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Another one of my childhood idols has passed away. Bart Starr, the winner of the first two SB MVPs, passed away at the age of 85.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/pa ... spartanntp

I was struck by this paragraph in the article:

Starr was also an unlikely match for Lombardi because the men were much different. Starr was always known for being a calm and polite man. Lombardi was never known for being calm. One time after Lombardi yelled at Starr in front of the team, Starr asked if the coach could criticize him privately if he needed to because he couldn’t lead the team if the coach was going to undermine him like that. Lombardi didn’t yell at Starr in front of the team after that, and the two went on to become arguably the most successful coach-quarterback combination in NFL history.

Perhaps Richard Sherman and some of the others that were upset with Pete Carroll for treating Russell differently than other team members ought to take that comment to heart.

Perhaps Richard Sherman and some of the others that were upset with Pete Carroll for treating Russell differently than other team members ought to take that comment to heart.

I agree with this. I do however recognize that when dealing with monster egos like Richards and Marshawns that ample measures of disagreement and even some butthurt will be unavoidable. Th trick is for everyone to be professional enough to stay on the same page. That's where coaching comes in.

Perhaps Richard Sherman and some of the others that were upset with Pete Carroll for treating Russell differently than other team members ought to take that comment to heart.

c_hawkbob wrote:I agree with this. I do however recognize that when dealing with monster egos like Richards and Marshawns that ample measures of disagreement and even some butthurt will be unavoidable. Th trick is for everyone to be professional enough to stay on the same page. That's where coaching comes in.

I would probably extend this courtesy not only to the QB, but one or two other veteran team leaders as well. In our case, this would include Bobby and would have included ADB had he not retired.

Except there towards the end of the LOB era, Pete did a masterful job of keeping everyone on the same page AND had the insight to tell when the formula was no longer working.

Except there towards the end of the LOB era, Pete did a masterful job of keeping everyone on the same page AND had the insight to tell when the formula was no longer working.

I'm not so sure about that, RD. Richard's explosions on the sidelines, Bennett deciding to read during team meetings (ignoring the coach) are just 2 public examples of Pete losing the team far ahead of the LOB 'divorce" -- We heard that there were many more, including those as noted between the Defensive leaders and Russell and/or Bevel. I think that if you really look at the dynamics, the end of the Pats SB game started the team on a slippery slide to the end. Pete lost the D that day.

The D lost the game as much as the "call" and Russell's ill fated decision to actually release the ball on a doomed mission abort play. They surrendered a 10 point 4th quarter lead on back to back drives after the offense had put up an admirable 24 points on a Belicheck defense. Everyone forgets that.

That team had character flaws and severe personality conflicts from the get go but the sheer athleticism at so many positions allowing the aggressive schemes on defense coupled with the smash mouth deep shot offense allowed them to be a yard from immortality. Sherman taunting Revis and Baldwin taking a figurative dump on the ball on the same play that was the Hawks last TD of the game was the karma that came back to bite them.

As for Starr he was way ahead of his time in understanding how two adults one the boss and one an excellent employee should interact regardless of the line of work.Its still true today although many A hole bosses and belligerent disrespectful employees cant figure it out.

As a 59 year old guy some of my first sports memories were the unstoppable Packers although it was all in the newspaper or on the radio as Dad stubbornly and maybe brilliantly refused to allow a TV in our house until I was in 8th grade.

In hindsight Starr would excel today in a modern day athletic QB body of course whereas Lombardi wouldnt be able to get anyone to play for him and would probably have never been an NFL HC.

Hawktawk wrote:As for Starr he was way ahead of his time in understanding how two adults one the boss and one an excellent employee should interact regardless of the line of work.Its still true today although many A hole bosses and belligerent disrespectful employees cant figure it out.

As a 59 year old guy some of my first sports memories were the unstoppable Packers although it was all in the newspaper or on the radio as Dad stubbornly and maybe brilliantly refused to allow a TV in our house until I was in 8th grade.

In hindsight Starr would excel today in a modern day athletic QB body of course whereas Lombardi wouldnt be able to get anyone to play for him and would probably have never been an NFL HC.

Lombardi's style wouldn't have survived in today's NFL, that's for sure. But there's reason to believe that he could have adjusted. He was a very intelligent and perceptive man.

I read a comment made to some of those that never saw Starr play to think of Troy Aikman, and IMO that's a fitting comparison both in style of play and personality.

Perhaps Richard Sherman and some of the others that were upset with Pete Carroll for treating Russell differently than other team members ought to take that comment to heart.

c_hawkbob wrote:I agree with this. I do however recognize that when dealing with monster egos like Richards and Marshawns that ample measures of disagreement and even some butthurt will be unavoidable. Th trick is for everyone to be professional enough to stay on the same page. That's where coaching comes in.

I see it happen all the time where people lose site of the goal. The goal being to win a SB and not who did more, who is right, who got less of this or that, who was treated better, etc. TEars apart the best teams when they lose site of the goal.

As River points out, Starr was the first two MVPs in the SB era but he also won quite a few championships before the SB was established. I think he had like 6 championships - or maybe that was how many championship games he played in.

The knock on RW is he is a game manager. Nothing wrong with that, the ultimate game manager died today. RIP Bart Starr!!

idhawkman wrote:As River points out, Starr was the first two MVPs in the SB era but he also won quite a few championships before the SB was established. I think he had like 6 championships - or maybe that was how many championship games he played in.

Starr lost his quest for his first NFL championship in 1960 vs. the Eagles but he never lost a playoff game after that and eventually won 5 NFL championships, which includes SBI and SBII.

obiken wrote:The knock on RW is he is a game manager. Nothing wrong with that, the ultimate game manager died today. RIP Bart Starr!!

I agree, had the term existed in the '60's, Starr would have been called a game manager. The offense didn't revolve around him the way it did Unitas and Brodie. But even those two pale in comparison to the way modern day NFL offenses revolve around the QB.

Brodie! I loved that guy. If you could have taken Duane Thomas off the Cowboys and put him on the 9ers, Brodie would have had a title.

Yeah, I was a Brodie fan back then. He used to throw some deep bombs to Gene Washington.