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A slam dunk HOF'er when he retires and with plenty of tread on the tires it's a smart move to lock him up. But if we pay top dollar for Bobby and with Russell possibly becoming the highest paid player ever, are we going to be able to remain competitive?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2636 ... ng-seahawk

Yup, Bobby and Russ are our two cornerstones.

RiverDog wrote:A slam dunk HOF'er when he retires and with plenty of tread on the tires it's a smart move to lock him up. But if we pay top dollar for Bobby and with Russell possibly becoming the highest paid player ever, are we going to be able to remain competitive?

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2636 ... ng-seahawk

If JS has proven one thing its that he can find guys in the later rounds and undrafted FAs that can play and are cheap. Everyone with star QB s and star defenders has the same issues. Yes we CAN be competitive.

Hawktawk wrote:If JS has proven one thing its that he can find guys in the later rounds and undrafted FAs that can play and are cheap. Everyone with star QB s and star defenders has the same issues. Yes we CAN be competitive.

Early on, yes, but not so much lately, at least none that I can think of.

Flowers looks like he might be pretty good, and he was a 5th round pick.
It seems that's the sweet spot for Schneider. Some of his best selections have been in the 5th.

NorthHawk wrote:Flowers looks like he might be pretty good, and he was a 5th round pick.
It seems that's the sweet spot for Schneider. Some of his best selections have been in the 5th.

Sure, Flowers has the potential to turn into a quality starter, but we forget just how good Schneider's late round picks were early on. Both Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman were taken in the 5th round. Not that I expect him to draft a ROH player in the late rounds every season, but there's been a noticeable decline.

Schneider had almost complete bad drafts for a time.
2013 to 2015 were real bad with 2013 having only Luke Willson (5th round) sticking for more than a year as a starter.
The next 2 drafts only gave us 4 players in Clark, Lockett, Richardson, and Britt.
5 starters over 3 drafts isn't very good, whereas the last 2 drafts there are about 12 notables (some may not pan out in the long run
but look promising now).

NorthHawk wrote:Schneider had almost complete bad drafts for a time.
2013 to 2015 were real bad with 2013 having only Luke Willson (5th round) sticking for more than a year as a starter.
The next 2 drafts only gave us 4 players in Clark, Lockett, Richardson, and Britt.
5 starters over 3 drafts isn't very good, whereas the last 2 drafts there are about 12 notables (some may not pan out in the long run
but look promising now).

Agreed, and there's quite a difference in the quality of those successes: Clark, Lockett, Richardson, and Britt vs. Wagner, Wilson, Chancellor, and Sherman.

But we do have to recognize that some of that drafting has been hampered because of our propensity to trade draft picks for players: Harvin, Graham, and Brown come to mind. It seems like we're always having to trade down to reclaim lost picks, and this year is no exception.

We started off discussing the later picks, but the higher picks haven't been all bad.
Agreed that JS likes to trade down and has made some questionable trades, but the higher picks haven't
been that bad with a few exceptions and the unknown if McDowell hadn't hurt himself in the off season.
2013 was a complete write off of a draft from top to bottom except for Willson.

NorthHawk wrote:We started off discussing the later picks, but the higher picks haven't been all bad.
Agreed that JS likes to trade down and has made some questionable trades, but the higher picks haven't
been that bad with a few exceptions and the unknown if McDowell hadn't hurt himself in the off season.
2013 was a complete write off of a draft from top to bottom except for Willson.

As you know, I'm not all that enamored with Ifedi. He's not a bust, but he hasn't played up to expectations, either. Richardson wasn't a huge success, and even though the jury is still out on Penny, he didn't exactly set the league on fire, so I'd argue that his 1st and 2nd day draft picks haven't been that great, either.

I have lesser expectations with Offensive Linemen.
They're really behind the curve because of the limited Pro type Offenses in College and the superior
athleticism of the Defensive linemen. It's why I think we have to have a lot more patience with the
young guys as they learn how to play. With Ifedi specifically, he had to learn how to play Guard his
first year then learn how to play in space his second. Last year we saw some improvement and I think
it's because of both the familiarity with the position and a simpler blocking scheme that emphasizes
physicality. He may never be a Pro Bowl RT, but if he has a solid career, he has to be considered to be
a solid selection.

I'm wondering if the selection of Jamarco Jones was a hedge in the event Ifedi asks more than they
want to pay or if Ifedi didn't make progress.

Here's the page I looked at to see who we drafted and when each year. You can see how bad 2013 was
and the next couple of years weren't much better.

So for those who are just lurking...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_S ... ft_history

As you know, I'm not all that enamored with Ifedi. He's not a bust, but he hasn't played up to expectations, either. Richardson wasn't a huge success, and even though the jury is still out on Penny, he didn't exactly set the league on fire, so I'd argue that his 1st and 2nd day draft picks haven't been that great, either.

Oh I totally disagree! HE IS a B U S T! He is penalty machine, its gone beyond, beyond! Pete's drafting has left a lot to be desired the last 5 years.

O-line drafting has been uniformly bad under Pete and John. It's been a huge blindspot. No idea why.

As you know, I'm not all that enamored with Ifedi. He's not a bust, but he hasn't played up to expectations, either. Richardson wasn't a huge success, and even though the jury is still out on Penny, he didn't exactly set the league on fire, so I'd argue that his 1st and 2nd day draft picks haven't been that great, either.

obiken wrote:Oh I totally disagree! HE IS a B U S T! He is penalty machine, its gone beyond, beyond! Pete's drafting has left a lot to be desired the last 5 years.

In 2017, Ifedi was the most penalized player in the league, with 16 accepted flags in as many games. Last year, he cut that number to 10, which was the 14th most in the league and 7th highest for offensive tackles, still not acceptable, but much better than before. Hopefully another year of familiarity with his fellow linemen, the OL coach, and the OC will bring that number down further.

We each have our own view on what a "bust" is, but since Ifedi has started 44 games for us, he doesn't fit my definition of a "complete" bust, at least not yet. IMO a "complete bust" is a highly drafted player that's out of the league in 3 years, like Johnny Manziel.

Aseahawkfan wrote:O-line drafting has been uniformly bad under Pete and John. It's been a huge blindspot. No idea why.

I have a pretty good guess: Tom Cable. He's been our OL coach for every year except the first and last seasons. The blind spot was Pete's not seeing that any quicker than he did.

I think that Cable's scheme is too complex for young OL coming into the league.
Hell, a number of them rarely played with their hand in the dirt in College.
Veterans might be able to adapt to it, but they know the NFL and what it takes to
play at this level. Draft choices have no idea of the speed and power of NFL
Defensive Linemen, so it overwhelms them. Solari's scheme is simpler and more
of an identify your man to block, then do it. The young guys can then work on
their technique a lot more. I'm expecting Ifedi to get better this year, but I
don't know if he fits into their plans to extend him or not. If not, he will end
up on another team and be a solid player for years barring injury. Kind of like
Carpenter and now Glowinski on other teams.

NorthHawk wrote:I think that Cable's scheme is too complex for young OL coming into the league.
Hell, a number of them rarely played with their hand in the dirt in College.
Veterans might be able to adapt to it, but they know the NFL and what it takes to
play at this level. Draft choices have no idea of the speed and power of NFL
Defensive Linemen, so it overwhelms them. Solari's scheme is simpler and more
of an identify your man to block, then do it. The young guys can then work on
their technique a lot more. I'm expecting Ifedi to get better this year, but I
don't know if he fits into their plans to extend him or not. If not, he will end
up on another team and be a solid player for years barring injury. Kind of like
Carpenter and now Glowinski on other teams.

Agreed about Cable's system and the talent coming out of college. It's as good an explanation as laymen like us can come up with.

I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that we pick up Ifedi's contract. He'd have to play at a Pro Bowl level to earn it and even that probably won't be enough, not with Russell, Clark, Wagner, et al. to pay.

I'm not sure it's that cut an dried.
If the OL plays well as a whole, and Ifedi shows more improvement, they may consider not breaking it up.
He's at a critical stage in his career, but I think requiring him to be at a Pro Bowl level is pretty strict.
It depends a lot on Jamarco Jones as well as Ifedi and the cost/benefit of letting Ifedi go.

RiverDog wrote:
Sure, Flowers has the potential to turn into a quality starter, but we forget just how good Schneider's late round picks were early on. Both Kam Chancellor and Richard Sherman were taken in the 5th round. Not that I expect him to draft a ROH player in the late rounds every season, but there's been a noticeable decline.

I think we need to give it a little time here. JS's track record over the past couple years is immensely harder than when he first got here and we had so many holes. Until last year, there were very few holes to fill (outside of the Oline which we've beat ad nauseum). If we look at the first couple years, it took a little time for Kam and ET, and Sherman, and Bobby and KJ and Red, and Mebane to all come together. Even Baldwin took a couple years to groove in. This past year with the mass exodus of the LOB, it opens the opportunity for JS and Pete to rebuild that group along with other parts of the D.

I am looking for huge progress this year and hope that it rivals the level of the LOB.

RiverDog wrote:I have a pretty good guess: Tom Cable. He's been our OL coach for every year except the first and last seasons. The blind spot was Pete's not seeing that any quicker than he did.

We'll see this year. I think this if the first year Cable will have nothing to do with O-line talent. Last year he had just been fired and had already met with the scouts. This year should be all the new O-line coaches working with the scouts. We'll see how it goes.

RiverDog wrote:I have a pretty good guess: Tom Cable. He's been our OL coach for every year except the first and last seasons. The blind spot was Pete's not seeing that any quicker than he did.

Aseahawkfan wrote:We'll see this year. I think this if the first year Cable will have nothing to do with O-line talent. Last year he had just been fired and had already met with the scouts. This year should be all the new O-line coaches working with the scouts. We'll see how it goes.

You're talking about the difference between Cable and Solari, and I agree with you. But that's not what I thought that you were getting at. You said that Pete has a blind spot when it comes to OL talent, and my argument was that if Pete had a blind spot, it was in not recognizing the unsatisfactory performance of his OL coach.