Here we go with Jamal Adams

[RiverDog]

Agree on all points, Asea. Even compiling the entirety of his career to this point doesn’t make Adams case for $20 million per year.

I like you’re point about BS pass rush stats. It’s all based on gadget play calling not consistently having to beat blocks in front of him.

Will it look bad if they don’t extend a guy they gave up two 1st rounders for? Sure, but it will look worse, at least in my book, if they sign him for $20 million/yr.

Yea, the pass rushing stats are an apples and oranges number when you consider that most of the time, Adams is going up against running backs that in many instances are not in the game for their pass protection capabilities. It's not the same as sacks rang up by Kahlil Mack or Vonn Miller as they're going up against an offensive tackle whose primary responsibility is pass protection.

Adams is very good at what he does, which is to rush the QB and be a disruptive force along the LOS. The problem is that Adams gives up some of his value when you factor in his pass coverage, which has been marginal at best.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure what to make of Adams' ability to cover from last years performance.
If he had been tasked with concentrating on the pass rush, it might have negatively affected his pass coverage in that he
might not have worked on that enough within our scheme. Knowing and being comfortable with understanding what the
other players around you are doing within the zones to the point of just reacting instead of thinking might not have been
achieved to the point he otherwise might.
With an average pass rush, we should see how he is going to be used and see his proficiencies and deficiencies within our Defense.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure what to make of Adams' ability to cover from last years performance. If he had been tasked with concentrating on the pass rush, it might have negatively affected his pass coverage in that he might not have worked on that enough within our scheme. Knowing and being comfortable with understanding what the other players around you are doing within the zones to the point of just reacting instead of thinking might not have been achieved to the point he otherwise might. With an average pass rush, we should see how he is going to be used and see his proficiencies and deficiencies within our Defense.

That's a good point. The other thing to think about is that our secondary was one of the worst performing groups in the entire league. It could be the case of "you can't soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys". Pass coverage is a group endeavor, so we may be painting Adams with the same brush stroke as we are the secondary as a whole.

Plus then there's the nearly complete absence of a front 4 pass rush that puts more pressure on the secondary, which includes Adams.

You really can look at Adams as a glass half full/glass half empty proposition. There's good arguments to be made both pro and con.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure what to make of Adams' ability to cover from last years performance.
If he had been tasked with concentrating on the pass rush, it might have negatively affected his pass coverage in that he
might not have worked on that enough within our scheme. Knowing and being comfortable with understanding what the
other players around you are doing within the zones to the point of just reacting instead of thinking might not have been
achieved to the point he otherwise might.
With an average pass rush, we should see how he is going to be used and see his proficiencies and deficiencies within our Defense.

I looked at his stats with the New York Jets, he seems to able to defend the pass. He's not Earl, but he's ok. Maybe if Pete focused him on that, he would do better. But Pete's gotta do that and that won't happen while Adams is being used as a gimmick pass rusher waiting to get injured by some big ugly who decides to hobble the star safety for mixing up in the scrum too often.

[NorthHawk]

One factor complicating the Seahawks‘ Jamal Adams talks: the Pro Bowl safety wanting not only to become the highest-paid player at the position but seeking to end up on his own financial tier. Adams does not want to be viewed as a pure safety, and thus be confined to the position’s salary range, Corry adds. Adams does not rate as a top-tier coverage safety, but he is a historically productive pass rusher for the position and is used in myriad capacities. With Seattle having traded two first-rounders for him, a deal is expected to come to fruition soon.

It seems we are going to be stuck paying through the nose for Adams. I sure hope he's worth it.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... dams-bears

[RiverDog]

It seems we are going to be stuck paying through the nose for Adams. I sure hope he's worth it.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... dams-bears

We've already paid "through the nose" in the form of 2-#1's, a #3, and a starting safety. Pete really has pushed all his chips to the center of the table on this deal with Adams.

[Aseahawkfan]

I would not pay him myself. You want to be like the best teams around such as Pittsburgh and New England, you don't break the bank for players. You know very clearly that even players like Jamal Adams aren't worth the money because teams win. So you have to pay the value of the position and what it does in your sccheme.

That's why I'm getting so tired of Pete's shiny toy trades. This man should know his system, know the value of positional salary, and not being trading such draft capital for players who don't sign with their teams because they want to get paid too much money.

Adams isn't here to win and be part of a team like Russell Wilson, he's here to break the bank near as I can tell. Those type of players are toxic for a team.

[RiverDog]

I would not pay him myself. You want to be like the best teams around such as Pittsburgh and New England, you don't break the bank for players. You know very clearly that even players like Jamal Adams aren't worth the money because teams win. So you have to pay the value of the position and what it does in your sccheme.

That's why I'm getting so tired of Pete's shiny toy trades. This man should know his system, know the value of positional salary, and not being trading such draft capital for players who don't sign with their teams because they want to get paid too much money.

Adams isn't here to win and be part of a team like Russell Wilson, he's here to break the bank near as I can tell. Those type of players are toxic for a team.

Yeah, I'm becoming increasingly skeptical, too. There's a lot of drama set to unfold this season, and the situation with Adams is at the top of the program.

[NorthHawk]

Negotiations between Adams’ camp and the Seahawks have been “slow-going”, Jeremy Fowler of ESPN reported on SportsCenter recently, via Corbin K. Smith of SI.com. Fowler said that it’s “a situation that could bleed through training camp, even possibly close to Week 1,” according to NBC Sports Edge. Adams is apparently “willing to bet on himself,” and Seattle understands that.

Clayton writes that if he wants $17 - $18M it would be a problem for the Seahawks.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... amal-adams

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Love the sensationalism. “Historic sack numbers.” Yeah, they were for a safety but 1.) I’d bet $100 he doesn’t come close to those sack numbers again 2.) He hasn’t proven he’s Troy Polamalu. Polamalu just about did it all.

I really hope they hold their ground. It doesn’t really matter what anybody thinks. The picks are already gone; overpaying for Adams in my mind is worse than not extending him.

[NorthHawk]

I will repeat, trade Adams now.

He is a great player, but he is not a fit for this team, and investing big cash on a safety does not seem prudent.

He blitzed about 100 times (98?), for 9.5 sacks. They used Wagner as a decoy (Wags blitz about 100 times, too), which is not a good use of the MLB. Effective blitzes (Red Dogs in the Mike Curtis era), come from different areas, but with Adams, he would crowd the LOS and everyone knew he was coming. He was essentially a one-trick pony last season.

He has trade value, why else did we give so much for him. We may not be able to get as much as we'd like, but that's why you roll the dice.

I'd like to trade him, too but I don't think he has much trade value considering what is his reported salary demands along with the systemic lack of importance of the Safety position, teams already
set at Safety, teams not needing another player to blitz the QB thus disrupting their defensive scheme. There may only be a couple of teams interested, and they know we don't want him if he was
to be put up in trade, so they can drive a hard bargain or simply wait for a year and compete in FA for him.
Our FO has put themselves into a real bad bargaining position with this really bad trade.

[RiverDog]

I will repeat, trade Adams now.

He is a great player, but he is not a fit for this team, and investing big cash on a safety does not seem prudent.

He blitzed about 100 times (98?), for 9.5 sacks. They used Wagner as a decoy (Wags blitz about 100 times, too), which is not a good use of the MLB. Effective blitzes (Red Dogs in the Mike Curtis era), come from different areas, but with Adams, he would crowd the LOS and everyone knew he was coming. He was essentially a one-trick pony last season.

He has trade value, why else did we give so much for him. We may not be able to get as much as we'd like, but that's why you roll the dice.

I'm with North Hawk on this one. At this point, we're all in on Adams and there's no turning back. Trading him is not an option. It would be a PR disaster for Pete, sacrificing 2 first rounders, a 3rd rounder, and a defensive starter for a player that suited up just 13 times for what in all likelihood would be a mid round draft pick at best. I'd rather try to sign him to a somewhat reasonable contract offer and if he doesn't take it, see if he's willing to bet on himself and let him hit free agency in 2022.

[RiverDog]

They rolled the dice on Harvin and Graham, and let them go. I would be happy if we could get a single first round pick for him. He is worth more, especially for a team that needs an upgrade or just a defensive leader.

If we could get a first rounder for Adams, I'd go for it in a heart beat. But at this point, with Adams contract demands being what they apparently are, I doubt that there's going to be very many takers.

[Uppercut]

Ok the deal was supposed to happen last week? What's the hold up?

[NorthHawk]

Ok the deal was supposed to happen last week? What's the hold up?

Sometimes there are games of brinkmanship where both sides know the basic dollar amount that will be paid
but one side is holding out in hopes of either get a million or so more or save that amount. I would think
something would happen before the season begins and hopefully before TC. If Adams doesn't show up to TC
then they might be farther apart than what's been described in the media.

[Agent 86]

July 27 - all players report for Training Camp
July 28 - First day of Training Camp practice
Aug.14 - First preseason game

So about 10 days away from first practice, and then another 17 days after that before first game. What are the chances something gets done in the next 10 days? And if not, in the next 2 weeks after that? Missing training camp is never really a good thing.

I know alot of you would prefer to see him traded or if signed, it be something not near $20 million like it is rumoured. Whatever happens, happens. If he gets $18-$20 million a year, so be it. It's an overpay yeah, and he may not live up to it, but from what I saw last year, this guy is the heartbeat of the defense and will never mail it in, fierce competitor. We can't control contracts or injuries or schemes. I for one love having this guy on the team and I know many of you do as well, I don't think anyone questions his competitiveness or will. Definitely questions of how he will be used and they are certainly valid though.

Just wanted to chime in on this and say no matter what happens, I will be good with it. But I have always been a glass half full guy, a "polly" if you will. Probably to a fault. The older I get, the more I understand the business side of things and how certain things effects others. But I just can't worry about those things, out of my control I guess. I would prefer an overpay and Adams in a Seahawks uniform.

[jshawaii22]

Mike Garafolo of NFL Media has reported (via Bleacher Reports) that the Seahawks have offered a record breaking offer to JA as a safety. Waiting for his reply. That would be somewhere north of $15m that Justin Simmons signed for. Now, if JA wants DE $$$$, that's another storyline.

[Aseahawkfan]

Mike Garafolo of NFL Media has reported (via Bleacher Reports) that the Seahawks have offered a record breaking offer to JA as a safety. Waiting for his reply. That would be somewhere north of $15m that Justin Simmons signed for. Now, if JA wants DE $$$$, that's another storyline.

I guess we'll see what it is.

[RiverDog]

Mike Garafolo of NFL Media has reported (via Bleacher Reports) that the Seahawks have offered a record breaking offer to JA as a safety. Waiting for his reply. That would be somewhere north of $15m that Justin Simmons signed for. Now, if JA wants DE $$$$, that's another storyline.

That's the sound of Pete pushing all of his chips to the center of the table.

[jshawaii22]

There must be a lot of $$$ pushed into years 3-4-5, if it's a 4 year extension because we don't have much cap room right now and there are a few others lining up at the GM's door.

[NorthHawk]

There's a report out that the Seahawks don't want to pay him more than Wagner's $18million/year but would make him the highest
paid Safety in the league. It will be interesting to see if they can come to some sort of agreement.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... ers-salary

[c_hawkbob]

The highest paid safety in the league now is the Donkey's Justin Simmons at $15.25 million. We've said we're not going to pay him more than Bobby at $18 million, so there's your range. On NFLN Garafolo said he expects it to get done right around $17 million and is certain it'll get done.

[NorthHawk]

Cool.
I still think he will be overpaid, but at least it will be settled.

[NorthHawk]

Chandler Jones has asked the Cardinals to trade him. While I don't like trading within the division, perhaps a trade of Jamal Adams for Jones would be a good step.

In a heartbeat.

[c_hawkbob]

His contract demands would dwarf Adams'.

[Aseahawkfan]

This all just seems bad. I'm seeing some article that Adams and Seattle aren't even close? What is Adams asking for? Ridiculous amounts of money he plans to get somewhere else now? Why did Pete trade for this guy? I hate this shiny toy BS Pete and John seem caught up in. Get back to using the draft and looking for cheap talent like you built the team with.

[NorthHawk]

Still talk that they aren't even close and that Adams wants to create a whole new category of a hybrid Safety pay scale and not be limited to just
being the highest paid Safety. This might drag on for a while.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... rt-to-camp

[RiverDog]

Adams did report to training camp yesterday, which has to be viewed as a positive sign.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ja ... uxbndlbing

Hopefully they can get a deal done within the next two weeks. We don't need anymore dramas.

[NorthHawk]

The new CBA allows teams to fine players that hold out $50,000 per day, so that might have something to do with it.
But if they are negotiating in good faith but still far apart, Adams might be OK with the way things are at the moment.

[Aseahawkfan]

Still talk that they aren't even close and that Adams wants to create a whole new category of a hybrid Safety pay scale and not be limited to just
being the highest paid Safety. This might drag on for a while.

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2021/ ... rt-to-camp

Well, we can end this real quick. We'll have him line up on the line like a D-lineman to find out why there is no hybrid safety position. He can learn the hard way why this position doesn't exist not because someone hasn't tried, but because lining up on the line requires a certain body type that a safety doesn't have.

Man, I hate this trade more and more as time goes on. I will hate it more and more if Jamal Adams doesn't show he is a high end cover safety. Because we don't need a hybrid pass rushing safety, we need an excellent cover safety to shore up the secondary.

[Hawk Sista]

I liked the trade at the time and loved it the first couple games of the season. But even with all his sacks and running around, we were a historically bad D the first half of the season. This didn’t change until Carlos came to town. I’ll have to see how things unfold, but right now it feels like we’d be better off with Bradley, the draft capital, and what… the extra 12 M + (delta between beat McDougald makes and what Jamal will make) on DK, Duane, etc.

I’d LOVE to be proven wrong. Jamal has the power and it’s not a good look or feel for the organization.

[NorthHawk]

I liked the trade at the time and loved it the first couple games of the season. But even with all his sacks and running around, we were a historically bad D the first half of the season. This didn’t change until Carlos came to town. I’ll have to see how things unfold, but right now it feels like we’d be better off with Bradley, the draft capital, and what… the extra 12 M + (delta between beat McDougald makes and what Jamal will make) on DK, Duane, etc.

I’d LOVE to be proven wrong. Jamal has the power and it’s not a good look or feel for the organization.

I like the player, but hate the trade for him.
I've maintained we haven't seen how Pete really intended to use Adams and that the lack of a pass rush forced him to use him like that, so we will see how he's used this year.
I got the impression when we first traded for him that Pete wants him to use his instincts more than a structured role. This just comes from what Pete said to the media and
what Adams reported Pete said to him. Maybe I just read something into it that's not there, but maybe I'm right.

[RiverDog]

I liked the trade at the time and loved it the first couple games of the season. But even with all his sacks and running around, we were a historically bad D the first half of the season. This didn’t change until Carlos came to town. I’ll have to see how things unfold, but right now it feels like we’d be better off with Bradley, the draft capital, and what… the extra 12 M + (delta between beat McDougald makes and what Jamal will make) on DK, Duane, etc.

I’d LOVE to be proven wrong. Jamal has the power and it’s not a good look or feel for the organization.

IMO it wasn't Carlos's coming to town that changed our defensive success, it had more to do with the quarterbacks we were facing: Goff x2, Darnold, Wentz, McCoy, Mullens, Haskins, Beathard. Not exactly Murderer's Row.

[NorthHawk]

They got more pressure on the QB's, too so it might have been a combination to some extent.

I see that Duane Brown isn't practicing at the moment, either. He said he wants an extension as well.

[RiverDog]

This isn't sounding very good. From Peter King:

I hear the Seahawks have stretched themselves quite a bit for Adams, but he’s still not happy with the offer, and if you know Seattle’s negotiating stance, it’s not likely the offer’s going to change much now.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2021/8/9/222 ... -clark-et3

We're entering the 3rd week of training camp and there's still no movement on either the Adams or Duane Brown's contract and neither of them have been practicing.

Oh, well.....

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

If they have stretched and made a fair offer then that’s it. Leave it be and either he accepts or he doesn’t. Take care of Brown and Diggs. If Adams still won’t sign, then let him watch the team win from his couch.

[c_hawkbob]

We know Russell Wilson's priority:

"Not having Duane Brown out there is a pretty significant deal because I think he's one of the best left tackles in the game, there's no arguing it..."I think he's as good as it gets. There's nobody more athletic, more talented than he is. Age is just a number. He looks like he's 28-30 out there. He's really exceptional. So smart and physical, understands the game, and I think people fear him, to be honest with you, when they're rushing him and playing against him.

"So we definitely want to be able to get him back out there. We've got to figure that out because we need Duane Brown."

[Aseahawkfan]

If they have stretched and made a fair offer then that’s it. Leave it be and either he accepts or he doesn’t. Take care of Brown and Diggs. If Adams still won’t sign, then let him watch the team win from his couch.

Agree. Don't crack to his demands. Let him sit out and waste another year. He's a safety that played for one of the worst passing defenses in Seattle history. That is proof his impact is less than he thinks.

[obiken]

And the hits just keep on coming!

[Aseahawkfan]

And the hits just keep on coming!

They should have never made that trade knowing this guy is all about the money and not about winning. Better he stayed with a loser waiting to get paid than play for a winner with people who understand breaking the bank leads to a bad team.