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"PFF: Seahawks pass blocking has been most efficient in NFL over last month"

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/10/17/17987092/pff-seahawks-pass-blocking-efficiency-nfl-week-6-germain-ifedi-duane-brown-tom-cable-ranking-grades

Great to have what appeared to be happening confirmed. I texted a couple of friends after last week saying it was time to quit bagging on the O-line.

burrrton wrote:Great to have what appeared to be happening confirmed. I texted a couple of friends after last week saying it was time to quit bagging on the O-line.

I would agree, as of now, still, want to see it for more than just a few games before I say they are getting it done. But so far so good.

Been time to stop bashing the line for a season and a half...

11th last season in that regard, top five this year.

Or pretty much, right when I brought it up.... lmao... welcome to the party.

HumanCockroach wrote:Been time to stop bashing the line for a season and a half...

11th last season in that regard, top five this year.

Or pretty much, right when I brought it up.... lmao... welcome to the party.

11thlast year? What site PFF had them at 29th last year

[url}https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-offensive-lines-by-pass-blocking-efficiency[/url]

Footballoutsiders had them at 25th last year

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2017

Anthony wrote:I would agree, as of now, still, want to see it for more than just a few games before I say they are getting it done. BUt so far so good.

Agreed. I'd quote The Wolf from Pulp Fiction, but you can google it if you want the vulgar quote.

burrrton wrote:
Agreed. I'd quote The Wolf from Pulp Fiction, but you can google it if you want the vulgar quote.

LOl I'm good

The link has been provided, you can do your own research. Based on NFL standards of 2.5 seconds of 0 pressure, Seattle ranked 11th last season, with a pass win ratio ( ie that 2.5 seconds of a clean pocket or more).

I understand that doesn't fit into the "it's all the atrocious lines fault" excuse being trumpeted for the last season and a half, but I simply don't care. I pointed it out, and received nothing but crap for it. I don't care what excuse people were looking for at the time, or now, it's a top three offensive line, and in regards to pass protection has been for the entirety of this season ( yep even in Denver and Chicago), and the bulk of last season....

HumanCockroach wrote:The link has been provided, you can do your own research. Based on NFL standards of 2.5 seconds of 0 pressure, Seattle ranked 11th last season, with a pass win ratio ( ie that 2.5 seconds of a clean pocket or more).

I understand that doesn't fit into the "it's all the atrocious lines fault" excuse being trumpeted for the last season and a half, but I simply don't care. I pointed it out, and received nothing but crap for it. I don't care what excuse people were looking for at the time, or now, it's a top three offensive line, and in regards to pass protection has been for the entirety of this season ( yep even in Denver and Chicago), and the bulk of last season....

Okay here we go again, so you say there is a link, but we have to find it. Yet the sites I found and PROVIDED say otherwise. So for me, until you or someone PROVIDES the link I will stick with what the 2 cites I PROVIDED for last year. All that said so far so good for this year. As to the narrative sorry to say since 2012 up until this year so far, our oline has been amongst the worst in pass blocking and you can use both the cites I PROVIDED as proof. So again until someone PROVIDES the other links I will go with what the cites I have PROVIDED show and prove.

Links been provided on this board. I don't care if you find it, or not.

If you click it or not, if you can get past your needed excuses or not. I simply do not care. That's your problem, not mine. I am not your secretary.

I will give you a tip though, check one of the links you actually sought desperately to provide excuses for our QB holding the ball to long..... I know that leaves about 90 or so threads, but it's there...

HumanCockroach wrote:Links been provided on this board. I don't care if you find it, or not.

If you click it or not, if you can get past your needed excuses or not. I simply do not care. That's your problem, not mine. I am not your secretary.

I will give you a tip though, check one of the links you actually sought desperately to provide excuses for our QB holding the ball to long..... I know that leaves about 90 or so threads, but it's there...

So in an attempt to ignore the attempts to hijack this thread, I will stay on topic the oline. The current PFF rankings show we are heading in the right direction, now let's see if we can maintain it, After years of having a bad pass blocking oline it would be nice to have a good one, we will see.

There's zero hi jacking, simply a correction on the assertation that this line just recently improved. Whether that fits your opinion isn't relevant. This is a discussion on the lines efficiency, one that improved dramatically last season, and simply continued where it left off.

At the risk of getting caught in a pissing match crossfire, I'm going to venture an opinion on the matter. The OL's performance and Russell's performance are intertwined. Russell's style of play did lead directly to the pass protection problems our OL has been having in years past, including the first two games of this season. He held onto the ball way too long, tried too often to extend plays by retreating and trying to execute that very predictable reverse spin, and would wind up taking a sack for a huge loss or turning the ball over. It's an extremely difficult task for any line to block for a quarterback that they have no clue which direction he'll go. His style of play gives the defensive linemen an advantage over the OL as the DL can see where Russell is going.

After the Chicago game, I was nearly off the Russell bandwagon. He was turning the ball over, throwing pick 6's, taking sacks for huge losses. Despite our being within a touchdown in the 4th quarter of our first two contests, he failed to get our team into a position to win the game, and we came out of the gate at 0-2 because of it. I felt that his career had peaked, that he refused to adjust his style of play. Those two very winnable games that Russell screwed up could wind up costing us in December.

But recently, since the Dallas game and augmented by an improved running attack, Russell stopped doing some of the things that several of us here have complained about for the past several years, ie holding onto the ball too long, refusing to step up into the pocket, and started taking care of the ball. As a result, we're 3-1 since he adjusted his game and as a consequence, has allowed the OL to do their jobs.

I'll weigh in here on a couple of topics this thread has brought up ...

I don't think Russ' performance is any more dependent on his O-line than any other QB. To the contrary he's been able to accomplish borderline miraculous sh!t with largely awful blocking of late. In fact I see it like RB's being dependent on their blocking; Some (Shaun Alexander) are more than others (Marshawn Lynch) ... Russ is closer to the Beastmode end of that scale. Yes, I expect more of him with Solari as line coach, I think Solari is the best thing to come of Pete's staff purge. But Russ' been pretty great at shouldering the load with very little help.

Which brings me to my second point, our pass pro sucked under Cable, right out loud. Now it don't. Period.

Lastly, using a single metric over the multiple metric evaluations PFF and FO use to evaluate O-line production is not a winning argument. At least not in my book.

The OL play is much better.
As the engine of the Offense, it's the single most important part of the Offense.
The last few years we couldn't run the ball and that meant that Defenses knew we had to pass.
Therefore, they had an easier time defending against our Offense.
Now that the run game has become a reality, our pass game and protection has picked up as well.
We've even run some effective draws that teams have to consider, and screen passes as well.
That's part of better play calling, but also because of better execution along the OL.
Like Bob said, Solari was the best addition, and the return to power blocking fits the personnel better, too.

I love the 4 yards and a cloud of dust along with the 7-9 minute drives. The score doesn't look real flashy like a 45-10 win but it is very effective and a 27-3 win is just as impressive to me as the other.

So my overall feeling, despite the attempts to hijack this, it happened and became about Wilson, Which was not my point. My point was simply the oline both from the eye test and stats and fact check is doing better, now we need to see if it can keep it going, As to the 2 who want to lay it at the feet of Wilson, and use him as the "excuse" for how bad the oline played. Well I feel sorry for you, while i have no problem saying he might have contributed to it, so did the play design, the receivers, and top of the list the oline itself.

All that aside and getting back on track from the hijack, the oline is showing improvement lets hope it keeps going.

Well, it is a little of Column A, B, C, and D.

Lack of running game, holding on to the ball too long, not using the pocket, not establishing the pocket, scheme, long-developing plays, etc...

Everything feeds off each other. I'm just thrilled we have an OC and OL coach getting the running game going again. I am thrilled that we have an OC scheming to get the ball out faster. I am thrilled that we have QB smart and capable enough to adjust his game to take advantage of both of those assets.

Can spread the blame around for past woes to the team, and, hopefully, we will continue to spread the praise around now that they are looking on track.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:Well, it is a little of Column A, B, C, and D.

Lack of running game, holding on to the ball too long, not using the pocket, not establishing the pocket, scheme, long-developing plays, etc...

Everything feeds off each other. I'm just thrilled we have an OC and OL coach getting the running game going again. I am thrilled that we have an OC scheming to get the ball out faster. I am thrilled that we have QB smart and capable enough to adjust his game to take advantage of both of those assets.

Can spread the blame around for past woes to the team, and, hopefully, we will continue to spread the praise around now that they are looking on track.

Exactly.

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:Well, it is a little of Column A, B, C, and D.

Lack of running game, holding on to the ball too long, not using the pocket, not establishing the pocket, scheme, long-developing plays, etc...

Everything feeds off each other. I'm just thrilled we have an OC and OL coach getting the running game going again. I am thrilled that we have an OC scheming to get the ball out faster. I am thrilled that we have QB smart and capable enough to adjust his game to take advantage of both of those assets.

Can spread the blame around for past woes to the team, and, hopefully, we will continue to spread the praise around now that they are looking on track.

I agree with everything you've said, but I want to caution you and everyone else about getting too excited about our recent success. None of our 3 wins have come against a team with a winning record and our victims are a combined 5-14.

RiverDog wrote:I agree with everything you've said, but I want to caution you and everyone else about getting too excited about our recent success. None of our 3 wins have come against a team with a winning record and our victims are a combined 5-14.

I agree, thats why i said so far

I don't expect us to win out because the OL is better, but we now have a better chance to win each week.
We've played well Offensively against some better Defenses of late and that's encouraging considering how
badly we've played on Offense at times over the last few years.

RiverDog wrote:[/u]
I agree with everything you've said, but I want to caution you and everyone else about getting too excited about our recent success. None of our 3 wins have come against a team with a winning record and our victims are a combined 5-14.

That's True Riv, but all of our losses are within one score. I don't think we are as bad as many thing we were going to be and we can create some big headaches down the road if we stay healthy.

(I'm not saying you thought we were bad. Some people were predicting only 4 wins this year.)

idhawkman wrote:That's True Riv, but all of our losses are within one score. I don't think we are as bad as many thing we were going to be and we can create some big headaches down the road if we stay healthy.

(I'm not saying you thought we were bad. Some people were predicting only 4 wins this year.)

That's also true. But it doesn't discount the point I'm trying to make, which that our schedule has been relatively mild to this point of the season.

I'm still in the 7-9 range, but I'll upgrade that prediction if we win on the road against the Lions.

We're 6 games into the season and have played fully half of our road games already. This was not the soft part of our schedule.

c_hawkbob wrote:We're 6 games into the season and have played fully half of our road games already. This was not the soft part of our schedule.

Agreed!

c_hawkbob wrote:I'll weigh in here on a couple of topics this thread has brought up ...

I don't think Russ' performance is any more dependent on his O-line than any other QB. To the contrary he's been able to accomplish borderline miraculous sh!t with largely awful blocking of late. In fact I see it like RB's being dependent on their blocking; Some (Shaun Alexander) are more than others (Marshawn Lynch) ... Russ is closer to the Beastmode end of that scale. Yes, I expect more of him with Solari as line coach, I think Solari is the best thing to come of Pete's staff purge. But Russ' been pretty great at shouldering the load with very little help.

Which brings me to my second point, our pass pro sucked under Cable, right out loud. Now it don't. Period.

Lastly, using a single metric over the multiple metric evaluations PFF and FO use to evaluate O-line production is not a winning argument. At least not in my book.

All good, that's your opinion, and Anthony's excuse, both of you are welcome to it. 2.5 seconds, clean in the pocket, is a positive result, and the accepted standard in the NFL. Seattle did that 11th best last season, I'm not expecting anyone to claim that changes their beliefs, it's what happened, and that also isn't something that can be a winnable argument.

Some are locked into their beliefs. I can accept that. All good.

HumanCockroach wrote:
All good, that's your opinion, and Anthony's excuse, both of you are welcome to it. 2.5 seconds, clean in the pocket, is a positive result, and the accepted standard in the NFL. Seattle did that 11th best last season, I'm not expecting anyone to claim that changes their beliefs, it's what happened, and that also isn't something that can be a winnable argument.

Some are locked into their beliefs. I can accept that. All good.

So until you share this mythical link, we will go with the ones i actually shared which clearly show we were no place near 11th in pass blocking, and no matter how hard you try to push your factually incorrect agenda, we will go with the facts. So your excuses for the horrible oline play last year and further back are noted, but not backed by facts. That said you are entitled to your opinion. That said so far so good with the oline.

You're an adult, it's been shared, it can be googled. Nothing further needs to be done on my end.

HumanCockroach wrote:You're an adult, it's been shared, it can be googled. Nothing further needs to be done on my end.

Your an adult too, if your going to make statement and reference a link you should post it. Otherwise its worthless. I posted the oline rankings before too, but i still posted them again, its called being a considerate adult.

More fuel for the fire.
https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2018/10/17/seahawks-offensive-line-turnaround-proves-the-value-of-actual-coaching/amp/?__twitter_im

I did, not my issue you decided to ignore it... lmfao...

Why in the WORLD would anyone even think to be considerate to someone who clings to excuses and slings mud at anyone and everyone if they don't agree with the statements made by you, lies, casts personal attacks, pisses on the rules of the board, etc.... somebody feeling even more entitled than usual

HumanCockroach wrote:I did, not my issue you decided to ignore it... lmfao...

Why in the WORLD would anyone even think to be considerate to someone who clings to excuses and slings mud at anyone and everyone if they don't agree with the statements made by you, lies, casts personal attacks, pisses on the rules of the board, etc.... somebody feeling even more entitled than usual

Says the man giving excuses galore to what has been a horrible oline, while hiding behind some mystical link he refuses to post. Lol

Lmfao... try Google.

It's there for people who want to see it, doubtful you're one of them.

HumanCockroach wrote:Lmfao... try Google.

It's there for people who want to see it, doubtful you're one of them.

So in other words you got nothing, but factless excuses for what has been a factually bad oline. You should change you name to humanexcuseroach.

Hmm most pressured most hit hmm these are called links to support your stance. If humanexcuseroach showed any maybe people would take him seriously.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldgulls.com/platform/amp/2017/6/21/15843386/seahawks-advanced-stats-nfl-russell-wilson-under-pressure-dvoa-football-outsiders

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2017

Anthony wrote:Hmm most pressured most hit hmm these are called links to support your stance. If humanexcuseroach showed any maybe people would take him seriously.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fieldgulls.com/platform/amp/2017/6/21/15843386/seahawks-advanced-stats-nfl-russell-wilson-under-pressure-dvoa-football-outsiders

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2017

Those stats can be deceiving. Due to his penchant for extending plays and trying to create something positive out of a bad situation, Russell Wilson typically has one of the slowest release times in the league, and with that slow release comes more pressure.

Since you're so into stats, here's one that you're not going to like. It's from 2014, but it shows that Russell Wilson had the slowest release time of any NFL quarterback with a whopping 3.2 seconds, a tenth of a second higher than the next worst:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comme ... _time_320/

RiverDog wrote:
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/quarterbacks-and-pressure-2017

Those stats can be deceiving. Due to his penchant for extending plays and trying to create something positive out of a bad situation, Russell Wilson typically has one of the slowest release times in the league, and with that slow release comes more pressure.

Since you're so into stats, here's one that you're not going to like. It's from 2014, but it shows that Russell Wilson had the slowest release time of any NFL quarterback with a whopping 3.2 seconds, a tenth of a second higher than the next worst:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Seahawks/comme ... _time_320/[/quote]

Actually i have no problem with the stat, since we also dont know the play call, the situation etc. If 3rd and long well that means longer routes, means more time. Someome has to get open. Now some is Wilson. You see i have no problem saying some was Wilson, however on the list of reasons our oline hass been bad in pass blocking while Wilson has some responsibility he is very very low on the list. Let me remind you Wilson has been the most hit, hurries, pressured and sacked in under 2.5 seconds in the nfl since 2012. That fact alone says it all. On a side note saying the stats i posted are misleading, also means what you posted are too. That said anyone without a Wilson bashing agenda could see the oline was bad.

Anthony wrote: On a side note saying the stats i posted are misleading, also means what you posted are too.

I think that’s the point he’s making. All stats can be misleading. You do a great job of finding stats to support your arguments, but we all realize that these stats are imperfect, they rarely tell the whole story. We have to take the stats and try to put them into whatever ‘known’ contexts that we can. The problem with this particular argument are that there are too many unknowns to use them to come to any sort of defeinitive conclusions. Yes, the O-line has been bad- but was that due to scheme, RW holding onto the ball (which could also be considered scheme), poor routes by WR, bad running back play, etc... there are just as many Q’s that come up when talking about RW holding the ball too long.

Stats are only misleading f you allow them to be. A seasoned fan should be capable of taking stats in the context of the point being made and not assume they prove points beyond exactly what they say. Just like a seasoned TV add watcher is capable of realizing what the car maker in not saying ... otherwise they'd have us all believing Dodge, Ford and Chevy Trucks all have the most HP, torque and towing capacity.