Russell Wilson

[trents]

I thought he was declining but no, I didn’t expect this . I saw decline and documented it last year but the man looks like the worst qb in the league . Geno woukd be 5-1 with that defense . Lots of guys would. It’s shocking to me and becoming a but saddening and alarming to me . He has lost more mentally than physically imo.

I agree, it is sad to see the failure of one who was such an elite player in this league for some years. Russ gave Hawk fans a lot of to be proud of and and a lot of thrilling moments down through the years.

Personally, I think it isn't so much an athletic or "mental" decline as it is psychological. I think Russ got what he wanted when he was traded to Denver and now deeply regrets it. Listen, the Broncos' offense is terrible with or without Russ.

[RiverDog]

I think Russ got what he wanted when he was traded to Denver and now deeply regrets it. Listen, the Broncos' offense is terrible with or without Russ.

We should get at least a partial answer to that question/statement today. If the Broncos offense is truly bad with or without Russell, then they should struggle to put up points with their backup quarterback. The Jets have a defense ranked 9th in the league in total yards.

More drama.

[Hawktawk]

I think Russ got what he wanted when he was traded to Denver and now deeply regrets it. Listen, the Broncos' offense is terrible with or without Russ.

Rd”
We should get at least a partial answer to that question/statement today. If the Broncos offense is truly bad with or without Russell, then they should struggle to put up points with their backup quarterback. The Jets have a defense ranked 9th in the league in total yards.pPresident I

More drama.[/quote]

Denver has the #2 adjusted DVOA defense and the worst offense . This game is about who is right and who is wrong . Is it Hacketts coaching and play calling and game management ? Is Russ just washed up ? Rypien is a wild card . Won the backup
Competition and took a ton of snaps in preseason . 3rd year in the locker room . A deeper dive on his 2020 start shows 2 TD 3 picks somehow 37 points . I think Hackett is going to coach his ass off to try to prove a point . I think this Denver team will rally around this kid .
It’s reported Wilson asked to play and Hackett said no . So good for him. Looking back now seeing how Geno has performed maybe Pete should have saud the same thing . Different circumstances for sure but looks like Hackett is trying to rescue his reputation and career before it’s ever begun .

[RiverDog]

Denver has the #2 adjusted DVOA defense and the worst offense . This game is about who is right and who is wrong . Is it Hacketts coaching and play calling and game management ? Is Russ just washed up ? Rypien is a wild card . Won the backup
Competition and took a ton of snaps in preseason . 3rd year in the locker room . A deeper dive on his 2020 start shows 2 TD 3 picks somehow 37 points . I think Hackett is going to coach his ass off to try to prove a point . I think this Denver team will rally around this kid .
It’s reported Wilson asked to play and Hackett said no . So good for him.

I wonder how much of the decision to start Rypien was due to Russell's injury and how much was related to his performance. If the Broncos were 6-0 and Russell was playing well, it's hard to imagine a coach holding his star QB out if the player felt like he could play. It also could be a little bit of a white lie, that Russell doesn't feel like he can help the team playing injured but wants to maintain his "tough it out" image, so maybe they agreed to let Hackett take the credit for holding him out, which would show fans that it's not a co-head coach situation as has been widely reported, that Hackett is the one calling the shots. Who knows.

It's just one game, so any result will be just an indicator as to "who is right and who is wrong." If Rypien plays well, it will have more of an effect on the fan base than any kind of practical analysis.

[Hawktawk]

I think Russell’s performance is a huge factor . Hard to get worse then 15 ppg. If they were 4-2 scoring 25 a game he’s getting his way . I think everyone except maybe Russ sees a blessing in disguise. And while I agree a game doesn’t prove much it’s another rock on Russels head if this kid comes in and runs this offense well. I’ve seen open guys every game . For our sake I hope he sucks but our luck he’s undefeated and Russels hammy is just lingering a month from now .

[NorthHawk]

We'll see how Rypien does. If he flounders, too then it's expected and par for the course.
But when a team is struggling, players performances are often magnified as being the issue when it's really about the whole team or Offense/Defense.
Either way, I hope they lose.

[Hawktawk]

One game proves nothing . But the horrified furious fans in Denver will get their wish for a week . I know several . They are ready to unfriend me on FB they are so pissed I’m right because I told them the same things I told everyone here . They were beating their chest about stealing the great Wilson from the foolish Seahawks .

For Russ and Paton they better hope he sucks. Hackett needs him to play well . We need them to lose .

so playing devils advocate Denver puts up 28 and defense has a bad day and they lose 29-28. Then what ?

I know with the investment made here there won’t be a qb controversy with the coach and FO this early on but the fans will be ruthless.
And as River said there’s 11 games left on their schedule . Russ could rest up and play well and winning cures a lot of things . Hoping not but nothing in this league surprises me anymore .

[RiverDog]

But when a team is struggling, players performances are often magnified as being the issue when it's really about the whole team or Offense/Defense.

Especially when that player is a high profile quarterback that was supposed to lead his new team to the Super Bowl.

There's talk of Denver throwing in the towel and trading a number of their players by the trading deadline: KJ Hamler, Bradley Chubb, Jerry Jeudy, and Albert Okwuegbunam are all names that I've seen being thrown around:

In fact, with Russell Wilson injured and the 2-4 Broncos underdogs at home today to the Jets, they now might be sellers at the trade deadline.

The Broncos have received multiple trade inquiries about defensive end Bradley Chubb and wide receivers Jerry Jeudy and KJ Hamler and would ponder any serious trade offer, according to Adam Schefter of ESPN.

The report is couched in terms of the Broncos not being willing to sell low, but that’s what teams always say when they’re looking to sell at the trade deadline. Teams don’t want the rest of the league to think they’ll accept a lowball offer, so they say they’ll hold out for a good offer. But still, the Broncos are willing to trade starters before the November 1 trade deadline — not something anyone would have expected before the season.

Chubb is in the final year of his rookie contract, and if the Broncos aren’t expecting to re-sign him in free agency, it could make sense to move him now. Jeudy and Hamler are in the third years of their rookie contracts, and the Broncos may decide it’s better to move on from them now as well.

The new owners of the Broncos can’t be pleased with the state of things in Denver, but if they don’t see the team they currently own as a contender, they may think it’s wise to move on from as many players as they can, and acquire draft picks who can help them win in the future.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... tner=Yahoo

The trading deadline is Nov. 1st, a week from next Tuesday. If the Broncos lose today and the Chiefs and Chargers both win, they could be throwing in the towel on this season and trading some of their biggest assets.

[Aseahawkfan]

I wouldn't trade too much as Denver. Their coach sucks. It once again showed today how bad Hackett is as a coach. He's getting out schemed by any team they play and now did even worse with the backup QB. He's wasting an extremely good defense. I'd fire him now if I were the owners. It's pretty obvious Hackett is a terrible coach.

As a Seattle fan I hope they keep him all season.

[Hawktawk]

I wouldn't trade too much as Denver. Their coach sucks. It once again showed today how bad Hackett is as a coach. He's getting out schemed by any team they play and now did even worse with the backup QB. He's wasting an extremely good defense. I'd fire him now if I were the owners. It's pretty obvious Hackett is a terrible coach.

As a Seattle fan I hope they keep him all season.

Lol I can’t disagree with any of this

[I-5]

This is a ridiculous question, but for the opposite reason that it would have been ridiculous 7 weeks ago. Would any NFL head coach take Russ over Geno right now? When has Russ in his entire career ever throw timing passes the way we’ve watched Geno masterfully execute play designs? Correct me if I’m missing, but when I think of Russ’ best plays, I think of scrambles and bombs…

[Aseahawkfan]

This is a ridiculous question, but for the opposite reason that it would have been ridiculous 7 weeks ago. Would any NFL head coach take Russ over Geno right now? When has Russ in his entire career ever throw timing passes the way we’ve watched Geno masterfully execute play designs? Correct me if I’m missing, but when I think of Russ’ best plays, I think of scrambles and bombs…

Not right now. I wouldn't take Rodgers, Brady, or Russ over Geno right now, and probably not even Herbert.

I'd take Russ in his prime over Geno. Russ has had 4 TD insane games. He's a shadow of what he once was right now, but when he was on top of his game he was amazing.

I still have not seen Geno lead us back in tough games. Russ hasn't been doing that lately either, but Geno hasn't done it at all. We're going to face some tough games from behind.

We're seven games in in a very weird season.

I doubt at the start of the year if anyone would have said the Giants, Jets, and Eagles would doing as well as they are right now.

And Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Russell Wilson are looking pretty bad.

This is one of those straight up oddball seasons.

[I-5]

Not right now. I wouldn't take Rodgers, Brady, or Russ over Geno right now, and probably not even Herbert.

I'd take Russ in his prime over Geno. Russ has had 4 TD insane games. He's a shadow of what he once was right now, but when he was on top of his game he was amazing.

I still have not seen Geno lead us back in tough games. Russ hasn't been doing that lately either, but Geno hasn't done it at all. We're going to face some tough games from behind.

We're seven games in in a very weird season.

I doubt at the start of the year if anyone would have said the Giants, Jets, and Eagles would doing as well as they are right now.

And Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady, and Russell Wilson are looking pretty bad.

This is one of those straight up oddball seasons.

So you haven't seen Russ throw with timing either? I'm sure he has some, but his highlights are predominantly off schedule bombs. Watching the full replay of today's game, and it's so impressive watching Geno's head swivel as he takes time to calmly go through his progressions and release perfectly placed balls. He is playing games with the safety. The guy is totally in charge of this offense with absolutely no panic, even when he takes a sack.

[RiverDog]

I wouldn't trade too much as Denver. Their coach sucks. It once again showed today how bad Hackett is as a coach. He's getting out schemed by any team they play and now did even worse with the backup QB. He's wasting an extremely good defense. I'd fire him now if I were the owners. It's pretty obvious Hackett is a terrible coach.

As a Seattle fan I hope they keep him all season.

I agree with firing Hackett, and the sooner the better. It would give them a leg up in the search for a replacement.

But I disagree that they should stand pat on their roster. As the article points out Bradley Chubb is about to hit free agency, and given Russell's albatross of a contract, it's unlikely that they're going to be able to resign him. It makes sense to trade him now and get something for him. They are without a #1 and #2 pick in next May's draft, and a move like that would seem to make a lot of sense. Heck, JS may want to enter the bidding as Chubb would fill a glaring need on our defense. Give them their own #2 back for Chubb? I don't think we'll be allowed to bid for Chubb as given the results of the Wilson trade, I doubt that the Broncos ownership would have much of an appetite PR wise to dance with us again.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure how many of you were watching the Jets-Broncos game. I was watching the Red Zone and multitasking between our game and the Donkeys. There were several very curious game management decisions made by both teams.

With 12:49 left in the 4th quarter and the Jets up by a score of 13-9, the Jets were on a 10 play drive that had started from their own 28 and were on their way for what would have been a near game clinching TD, 4th and 1 at the Denver 16. They decided to take the FG even though all it did was extend a 4 point lead to 7 points. The Broncos were going to have to score a TD whether they made or missed that FG, so there wasn't very much of an advantage. Failing on 4th and 1 would still give the Broncos 84 yards to go, and they hadn't scored a TD since their first drive. A touchdown by the Jets at that point would have increased their win probability to 95%+ With an athletic QB like Zach Wilson, what are the odds of success in that situation if they were to have gone for it?

The Broncos opted to punt 3 times on 4th and 1 in the 2nd half when they were behind, once at their own 48. They didn't even line up and try to get the defense to jump. Do you think that Hackett's horrible decisions have made him a little gun shy?

Neither quarterback looked very good. Zach Wilson was indecisive and off target, and I don't think Russell has to worry about a QB controversy as Rypien played horribly. For the third time in 7 games, the Broncos were held to less than 10 points, and in 6 of their 7 games, they've been kept to fewer than 20 points. Their high-water mark is 23 points in a loss to the Raiders.

[Aseahawkfan]

So you haven't seen Russ throw with timing either? I'm sure he has some, but his highlights are predominantly off schedule bombs. Watching the full replay of today's game, and it's so impressive watching Geno's head swivel as he takes time to calmly go through his progressions and release perfectly placed balls. He is playing games with the safety. The guy is totally in charge of this offense with absolutely no panic, even when he takes a sack.

I've seen him throw with timing a lot of times. His more spectacular plays are the scramble plays, but he had excellent timing throws too. He often did a lead them to the edge of the end zone throw then placed it where only the receiver could get it. He often did a back corner of the end zone throw that was beautiful. He did a lot of timing throws. But whose going to remember those when there were times he literally took the game over on a game winning drive running and throwing while scrambling looking nearly unstoppable.

I haven't forgotten who Russell in his prime was because Geno is doing well. Russell in his prime was amazing and could take games over where a defense literally could not stop him. But for whatever reason whether slowing due to age or just burn out, he's not that guy right now.

I haven't written him off yet myself. I think a better coach could make him sing again, but Hackett isn't that coach.

People need to not get things twisted, man. DK and Tyler had their best years with Russell. Russell made a no name guy in the Super Bowl look like a superstar. People are piling on right now with Russell performing badly, but Russell has highlights and games many QBs can't touch. He made Jermaine Kearse look great who didn't do much anywhere else. He was a great QB for many years here in Seattle making the Pro Bowl 9 times and setting the bar for the next franchise QB really high.

I get it. You have serious recency bias and a grudge against Russ, but he was a great QB who set the Seattle bar very high. Geno has a lot of hoops to jump through to match what Russ did here.

I'm glad Geno is doing well, but people are forgetting way too quickly how good Russ was all those years.

[Hawktawk]

Russ in his prime could not be defended on a hot day . His greatness is revealed in the sheer statistics he compiled with or without the LOB. Although he never won a divisional his last 7 years here .

But I get what I5 and others are saying about Geno in comparison. Russel never had command of the line of scrimmage like this , pre snap reads , totally calm and in command , barking out the calls to change protections , audibling to huge chunk run plays.

Watching geno go through his progressions is a think of beauty as well as delivering accurate passes on time over the middle , between the hashes , to tightly covered receivers. It bit him in the ass yesterday but he’s more Stafford then Wilson when it comes to sticking it through a mail slot . Just more accurate with less mistakes .

Which guy got the Lombardi last year ? Oh that’s right …..
We can win it all with Geno . I’d trade him for 2 guys , Mahomes and Allen . That’s all .

[NorthHawk]

A lot of the success of players is the situation they are in and the team around them.
Do you really think Rodgers and Brady are as bad as it looks? Of course not, but they are struggling and it doesn't mean they are not as good as or better than Geno.
This is the Offense Russ said he wanted to play in and we saw some of it in 2020 under Shottenheimer when Wilson pretty much won the first 5 games by himself.
It will be interesting to see if Pete pulls back the reins when our Offense has a bad game or two as he did in 2020, or if he will continue to let Waldron run the show.
My guess is Pete allowed the Offense to develop as much as it has because he knew his Defense would in trouble early (like in 2020) but the question still to be answered.
is will he let it continue when we have a multi turnover game that results in a loss?

QBs I would take over Geno are as follows in no particular order:
Patrick Mahomes
Tom Brady
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert
Jalen Hurts
And an outside chance at Dak Prescott

[RiverDog]

A lot of the success of players is the situation they are in and the team around them.
Do you really think Rodgers and Brady are as bad as it looks? Of course not, but they are struggling and it doesn't mean they are not as good as or better than Geno.
This is the Offense Russ said he wanted to play in and we saw some of it in 2020 under Shottenheimer when Wilson pretty much won the first 5 games by himself.
It will be interesting to see if Pete pulls back the reins when our Offense has a bad game or two as he did in 2020, or if he will continue to let Waldron run the show.
My guess is Pete allowed the Offense to develop as much as it has because he knew his Defense would in trouble early (like in 2020) but the question still to be answered.
is will he let it continue when we have a multi turnover game that results in a loss?

QBs I would take over Geno are as follows in no particular order:
Patrick Mahomes
Tom Brady
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert
Jalen Hurts
And an outside chance at Dak Prescott

I'll toss in Tua and Daniel Jones. At 24 and 25 years old, they have one heck of a lot more of an upside than Geno. And that's if we're just talking about quarterbacks.

[I-5]

You would [QBs I would take over Geno are as follows in no particular order:
Patrick Mahomes
Tom Brady
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert
Jalen Hurts
And an outside chance at Dak Prescott[/quote]

I'll toss in Tua and Daniel Jones. At 24 and 25 years old, they have one heck of a lot more of an upside than Geno. And that's if we're just talking about quarterbacks.[/quote]

You would take 50 year old Tom Brady (yes, ok 45) over 32 year old Geno, as well as 3-time concussion Tua? I would not, but ok.

I'm not saying Geno is more talented than those other qb's, so don't get it twisted. He is simply using his talent, coaching, observing the game behind HOF qb's like Rivers and Manning, to maximize what he can from himself and this offense.

[NorthHawk]

The point I was trying to make is the situation changes a lot of perceptions about players and especially QBs.
How good would Mahomes be if he had landed in Cleveland? I doubt he would be anywhere near as successful or be the QB he is today without Andy Reid's Offense and tutelage.
That said, Geno has taken advantage of his chance and more power to him for doing so. He's real lucky he's had a 2nd chance at grasping the brass ring as most players don't get that.

[I-5]

The point I was trying to make is the situation changes a lot of perceptions about players and especially QBs.
How good would Mahomes be if he had landed in Cleveland? I doubt he would be anywhere near as successful or be the QB he is today without Andy Reid's Offense and tutelage.
That said, Geno has taken advantage of his chance and more power to him for doing so. He's real lucky he's had a 2nd chance at grasping the brass ring as most players don't get that.

Absolutely agree. Having said that, to your point, it's clear to see Geno is in the right situation and in full command running this offense. He's not playing above his head at all, he's calm and poised. Like he said after the game, 'I can play better'.

[Hawktawk]

I’ll stick with my list . Thanks though . This season Geno is one of the best and he’s far and away the biggest bargain . And enough about his age . He replaced an older dude who got 160 million . Rogers , Brady ? He’s a kid . And as I pointed out over a year ago now after his performance vs the Rams he’s the lowest mileage guy in the league . Still has 100% of his skills , better than ever actually , better than most who evert played in certain respects such as record accuracy . And this from a guy who was what Russ is now early in his career . It’s a remarkable story . The Brock and Salk show finally capitulated today . Huard said he really doesn’t want to think about our offense without Geno at qb right now . All those guys thought Pete had lost it when he suggested rolling with Geno .

[RiverDog]

QBs I would take over Geno are as follows in no particular order:
Patrick Mahomes
Tom Brady
Josh Allen
Lamar Jackson
Joe Burrow
Justin Herbert
Jalen Hurts
And an outside chance at Dak Prescott

I'll toss in Tua and Daniel Jones. At 24 and 25 years old, they have one heck of a lot more of an upside than Geno. And that's if we're just talking about quarterbacks.

You would take 50 year old Tom Brady (yes, ok 45) over 32 year old Geno, as well as 3-time concussion Tua? I would not, but ok.

I'm not saying Geno is more talented than those other qb's, so don't get it twisted. He is simply using his talent, coaching, observing the game behind HOF qb's like Rivers and Manning, to maximize what he can from himself and this offense.

Phillip Rivers is a HOF quarterback?

[RiverDog]

The point I was trying to make is the situation changes a lot of perceptions about players and especially QBs.
How good would Mahomes be if he had landed in Cleveland? I doubt he would be anywhere near as successful or be the QB he is today without Andy Reid's Offense and tutelage.
That said, Geno has taken advantage of his chance and more power to him for doing so. He's real lucky he's had a 2nd chance at grasping the brass ring as most players don't get that.

Absolutely true. We signed him rather late in the process, so he might not have even gotten a job as a backup had Pete not resisted the temptation to bring in someone like Mayfield or Jimmy G or draft Willis, Corral, etc. Plus I don't know how his DUI got resolved, but he's lucky that we didn't decide to move on after that incident.

Geno needs to be thanking his lucky stars.

[I-5]

Both Geno and Pete are lucky to have each other. Pete deserves a lot of credit for sticking to his philosophy while it seemed everyone discounted the team without Russ.

[I-5]

Phillip Rivers is a HOF quarterback?

Currently no. But he has a very good shot at getting in, according to people more knowledgeable than you and myself.

Would you take 2022 Brady over 2022 Geno?

[RiverDog]

Phillip Rivers is a HOF quarterback?

Currently no. But he has a very good shot at getting in, according to people more knowledgeable than you and myself.

Would you take 2022 Brady over 2022 Geno?

Rivers has a good shot at the HOF? He has the numbers, but so does a whole host of QB's not thought of as HOF material, like Dave Krieg, Carson Palmer, Mathew Stafford, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe. He's never been to a SB, never won a league MVP, and never played for a team named the Cowboys. I don't deny that he has 'a' shot, but I'd flinch if someone says he has a 'good' shot. Flacco, Ryan, and Stafford have all been to Super Bowls during Rivers' era, but I wouldn't rate their chances of someday wearing a gold jacket as 'good', either.

To answer your question, I wouldn't take Brady, or any other QB for that matter, over Geno at this particular moment simply because it would be impossible for him to learn the offense, coaches, players, etc. But if we were starting the year over, you bet, I'd take Brady over Geno.

[obiken]

Rivers has a very good shot? He has the numbers, but so does a whole host of QB's not thought of as HOF material, like Dave Krieg, Carson Palmer, Mathew Stafford, Joe Flacco, Matt Ryan, Vinny Testaverde, and Drew Bledsoe. He's never been to a SB, never won a league MVP, and never played for a team named the Cowboys. I don't deny that he has 'a' shot, but I'd flinch if someone says he has a 'good' shot.

To answer your question, I wouldn't take Brady, or any other QB for that matter, over Geno at this particular moment simply because it would be impossible for him to learn the offense, coaches, player, etc. But if we were starting the year over, you bet, I'd take Brady over Geno.

Come on, Rivers really? Good for atleast one good turnover every big playoff game. Russ's numbers and playoff wins, and two SB tries get thim there. Rivers, no. Karl Mechlenberg's Santa Claus not a chance!! Krieg had too many fumbles, he was too inconsistent. Vinny, really, lol. Come on you wouldnt take Mahomy, Allen, Burrow, in a heartbeat over Geno, come man, your smarter than that!

[I-5]

Taking a 45 year old Brady over 32 year old Geno is insane.

Don't get so hung up on Rivers' and turn it into a separate argument....the point is that Geno got to learn a lot by watching (among other things). Way to go on a tangent.

[RiverDog]

Taking a 45 year old Brady over 32 year old Geno is insane.

Don't get so hung up on Rivers' and turn it into a separate argument....the point is that Geno got to learn a lot by watching (among other things). Way to go on a tangent.

For this season only, I don't think it's insane at all to prefer a 45-year-old Brady over Geno or other QB's that might be having a successful season. Subsequent seasons, then yes, obviously age makes a much greater difference in a preference. But like the HOF discussion about Rivers, it's a moot point.

As far as what Geno has learned and who he learned it from, I'm not sure if HOF qualifications are even relevant. Like Yogi Berra once said, you can observe a lot by just watching.

Some that were very successful players, like Peyton Manning, have very good, refined skills, but aren't very good mentors when it comes to sharing that knowledge, while other, less accomplished quarterbacks, like Mike Holmgren, turn out to be very good teachers. Some have even speculated that the more accomplished the player was, the less likely they are to be an effective coach, the theory being that they have too high of a personal standard due to their own success and don't have as much tolerance for mistakes and growing pains as a lesser player might. There's also the theory that you learn more from watching a bad player as you can see their mistakes and learn what not to do or how to correct it. Sort of like at work where I learned more about our plant when we were broke down or out of grade than I did when it was running smooth as a top.

But I agree that there's likely some areas of his game that has improved due to his experience with other quarterbacks and coaches, which I think is the point you were trying to make.

[Hawktawk]

Rivers has better numbers than lots of guys already in . I say he’s in . Russ is playing his way out and Pete is coaching his way in . Manning is in .

Point being Geno sat 5 years behind 3 really good Hof type guys that won a lot of games . And yeah obviously something rubbed off on him big time . Because the Geno I watched walk on the field at the 2 yard line vs Russels kryptonite was the broken jaw loser pick per TD guy. I didn’t understand why he was on the roster .

98 yards later I was wtf did I just see ? It’s just not a fluke for a guy whose been sitting 5 years to “ surgically dissect “ the rams defense for most of the 4th quarter . A Lockett trip ( not called) led to a pick on a timing route or he may have won the damn game . I’ve been a believer ever since . Had a lot of folks say it was a fluke though . Some still think it’s all a fluke .

It’s clear to me Geno Smith has worked his ass off in the gymn and learning everything there is to know about NFL offensive and defensive concepts . Pre game he rattled off the charger defenders strengths and weaknesses like clockwork . He’s in the film room . Post game he said he’s always known who he is , doesn’t see this as vindication and he knows he’s got to get better to help the team .

It’s just a great story . Yeah he’s lucky he is coached by a guy who can identify qb talent and doesn’t care the history or name on the Jersey . Pete is lucky it’s worked so far as are the fans of the team . We’re not here with Lock or Russ for that matter . I’m lucky cause I can’t get a witness being dead right so I can only imagine if I was dead wrong .

Russel should have been thankful , respectful . That’s the guy that was born seventh son of a seventh son . Blessed. And he threw it away .

[RiverDog]

Rivers has better numbers than lots of guys already in . I say he’s in . Russ is playing his way out and Pete is coaching his way in . Manning is in.

When Dave Krieg retired, there were only 5 players in the entire history of the NFL that had passed for more total yards, and almost no one considered him HOF material. Today, Krieg is ranked 24th all time, which tells you how much the game has changed as far as quarterbacking numbers goes. Clearly, numbers alone won't be enough to get any QB in. Rivers would need something to separate him from his peers, guys like Matt Ryan and Mathew Stafford, active players from his era that will end up with more yardage than Rivers and still not considered a first ballot HOF'er. Clearly, all 3 of those guys are going to need something else, like an MVP or SB MVP. Personally, I don't think any of them are HOF worthy, but I'm not on the committee, either.

Plus, like I said, Rivers didn't play for the Cowboys, which seems to be a trump card of sorts.

[NorthHawk]

There’s also the media hype aspect that players like Krieg didn’t enjoy. If he played in NY with the national media
camped outside his door, he would have had a much better chance. Kind of like Bettis and Cowher in Pittsburgh who have
minimal requirements (in my mind) relative to others that have been overlooked or took many ballots before being inducted.

[RiverDog]

There’s also the media hype aspect that players like Krieg didn’t enjoy. If he played in NY with the national media
camped outside his door, he would have had a much better chance. Kind of like Bettis and Cowher in Pittsburgh who have
minimal requirements (in my mind) relative to others that have been overlooked or took many ballots before being inducted.

Precisely, which is why I said that playing for the Cowboys was a trump card. How else can someone like Drew Pearson get a gold jacket?

[Hawktawk]

Krieg needed a championship . That’s all . And of course the game has changed but you still honor the superstars of each era. Frankly I don’t get worked up about it at all . I want wins . It’s cool our few guys in there but it’s a subjective analysis so there likely is a bias . Don’t give a rip really . Point being Geno sat and learned and prepared behind 3 really good QBs and spent his time wisely other than the Bentley ride .

Although it’s clear Russ went from extremely likely in the HOF in Seattle to likely not a chance not quite halfway through his first season on a new team . The Walton’s are reportedly “ embarrassed “ and considering firing Hackett immediately . Holy cow .

[RiverDog]

So I'll go out on a limb and predict that if the Broncos lose to Jacksonville this Sunday, Hackett gets the axe.

I swear, I made my prediction before I read this article quoting Mike Florio:

"What I know is they have a group of owners who did not hire Nathaniel Hackett and the Walmart crowd, they are smart, they are rich and they are ruthless -- and I mean that in the most positive way that the word ruthless can be used. They are not going to make anything other than a calculated, strategic business decision about what to do with Nathaniel Hackett."

Florio mentioned he has talked to other people in the NFL about how teams may compound mistakes by not admitting to them. But he added that the best football teams are quicker to acknowledge mistakes, and if the Broncos lose to the Jacksonville Jaguars this week, the Walton-Penner ownership group may have seen enough.

Closer to home, KOA Radio's Broncos insider Benjamin Allbright also spoke on the subject of the new owners showing Hackett the door if things continue to go sideways across the pond.

"I would have said (and have) no in-season firing, that they'd wait til after the year, but I know ownership is embarrassed. Really felt a shift yesterday that if this thing doesn't get turned around and fast that anything is possible," Allbright said on Twitter.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/wal ... kett-rumor

FYI this game is across the pond in London, airs at 6:30am PDT this Sunday, and can only be seen live on ESPN+. I've already used up my free trial, so I might just have to subscribe.

[NorthHawk]

Who could they get on short notice?
The Assistant to the HC is Derek Haithcock who's in the first year of his NFL coaching career, so it will probably be their DC Ejiro Evero who's been coaching for 15 years.
I doubt they would want to promote their OC considering how badly that has gone so that would probably leave the DC. He probably couldn't do any worse.
What NFL coaches might be available? Payton is off the table because he belongs to NO and they will want a 1st round pick or more - even if Payton would want to go there.
Maybe they could lure back Fangio? It's a new regime, so who knows - are they still paying him from his old contract?

[Hawktawk]

Krieg needed a championship . That’s all . And of course the game has changed but you still honor the superstars of each era. Frankly I don’t get worked up about it at all . I want wins . It’s cool our few guys in there but it’s a subjective analysis so there likely is a bias . Don’t give a rip really.

""Agreed 100%. Had we won a SB with Krieg at the helm, he would have been a shoe-in given those very impressive stats he put up. Although there are exceptions, like Dan Marino and Dan Fouts, getting that ring is one part of the HOF ticket that has to get punched. And like you, I don't get worked up about it if one of our former Hawks get dissed.

Although it’s clear Russ went from extremely likely in the HOF in Seattle to likely not a chance not quite halfway through his first season on a new team . The Walton’s are reportedly “ embarrassed “ and considering firing Hackett immediately . Holy cow .

I mostly agree. I personally feel that Russell, similar to our discussion about Phillip Rivers, needed another ring or a league MVP in order to be a first ballot HOF'er, that as it stood, he was on the bubble.

Russell has done a huge amount of damage to his chances in his first 6 games. If his new career in Denver ends on a down note, there's not a snowball's chance in hell of him getting a gold jacket.

I'm hearing the same thing about the Denver ownership. Hackett not only could get fired before the end of the season, but he might not even make it to Thanksgiving. It's a new ownership, and they have to be concerned about all the negative PR that's been floating around the team.

The Broncos have another home game, this time against Jacksonville, another team like the Jets that were not expected to contend but have been a bit of a surprise so far, coming within a few feet of upsetting the one loss Giants last week. After that game, they have their bye week, which would be a good time to rid themselves of a head coach as it would give their interim coach a few extra days to pick up the pieces.

So I'll go out on a limb and predict that if the Broncos lose to Jacksonville this Sunday, Hackett gets the axe.[/quote]

Any team with Doug Pederson as coach is one to be wary of. They blew out the preseason wonders the chargers in similar fashion to the Hawks . They have this "generational talent" at QB whatever the hell that means. But Pederson won a Superbowl after getting there with Nick Foles and coached him up well enough to outperform Tom Brady. I had said if Seattle was to move on from Pete that guy would be high on my list.
I expect Denver to lose handily. I wont speculate on Hackett but his head has to be spinning like Linda Blair from the exorcist. Dream job to nightmare in 7 weeks .

[I-5]

For this season only, I don't think it's insane at all to prefer a 45-year-old Brady over Geno or other QB's that might be having a successful season. Subsequent seasons, then yes, obviously age makes a much greater difference in a preference. But like the HOF discussion about Rivers, it's a moot point.

This wasn't clear to me....what is a moot point? I still don't think a 45-year old Brady is preferable to a 32-year old Geno playing in his prime. Just because you have a long track record of success doesn't mean you don't eventually run out. Would you have taken a 39-year old 5-time MVP Peyton Manning over a younger QB in his prime? I for sure would not.