Russell Wilson

[RiverDog]

Payton has taken some of the heat off RW.....after arrogantly saying the Broncos had "one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL" in '22, a 50 point loss makes them looks like....well, one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL. And if you heard his post game presser, he didn't like being reminded that he's did Hackett one better.

Good point. I thought that those remarks were a cheap shot, that Payton should have left that subject for the talking heads. It serves him right that they're coming back to bite him in the arse.

And I'll mentioned that Payton didn't pull Russell at the end of the game as almost every other coach would have if it was that far out of reach in order to protect them from getting injured during garbage time. Is that Payton's MO or was there some other reason why he didn't pull him? Seems strange.

[TriCitySam]

...although after listening to Denver radio (Schlereth & Evans) they still don't like RW much: "coming up, some more 'toxic positivity' from Russell Wilson"

As to the point of Payton not pulling Russ, there has been discussion in Denver that Payton has been moving to bench RW.

[RiverDog]

...although after listening to Denver radio (Schlereth & Evans) they still don't like RW much: "coming up, some more 'toxic positivity' from Russell Wilson"

As to the point of Payton not pulling Russ, there has been discussion in Denver that Payton has been moving to bench RW.

I can see where Russell's personality, that everything is rainbows and unicorns and all his catchy cliches ("Let's ride!"), can grate on a fan base when you're 4-14 as a starter.

If Payton were thinking of benching Wilson, it would have made a lot more sense to pull him in the 4th quarter of the Fins game and get Stidham some work with the first team offense. I don't think it happens, at least not for the next few games.

[c_hawkbob]

At this point it's a hard call on the worse trade for Denver; Peyton or Wilson. No question which one was better for us though!

[4XPIPS]

I can see where Russell's personality, that everything is rainbows and unicorns and all his catchy cliches ("Let's ride!"), can grate on a fan base when you're 4-14 as a starter.

You 1000% correct. He did market himself as the "MAN." I mean when he was pulling his "mr Unlimmmmitedd" vids I was like why are you trying to brand yourself when the Russell Wilson brand was already well established. Anyhow, a lot can happen in a short period of time and maybe he flip the script.

[RiverDog]

I can see where Russell's personality, that everything is rainbows and unicorns and all his catchy cliches ("Let's ride!"), can grate on a fan base when you're 4-14 as a starter.

You 1000% correct. He did market himself as the "MAN." I mean when he was pulling his "mr Unlimmmmitedd" vids I was like why are you trying to brand yourself when the Russell Wilson brand was already well established. Anyhow, a lot can happen in a short period of time and maybe he flip the script.

It's not just the way he was marketing himself, it's how he was documenting every single move both he and his family did, all his goofy statements, like doing knee highs while his teammates slept on the plane to Europe, his wife showing up at the academy awards wearing a skanky dress, the Tim Tebow-ish religious stuff (remember who Tebow played for?), the special perks the team gave him, the huge mansion he bought and the media creating a TD passes to bathrooms ratio, etc. All that stuff when your team is tanking doesn't sit well with fans.

But to his credit, he seems to have toned it down significantly this year, perhaps due to his new coach.

[Aseahawkfan]

I was thinking Denver ownership will have to reach a point where they write in their rules, "Don't trade with Seattle for a QB or you will end up screwed."

[4XPIPS]

Well today's game definitely showed some heated tension between SP and Russ. Russ loses the game on a sack - fumble return for a TD. His legacy is getting scarred week by week, and it's hard to watch. Broncos just needed a game tie-ing FG, but ended that way. Ooof

[trents]

Well today's game definitely showed some heated tension between SP and Russ. Russ loses the game on a sack - fumble return for a TD. His legacy is getting scarred week by week, and it's hard to watch. Broncos just needed a game tie-ing FG, but ended that way. Ooof

Russ has always had a tendency to hang onto the ball too long when being pressured and he's always been kind of fumble prone. And he's lost a little quickness so he's not getting away from pursuers like he used to. Yes, it is sad. What a tumble from the heights of stardom. No doubt, SP's seat is getting a little warm so he's kind of edgy I'm sure. And Russ is not used to getting a tongue lashing from his head coach. The Denver locker room has got to be a miserable place to be right now. That team has nothing going for it.

[RiverDog]

Well today's game definitely showed some heated tension between SP and Russ. Russ loses the game on a sack - fumble return for a TD. His legacy is getting scarred week by week, and it's hard to watch. Broncos just needed a game tie-ing FG, but ended that way. Ooof

Yeah, the ending of that game was ugly. First one Wilson blows an opportunity to put the game away by throwing an interception then a minute or so later, the elder Wilson out does him by getting caught from behind scrambling with a loose football when all they needed was a FG to tie the game.

That last play epitomized what Russell's problem has been over the past 4-5 years, that he holds onto the ball so long that he increases the risk of being sacked and turning the ball over. On that last strip sack, all they needed was about 40 yards with 45 seconds left and one timeout to get into reasonable FG distance. It was a very winnable game for them.

Russell is now 5-15 as a starter for the Broncos, 1-5 this season under the coach who was supposed to "fix" him. And the worst is yet to come as this was the easy part of their schedule. In their next 4 games, they get the Chiefs twice, the Bills and the Packers.

It's looking more and more like our old friend Hawktawk was spot on in his assessment of RW.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, the ending of that game was ugly. First one Wilson blows an opportunity to put the game away by throwing an interception then a minute or so later, the elder Wilson out does him by getting caught from behind scrambling with a loose football when all they needed was a FG to tie the game.

That last play epitomized what Russell's problem has been over the past 4-5 years, that he holds onto the ball so long that he increases the risk of being sacked and turning the ball over. On that last strip sack, all they needed was about 40 yards with 45 seconds left and one timeout to get into reasonable FG distance. It was a very winnable game for them.

Russell is now 5-15 as a starter for the Broncos, 1-5 this season under the coach who was supposed to "fix" him. And the worst is yet to come as this was the easy part of their schedule. In their next 4 games, they get the Chiefs twice, the Bills and the Packers.

It's looking more and more like our old friend Hawktawk was spot on in his assessment of RW.

Russ ain't the reason they're losing the games this year, so that narrative don't fit. Russell is outperforming Geno this year. He's back to his old self with efficient and effective play.

This year the Broncos defense is a wreck.

Even with a FG, they only tie that game. It was 24-21 before Jets Breece took it to the house.

If the Broncos had the same defense as last year with Russ playing like he is now, they would be 4 and 1 rather than 1 and 4 with fans looking forward to divisional games. So your narrative don't quite fit the reality of the Broncos.

But now Payton has the QB fixed and the defense broken. And that don't work either.

I do agree he is holding the ball too long as he has always done during his good and bad years including both years we went to the Super Bowl including the winning year. Russ has never gotten the ball out fast on a consistent basis because of his scramble style of play. He isn't that type of QB and probably never will be.

But he certainly isn't having a bad year this year and isn't why Denver is losing.

I'm still of the mind Russ and Pete might still end up in the same place at the end of it all: not much to show compared to what they did together. Teams have passed Seattle by and Denver is way more than a QB away from competing even with better offensive coaching.

I still have no trust Geno can lead us to the promised land. Geno seems to have a ceiling and severe limitations if things aren't going well in other aspects of the game. He still looks like a bridge QB to me and seems our vaunted tackles that looked so promising last year can't stay on the field.

It's pretty irritating to be honest with you.

[trents]

You are correct about the Bronco defense being broken and bearing a major portion of blame for poor team W/L record but to say that Russ is back to the old Russ we knew is a bit of an overstatement.

[RiverDog]

You are correct about the Bronco defense being broken and bearing a major portion of blame for poor team W/L record but to say that Russ is back to the old Russ we knew is a bit of an overstatement.

I agree that Russell hasn't been their primary reason for losing, with the Jets game being the exception. ASF is correct. The primary blame for Denver's woes has to be on the defense. I heard where they've given up the 2nd most points through 5 games in the history of the NFL, a stat heavily weighted by the 70 points the Fins rang up on them.

But while Russell hasn't stunk...he has some very respectable stats, particularly his TD:INT ratio...he hasn't performed when it counts, last week being a prime example. They've had some very winnable games, the only game not in that category being the aforementioned Dolphins game. They lost their first two games by a total of 3 points then were trailing by just 3 with under a minute when Russell gave up the strip sack scoop and score. He's still talking too much time to throw, his 3.15 second average being the longest in the league, a stat that is directly related to his taking too many sacks, averaging 3 per game. He still hasn't adjusted his game to compensate for his heavier legs.

[Aseahawkfan]

You are correct about the Bronco defense being broken and bearing a major portion of blame for poor team W/L record but to say that Russ is back to the old Russ we knew is a bit of an overstatement.

Russ ain't prime young Russ with fresh legs. But he is back to what he was in terms of efficient effective play. Just can't do the magic at the end any more like he once could with his legs. Even in Seattle Russ was a bomber scoring more TDs outside the red zone than in it. Biggest difference I see between Prime Russ and this Russ is the legs can't do as much as they used to be able to do. He's lost some of his speed and that definitely was a major part of his game. He is never going to be a Brady or a Peyton getting the ball out fast and using a WCO style of play. If he had a good team around him like we had back in the Prime Russ days, he could still win. Denver isn't good and is far from that. I figure Denver is screwed as far as taking advantage of Russ's talents even with a better offensive coach.

I'm still wondering if Pete is going to put anything substantial together with Geno as QB. Geno underwhelms me. He looks like this is his peak and if the team can't get a whole lot better around him, then we're kind of a borderline playoff team under Geno.

[4XPIPS]

How bad the last year and half has gone for Russell, would this push him from being a first ballot hall of famer to just a hall of famer? I mean if he retired year before last where he was still putting up good numbers, I thought for sure he would be a first ballot hall of famer, but now its not looking that way at all. Maybe he can have a Brett Favre finish to his career, where he stunk it up as a Jets QB, and then went to the Vikings and tore it up.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Geno had the better season last season with a worse defense.

Going by their stats through week 4, Russ is not outperforming Geno. Geno has a slightly higher completion percentage. Russ has a little more yards. 5/1 vs 9/2 TD/int.

Wilson isn’t the sole reason Denver is losing, but he tried to rely on a part of his game that isn’t there anymore and paid for it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Geno had the better season last season with a worse defense.

Going by their stats through week 4, Russ is not outperforming Geno. Geno has a slightly higher completion percentage. Russ has a little more yards. 5/1 vs 9/2 TD/int.

Wilson isn’t the sole reason Denver is losing, but he tried to rely on a part of his game that isn’t there anymore and paid for it.

Russ is outperforming Geno. TD to int ratio is cherry picking. Russ overall stats better than Geno. We'll see if it holds up by the end of the year. Right now Russ is back to what he was when he left Seattle.

I'd still take Russ over Geno myself. I know some differ.

To me Geno isn't a playoff performer and probably never will be.

That being said I can't wait to draft a new QB. We got all we could out of Russ. Geno is a bridge QB, not a guy getting us to the promised land.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I didn’t cherry pick. I flat out said Geno has a slightly better completion percentage. Russell slightly more yards. And their TD/INT ratio is pretty much the same: about 5:1 vs 9:2 (4.5:1). I said Russel is not outperforming Geno. I did not say Geno is outperforming Russell. They are about the same. If you’re counting Russel’s stats through week 5, you’re making an unfair comparison. You should compare their first four games or wait until after Denver’s bye week. Russel is not overall better through week 4. His 11 TDs are offset by Seattle getting more rushing TDs (5 to 1).

Pretty sure everyone here doesn’t believe Geno is the long term answer. He needs a very good team around him to do well. My take is this team is a division round win at best this season. It would take soemthing really special and some serious luck to get further than that.

Still a lot of football left to play. Geno has to not tail off like he did last season. Wilson needs avoid those types of critical mistakes.

[Stream Hawk]

I really do wish HT was still here. “Talk” about some SERIOUS gloating opportunities . Yes, ASea, Russell has done better this year. But he’s definitely being coddled by his dictator coach. He cannot take over a game anymore. His days of dominance are done. Probably doesn’t help that Denver gave up the farm for him. They aren’t good, and he simply is not able to put a shitty team on his back. Russ is no longer a top 5 qb.

Seattle, on the other hand, is in SUCH a better position with Geno than they would be with Russ. He gets the ball out quicker and can find his weapons. Simple, and there’s several weapon. It is looking more and more like the steal/fleecing of the decade plus.

[trents]

Wilson isn’t the sole reason Denver is losing, but he tried to rely on a part of his game that isn’t there anymore and paid for it.

Well said! That's it.

[RiverDog]

Russ is outperforming Geno. TD to int ratio is cherry picking. Russ overall stats better than Geno. We'll see if it holds up by the end of the year. Right now Russ is back to what he was when he left Seattle.

I'd still take Russ over Geno myself. I know some differ.

To me Geno isn't a playoff performer and probably never will be.

That being said I can't wait to draft a new QB. We got all we could out of Russ. Geno is a bridge QB, not a guy getting us to the promised land.

OK, let's break this down statistically. Completion percentage: Geno 68.3, Russell 66.9.
Passing yards/game: Geno 211, Russell 242
Yards/attempt: Geno 6.9, Russell 7.4
TD:INT Geno 5:1, Russell11:2 (virtually a tie)
Rushing: Russell 23.8/game, 6.6 per carry. Geno 5.5/game, 2.8/carry
Sacks per game: Geno 1.75, Russell 3.0
Turnovers per game: Russell .8, Geno .25
Winning % Russell .200, Geno .750

If we were playing Fantasy Football, Russell would have a clear edge. Total yards and touchdowns are king in that contest. But I have to point to the last 3 stats I quoted, and yes, perhaps they're cherry picked, but they are significant and demonstrates why I feel that Geno has the clear edge at this point in the season.

At this point, I'd take Geno over Russell. I can't help looking at that win/loss number. In close games where quarterbacking is often times the deciding factor, Russell is 1-3, Geno 1-0.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Again, I want to point out Wilson has 1 extra game over Geno. It can skew comparisons a bit.

[RiverDog]

Again, I want to point out Wilson has 1 extra game over Geno. It can skew comparisons a bit.

Which is why I used average per game when applicable.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I get that; it's more for anyone pointing to Wilson's higher number of TDs and yards as him playing better.

[Aseahawkfan]

OK, let's break this down statistically. Completion percentage: Geno 68.3, Russell 66.9.
Passing yards/game: Geno 211, Russell 242
Yards/attempt: Geno 6.9, Russell 7.4
TD:INT Geno 5:1, Russell11:2 (virtually a tie)
Rushing: Russell 23.8/game, 6.6 per carry. Geno 5.5/game, 2.8/carry
Sacks per game: Geno 1.75, Russell 3.0
Turnovers per game: Russell .8, Geno .25
Winning % Russell .200, Geno .750

If we were playing Fantasy Football, Russell would have a clear edge. Total yards and touchdowns are king in that contest. But I have to point to the last 3 stats I quoted, and yes, perhaps they're cherry picked, but they are significant and demonstrates why I feel that Geno has the clear edge at this point in the season.

At this point, I'd take Geno over Russell. I can't help looking at that win/loss number. In close games where quarterbacking is often times the deciding factor, Russell is 1-3, Geno 1-0.

Russ in Seattle would be outperforming Geno by a wider margin. I'd still take him over Geno on the current team with our skill players.

Geno doesn't impress me with the eye test. Seems like the type of QB we know as a "game manager" or "bridge QB" which as far as I'm concerned is the same as having losing seasons with worse draft picks.

That's where I feel we're at right now with Carroll. Wheels are spinning, mediocrity is the result, need to change out the coaching and possibly the GM.

[Aseahawkfan]

I really do wish HT was still here. “Talk” about some SERIOUS gloating opportunities . Yes, ASea, Russell has done better this year. But he’s definitely being coddled by his dictator coach. He cannot take over a game anymore. His days of dominance are done. Probably doesn’t help that Denver gave up the farm for him. They aren’t good, and he simply is not able to put a shitty team on his back. Russ is no longer a top 5 qb.

Seattle, on the other hand, is in SUCH a better position with Geno than they would be with Russ. He gets the ball out quicker and can find his weapons. Simple, and there’s several weapon. It is looking more and more like the steal/fleecing of the decade plus.

I don't believe this at all. We would still be better with Russ with the same players, which we wouldn't have if we had not traded Russ. So it's a moot point.

You say Russ can't take over games any more, but Geno never could take them over and never will be able to take them over. He's a game manager with no ability to elevate his game. As I see it this team is spinning its wheels with him at QB and it will become apparent this year and next year and every year Geno is here that this team is stuck in mediocrity and going nowhere until we find our next QB to elevate the team.

The only reason people are loving Geno right now is they're still high from the Russ trade and the fact Geno isn't terrible. But this middle of the pack play with no ability to elevate is going to get old. I would not be surprised if by the end of the year and definitely going into next year people are tired of the mediocrity. The high of "winning the Russell Wilson" trade will have faded and the reality of "We're still not going anywhere with Carroll and Geno" will start.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

So now it’s Russ would be outperforming Geno if Russ was on this team now? That’s a lot different than Wilson is outperforming Geno this season.

And it doesn’t really matter if Geno can’t take over games as long as the team can win.

And of course people are high on the trade. The talent infusion was huge, and Geno is the right call for a short term solution at QB. Everyone knows he’s not the long term answer. He’s in year 2 of a 3 year contract. They’ve set the table and We fully expect a QB to be drafted.

Geno isn’t just not terrible; he’s pretty good. He executes the offense; spreads the ball around. He’s not the first QB to need a team around him (they all do, some more or less than others). That’s not a knock especially if the team can win. This team can. How much remains to be seen.

The fan base knows where it all stands. Geno is performing better than expected and gives this team the best chance to win at the present.

[EmeraldBullet]

Some of these posts are crazy consiering we are 3-1. This isnt how a rebuild usually goes. Our GM and coaching staff are a huge part of that. Id much rather have Geno with this team than Wilson. Geno doesnt destroy the locker room like Wilson would. Its not that Denver doesnt have weapons on offense. Wilson is a liability to the broncos. He isnt the same player anymore that he was when he was here. Will Geno get us to a superbowl victory? Probably not, but winning games and making the playoffs and getting our young defense playoff experience for the future is what will help us get there when we draft a young QB sometime in the future.

[RiverDog]

I don't believe this at all. We would still be better with Russ with the same players, which we wouldn't have if we had not traded Russ. So it's a moot point.

You say Russ can't take over games any more, but Geno never could take them over and never will be able to take them over. He's a game manager with no ability to elevate his game. As I see it this team is spinning its wheels with him at QB and it will become apparent this year and next year and every year Geno is here that this team is stuck in mediocrity and going nowhere until we find our next QB to elevate the team.

The only reason people are loving Geno right now is they're still high from the Russ trade and the fact Geno isn't terrible. But this middle of the pack play with no ability to elevate is going to get old. I would not be surprised if by the end of the year and definitely going into next year people are tired of the mediocrity. The high of "winning the Russell Wilson" trade will have faded and the reality of "We're still not going anywhere with Carroll and Geno" will start.

Yeah, Mack is right, you're moving the goal posts. You said that Russell was outperforming Russell, period. Now, you're adding the qualifier "we would still be better with Russ with the same players". But you're right, it's a moot point. This is a silly argument we're engaging in.

Bottom line is that there is no way I would want Russell back on this team. He's washed up, hasn't changed his game to compensate for his advancing age. Even playing for his preferred coach, he's still holding onto the ball too long, taking too many sacks. I'd much rather have Geno quarterbacking this team. He's a bridge quarterback at best, but he gives us a better chance to win and he's not going to be difficult to move on from once we find our QBOTF. Plus, Russell's personality has changed. He and Pete clearly didn't see eye to eye. One of them had to go. And financially, it would have been a disaster to have signed Russell to a contract similar to the one the Broncos did for him.

I'll always be grateful for Russell's contributions to the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history, including our only Lombardi. But the best thing Pete and John did was to move on from him, fleece some unsuspecting team of a king's ransom and build towards our future. We weren't going anywhere with Russell as our quarterback.

[Aseahawkfan]

I have changed my mind. I'd keep Geno over Russ. Don't really want either one honestly, but at this point given only those two choices, I'd take Geno over Russ.
Russ looks like a shadow of once he once was. He doesn't have any fire any more, doesn't seem to read anything, really looks lost and like he barley cares. It's over for him.

I'm ready to move on from this whole era. I'm tired of watching Pete keep trying to fix this defense too and changing DCs and OCs.

I'm ready for new management and coaching in Seattle.

Denver lost this deal big time. They're going to need to dump Russ as soon as possible. He's absolutely terrible. Backup QB material at best at this point.

[Stream Hawk]

I have changed my mind. I'd keep Russ over Geno. Don't really want either one honestly, but at this point given only those two choices, I'd take Russ over Geno.
Russ looks like a shadow of once he once was. He doesn't have any fire any more, doesn't seem to read anything, really looks lost and like he barley cares. It's over for him.

I'm ready to move on from this whole era. I'm tired of watching Pete keep trying to fix this defense too and changing DCs and OCs.

I'm ready for new management and coaching in Seattle.

Denver lost this deal big time. They're going to need to dump Russ as soon as possible. He's absolutely terrible. Backup QB material at best at this point.

Right. But you opened with “I’d keep Russ over Geno”. So I am pretty sure that contradicts everything you’ve said prior.

But I agree with your last few statements. Dude is done.

[RiverDog]

Especially after watching last night's performance, I can't imagine an objective person choosing Russell over Geno. It's a purely romantic notion not based in any kind of reality. At this point, there aren't very many starting quarterbacks that I wouldn't take over Russell, probably the NY QB's, but beyond those two, the list is pretty damn short. I don't know how much weight we should put on ESPN's QBR, but Russell is ranked #28 in that category.

Russell was 13-22 for 95 yards one TD, an embarrassing 3.2 yards per attempt, two picks, and took 4 sacks. Not sure how many passes he had knocked down at the LOS, maybe 4 or 5, with one of them accounting for one of the INT's, the 2nd pick a completely unforced bad read. They were heading for Payton's first ever shutout until they finally scored late in the 4th quarter. Their defense actually played pretty well, limiting a very good offense to just 1 TD.

The Donkeys are now 1-5 for the season, 5-16 over two seasons with Russell as a starter. He's taken 19 sacks so far this season, on pace to equal his league leading 55 sacks last year.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure Geno would fare much better. The Broncos Offense really wasn't doing much right with the OL performing poorly and the Receivers not really getting open. Add to it Wilson's woes and it wasn't a good show.
But how does Geno react to constant pressure? We don't know because Waldron schemes plays to get rid of the ball quickly and gets Receivers open quickly. As well, our run blocking has been pretty good at times.
So it's pretty difficult to say one player would do better than the other, but if they were both on the same team, and I was in control, I would be all for finding out.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I'm not sure Geno would fare much better. The Broncos Offense really wasn't doing much right with the OL performing poorly and the Receivers not really getting open. Add to it Wilson's woes and it wasn't a good show.
But how does Geno react to constant pressure? We don't know because Waldron schemes plays to get rid of the ball quickly and gets Receivers open quickly. As well, our run blocking has been pretty good at times.
So it's pretty difficult to say one player would do better than the other, but if they were both on the same team, and I was in control, I would be all for finding out.

A highly effective strategy for any OC. It's why Brock Purdy is so successful. Not that you're arguing to the contrary, it's just an approach I am more than happy to live with, and one I am not sure Russell Wilson would acclimate to. As you said, if we had them both with this team, it would be interesting to see what Wilson could do with the talent acquired from his trade and conforming to Waldron's scheme.

I watched the entire game last night. I sucked watching Russell struggle so much, though they did highlight the lack of separation by receivers. Even worse was watching a very good defensive performance on the road go to waste. Your offense has to step and do something when Mahomes and Co. are held to 19 points.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure Geno would fare much better. The Broncos Offense really wasn't doing much right with the OL performing poorly and the Receivers not really getting open. Add to it Wilson's woes and it wasn't a good show.
But how does Geno react to constant pressure? We don't know because Waldron schemes plays to get rid of the ball quickly and gets Receivers open quickly. As well, our run blocking has been pretty good at times.
So it's pretty difficult to say one player would do better than the other, but if they were both on the same team, and I was in control, I would be all for finding out.

Geo HAS fared better. He performed better in Waldron's offense in 2022 than Russell did in 2021.

Besides, it's a moot point. We've already made the decision to cut the cord with Russell, and there's no doubt that we're better off for having done so. Geno is our quarterback, and although I don't think he's the solution, he is a decent bridge QB until we find our QBOTF. I'm still not convinced that Pete and John are ever going to be able to get this team back to the status we once held, that we are doomed to mediocrity. But that's a discussion for another day.

[TriCitySam]

Wow, stunning to consider the Hawks performance as "mediocre". 32 teams, only 5 with a better record than Pete has delivered over the past 5 years, and only 4 over the past 10 years. Mediocre only fits if you're completely unrealistic, which many fans are unfortunately.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I took that as NorthHawk meant that Geno would do no better if he were on Denver's team this season. Which might be true but is equally moot to what Wilson could do with this year's Seahawks.

Pete and John did what I thought was appropriate and load up on talent with the extra draft capital these last two drafts. Next year's draft they have to get a legit QB prospect, even if it means trading up. It's a move they have to make if they have aspirations of building a consistent contender.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Wow, stunning to consider the Hawks performance as "mediocre". 32 teams, only 5 with a better record than Pete has delivered over the past 5 years, and only 4 over the past 10 years. Mediocre only fits if you're completely unrealistic, which many fans are unfortunately.

I get that argument, but even I look through the lens of getting back to the Super Bowl. Pete and John didn't make the right moves after that Super Bowl loss. The dynamic changed a lot. Moving on from Wilson while getting a king's ransom in draft capital in the process renewed some of my faith that they are getting back to what made them successful Super Bowl contenders, but, as I stated in my previous post, they have to get a legit young quarterback in next year's draft.

[RiverDog]

Wow, stunning to consider the Hawks performance as "mediocre". 32 teams, only 5 with a better record than Pete has delivered over the past 5 years, and only 4 over the past 10 years. Mediocre only fits if you're completely unrealistic, which many fans are unfortunately.

And Pete's playoff record over those 5 years is 1-4. Not good enough to compete for a SB yet too good to clean house and start over. That's what I call mediocre. Sorry if I'm so unrealistic to expect such a great coach to at least get us past the first round of the playoffs.

[trents]

49er's had a shutdown secondary last night. Denver just did not have any open receivers last night on down field routes and we all know that Russ' bread and butter has always been the long ball.