have gotten rid of Lane and Bennett, although Lane's release was pretty clearly due to production. I know of 9 other Hawks who knelt for the anthem last year: Avril, Clark, Marcus Smith, Jefferson, Reed, S. Richardson, Jackson, Brown, and Whilhoite. Although some are gone there are still some who remain. As many of those are still on the team it would continue to suggest that they haven't changed their minds.


J/B the Hawks still have some kneelers on the team doesn't mean that we haven't changed the policy, but you're probably right. But Kaepernick is a huge lightning rod compared to all of those guys you've listed. Don't forget, he's done more than just kneel. Remember the piggy socks, the Castro tee shirt, and his saying that he didn't vote in the last election?

C) I very much doubt they were demanding he do anything, at least not publicly. It wouldn't be wrong to ask if a perspective employee has a regarding a matter that could very much influence the team. For instance, if a player had legal trouble a team could certainly discuss that with them and decide not to bring them in for a workout based on how they were moving forward with that. Lets say I had a lawsuit ongoing with a former employer a prospective employer could certainly decide not to interview me if I couldn't adequately explain my plan going forward with that lawsuit.


IMO it's OK to inquire about legal "trouble" such as bankruptcies, garnishments, and most certainly crimes they've been convicted of. But filing a lawsuit is not legal "trouble", at least not for Kaepernick. I don't see what Kaepernick intends to do with his lawsuit is any business of the Seahawks as it doesn't involve them, at least not directly. If I were suing the water works for not providing adequate service, is that any business of the electric company?

D) He is getting older, but I'm not so sure he is bending over backwards to get a job. He probably stands to make more money if he wins his lawsuit. Also, It's not like he has been doing much of anything to repair his image among NFL GM's (see point A). I do think he wants to play in the NFL again, but maybe not as much as he wants to continue to be a social justice warrior or win his lawsuit.


Perhaps. Maybe he's just going through the motions just because it would help his prospects in his lawsuit. But I can't see where he would have a whole lot of confidence that he's going to win it. Although there's undoubtedly individual teams that have passed on him because of his politics, I haven't seen any evidence of a collusion between any of the owners.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby NorthHawk » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:46 pm

They aren't getting rid of players because they knelt.
They are getting rid of players that either no longer buy in or are too expensive relative to their productivity.
Baldwin was/is a ringleader and there's no talk of jettisoning him, and there are other players we don't hear much about, too.
I think Kaep is still on their radar.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:42 pm

Cbob, I hate to say that I told you so, but....

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are also expected to sit for deposition this month, when they will likely be asked why they canceled a workout with Kaepernick this week before signing Stephen Morris to back up Russell Wilson.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/colin-kaepernick’s-lawyers-to-depose-roger-goodell-pete-carroll-in-collusion-case-report-says/ar-AAvQSyE?ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:45 pm

If that turns out to be true, just another reason why it was stupid for Pete and John to do this in the first place. Sheesh. Why such a dumb, unnecessary move.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby Clem7 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:02 pm

RiverDog wrote:Cbob, I hate to say that I told you so, but....

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are also expected to sit for deposition this month, when they will likely be asked why they canceled a workout with Kaepernick this week before signing Stephen Morris to back up Russell Wilson.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/colin-kaepernick’s-lawyers-to-depose-roger-goodell-pete-carroll-in-collusion-case-report-says/ar-AAvQSyE?ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz


Any chance in Hades that Kap lands with a team now?
If you call him in you have two choices: 1) sign him 2) if you don't you will be questioned in a collusion case.
If Kap wasn't poison before, he sure is now.
I think Carrol and JS will legitimately pass the "test", but as others say "why even test these waters"?
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby mykc14 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:15 pm

RiverDog wrote:Cbob, I hate to say that I told you so, but....

Seahawks head coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider are also expected to sit for deposition this month, when they will likely be asked why they canceled a workout with Kaepernick this week before signing Stephen Morris to back up Russell Wilson.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/colin-kaepernick’s-lawyers-to-depose-roger-goodell-pete-carroll-in-collusion-case-report-says/ar-AAvQSyE?ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz


Link doesn’t seem to be working for me but this isn’t I told you anything. They were going to be sitting for a deposition anyway, regardless of this most recent situation. Whoever wrote the article thinks they will be asked questions about this, it certainly doesn’t mean they will be asked questions or that there answers will have nothing to do with his kneeling. More conjecture from a writer...
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:42 pm

mykc14 wrote:Link doesn’t seem to be working for me but this isn’t I told you anything. They were going to be sitting for a deposition anyway, regardless of this most recent situation. Whoever wrote the article thinks they will be asked questions about this, it certainly doesn’t mean they will be asked questions or that there answers will have nothing to do with his kneeling. More conjecture from a writer...


Perhaps PC and JS were already scheduled, but the "I told you so" pertained to the discussion Cbob and I had earlier in the thread where I said that the Seahawks postponing the workout could be used as evidence in Kaepernick's collusion lawsuit, and the article suggests the exact same thing.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby mykc14 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:29 pm

RiverDog wrote:
Perhaps PC and JS were already scheduled, but the "I told you so" pertained to the discussion Cbob and I had earlier in the thread where I said that the Seahawks postponing the workout could be used as evidence in Kaepernick's collusion lawsuit, and the article suggests the exact same thing.


Yeah I saw that, I didn’t see that Bob disagreed that it would/could be used.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby burrrton » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:07 pm

I'll throw in a little "I told you so", too- when you show you're a person willing to sue for almost literally anything, employers will tread carefully.

"Public @sshole with declining talent having trouble finding work. Film at 11."
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:17 am

burrrton wrote:Eh, not so sure. I don't think, for instance, the Hanford whistleblowers are likely to be hired back on.


Perhaps not with any of the Hanford area businesses. But other employers within the same industry?

I know it is illegal to use a prospective employee's history of union activism as a reason not to hire them, so I would surmise that it would also be illegal for a prospective employer to refuse to hire an individual that had called a regulatory agency. Heck, it's illegal for companies to even compare notes on prospective employees. The only information my former employer would disclose about a former employee is the dates of employment and salary history, which is unfortunate because we couldn't give out recommendations (which I did anyway).

Edit: Here's something I came up with from the EEOC:

Under the laws enforced by EEOC, it is illegal to discriminate against someone (applicant or employee) because of that person's race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. It is also illegal to retaliate against a person because he or she complained about discrimination, filed a charge of discrimination, or participated in an employment discrimination investigation or lawsuit.

https://www.eeoc.gov//laws/practices/
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:35 am

mykc14 wrote:Yeah I saw that, I didn’t see that Bob disagreed that it would/could be used.


I'll let Cbob speak for himself, but I don't think he disagreed, he just didn't acknowledge it. It's not often I get an "I told you so", let alone one with him, so I had to take full advantage of it. :D
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby mykc14 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:12 am

RiverDog wrote:
I'll let Cbob speak for himself, but I don't think he disagreed, he just didn't acknowledge it. It's not often I get an "I told you so", let alone one with him, so I had to take full advantage of it. :D


Roger that big Dog... I’ll let you two battle this one out!!
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby burrrton » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:30 am

RiverDog wrote:Perhaps not with any of the Hanford area businesses. But other employers within the same industry?


I don't know- maybe in other areas where they don't know you, but I knew a prominent whistleblower back in the 90s. There was *no way* he was ever going to work on site again. He moved to New Mexico last I heard.

That EEOC information on retaliation applies to current employers, I think. *Prospective* employers can't discriminate based on your race, sex, etc, but it's not retaliation if they decline to hire me if my name was all over the news making my previous employer look bad.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby c_hawkbob » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:24 am

mykc14 wrote:Yeah I saw that, I didn’t see that Bob disagreed that it would/could be used.

RiverDog wrote:I'll let Cbob speak for himself, but I don't think he disagreed, he just didn't acknowledge it. It's not often I get an "I told you so", let alone one with him, so I had to take full advantage of it. :D


I'll give you this I told you so Riv, at least in that you did in fact say it ... but I don't really think it changes anything I said. Or that anything will come of it for that matter. At not unless they can prove that John cancelled the visit after having discussed it among other GM's and deciding they would not do so unless he promised not to kneel, or did so on orders from Paul after a similar meeting with other owners.

As a team we can hire or not hire whoever we want on any criteria we want other than race, religion or sexual preference.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:21 pm

burrrton wrote:That EEOC information on retaliation applies to current employers, I think. *Prospective* employers can't discriminate based on your race, sex, etc, but it's not retaliation if they decline to hire me if my name was all over the news making my previous employer look bad.


I thought of that, too, except that the regs don't say "employee", it says "a person", which IMO could be an applicant, a vendor, a customer, or anyone else associated with the business.

I know for a fact that on the job harrassment can involve anyone associated with the business. Whether or not that relationship extends to something we're talking about, I honestly don't know.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby RiverDog » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:41 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:I'll give you this I told you so Riv, at least in that you did in fact say it ... but I don't really think it changes anything I said. Or that anything will come of it for that matter. At not unless they can prove that John cancelled the visit after having discussed it among other GM's and deciding they would not do so unless he promised not to kneel, or did so on orders from Paul after a similar meeting with other owners.

As a team we can hire or not hire whoever we want on any criteria we want other than race, religion or sexual preference.


I agree with your first paragraph. So long as we're acting independently, there's nothing wrong with refusing to bring in Kaepernick based on his predicted behavior. But nevertheless, it will be used as evidence to establish the fact that multiple teams are refusing to hire him because of his anthem protests and from there, they can work on the collusion aspect. And who knows what they'll find if they start digging around JS's emails and text messages. I'd like to think that he's not stupid enough to say something that could be construed as collusion, but you never know.

It would have been much better if we weren't a party to this controversy as it's just one more non football distraction that we don't need. And I would still like an explanation as to why we scheduled the workout in the first place.

I think there's a few more criteria in your last sentence, like creed and national origin. It's probably better to say protected status.
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby burrrton » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:32 pm

I thought of that, too, except that the regs don't say "employee", it says "a person", which IMO could be an applicant, a vendor, a customer, or anyone else associated with the business.


Well, it's what I believe is implied in the word "retaliation", which is generally considered 'payback' for something someone's done to you. It seems pretty tough to argue a company declining to hire me because I'm a well-known a-hole is anything approaching that.

Or maybe I'm wrong. When does camp start?
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Re: Kaepernick's Seahawk Workout Postponed...

Postby c_hawkbob » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:57 pm

RiverDog wrote:
I think there's a few more criteria in your last sentence, like creed and national origin.


Effectively covered by race and religion, but you're welcome to your technicalities if you must.
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