HawkShack.com

Watching last nights battle of the greybeards it occured to me how all NFL fans have been watching historically remarkable QBs. I found myself not upset that Brady won but rather having to look at the sheer will to win, the ability to stay in shape, come into a new system and break every single season record while getting the team in for the first time in 14 years and now a game away from his 10th super bowl. You have to tip your cap at a record of wining that will never be equaled.

The other guys that come to mind are Rodgers, Big Ben and of course Drew Brees. My guess is Brees and Ben go out this year. If Tom should win another one maybe he goes. Rodgers seems to have quite a bit of gas in the tank still but its just a treat as a fan watching greatness unless its getting the hawks beat on a given sunday which has happed too much unfortunately.

It was a shame to see what may be the end of a spectacular career end on such a sour note. Drew Brees not only lost to the underdog Bucs, he threw 3 picks and ended with a 31.7 QBR in doing so.

I can't stand Tom Brady and hope that the Packers lay them to waste next week.

I think Hawks would have beat the Saints last night but would have been picked apart play GB

Good for Brady but Arians may be better than I ever thought

Hawktawk wrote:Watching last nights battle of the greybeards it occured to me how all NFL fans have been watching historically remarkable QBs. I found myself not upset that Brady won but rather having to look at the sheer will to win, the ability to stay in shape, come into a new system and break every single season record while getting the team in for the first time in 14 years and now a game away from his 10th super bowl. You have to tip your cap at a record of wining that will never be equaled.

The other guys that come to mind are Rodgers, Big Ben and of course Drew Brees. My guess is Brees and Ben go out this year. If Tom should win another one maybe he goes. Rodgers seems to have quite a bit of gas in the tank still but its just a treat as a fan watching greatness unless its getting the hawks beat on a given sunday which has happed too much unfortunately.

QB eras come and go. Brees and Brady have been blessed with very good teams around them and Brees has benefited from having an excellent offensive HC for most of his career. You're right about their will to compete and keep themselves
in great shape all year. That's not common in any professional sport with contact but there are some exceptions and we should celebrate them.

The new era of QBs consists of (in no particular order) Wilson, Mahomes, Watson, and Josh Allen amongst others but we will see if any have the longevity of Brady and Brees.

RiverDog wrote:It was a shame to see what may be the end of a spectacular career end on such a sour note. Drew Brees not only lost to the underdog Bucs, he threw 3 picks and ended with a 31.7 QBR in doing so.

I can't stand Tom Brady and hope that the Packers lay them to waste next week.

I love Brees, but I dont hate Tom, and I dont love him. He's a winner, that was willing to cut his salary to have a winner. A lot of Pat haters out there, they were the model of Salary Cap era. None of their teams could compare with the great teams of the past. Moreover, they never had that defining SB crush, like PItts, Dallas, or SF. Was Tom the greatest of all time okay, but as a Hawks fan who did I fear more, Elway or Brady? ELWAY, by far!

QB eras come and go. Brees and Brady have been blessed with very good teams around them and Brees has benefited from having an excellent offensive HC for most of his career. You're right about their will to compete and keep themselves
in great shape all year. That's not common in any professional sport with contact but there are some exceptions and we should celebrate them.

The new era of QBs consists of (in no particular order) Wilson, Mahomes, Watson, and Josh Allen amongst others but we will see if any have the longevity of Brady and Brees.

I agree, IF RW had the Olines that Brady, Brees, or Rogers have had, omgosh, he would have been just killer. What has RW had the last 5 years? Gadget WR's, and Olines that couldn't block a Marshmallow!

I still can't believe Brady has gone to the Super Bowl 9 times and this is his 14th conference championship in an era when the salary cap and draft structure is built to prevent this kind of freakish dominance. I can't even imagine anyone coming close to Brady's accomplishment. It's pretty nutso.

He's done well in the Playoffs, no question, but he's been given an advantage of having in his career only a few times when other teams in his division had winning records.
It's been said that anything can happen in the Playoffs once you're in and half the battle is getting there so having a step up really helps.

NorthHawk wrote:He's done well in the Playoffs, no question, but he's been given an advantage of having in his career only a few times when other teams in his division had winning records.
It's been said that anything can happen in the Playoffs once you're in and half the battle is getting there so having a step up really helps.

I love RW, but go ask him if he wants to be a winner like Tom, and take a 15 million dollar a year pay cut to have a winner. Would not happen, thats the reason why IF he is the greatest of all time, that he is the Greatest of all Time.

Brady is the greatest championship QB to ever play game and it's not close. The guy's ability to win in the clutch is second to none. Having a good team around you don't in anyway guarantee a Super Bowl or you go 9 times. There's really nothing that explains going to the Super Bowl every other year or being in the conference championship 14 of what? 19 years? It's a ridiculous level of dominance.

How well would he have done if he was drafted by Cleveland and had 15 different OC’s in 18 years?
I somehow doubt we would be talking about him as the GOAT.

NorthHawk wrote:How well would he have done if he was drafted by Cleveland and had 15 different OC’s in 18 years?
I somehow doubt we would be talking about him as the GOAT.

And Joe Montana was on one of the greatest dynasties in history, yet he didn't come close to that. Same type of argument. There have been multiple dominant dynasties in history with great all around teams, didn't come close what Brady did in his career. So this idea that you draft him on Cleveland is a pointless argument. Most great players even on amazing teams maybe win one or go to two and even the best of the best on the greatest dynasties maxed out at 4 wins and maybe 5 or 6 Super Bowls. Even that crazy good Buffalo team that went four years in a row didn't win one Super Bowl. The incredible Cowboys Dynasty with multiple of Hall of Famers didn't do what Brady did in New England.

It's a weak argument. You can compare QBs on the greatest dynasties in history and they still can't touch Tom Brady.

Any way you can compare it, he is the greatest QB to ever play the game. No one will likely every match what he did in our lifetimes or a few lifetimes. He literally went to the Super Bowl 50% of his tries and the Conference Championship game 75% of his tries including now on a new team. That is an insane level of dominance for a single QB.

[quote="Aseahawkfan"

And Joe Montana was on one of the greatest dynasties in history, yet he didn't come close to that. Same type of argument. There have been multiple dominant dynasties in history with great all around teams, didn't come close what Brady did in his career. So this idea that you draft him on Cleveland is a pointless argument. Most great players even on amazing teams maybe win one or go to two and even the best of the best on the greatest dynasties maxed out at 4 wins and maybe 5 or 6 Super Bowls. Even that crazy good Buffalo team that went four years in a row didn't win one Super Bowl. The incredible Cowboys Dynasty with multiple of Hall of Famers didn't do what Brady did in New England.

It's a weak argument. You can compare QBs on the greatest dynasties in history and they still can't touch Tom Brady.

Any way you can compare it, he is the greatest QB to ever play the game. No one will likely every match what he did in our lifetimes or a few lifetimes. He literally went to the Super Bowl 50% of his tries and the Conference Championship game 75% of his tries including now on a new team. That is an insane level of dominance for a single QB.[/quote]

I think we agree more about sports than Politics asea
This is 110% correct. I held on to the belief until recently that Brady was the ultimate system QB, propped up by the GOAT coach. This was of course shaped in part by anger at SB 49 where it was our guy making the last mistake. For me this year was a referendum on my theory the past 10 years or so when it became clear this Pats team was stratospheric. Coach or QB? Obviously it's both but Belicheat took a former league MVP and missed the playoffs by a mile in this division everyone says is full of weak teams that weren't a whole lot different than last year save buffalo. Remember that a dominant team always makes their division opponents 2 games worse every year. Meanwhile Tampa bay makes the playoffs for the first time in 14 years and their first NFC championship since Id guess 2001 or so. A 43 year old guy who was getting picked sacked and called out publicly by the coach after week one " he looked like tom brady in practice" wound up throwing 40 TD passes, basically breaking the single season records in his first year in a totally different system first new coach in 19 years. He's lost a little off the fastball and the accuracy isn't quite as sharp but the will to win and the intelligence and ability to read the field, unload the ball is as good as ever.

I feel kind of sleazy or maybe I should be singing that stones song "sympathy for the devil" but I resect the dude more now that I did a year ago no matter what he does next weekend. We can talk Russel Wilson , Pat Mahomes, Josh Allen etc. and even some of the younger kids .None of those people will ever do what Bradys done.

If Im green bay Im extremely nervous.

Speaking of how different things Could have been if, Phillip Rivers is retiring today. He's a guy that while he had a great career as it was, could have been in the conversation y'all are having about goats had thing broken a differently for him.

And Joe Montana was on one of the greatest dynasties in history, yet he didn't come close to that. Same type of argument. There have been multiple dominant dynasties in history with great all around teams, didn't come close what Brady did in his career. So this idea that you draft him on Cleveland is a pointless argument. Most great players even on amazing teams maybe win one or go to two and even the best of the best on the greatest dynasties maxed out at 4 wins and maybe 5 or 6 Super Bowls. Even that crazy good Buffalo team that went four years in a row didn't win one Super Bowl. The incredible Cowboys Dynasty with multiple of Hall of Famers didn't do what Brady did in New England.

It's a weak argument. You can compare QBs on the greatest dynasties in history and they still can't touch Tom Brady.

Any way you can compare it, he is the greatest QB to ever play the game. No one will likely every match what he did in our lifetimes or a few lifetimes. He literally went to the Super Bowl 50% of his tries and the Conference Championship game 75% of his tries including now on a new team. That is an insane level of dominance for a single QB.

What my argument speaks to is the fallacy of declaring 1 player the best ever in an ever changing ultimate team sport. The reason we have players in this discussion is good luck on their part in being selected to join a program
that perfectly matches what they are best at. There are many players who never got the chance to be in the optimal system and are thusly not considered. And others like Brady and today Mahomes are matched with coaches that
create an environment whereby they can excel and prosper. An example of this might be Archie Manning - a good QB on terrible teams. He also won Pro Bowl nominations and All NFC awards. How good might he have been in a system
that protected him? We'll never know and he's just one example.

It's true Brady has had the most success, but in saying he's THE best is to lessen the accomplishments of those who surrounded him and gave him that chance.

NorthHawk wrote:What my argument speaks to is the fallacy of declaring 1 player the best ever in an ever changing ultimate team sport. The reason we have players in this discussion is good luck on their part in being selected to join a program
that perfectly matches what they are best at. There are many players who never got the chance to be in the optimal system and are thusly not considered. And others like Brady and today Mahomes are matched with coaches that
create an environment whereby they can excel and prosper. An example of this might be Archie Manning - a good QB on terrible teams. He also won Pro Bowl nominations and All NFC awards. How good might he have been in a system
that protected him? We'll never know and he's just one example.

It's true Brady has had the most success, but in saying he's THE best is to lessen the accomplishments of those who surrounded him and gave him that chance.

Some guys are just that damn good. Brady did the things he needed to do to be that good including taking less pay, which was probably one of the biggest things you can do to win as often as he did. He set the example for his team year in and year out. He's clearly the best to ever do it. It doesn't lessen anything around him. Just shows that Brady always gave all those guys around him everything he had and never let them down as far as doing his part to win. It is why people were willing to pay less to play with Brady. It's why guys like Gronk come out of retirement to play with Brady.

I may hate New England. I don't have much love for Brady. But what he's done is nutso. Never thought I'd see a player that dominant at the QB position in the NFL. Brady must be one hell of a leader within a team.

Some guys are just that damn good. Brady did the things he needed to do to be that good including taking less pay, which was probably one of the biggest things you can do to win as often as he did. He set the example for his team year in and year out. He's clearly the best to ever do it. It doesn't lessen anything around him. Just shows that Brady always gave all those guys around him everything he had and never let them down as far as doing his part to win. It is why people were willing to pay less to play with Brady. It's why guys like Gronk come out of retirement to play with Brady.

I may hate New England. I don't have much love for Brady. But what he's done is nutso. Never thought I'd see a player that dominant at the QB position in the NFL. Brady must be one hell of a leader within a team.

No doubt, what he has done with his body at this age, is unreal. George Blanda, who I am sure River will remember as the first 40 year old, sorry he looked 50! Lebron in BB is really the only comparison in my lifetime and I just turned 65. Brees, and Ben look old, Tom doesn't. I dont hate Tom or the Pats, they are the model of the SC era, but the Steel Curtain, or the 85 Bears, would have killed the Pats. They don't compare with the great teams of the past.

obiken wrote:No doubt, what he has done with his body at this age, is unreal. George Blanda, who I am sure River will remember as the first 40 year old, sorry he looked 50! Lebron in BB is really the only comparison in my lifetime and I just turned 65. Brees, and Ben look old, Tom doesn't. I dont hate Tom or the Pats, they are the model of the SC era, but the Steel Curtain, or the 85 Bears, would have killed the Pats. They don't compare with the great teams of the past.

Exactly why Brady is so amazing. He never had a Steel Curtain. Never had some dominant franchise that held on to all the best players because contracts were highly favorable to the owners. All those years it was Brady and Belichick as the standard. Now It's Brady in Tampa Bay back in the NFC Conference Championship and Belichick not in the playoffs. That's why all is talk of great teams around them is bunk. There were amazing teams in the past, better than anything the Pats fielded. Yet they didn't do what Brady did over his career, now on a second team at 43. It's ridiculous. It's hard for me to imagine anyone doing that again.

The pro athletes of today, as has been pointed out, work at staying in shape all year long, have personal trainers and personal dieticians. That's why George Blanda looked ten years older than he was. He didn't have any of those advantages and many of those old timers were likely hard drinkers and partiers.

trents wrote:The pro athletes of today, as has been pointed out, work at staying in shape all year long, have personal trainers and personal dieticians. That's why George Blanda looked ten years older than he was. He didn't have any of those advantages and many of those old timers were likely hard drinkers and partiers.

Yup. George Blanda drove a truck for a beer distributor in the offseason so he could make his house payments. That's one of the things that has turned me off about the modern professional athlete. They are part of the elite upper class and no longer share the same characteristics as the rest of us working slobs.

With regards to Brady, you're exactly right about his having a personal trainer. It's one of the things that caused a rub between him and Belichick and hastened his departure from the Pats.

Brady been to 10 Super Bowls. We'll see if the young bucks can take down the old buck. I never thought I would see a player go to 10 Super Bowls much less a QB.