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Carson is a beast and Davis is too
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DpJ8PEHWsAA_ljp.jpg

Wait... I thought it was the amazing Penny that was the beast.... lmfao

HumanCockroach wrote:Wait... I thought it was the amazing Penny that was the beast.... lmfao

wow you just have to try to get a plug. my point with you with regards to Penny is that he has not had enough chances to prove what he can or cannot do and you just got hard headed. I understand sometimes it takes time for a college player to figure it out in the pro's and when you get few carries its harder. SOmething you dont seem to get you just like to pick out whipping boys and then you just hate on them, no matte unrealistic it is.

Carson kept us in a tough cowboys game and is looking like a young AP.

I don't typically expect RBs to blow the doors off in year one. I'll give him a year, then well see maybe.

Even thinking about Penny is a moot point right now IMO, since we have 2 other productive RB's. Eventually, though, we will need to lean on Penny, and he will have his chance to show what he can do. I think everyone is realizing how much better the run blocking is, so if they continue to grow, I think Penny will have room to run when it's time.

Carson also drinks honey straight up. Makes sense; he needs the calories and the carbs, but I think that's hilarious.

Penny had a very nice couple plays.... probably where he should stay 3 to 5 touches a game, and probably in space ( like the screen) where there's little decision making necessary, but a small amount of improvement..... still miles from being on par with Carson, or even Davis, but there's talent there, whether it's Micheal talent that never really pans out or not remains to be seen ( as Michael would also show flashes) but a few touches a game won't consistently implode the offense as it did in Denver and Chicago... ( would be nice to see a decent return next game, hopefully, ST blocking improves, and he's more decisive).

Gurley wasn't that good the first year or so he was with the Rams and he was a starter there. I know he also got hurt but it might take a few games for Penny to learn how to use the blockers. I think Penny is a more patient runner whereas Carson and Davis are more aggressive at the LOS.

I honestly don't see that with Carson, sets his blocks up, and explodes once he does. Patience is great, as long as the decision is made, Penny hasn't shown that ability yet.

Comparing Penny to really any other exceptional back is kind of pointless at this point, as he hasn't shown really much of anything. Lots of great backs slow out of the gate, but 5000x that amount slow out of the gate, that never developed into a great back.

idhawkman wrote:Gurley wasn't that good the first year or so he was with the Rams and he was a starter there. I know he also got hurt but it might take a few games for Penny to learn how to use the blockers. I think Penny is a more patient runner whereas Carson and Davis are more aggressive at the LOS.

I think using Penny as a 3rd down back can work, he is a really good receiver. I agree he is patient, but I also see a great burst when he sees the whole. Right now I think he is getting used to the speed, and once he gets it down he will be fine. Its funny I was not a fan of the choice or of the player, his running style reminds me of another former Hawk I could not stand Alexander. However, Penny does one thing really well that Alexander refused to do and that is catching the ball. Once he gets used to the speed and believing what is eye see I think he will contribute, and most likely make the fragile Prosise no longer needed.

Procise already no longer needed, he was insurance until McKissic was back, but with Penny growing ability in passing game, and JDs health returning, holding on to Procise is a luxury, not a necessity.

Perhaps they can trade him for a late round pick, if not, likely he is cut within the next 2 to 3 weeks, barring injury.

I do question the pass protection ability of Penny, as seattle clearly still prefers Davis in that role, tipping your hat can be a mistake, and nobody buys Davis split out wide when they go to an empty backfield.... Penny creates doubt in that circumstance, Davis doesn't.

HumanCockroach wrote:Procise already no longer needed, he was insurance until McKissic was back, but with Penny growing ability in passing game, and JDs health returning, holding on to Procise is a luxury, not a necessity.

Perhaps they can trade him for a late round pick, if not, likely he is cut within the next 2 to 3 weeks, barring injury.

I do question the pass protection ability of Penny, as seattle clearly still prefers Davis in that role, tipping your hat can be a mistake, and nobody buys Davis split out wide when they ho to an empty backfield.... Penny creates doubt in that circumstance, Davis doesn't.

Agreed hopefully Penny can grow his blocking skills as well. One thing is for sure it has to be better than what Alexander was, I don't think he knew what the word block means LOL

I think Penny has more speed than either Carson or Davis but he needs to work on things like timing and patience (when to wait, when to accelerate) and picking the best hole. I imagine as he gets more carries he will get better at those things. It's the speed of the pro game that is the hardest thing to adjust to for these youngsters.

Maybe, maybe not, I know speed isn't the most important facet of a RBs game... you only have to look to Michael for an example, or procise, or numerous other Seattle backs. He may get there, Carson already is...

I'm not surprised to see Pete slowly working Penny into the mix...and he is producing when given touches. This can only be a good thing in terms of keeping the rotation fresh, and not letting defenses get comfortable keying in on stopping just one back. We now have the #1 rushing offense in terms of overall yardage in football.

HumanCockroach wrote:Maybe, maybe not, I know speed isn't the most important facet of a RBs game... you only have to look to Michael for an example, or procise, or numerous other Seattle backs. He may get there, Carson already is...

I apologize for butting in, but I think he meant the speed at which things happen, ie the speed of the game, not necessarily foot speed. Drew Bledsoe once commented that the most difficult thing to adjust to when a player went from one level to the next, ie high school to college then college to the pros, was the speed of the game.

Penny seems quicker to me, too. I think he's lost a little weight since training camp. Probably bought too many Girl Scout Cookies with that 1st round contract.

I think Penny has more speed than either Carson or Davis but he needs to work on things like timing and patience (when to wait, when to accelerate) and picking the best hole. I imagine as he gets more carries he will get better at those things. It's the speed of the pro game that is the hardest thing to adjust to for these youngsters.

trents

Maybe, but it certainly doesn't read that way.

Here's what is most important about all three being effective. Teams can't game plan for just one back. They have to take time out of practice and planning to account for all three. That makes them less effective on all three.

I just wish that RW would keep it once in the first few plays to set the tone that thye have to account for him, too. That opens up the cutback lanes for the RBs becasue the DE can't just crash down behind the back but has to play it straight up until they know that RW doesn't have it.

idhawkman wrote:Here's what is most important about all three being effective. Teams can't game plan for just one back. They have to take time out of practice and planning to account for all three. That makes them less effective on all three.

I just wish that RW would keep it once in the first few plays to set the tone that thye have to account for him, too. That opens up the cutback lanes for the RBs becasue the DE can't just crash down behind the back but has to play it straight up until they know that RW doesn't have it.

True, but there has to be one main RB that the team can depend on and who can get into a groove after 10 to 15 carries.
That shouldn't be too hard with our emphasis on the run game, but if we get behind early, there might be more pressure to pass to catch up.

NorthHawk wrote:
True, but there has to be one main RB that the team can depend on and who can get into a groove after 10 to 15 carries.
That shouldn't be too hard with our emphasis on the run game, but if we get behind early, there might be more pressure to pass to catch up.

No, that is not true. We don't "HAVE" to have anyone be more effective after x number of runs especially if all of them are effective right out the gate.

I don't agree.
You need a Bell Cow or Alpha RB. He's the guy who makes the others better.
However, if like the last few years the OL doesn't open holes, it doesn't really matter.

Carson is the alpha, Penny is a boom or bust player that can give you 35 yrs on a single run, and follow that up with under a yard in the next 15.... that's simply what he is at this point. Maybe he learns how to be an effective every down back, but he isn't close to there based on the first 10 games.

Carson could be a franchise type back ( he has what? 2 or 3 negative yardage runs all season, and 2 last year?) And averaged over 4.5 ypc for his career, the typical cut off for that designation. More importantly, he doesn't leave the offense scrambling to make up for poor runs regularly.

Davis is a nice short yardage back, and is more consistent, a tougher runner, and a better blocker than Penny ( which is why Seattle uses him almost exclusively on 3rd down). Ultimately "stables of backs" seldom work the way envisioned by staffs, there's a couple here and there, but typically that system flounders .... whether Seattle becomes a successful one remains to be seen, as 9 out of 10 times, Carson should be ( at least currently) the back toting the rock.

Anyone ever seen a running back get flipped like that before and land it, and continue to attempt to run? I've seen straight over flips occasionally, but that was more likely to be seen on a pommel horse than a football field. Guys a special athlete, with incredible balance and strength....

We all pined for a Lynch replacement, he's here, enjoy it.

HumanCockroach wrote:Anyone ever seen a running back get flipped like that before and land it, and continue to attempt to run? I've seen straight over flips occasionally, but that was more likely to be seen on a pommel horse than a football field. Guys a special athlete, with incredible balance and strength....

We all pined for a Lynch replacement, he's here, enjoy it.

I agree with everything with a slight caveat, Beast was able to run with authority and not miss games. Chris Carson has already missed more games this year (2) than Breast missed from 2010-2014 for us and that isn’t even looking at last year when he missed 12. I think he is something special when he plays, I just want to see him play. If he ends this season having played 14 games and can do at least that next year I would say that he is Lynch’s replacement. I really hope he is because he is fun to watch, super athletic, and almost never has runs with negative yards.

Perhaps, I was more referring to his running style ( hurdles and flips withstanding) hasn't been a lot of backs I've seen in recent memory, with that kind of balance, and ability to make positive yardage, when there's nothing there. Balance is key, and Carson is the closest thing I've seen to Beast since his retirement. The yards after contact are pretty crazy for him, as they were for Lynch...

It isn't Gurley, Zeke, or Barkley leading the league... wish seattle could get him to the second level a little more often...