Russell Wilson

[RiverDog]

Russell lied to his fans, told them that he wanted to be a Seahawk 'for another 10 years' when all the time he was negotiating behind the scenes to get out of Dodge.

Did he really lie?
He may have wanted to stay but without Pete as HC. And he lost that showdown.

It depends on how you define a lie. I suppose you could use an old lawyer's trick, like "Oh, I was never alone with her! There were lots of people around...in the same building" and say that he didn't lie. At the very least, it was very insincere, especially the way he said it in response to the question that was posed and the timing of it, just days before he was traded, meaning that he knew Pete was still going to be the HC and that he'd already agreed to waive his no trade clause.

[c_hawkbob]

No I think a lie is intent to deceive, not necessarily covering all possibly eventualities to prevent future "gotcha" moments from fans like you. Personally I don't think anything Russ said was not at least part of the equation when he said it. Unlike the Seahawks who absolutely lied about their intentions.

Why is it OK from teams but not from players?

[RiverDog]

No I think a lie is intent to deceive, not necessarily covering all possibly eventualities to prevent future "gotcha" moments from fans like you. Personally I don't think anything Russ said was not at least part of the equation when he said it. Unlike the Seahawks who absolutely lied about their intentions.

Why is it OK from teams but not from players?

Unless you want to call all 3, Pete, JS, and Jody Allen liars, Russell is the one that wanted out. Here's a direct quote from Jody Allen:

..statements from owner Jody Allen, coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider on trading Russell Wilson. Sentiment from all three that Russ was driving force behind decision to part ways. "While Russell made it clear he wanted this change, he made Seattle proud and we are grateful for his decade of leadership on and off the field," said Jody Allen, chair of the Seattle Seahawks.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... ely-mutual

That's in direct conflict to what Russell was saying just a couple weeks before the trade:

"Just to be in Seattle, it’s been a blessing to play 10 years there, so hopefully we get to win more Super Bowls there. That’s my focus, that’s my plan and that’s where my head’s at.”

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2022/ ... n-seattle/

Both of those statements can't be true. If you want to choose sides and call 3 people liars, then go right ahead. IMO both parties were at best deceitful and insincere, at worst lying through their teeth.

And who said that it was OK for the team to lie? It certainly wasn't me. You're absolutely right, Pete did lie when he said at the combine, just days before the trade, that they had no intention of trading Russell when at that very time, they were dotting the 'i's' and crossing the 't's' on the deal.

I don't necessarily blame either party for being dishonest. Even a refusal to deny a report would have sent the media on a feeding frenzy, so IMO they pretty much had to cross their fingers behind their backs. But not everyone sees it that way. Fans have every right to be upset with the way things came down.

[Aseahawkfan]

Unless you want to call all 3, Pete, JS, and Jody Allen liars, Russell is the one that wanted out. Here's a direct quote from Jody Allen:

..statements from owner Jody Allen, coach Pete Carroll and GM John Schneider on trading Russell Wilson. Sentiment from all three that Russ was driving force behind decision to part ways. "While Russell made it clear he wanted this change, he made Seattle proud and we are grateful for his decade of leadership on and off the field," said Jody Allen, chair of the Seattle Seahawks.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/100 ... ely-mutual

That's in direct conflict to what Russell was saying just a couple weeks before the trade:

"Just to be in Seattle, it’s been a blessing to play 10 years there, so hopefully we get to win more Super Bowls there. That’s my focus, that’s my plan and that’s where my head’s at.”

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2022/ ... n-seattle/

Both of those statements can't be true. If you want to choose sides and call 3 people liars, then go right ahead. IMO both parties were at best deceitful and insincere, at worst lying through their teeth.

And who said that it was OK for the team to lie? It certainly wasn't me. You're absolutely right, Pete did lie when he said at the combine, just days before the trade, that they had no intention of trading Russell when at that very time, they were dotting the 'i's' and crossing the 't's' on the deal.

I don't necessarily blame either party for being dishonest. Even a refusal to deny a report would have sent the media on a feeding frenzy, so IMO they pretty much had to cross their fingers behind their backs. But not everyone sees it that way. Fans have every right to be upset with the way things came down.

That is all business to me. All I hear from any of them is careful management of a difficult parting situation where none of the parties were absolutely sure how it was going to work out.

I'm sure Russ would have been happy to be a Seahawk for 10 more years under the right situation. I'm sure Pete would have been happy if he had stayed. But something happened behind the scenes, most of we'll never know exactly what, but likely came down to a difference of opinion that neither side felt like giving up on.

[NorthHawk]

A statement of ‘if things don’t change, I want out’ is much different from a simple ‘I want out’ or trade request.
He could very well have wanted to stay, but was forced out.

[RiverDog]

A statement of ‘if things don’t change, I want out’ is much different from a simple ‘I want out’ or trade request.
He could very well have wanted to stay, but was forced out.

Was forced out? How could he be forced out if he had a no trade clause?

Here's what Russell said in the 2nd week of February of 2022, just 3 weeks before the trade:

Just to be in Seattle, it’s been a blessing to play 10 years there, so hopefully we get to win more Super Bowls there. That’s my focus, that’s my plan and that’s where my head’s at.”

That statement was made just prior to SB 56, 2nd Sunday in February. Pete had an end of season meeting with Jody on or before Jan. 15th of 2022 (we missed the playoffs that season). Following that meeting, it was pretty obvious to everyone, including Russell, that Pete was going to be the coach in 2022. "Things" weren't changing, but Russell still claimed that his "focus," his "plan", and "where my head's at" was in winning multiple SB's in Seattle.

That clearly was NOT his focus or his plan. He knew that Pete and John weren't going anywhere, which blows that "if things don't change" argument out of the water. Russell had a no trade clause, so they had to work through him and/or is agent on a trade and deals like that one doesn't happen overnight. They had to have been having discussions with Russell and/or his agent since at least the end of the 2021 regular season, likely much longer. You also have to consider that Pete, John, and Jody all claim that Russell was the one that was the primary motivator in the trade, a claim of which Russell has denied.

Someone wasn't telling the truth. Is it no wonder that a lot of people chose to believe three people vs. one, especially when you put it in the context of his above statements?

[NorthHawk]

Was forced out? How could he be forced out if he had a no trade clause

He wanted to stay in Seattle but not play for Carroll. Things are rarely as black and white as he simply lied. There’s a lot of room for grey.

[RiverDog]

Was forced out? How could he be forced out if he had a no trade clause

He wanted to stay in Seattle but not play for Carroll. Things are rarely as black and white as he simply lied. There’s a lot of room for grey.

First of all, I didn't say that he lied. He was asked a tough question that was impossible to answer honestly without sending the media on a feeding frenzy. He did not go onto that set with the intention of telling a lie. IMO he was dishonest and deceitful.

Secondly, by mid January of 2022, like everyone else in the football world, Russell knew that Pete was going to be the coach for the following season, so he knew that if he stayed in Seattle, he'd be playing for Carroll, yet a month later and just a few weeks before the trade, he claims that it was his focus and plan to play in Seattle for the next 10 years. So please, dispense with the disclaimer "but not play for Carroll."

[c_hawkbob]

First of all, I didn't say that he lied.

It depends on how you define a lie. I suppose you could use an old lawyer's trick, like "Oh, I was never alone with her! There were lots of people around...in the same building" and say that he didn't lie. At the very least, it was very insincere, especially the way he said it in response to the question that was posed and the timing of it, just days before he was traded, meaning that he knew Pete was still going to be the HC and that he'd already agreed to waive his no trade clause.

Be quite the lawyers trick to say that is not saying he lied.

[RiverDog]

First of all, I didn't say that he lied.

It depends on how you define a lie. I suppose you could use an old lawyer's trick, like "Oh, I was never alone with her! There were lots of people around...in the same building" and say that he didn't lie. At the very least, it was very insincere, especially the way he said it in response to the question that was posed and the timing of it, just days before he was traded, meaning that he knew Pete was still going to be the HC and that he'd already agreed to waive his no trade clause.

Be quite the lawyers trick to say that is not saying he lied.

Yeah, maybe. But I never came out and called him a liar, and the reason is due to his motivation, that he couldn't possibly answer that question honestly without causing a huge problem for both himself and the Hawks during a very sensitive period of time when the trade was in its final stages. That differentiates him from someone that voluntarily and without provocation said something that they knew wasn't true.

IMO what Russell should have done was to avoid the media and kept his cake hole shut until after the trade was announced. Then he wouldn't have had to answer the questions about a possible trade, which he had to have known would be asked. Pete didn't have that luxury. He was at the scouting combine when they cornered him, and he couldn't avoid the media or ducked the question.

So take your pick. Who handled the situation worse, Russell or Pete?

[Agent 86]

Lol, talk about sewering an ex NFL head coach, Sean Payton did not hold back in his assessment of Nathaniel Hackett. And took a shot at the Jets while he was at it, where Hackett currently resides as OC:

Payton says the team was an embarrassment. "
It doesn't happen often where an NFL team or organization gets embarrassed," Payton said. "And that happened here. Part of it was their own fault, relative to spending so much (expletive) time trying to win the offseason – the PR, the pomp and circumstance, marching people around and all this stuff. We're not doing any of that. The Jets did that this year. You watch. 'Hard Knocks,' all of it. I can see it coming. Remember when [former Washington owner] Dan Snyder put that Dream Team together? I was at the Giants [in 2000]. I was a young coach. I thought, 'How are we going to compete with them? Deion [Sanders is] there now.' That team won eight games or whatever. So, listen ... just put the work in."

Payton takes huge shot at Hackett.
The Broncos coach said Nathaniel Hackett pulled off one of the "worst coaching jobs" in NFL history. "Everybody's got a little stink on their hands," Payton said. "It's not just Russell. It was a [poor] offensive line. It might have been one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL. That's how bad it was."

Payton blames Russell Wilson's struggles on everyone from Hackett on down.
"There's so much dirt around that," Payton said of why Wilson struggled. "There's 20 dirty hands, for what was allowed, tolerated in the fricking training rooms, the meeting rooms. The offense. I don't know Hackett. A lot of people had dirt on their hands. It wasn't just Russell. He didn't just flip. He still has it. This B.S. that he hit a wall? Shoot, they couldn't get a play in. They were 29th in the league in pre-snap penalties on both sides of the ball."

Payton says Wilson should have never been given special treatment.
According to reports, not only did Wilson have a personal office, but he also had his own personal support staff at the team facility. "That's not an incrimination on him, but an incrimination on the head coach, the GM, the president and everybody else who watched it all happen," Payton said. "Now, a quarterback having an office and a place to watch film is normal. But all those things get magnified when you're losing. And that other stuff, I've never heard of it. We're not doing that."

[RiverDog]

Lol, talk about sewering an ex NFL head coach, Sean Payton did not hold back in his assessment of Nathaniel Hackett. And took a shot at the Jets while he was at it, where Hackett currently resides as OC:

Payton says the team was an embarrassment. "
It doesn't happen often where an NFL team or organization gets embarrassed," Payton said. "And that happened here. Part of it was their own fault, relative to spending so much (expletive) time trying to win the offseason – the PR, the pomp and circumstance, marching people around and all this stuff. We're not doing any of that. The Jets did that this year. You watch. 'Hard Knocks,' all of it. I can see it coming. Remember when [former Washington owner] Dan Snyder put that Dream Team together? I was at the Giants [in 2000]. I was a young coach. I thought, 'How are we going to compete with them? Deion [Sanders is] there now.' That team won eight games or whatever. So, listen ... just put the work in."

Payton takes huge shot at Hackett.
The Broncos coach said Nathaniel Hackett pulled off one of the "worst coaching jobs" in NFL history. "Everybody's got a little stink on their hands," Payton said. "It's not just Russell. It was a [poor] offensive line. It might have been one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL. That's how bad it was."

Payton blames Russell Wilson's struggles on everyone from Hackett on down.
"There's so much dirt around that," Payton said of why Wilson struggled. "There's 20 dirty hands, for what was allowed, tolerated in the fricking training rooms, the meeting rooms. The offense. I don't know Hackett. A lot of people had dirt on their hands. It wasn't just Russell. He didn't just flip. He still has it. This B.S. that he hit a wall? Shoot, they couldn't get a play in. They were 29th in the league in pre-snap penalties on both sides of the ball."

Payton says Wilson should have never been given special treatment.
According to reports, not only did Wilson have a personal office, but he also had his own personal support staff at the team facility. "That's not an incrimination on him, but an incrimination on the head coach, the GM, the president and everybody else who watched it all happen," Payton said. "Now, a quarterback having an office and a place to watch film is normal. But all those things get magnified when you're losing. And that other stuff, I've never heard of it. We're not doing that."

Interesting stuff, and I agree with most of what Payton has said, except for the last paragraph about Wilson being given special treatment. Yes, management should have never permitted him to have his own office and support staff, and the majority of the blame falls on Hackett for agreeing to it. But Russell should have been smart enough to realize that if nothing else, it sent a bad message to the rest of the team.

[c_hawkbob]

Peyton's talking to his team through the press ala Bill Parcells. He's telling them "what happened last year doesn't effect us this year, that's behind us, that was on the previous guys, just do your jobs and we'll be fine."

Great billboard material for the Jets though, and Peyton knows that, hopefully his team will be believing in this version of themselves by then and be up for the challenge.

[RiverDog]

Peyton's talking to his team through the press ala Bill Parcells. He's telling them "what happened last year doesn't effect us this year, that's behind us, that was on the previous guys, just do your jobs and we'll be fine."

Great billboard material for the Jets though, and Peyton knows that, hopefully his team will be believing in this version of themselves by then and be up for the challenge.

Yeah, the Tuna could be a real jerk to play for, or at least that was my impression. I remember how he once made a smart Alec remark in a press conference about how his quarterback, Drew Bledsoe, needed to work on his jersey identification, ie interceptions. Pete does something similar, uses the press to send signals to his players, except he does his in a completely different manner. Pete will lay all sorts of compliments on his players in press conferences, giving them encouragement, boost their egos. That's one of the reasons why we can't trust what Pete says when it comes to what he's saying about his players.

As far as "hopefully his team will be up for the challenge", I couldn't give a rip how well the Donkeys do this year. It's going to be an interesting drama to watch play out, but I don't have a horse in that race and won't be rooting for them to win or lose.

[NorthHawk]

Peyton's talking to his team through the press ala Bill Parcells. He's telling them "what happened last year doesn't effect us this year, that's behind us, that was on the previous guys, just do your jobs and we'll be fine."

Great billboard material for the Jets though, and Peyton knows that, hopefully his team will be believing in this version of themselves by then and be up for the challenge.

The Jets will probably be up for that game.
I wonder if maybe it was one of those things that we all do occasionally, and say something that upon reflection wouldn't have said or have said very differently.
One year on TV and he's out of control!

[Agent 86]

Payton showed great defensive form at cornerback today, even swiveling his hips perfectly out of a backpeddle


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sean-payton-walks-back-critical-remarks-regarding-ex-broncos-coach-and-jets-will-reach-out-to-robert-saleh/

[RiverDog]

Payton showed great defensive form at cornerback today, even swiveling his hips perfectly out of a backpeddle


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sean-payton-walks-back-critical-remarks-regarding-ex-broncos-coach-and-jets-will-reach-out-to-robert-saleh/

Gotta give him credit for manning up and apologizing.

The more I think about it, the more Payton's flame throwing reminds me more of Buddy Ryan than it does Parcells.

[c_hawkbob]

I'd have liked it better if he'd just let his statement be and moved on. It's the truth. Screw a bunch of "unwritten code of ethics". Backpedaling is weak.

[RiverDog]

I'd have liked it better if he'd just let his statement be and moved on. It's the truth. Screw a bunch of "unwritten code of ethics". Backpedaling is weak.

Normally, I'd agree, but we have to understand that the coaching profession is a bit of a brotherhood, and that given how short the average tenure is for a head coach, their remarks could be the straw that breaks the camel's back and cost a fellow coach his job. I think that's why Payton mentioned that he was talking as if he still had his Fox Sports hat on instead of his coaching hat.

[Aseahawkfan]

Gotta give him credit for manning up and apologizing.

The more I think about it, the more Payton's flame throwing reminds me more of Buddy Ryan than it does Parcells.

I see. Payton's isn't really apologizing for his belief. He's reiterating a rule he likely teaches his players: don't give the other team bulletin board material.

Payton gave the opponent bulletin board material. That's always a bad idea.

Now he's admitting what he did and making sure his players know not to do it in the future. Even if the coach does it, he needs to step back and make it as right as he can.

Never give the opponent bulletin board material. Every head coach teaches this and knows it.

[c_hawkbob]

Sure, but once it's done it's done, own it. Backpedaling won't take it off their billboard.

[RiverDog]

Sure, but once it's done it's done, own it. Backpedaling won't take it off their billboard.

Yeah, you have a point. I just couldn't help thinking about all the times I've let my mouth get ahead of my brain and had to back peddle.

[TriCitySam]

Didn't look well early against Cards, looked better against their 2nd/3rd stringers later on. Denver fans/press kinda sound like those in Seattle did ("the OL needs to give him some protection!"). Some truth to that, but RW doesn't make it easy with at times holding the ball and his movement.

[Aseahawkfan]

Payton is making the 50 million dollar man work early. He's not worried about his expensive QB getting hurt. He wants him to get work and show he can lead this team to a better season. I like that. With only three games to get your players ready, you gotta make that happen earlier in my opinion. This hold them out to prevent injury seems to lead to slower starts.

Seems like Payton wants to know this year if the 50 million dollar man is worth keeping or he's going to have to look elsewhere.

[RiverDog]

The fact that he's playing at all, good, bad, or indifferent, is a big plus over last season. I've never seen such an overconfident QB/coach relationship as I did with Wilson/Hackett.

Judging by last season's records, the Broncos have a soft schedule early, with just one playoff team in their first 5 games, that being against the 9-8 one and done Dolphins. They need to start the season strong.

[NorthHawk]

The Broncos were Team Dysfunction last year especially early. They played a little better after Hackett left and cost us a spot or two in the draft order while the Colts were purposely tanking to move up.
This year there is far more structure and discipline and I heard it said Wilson is still working on his footwork for Payton's Offense.
Time will tell if he can adjust.

[RiverDog]

Russell is looking really good, at least in the first half. He's 17-19, 2 TD's, no INT's, been sacked once for a -7 yards. He's getting the ball out LOTS quicker. Maybe Payton got him turned around. Gotta qualify it as not playing against really great competition in the Raiders, though.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russell is looking really good, at least in the first half. He's 17-19, 2 TD's, no INT's, been sacked once for a -7 yards. He's getting the ball out LOTS quicker. Maybe Payton got him turned around. Gotta qualify it as not playing against really great competition in the Raiders, though.

It's early, but Payton isn't "Let the hot hand do what they do" coach. He will make sure Russell is focused, understands the HC runs the show, and he has expectations of Russ and will put him in a position to succeed.

[RiverDog]

Russell is looking really good, at least in the first half. He's 17-19, 2 TD's, no INT's, been sacked once for a -7 yards. He's getting the ball out LOTS quicker. Maybe Payton got him turned around. Gotta qualify it as not playing against really great competition in the Raiders, though.

It's early, but Payton isn't "Let the hot hand do what they do" coach. He will make sure Russell is focused, understands the HC runs the show, and he has expectations of Russ and will put him in a position to succeed.

He's getting the ball out of his hands lots quicker and throwing shorter more often, almost like a WCO. He has 17 completions but just 125 yards. That's something he didn't do in his last few seasons with us and didn't do last year with the Donkeys and something that a lot of us were really critical of him for.

[4XPIPS]

Russell Wilson will for ever be in my heart as the greatest Seahawk to play QB for us, and gave us our first only SB. However, after a shaky first year with the Broncos and after 3 games into this season I am thoroughly convinced Russell is well past his best years. I don't root against him, but as he has become a tough watch and everyone in the NFL is expecting good old vintage Russ to pull the game out of a rabbits hat, it has become painfully clear he isn't the franchise QB he used to be. He is a worthy starter, but he isn't going to be that top 5 QB ever again.

[Spohawk5092]

his best days are behind him.

[RiverDog]

Agreed. A lot of us could see that coming, that Russell hadn't done enough to compensate for his diminishing skill set, held onto the ball too damn long. If he had any kind of a chance at the HOF, it's gone up in smoke. Our old friend Hawktawk might well be right.,...again...that Russell could be out of the league in two years. Obviously, he wasn't the reason they lost today as it was a near historic offensive performance put up by the Dolphins. They didn't punt the entire game and scored the most points by a team since 1966.

But the Bronco offense didn't do anything to help their D as they were just 3-12 on 3rd down, 0-1 on 4th, and didn't score a single point in the 2nd half, their only points coming on a KO return. Unless you want to count the Hail Mary at the end of last week's game, it was the 2nd game in a row where the Broncos offense didn't score a TD in the 2nd half.

Russell is 4-14 as a starter in Denver, and now they're 0-3 to start the season with the toughest part of their schedule left to come. At some point, you have to think that Payton will have to bench Russell. They get the Bears next week, almost without question the worst team in the league, currently losing to the Chiefs 34-0 and after today, will have lost 17 of their last 18 games including 14 in a row. If they don't beat them, I'll bet that Payton pulls the plug and benches him.

[Aseahawkfan]

Agreed. A lot of us could see that coming, that Russell hadn't done enough to compensate for his diminishing skill set, held onto the ball too damn long. If he had any kind of a chance at the HOF, it's gone up in smoke. Our old friend Hawktawk might well be right.,...again...that Russell could be out of the league in two years. Obviously, he wasn't the reason they lost today as it was a near historic offensive performance put up by the Dolphins. They didn't punt the entire game and scored the most points by a team since 1966.

But the Bronco offense didn't do anything to help their D as they were just 3-12 on 3rd down, 0-1 on 4th, and didn't score a single point in the 2nd half, their only points coming on a KO return. Unless you want to count the Hail Mary at the end of last week's game, it was the 2nd game in a row where the Broncos offense didn't score a TD in the 2nd half.

Russell is 4-14 as a starter in Denver, and now they're 0-3 to start the season with the toughest part of their schedule left to come. At some point, you have to think that Payton will have to bench Russell. They get the Bears next week, almost without question the worst team in the league, currently losing to the Chiefs 34-0 and after today, will have lost 17 of their last 18 games including 14 in a row. If they don't beat them, I'll bet that Payton pulls the plug and benches him.

Why would he have to bench him? He has no better options. Today the defense was absolutely brutally bad. 70 points? Their defense has fallen so far from last year that I can't even imagine that type of fall. Who else did they lose besides Dre'mont?

[4XPIPS]

Yeah benching him would send shockwaves throughout the team. I mean Gardner Minshew is "more" of a worthy starter than Wilson at this time, but the team has too much invested into Russell to bench him now. I don't think Jarrett Stidham is the future of the team.

[RiverDog]

Yeah benching him would send shockwaves throughout the team. I mean Gardner Minshew is "more" of a worthy starter than Wilson at this time, but the team has too much invested into Russell to bench him now. I don't think Jarrett Stidham is the future of the team.

Stidham hasn't been given a chance. He started one game for the Raiders. If the season keeps going south, I can see them making a QB change even if he's not in their plans for the future. They gave him a 2 year, $10M contract, so they must feel pretty good about him.

You're probably right, that Week 4 would be pretty early for this reclamation project that Payton was brought in to fix to end. Besides, Russell hasn't been playing THAT poorly, at least when looking at the stats. He has a 65+ completion percentage, 6:2 TD:INT ratio, and a passer rating of 99.5. The problem has been that he/Broncos haven't been doing it when it counts, ie on 3rd down, ranked 24th, and in the red zone, ranked 26th. That was the story in his last few seasons with us, his 3rd down completion percentage sucked.

Anyhow, although I do have to admit snickering about it from time to time, I'm not rooting against him or the Broncos.

[NorthHawk]

I hope you aren't trying to pin this loss on Wilson.
The Dolphins hung 70 on them, so it's not like the Defense wasn't complicit even if the Offense scored 2 or 3 more TDs.

[RiverDog]

I hope you aren't trying to pin this loss on Wilson.
The Dolphins hung 70 on them, so it's not like the Defense wasn't complicit even if the Offense scored 2 or 3 more TDs.

From my comments above: Obviously, he (RW) wasn't the reason they lost today as it was a near historic offensive performance put up by the Dolphins. They didn't punt the entire game and scored the most points by a team since 1966.

[RiverDog]

Why would he have to bench him? He has no better options. Today the defense was absolutely brutally bad. 70 points? Their defense has fallen so far from last year that I can't even imagine that type of fall. Who else did they lose besides Dre'mont?

At this point, I don't see Payton benching him, either. As I said earlier, Russell hasn't been playing THAT poorly, at least statistically, and as you said, Payton doesn't have any better options. Russell still gives them the best chance of winning.

But if they keep losing, especially if they lose to the Bears next week, and if Russell plays poorly, you have to think that Payton would start thinking about blowing the whole team up and starting from scratch. The Bears are unquestionably the worst team in the league and have lost 14 games in a row.

[TriCitySam]

Payton has taken some of the heat off RW.....after arrogantly saying the Broncos had "one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL" in '22, a 50 point loss makes Payton look like....well, one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL. And if you heard his post game presser, he didn't like being reminded that he's done Hackett one better.

[4XPIPS]

I hope you aren't trying to pin this loss on Wilson.
The Dolphins hung 70 on them, so it's not like the Defense wasn't complicit even if the Offense scored 2 or 3 more TDs.

Of course the loss is a team effort, but during the golden times of Russell Wilson's peak he could go blow to blow against any team even with a poor defense. Let's not forget the shoot out with the Texans in 2017 where Wilson had a historic game with neither team was playing any defense and we won on a final drive 41 to 38. Wilson isn't that guy anymore and that is what I think most of the pundits today are expecting from him and deliver some of that Russ magic. It's not there anymore for him. Yes the defense could have stopped the Dolphins, even when they were mainly running the ball towards the end and picked up 3 more TDs.