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He was one of those rare athletes that had two viable major league sports that he could pursue, and he's chosen to ply his trade in the NFL:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle ... his-draft/

He is almost without question the best QB in this year's draft class and worthy of a #1 overall pick. But Arizona owns that #1 overall, and just last year, they spent a top 10 pick on Josh Rosen, indeed traded up to get him. Rosen had a pretty rough first year, which isn't unusual, but how happy are the Cards with him?

The Cards have 3 viable options: They can keep Rosen and trade the #1 pick, they can use the #1 pick on someone other than Murray, and they can trade Rosen and use the #1 overall on Murray. There's a 4th option, ie keeping Rosen AND drafting Murray, but I don't consider that a viable move unless they have plans to trade one or the other.

I think Murray is the #1 pick (thanks in no small part to Russ' success) and I think it's via option 1.

The Cards new HC was Murray's coach in college and has said he would take Murray #1 overall if he had the chance.
He wasn't in the NFL then, so we'll see if it was just talk to enhance his program or recruiting or whether he really means it.

c_hawkbob wrote:I think Murray is the #1 pick (thanks in no small part to Russ' success) and I think it's via option 1.

Yea, Russell without question played a big role in re-defining the quarterback position.

So if the Cards do trade the #1 pick, who do they trade with? The Raiders have the capital and Gruden may not be all that enthralled with Derek Carr. Could they work some sort of 3 way deal, say with the Giants or Jags, that would land them Murray and rid themselves of Carr?

The fallback would be that the Cards would keep both Rosen and the #1 pick, of which they'd probably use to select a defensive player like Bosa, which would then toss the ball into the 49'ers court, who are in a similar situation in that they are not in the market for a QB.

There are a number of teams in need of a QB, but the question would be which ones see Rosen as a future Franchise QB.
The options are (in no particular order and probably not complete)
Broncos, Jags, Giants, Dolphins, and Washington.
Lesser possibilities with older QBs would be Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers.

NorthHawk wrote:There are a number of teams in need of a QB, but the question would be which ones see Rosen as a future Franchise QB.
The options are (in no particular order and probably not complete)
Broncos, Jags, Giants, Dolphins, and Washington.
Lesser possibilities with older QBs would be Steelers, Patriots, and Chargers.

As I indicted above, I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders were to enter into that mix. More than any other team, they have the draft capital to work with, and if there's one thing about Gruden, it's that he isn't afraid to think outside the box. Additionally, the Cards are in a different conference than the Raiders, and they wouldn't mind having a say in where Murray ends up.

This season is a little unusual as there isn't as many teams that are in the market for a starting quarterback. Additionally, the 2019 draft class is pretty thin at the QB position.

The Jags are said in some circles to be going after Foles, so they might not be interested.
The Dolphins look like they are parting ways with Tannehill, so they might be a team depending on if
their new coach likes what he's seen of Rosen.
Washington is interesting because nobody yet knows how well Smith will recover from his broken leg.
They're paying some good money for him, but Rosen is on a rookie deal, so maybe they can make it work
and Snyder has liked to make a splash in the past.
Elway hasn't yet found a starting QB, which I find odd considering he should know what to look for, and
we all know about the Giants and Eli getting older. They are always talking about getting a QB for the
future even if Manning can still start somewhere.

Edit:
According to PFT, Kingsbury says they are on track with Rosen so Murray may be out of the picture for them.
It could be a smokescreen of course. It's lying season after all.

NorthHawk wrote:The Jags are said in some circles to be going after Foles, so they might not be interested.

I'm no cap expert, but the Jags look to be in cap hell, worst in the league according to this:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2019/

Surely Foles will command a salary in the $30M range, how the heck are the Jags going to work him under their cap limitations?

NorthHawk wrote:The Dolphins look like they are parting ways with Tannehill, so they might be a team depending on if
their new coach likes what he's seen of Rosen.

Washington is interesting because nobody yet knows how well Smith will recover from his broken leg. They're paying some good money for him, but Rosen is on a rookie deal, so maybe they can make it work and Snyder has liked to make a splash in the past.

Elway hasn't yet found a starting QB, which I find odd considering he should know what to look for, and we all know about the Giants and Eli getting older. They are always talking about getting a QB for the future even if Manning can still start somewhere.

Of those teams, I like the Giants odds. They were supposedly in the QB sweepstakes last season, so we know that they're on the lookout for Eli's replacement, and they're already holding the #6 overall pick, so it wouldn't take as much as the others to move up. Even if they can't work a deal with the Cards, the only QB needy team in front of them is Tampa Bay. I could easily see them making a deal with either the Jets or the Niners.

Neither Washington or Miami would appear to have the chips to move up high enough to grab Murray, and I would find it hard to believe that Elway would give up on Keenum one year after throwing some big time money at him.

It will be interesting, though, as there's not that many QB starved teams in the top 5 this season.

Seahawks better get a QB who can see over the DL! The guy from the Oregon Ducks is right up your alley.

Heard KJ is headed to the Rams....

Your season is starting to crumble

Rambo2014 wrote:Seahawks better get a QB who can see over the DL! The guy from the Oregon Ducks is right up your alley.

Heard KJ is headed to the Rams....

Your season is starting to crumble

3 points buddy LMAO.

You need a Q!B not that fragile minded wimp who crumbled under pressure. I mean Goff as well, not just Mcveigh. Maybe go after foles

I'd also say that Brees gets a nod regarding the opinion of short QBs in the NFL these days. Both are great short QBs.

I'm sure hoping that the prejudice against shorter QBs is coming to an end.
It's about being able to do the job and with the Linemen in front of them being
on average 6-4 or more on both lines, and adding in the helmets, a QB of 6-4
would have some issues, too.

NorthHawk wrote:I'm sure hoping that the prejudice against shorter QBs is coming to an end.
It's about being able to do the job and with the Linemen in front of them being
on average 6-4 or more on both lines, and adding in the helmets, a QB of 6-4
would have some issues, too.

I know a lot of people (Including me) have complained over the past few years that the Seahawks don't run shorter routes. E.g. RW is being sacked before the WRs are coming out o ftheir breaks. I think part of this is that they need to get a little further down the field for him to see them. E.g. the dink and dunk that has become so prevelant in the NFL is not an option for us with a shorter QB unless he sees through the line and not over it. A 6'4" QB could complete and see more routes closer to the LOS.

That's the biggest drawback of a shorter QB IMO.

I've heard that a lot, but it doesn't really add up.
A QB at 6-4 has his eyes at about 5-11 or 6-0.
The line in front is therefor at least 5 inches above his eyes.
Probably more because the helmets add a couple of inches.

NorthHawk wrote:I've heard that a lot, but it doesn't really add up.
A QB at 6-4 has his eyes at about 5-11 or 6-0.
The line in front is therefor at least 5 inches above his eyes.
Probably more because the helmets add a couple of inches.

Valid point but at that height he's looking between the picket fence of helmets whereas a shorter QB is trying to view through the picket fence from shoulder pads to shoulder pads. Smaller windows imo.

But in that case, the QB couldn't throw the short pass because it would have to get over the LoS and the OL/DL.
It's all about passing lanes.

Russell's height, or lack thereof, does have some drawbacks. One of the things I've noticed about him is that he seems to take deeper drops than other quarterbacks, and I assume that at least part of that is so he can get better field vision. But that deeper drop also means that the distance from launch point to target is greater, giving the DB more time to react.

At this point, Russell's physical stature is still not an issue as he continues to do a remarkable job of compensating for his limitations, so it's pretty much a moot point.

Murray is 2" shorter than RW.

I really like Kyler, but I’d pump the brakes on him at #1. Like Kaep, he seems to lock in on 1st (maybe 2nd) read and then bolt. He’s a splendid athlete w/ a great arm; just doesn’t feel like a #1 to me.

1 year of play is hard to determine if he's got what it takes.
Optimally you'd like to see progression in his game over a few years
and then it would be better to decide if you think he has room to
improve enough to play at the NFL level.

What I saw in College I liked, but I didn't see enough of how he
handled adversity and I don't know if he has the experience and
ability to really lead full grown men. I think his best situation
would be to sit for a while and start part way through the season
or even better, next year. But 1st round picks rarely get that
chance.

Which is why I’d pump the brakes. I love the kid’s game, there are just too many unknowns for me to take him at #1. Especially given who is sitting there. They drafted a QB high last year, so either A) they give up awfully quickly, or B) some other team has to pony up to get an unknown quantity. Seems VERY unlikely to me.

I agree. How often do you see a frosh or soph phenom who stays in a university program another one or two years fade, e.g. Jake Browning. Coaches and defenses adjust, not to mention the revolving door of personnel surrounding him on his own team. But that's okay because it's a bigger sample of his work and is more like what he will face in the NFL when he gets drafted by some lower rung team who can't surround him with elite companions. I'm always in favor of college football players staying in school and graduating. I think it makes them better human beings and more NFL ready athletes.

trents wrote:Murray is 2" shorter than RW.

Murray actually measured out at 3/4" shorter than RW, just over 5'10". What does AZ do? The GM recently qualified his "Rosen is our guy" with "for now". I think the kid is THE NEXT RW. High character, big arm, very athletic, a proven winner that doesnt turn the ball over much.So I guess his draft value is whatever a GM or HC thinks of RWs production and style of play the last 7 years. My guess is AZ has seen enough of RWs brilliance to be very interested and it would make for a couple of very interesting exciting games in the division each season.

Rosen showed me not a whole hell of a lot last year relative to the rest of the rookie high draft pick QBs. Frankly Im not sure of his trade value at this point. A year of extremely bland unimpressive performances means hes no longer a shiny new toy but of course Goff was a bust his rookie year too.

trents wrote:Murray is 2" shorter than RW.

Murray actually measured out at 3/4" shorter than RW, just over 5'10". What does AZ do? The GM recently qualified his "Rosen is our guy" with "for now". I think the kid is THE NEXT RW. High character, big arm, very athletic, a proven winner that doesnt turn the ball over much.So I guess his draft value is whatever a GM or HC thinks of RWs production and style of play the last 7 years. My guess is AZ has seen enough of RWs brilliance to be very interested and it would make for a couple of very interesting exciting games in the division each season.

Hawktawk wrote:Rosen showed me not a whole hell of a lot last year relative to the rest of the rookie high draft pick QBs. Frankly Im not sure of his trade value at this point. A year of extremely bland unimpressive performances means hes no longer a shiny new toy but of course Goff was a bust his rookie year too.

Plus the Cards brought in Kliff Kingsbury, an offensive minded HC who coached Mahomes at Texas Tech and runs a RPO-type offensive scheme that's not part of Rosen's skill set but would appear to be smack dab in Murray's wheelhouse. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Rosen with a different team in 2019.

3/4" is not correct either; Russ measured 5'10 5/8", Murray 5,10 1/8".

Kyler Murray is 1/2" shorter than Russell Wilson.

*Past performance is no guarantee of future results

[quote="c_hawkbob"]3/4" is not correct either; Russ measured 5'10 5/8", Murray 5,10 1/8".

Kyler Murray is 1/2" shorter than Russell Wilson.

*Past performance is no guarantee of future results[/quote

Lol I stand corrected . Is that on tiptoes ? Socks on or off
How about both are short

Here's an interesting article on Murray and the dilemma the Cards find themselves in with the #1 overall:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/co ... spartanntp

Some are saying that the best the Cards could get for Rosen is a 3rd rounder. It also notes how enamored Jon Gruden is with Murray, and as we all know, the Raiders have the draft capital to move up.

And interestingly enough, the Seahawks were one of ten teams to meet with Murray.

This is definitely one of the most intriguing mysteries involving a #1 overall decision in quite some time.

Edit: And now there's this:

The third day of combine workouts is underway, but the word here in Indianapolis is all about Kyler Murray. Here’s the latest.
Adding fuel to the Murray fire, Arizona Cardinals head coach Kliff Kingsbury was telling people last night that it’s a “done deal” the Cardinals will select the Oklahoma Sooners quarterback with the first pick of the draft. Whether or not Kingsbury has the final say on the choice remains to be seen, but stay tuned.

http://draftanalyst.com/combine-notes-sunday

So Rosen to the Redskins for a 3rd rounder?