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Just two drives in the first quarter and Lamar Jackson already has aprox. 50 yards rushing and 50 yards passing.

Lamar taking the lead in the MVP race. Russell has fallen off lately. Hopefully he can get his name back in the discussion the last three games. He has every chance. Two bad teams and one win and you win the division and get the 1st or 2nd seed or lose and lose the division and end up the 5th seed. It's huge games like that where you separate yourself.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Lamar taking the lead in the MVP race. Russell has fallen off lately. Hopefully he can get his name back in the discussion the last three games. He has every chance. Two bad teams and one win and you win the division and get the 1st or 2nd seed or lose and lose the division and end up the 5th seed. It's huge games like that where you separate yourself.

By definition, the player that is awarded the MVP needs to come from a team that's having a great season. It's pretty hard to argue that a team like the Bengals would be any better off without Andy Dalton than they would with him. That's why Dak Prescott and Christian McCaffery have dropped out of the discussion even though their stats would normally support an MVP candidacy.

The Jets are a garbage team and the Ravens were playing at home, so you would expect Jackson to play well. But he's been doing it all season, is the 5th leading rusher in the league, already over 1,000 yards and has been playing well down the stretch as he's thrown just one INT in his last 9 games and a QB rating of 100+ in 7 of his last 8 games while his team has won 10 straight and are on the cusp of HFA.

That's no disrespect to Russell as even though he's going through a bit of a mini slump, if you can call it that, he's had an MVP-like performance and we've had an unexpectedly good season.

Didn't Archie Manning win it one year while on a terrible Saints team?
Or am I "remembering" something that didn't happen?

NorthHawk wrote:Didn't Archie Manning win it one year while on a terrible Saints team?
Or am I "remembering" something that didn't happen?

Archie Manning? You're letting your age show.

According to Wiki, Manning was never the league MVP, but he did get voted Player of the Year by the UPI in 1978. The Saints went 7-9 that season, so they weren't all that terrible.

Russell seems to be getting beat down. So many sacks and hits and chases from those like Arron Donald certainly could be taking the steam out of the engine.

RiverDog wrote:NorthHawk" Didn't Archie Manning win it one year while on a terrible Saints team?
Or am I "remembering" something that didn't happen?

Archie Manning? You're letting your age show.

According to Wiki, Manning was never the league MVP, but he did get voted Player of the Year by the UPI in 1978. The Saints went 7-9 that season, so they weren't all that terrible.

Player of the year it was. My mistake.
His team was only 7-9 because he was so good. His surrounding cast was not good at all even if there were a couple of
other diamonds on that team.

NorthHawk wrote:Player of the year it was. My mistake.

His team was only 7-9 because he was so good. His surrounding cast was not good at all even if there were a couple of
other diamonds on that team.

7-9 might have been the best record that Manning and the Saints achieved. The only positive I can recall coming from the Saints during that period of time was Tom Dempsey's 63 yard field goal he kicked from his own 37. It wasn't too long after that they moved the goal posts back from the goal line to the end zone line.

Jackson is amazing even with that hasselbeck on steroids sidearm delivery He took one tremendous shot yesterday and popped right up too. It was the play he broke Vicks record. I love that kid. I hope we get a rematch.

Of course hes the runaway MVP.

Love me some Russ but since Tampa Bay hes been pretty mediocre. Picks in 4 straight games, no Tds on offense last week. To be fair hes suffered a ton of drops that killed drives or potential scores and the line has been inconsistent lately. But Russ is making some old mistakes he had avoided such as passing up open looks for deeper riskier low percentage throws, especially with Lock a step slow coming off that injury.He's not throwing the ball away on mission abort plays leading to being far behind the chains. Also hes started once again to try to spin out the back of the pocket under pressure leading to some huge yardage lost sacks.Really Russ and Seattle had a reputation as a December team but their last 13 december games they are 6-7.

Cmon Russ, find the magic or 10-6 and watching on TV is still possible.

RiverDog wrote:By definition, the player that is awarded the MVP needs to come from a team that's having a great season. It's pretty hard to argue that a team like the Bengals would be any better off without Andy Dalton than they would with him. That's why Dak Prescott and Christian McCaffery have dropped out of the discussion even though their stats would normally support an MVP candidacy.

The Jets are a garbage team and the Ravens were playing at home, so you would expect Jackson to play well. But he's been doing it all season, is the 5th leading rusher in the league, already over 1,000 yards and has been playing well down the stretch as he's thrown just one INT in his last 9 games and a QB rating of 100+ in 7 of his last 8 games while his team has won 10 straight and are on the cusp of HFA.

That's no disrespect to Russell as even though he's going through a bit of a mini slump, if you can call it that, he's had an MVP-like performance and we've had an unexpectedly good season.

They going to catch up with Lamar like they always do, but he's having a hell of a season. He keeps running like that and he's going to take a beating.

Aseahawkfan wrote:They going to catch up with Lamar like they always do, but he's having a hell of a season. He keeps running like that and he's going to take a beating.

He's going to have to adjust his style, that's for sure. Russell has been able to make that adjustment, but he's been one of just a few that could. Once RG3 was injured and once his running threat was no longer credible, he became a backup quarterback. People forget that Kirk Cousins was taken in the same draft by the same team as RG3, yet he's unquestionably the better QB. Same story with Michael Vick and Colin Kaepernick, although for different reasons.

The problem with running quarterbacks is that they either get injured or they get old and slow. Jackson is going to have to develop some conventional quarterbacking skills if he wants to have a 15 year career ala Brady, Manning, Favre, et al.

But if he stays healthy, he can have one helluva 5 year or so run. He's an exciting player to watch.

Russ is the most careful runner of the bunch , always was. He’s really playing a similar game to what he’s always played, just better than ever until the last few weeks. Vick was reckless as was RG 3 whose career was derailed by Mike Shanahan playing him vs Seattle in the WC with an existing injury . He was never the same .

Luck also fit in that category of going in standing up and taking huge shots.

Jackson is a bit different . He’s put together very well, broad shoulders, thick neck, seems very durable . What’s really different from all but Vick is his speed which coupled with his moves and ability to break tackles is unlike any QB I’ve ever seen. As for his passing it doesn’t need much development with multiple 5 td games , one of 3 men in history to record a perfect passer rating in 3 contests . He leads the league in QBR and TD passes. And he’s already developing the ability to use his legs to buy time and pull defenders towards him before flipping it over their heads over and over .

The guy is a unique player, I’ll be a big fan unless it’s against the hawks and I’ll make a prediction he can go along quite a while like this in this excellent offense of Greg Roman , the Lebron of the NFL.

He's a unique player, but if he gets an injury like Penny did, how well would he come back?
Even if it's just a sprain and he can play on it, will he still be effective in the pocket when
he can't take off like he used to? I hope he doesn't get hurt, but the odds are against him
continuing to be healthy for the long term with his running style.

Hawktawk wrote:Russ is the most careful runner of the bunch , always was. He’s really playing a similar game to what he’s always played, just better than ever until the last few weeks. Vick was reckless as was RG 3 whose career was derailed by Mike Shanahan playing him vs Seattle in the WC with an existing injury . He was never the same .

Luck also fit in that category of going in standing up and taking huge shots.

Jackson is a bit different . He’s put together very well, broad shoulders, thick neck, seems very durable . What’s really different from all but Vick is his speed which coupled with his moves and ability to break tackles is unlike any QB I’ve ever seen. As for his passing it doesn’t need much development with multiple 5 td games , one of 3 men in history to record a perfect passer rating in 3 contests . He leads the league in QBR and TD passes. And he’s already developing the ability to use his legs to buy time and pull defenders towards him before flipping it over their heads over and over .

The guy is a unique player, I’ll be a big fan unless it’s against the hawks and I’ll make a prediction he can go along quite a while like this in this excellent offense of Greg Roman , the Lebron of the NFL.

I'm not sure how much running style has to do with being injury prone. Body style might make more of a difference. I'm only guessing, but it would seem to make sense that Russell, being small in stature and without the long legs that puts stress on knee joints, tendons, etc, might be less subject to injury than a player that's 4 or 5 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier. But even that logic can get tossed into the wind when Lady Luck is factored in. Sometimes I think it's more like swimming with the sharks, where you don't have a lot of control over it.

But even if Jackson does stay healthy, there's going to come a point in time, whether it be defenses adjusting to his tendencies or Father Time catching up with him, that he's going to have to develop more into a traditional quarterback. We're seeing an athlete that's at his ultimate peak physically. It's all downhill from here.

Ironically, I heard where if LSU QB Joe Burrow (b. 12/10/96) wins the Heisman, as he's favored to do, and if Jackson (b. 01/07/97) wins the NFL MVP, it will mark the first time in history that the Heisman winner was older than the NFL MVP.

RiverDog wrote:I'm not sure how much running style has to do with being injury prone. Body style might make more of a difference. I'm only guessing, but it would seem to make sense that Russell, being small in stature and without the long legs that puts stress on knee joints, tendons, etc, might be less subject to injury than a player that's 4 or 5 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier.

I'd say running style is at least as important a part of the equation as physical makeup. I think RG III's running style had more to do with his rapid demise than his slight build. Both were definite factors, but he just didn't have a clue how to protect himself ...

How many years does Wilson have left in him?

31 now and wants to play till 45, no way

He may have 4-5 more productive years howvere

RiverDog wrote:I'm not sure how much running style has to do with being injury prone. Body style might make more of a difference. I'm only guessing, but it would seem to make sense that Russell, being small in stature and without the long legs that puts stress on knee joints, tendons, etc, might be less subject to injury than a player that's 4 or 5 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier.

c_hawkbob wrote:I'd say running style is at least as important a part of the equation as physical makeup. I think RG III's running style had more to do with his rapid demise than his slight build. Both were definite factors, but he just didn't have a clue how to protect himself ...

We've debated this issue a lot, as far back as I can remember. I'm wondering if any studies have been done, or if analytics can give us any answers as to who or what type of player is more susceptible to injury.

Uppercut wrote:How many years does Wilson have left in him?

31 now and wants to play till 45, no way

He may have 4-5 more productive years howvere

Oh I think he's got at least 10 more ... there's nobody in the NFL I can think of that has more of both the physical and mental makeup to remain healthy.

Hawktawk wrote:Russ is the most careful runner of the bunch , always was. He’s really playing a similar game to what he’s always played, just better than ever until the last few weeks. Vick was reckless as was RG 3 whose career was derailed by Mike Shanahan playing him vs Seattle in the WC with an existing injury . He was never the same .

Luck also fit in that category of going in standing up and taking huge shots.

Jackson is a bit different . He’s put together very well, broad shoulders, thick neck, seems very durable . What’s really different from all but Vick is his speed which coupled with his moves and ability to break tackles is unlike any QB I’ve ever seen. As for his passing it doesn’t need much development with multiple 5 td games , one of 3 men in history to record a perfect passer rating in 3 contests . He leads the league in QBR and TD passes. And he’s already developing the ability to use his legs to buy time and pull defenders towards him before flipping it over their heads over and over .

The guy is a unique player, I’ll be a big fan unless it’s against the hawks and I’ll make a prediction he can go along quite a while like this in this excellent offense of Greg Roman , the Lebron of the NFL.

Even Cam Newton wore down running too much and Cam Newton is bigger than Lamar.

c_hawkbob wrote:Oh I think he's (Russell) got at least 10 more ... there's nobody in the NFL I can think of that has more of both the physical and mental makeup to remain healthy.

But it won't be due to his running ability. Russell has matured into a very good QB playing from/managing the pocket. He now runs only when the opportunity presents itself or when a play breaks down. He's a different QB than when he first entered the league. If Lamar Jackson hopes to have a 10+ career, he's going to have to do the same thing.

RW 10 years if they get him a good O line, the ala carte style now may buy him 5

c_hawkbob wrote:Oh I think he's (Russell) got at least 10 more ... there's nobody in the NFL I can think of that has more of both the physical and mental makeup to remain healthy.

RiverDog wrote:But it won't be due to his running ability. Russell has matured into a very good QB playing from/managing the pocket. He now runs only when the opportunity presents itself or when a play breaks down. He's a different QB than when he first entered the league. If Lamar Jackson hopes to have a 10+ career, he's going to have to do the same thing.

Agreed. In fact it looks better as a single paragraph (we'll call it a Riverbob quote):

Oh I think he's (Russell) got at least 10 more ... there's nobody in the NFL I can think of that has more of both the physical and mental makeup to remain healthy. But it won't be due to his running ability. Russell has matured into a very good QB playing from/managing the pocket. He now runs only when the opportunity presents itself or when a play breaks down. He's a different QB than when he first entered the league. If Lamar Jackson hopes to have a 10+ career, he's going to have to do the same thing.

Agreed. In fact it looks better as a single paragraph (we'll call it a Riverbob quote):

Riverbob wrote:Oh I think he's (Russell) got at least 10 more ... there's nobody in the NFL I can think of that has more of both the physical and mental makeup to remain healthy. But it won't be due to his running ability. Russell has matured into a very good QB playing from/managing the pocket. He now runs only when the opportunity presents itself or when a play breaks down. He's a different QB than when he first entered the league. If Lamar Jackson hopes to have a 10+ career, he's going to have to do the same thing.

There. How's that look?

Agreed. In fact it looks better as a single paragraph (we'll call it a Riverbob quote):

Riverbob wrote:Oh I think he's (Russell) got at least 10 more ... there's nobody in the NFL I can think of that has more of both the physical and mental makeup to remain healthy. But it won't be due to his running ability. Russell has matured into a very good QB playing from/managing the pocket. He now runs only when the opportunity presents itself or when a play breaks down. He's a different QB than when he first entered the league. If Lamar Jackson hopes to have a 10+ career, he's going to have to do the same thing.

RiverDog wrote:There. How's that look?

Nice!