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Listening to ESPN radio on my way home today and we have a NEW set of rules in the NFL generally because of one f'd up play against the Saints. Now, for some teams that have been screwed in the past the idea that 'one bad play' could change the owner's viewpoint toward 'change' I guess it helps when the Coach of the Team that just got screwed is a 'senior' member of the Rules Committee.

For one year you can challenge both OPI and DPI (that should be fun -- there's probably 10 per game that could be challenged.)
Many other new rules.

The one they need to change is Overtime. I like the mix between college and that new football league. Both teams get at least 1 shot. Seems that they do OT from the 10 yard line and only 2 pt conversions allowed if you get a TD. If you're going to change the rules, lets get it all done at one time.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/26/sean-payton-on-expanding-replay-i-think-we-got-it-right/

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2019/mar/27/pass-interference-now-reviewable-by-officials/

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/27/authority-for-officiating-office-to-eject-players-expanded-to-include-football-plays/

The thing is, none of these changes touch the play they (at least the one) they are a reaction to. That play was a non-call, you still can't challenge non-calls, no matter how obviously egregious the oversight was.

c_hawkbob wrote:The thing is, none of these changes touch the play they (at least the one) they are a reaction to. That play was a non-call, you still can't challenge non-calls, no matter how obviously egregious the oversight was.

And there lies the problem. No calls can be just as egregious as bad calls.

For the life of me, I don't understand...or maybe one of you could explain...why they can't have instant communication with the crew chief and have another entity...their central control in NY or a ref in the press box...that has the benefit of reviewing the play on a video monitor radio down to the field and tell them to pause and give the crew on the field some time to contemplate the previous play. They do it all the time when a flag is thrown and they huddle and decide to pick it up or let it stand, so why can't they be afforded an opportunity to have a conference on a no call?

I could see where this rule change could be even worse in that, the refs will want to throw flags on everything and if you don't agree, challenge it. If you had it where they could challenge no calls, at least it would help the refs not throw flags as often. E.g. they could also say, if I throw a flag you can challenge it, but if I don't throw the flag and miss the call, you can challenge that too. This would take away the incentive to throw more flags.

(Kind of like the old saying, "kill them all, let God sort 'em out."

The news just reported that the new rule is for any PI call or NON call. Do we know which is right?

idhawkman wrote:The news just reported that the new rule is for any PI call or NON call. Do we know which is right?

It might turn out to be a bungled attempt at correcting an obvious flaw.
In super slow motion, there will be calls that are changed because of a micro second of contact before the ball
arrived. That might slow the game down even more and cause the NFL to dump that rule altogether. What they
need is to use it only when it is blatantly obvious that a call is missed, and that would require a "Sky Referee"
like they have in the AAF (although I've never seen one of their games).

NorthHawk wrote:It might turn out to be a bungled attempt at correcting an obvious flaw.
In super slow motion, there will be calls that are changed because of a micro second of contact before the ball
arrived. That might slow the game down even more and cause the NFL to dump that rule altogether. What they
need is to use it only when it is blatantly obvious that a call is missed, and that would require a "Sky Referee"
like they have in the AAF (although I've never seen one of their games).

I don't think it will slow the game down much since the team has to use a challenge and they only have a set number of those. They'll think twice about the ticky tack as it might cost them a T.O. and loss of a challenge that they may need for a TD or First Down play.

I don't think this is a bad change (although I see the arguments against it, and its questionable utility), but I'm more sympathetic to the "slows the game down" argument after watching NCAA hoops refs doing 'clock reviews' last weekend.

Seemingly every damn ball OB they would pause the game for 15 minutes to go see if they should put 0.1 or 0.2 seconds back on the clock. It was *ridiculous* (and they still didn't get it correct about half the time).

burrrton wrote:I don't think this is a bad change (although I see the arguments against it, and its questionable utility), but I'm more sympathetic to the "slows the game down" argument after watching NCAA hoops refs doing 'clock reviews' last weekend.

Seemingly every damn ball OB they would pause the game for 15 minutes to go see if they should put 0.1 or 0.2 seconds back on the clock. It was *ridiculous* (and they still didn't get it correct about half the time).

Agreed. Although this newest version of instant replay review is far superior than the league's first attempt back in the '80's, it was extremely frustrating as a fan to sit around for what seemed like an eternity only to hear "after further review, the play stands as called." NCAA basketball's replay review system reminds me of the NFL's first foray.

I still haven't heard anyone address my question about a replay official being in direct contact with the crew chief.

Seems to me the PI rules will s-l-o-w down the game to a crawl, especially in the last 2 minutes of a game. Every close play can be stopped and YES, this is PI both for called and non-calls, for the first time ever, including the infamous Hail Mary plays that almost always has massive pushing and shoving. Good Luck determining all that and making fair and accurate calls without totally boring out the game.

That isn't the worst of the new rules. How about some 'person' sitting in a lay-z-boy in New Jersey throwing out players that he ALONE deems to have done a 'personal foul' -- again adding to the idea that the NFL can and will control the outcomes of games.

I hope New Orleans is the first team that gets burned by these rules...

jshawaii22 wrote:Seems to me the PI rules will s-l-o-w down the game to a crawl, especially in the last 2 minutes of a game. Every close play can be stopped and YES, this is PI both for called and non-calls, for the first time ever, including the infamous Hail Mary plays that almost always has massive pushing and shoving. Good Luck determining all that and making fair and accurate calls without totally boring out the game.

That isn't the worst of the new rules. How about some 'person' sitting in a lay-z-boy in New Jersey throwing out players that he ALONE deems to have done a 'personal foul' -- again adding to the idea that the NFL can and will control the outcomes of games.

I hope New Orleans is the first team that gets burned by these rules...

I really don't think it will have that big an effect on the end of games and especially on the Hail Mary pass. The reason I don't think it will is that most of the time, the end of the game the team throwing a Hail Mary doesn't have any Time Outs left in order to challenge the call. The defense usually swats these away and won't call for a challenge unless the play succeeded. That just doesn't happen that often.

challenges in the last 2 minutes are done by the NFL, not the team. Teams don't need to do anything if replay decides to hold up the game, so it will be done.

Idahawkman wrote:I really don't think it will have that big an effect on the end of games and especially on the Hail Mary pass. The reason I don't think it will is that most of the time, the end of the game the team throwing a Hail Mary doesn't have any Time Outs left in order to challenge the call. The defense usually swats these away and won't call for a challenge unless the play succeeded. That just doesn't happen that often.

jshawaii22 wrote:challenges in the last 2 minutes are done by the NFL, not the team. Teams don't need to do anything if replay decides to hold up the game, so it will be done.

Yup, all challenges go to the booth in the last 2 minutes. There are times that a team has to call a timeout or delay running the next play to give the booth some time to consider the previous play, but other than that, teams don't have any decisions to make in the last 2 minutes.

Every time that there's a freak play or a bad call in a critical game, the league tries to legislate it out, sometimes wit unintended consequences, like the catch rule. We'll have to wait and see how this all pans out, but in general, I'm of the notion that the game is fine the way it is and to quit trying to tinker with it.

At one point there was some talk about the coaches challenges for PI extending for 60 minutes and not be controlled by
league personnel in the last 2. I don't know where that idea came from or went, though.

As far as impacting the game, the CFL has had it for a few years now.
Here's a comment from PFT about their experiences.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... a-problem/

NorthHawk wrote:At one point there was some talk about the coaches challenges for PI extending for 60 minutes and not be controlled by
league personnel in the last 2. I don't know where that idea came from or went, though.

As far as impacting the game, the CFL has had it for a few years now.
Here's a comment from PFT about their experiences.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... a-problem/

Interesting. It's not a true apples vs. apples comparison as the style of play in the CFL and the challenge rules differ from that in the NFL, but it's a good indicator.

If there are such things as thankless jobs, an NFL referee has to be one of them.