Russell Wilson

[Aseahawkfan]

And there it is. Still not seeing Russell’s accountability in this. Not you, River.

I listed Russ's accountability. I don't think it is any of the following:

1. Russ not working hard in the offseason.

2. Russ being full of himself.

3. Anything that has to do with Russ slacking off or not giving everything he had to succeed.

Russ's accountability to simplify it:

1. Russ did not grasp the offensive concepts in Hackett's offense well.

2. Russ wanted to blend his dynamic style of play where he runs around into an offense based more on timing, which does not work. A WCO is a quick release short passing game based offense and Russ trying to play like he did in Seattle doesn't make that type of offense run well. He was not willing to admit this. Too stubborn in his belief he can make it work.

3. Russ thought he was Peyton Manning and could run an offense like Peyton. He is not and cannot run an offense that way. Russ should be able to admit this and accept coaching like hopefully he will do with Sean Payton.

No one else is Peyton Manning, not even Brady. Peyton was one of the few QBs that could run a team like his own offensive coordinator. I don't know of any other QBs that can do this off the top of my head honestly. Russ thought he could do it and he can't. Hopefully he learned that lesson.

4. The power dynamic was such that Russ was going to do things Russ's way in Denver. It's what he wanted. He gave it a shot and it didn't work.

Couple that with all the other factors like injuries to the O-line, injuries to the running game, and bad coaching and you get a recipe for a terrible offense.

Russ was culpable, just not due to not trying or showing up in bad condition or bringing in some other assistant. Russ had a different vision of who he is and hopefully that vision is gone.

I've heard Sean Payton speak about Russ prior to taking the head coach job. He was very clear that he felt the offensive design was bad in Denver for a player like Russ. It wasn't playing to Russ's strengths. If he were head coach, he would design he offense to use Russ's strengths.

Payton has sufficient stature to hold power in the head coach-QB power dynamic in Denver Hackett never had and probably didn't know how to use. Payton has Russ's respect. So if Russ has anything left in the tank, a coach like Payton will get it out of him. If Russ is cooked, his career is done. Denver will have a pretty good idea of that after this year.

I did not in any way not hold Russ accountable, though I don't really see that word as important myself. In the NFL you earn your contract through previous year's play or rookie standards. Russ's future money, endorsements, and the like will not be decided why whether fans hold him accountable or speculate and gossip on forums. Russ's future will be decided by him, same as his past play earned him that giant contract and us the enormous draft capital we received.

I'm never going to dislike Russ. Near as I can tell Russ is the best player to ever put on a Seattle uniform. He's been nothing but good for us. He'll go down as one of the best draft picks in Seattle history.

1. Best Seattle QB setting a high bar.

2. Won us a Super Bowl.

3. Helped lead the team to a second.

4. Playoffs in 8 of his 10 years here.

5. Even when he left, netted us 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, and a few quality players like Fant and Shelby.

Having Russ on the team in Seattle has been nothing but a net positive for us, so why should I worry too much about holding him accountable? When I do the accounting for Seattle, Russ has done nothing but good things for us.

[RiverDog]

I listed Russ's accountability. I don't think it is any of the following:

1. Russ not working hard in the offseason.

2. Russ being full of himself.

3. Anything that has to do with Russ slacking off or not giving everything he had to succeed.

I disagree. I think it's undeniable that Russell slacked, both physically and mentally. He obviously didn't know the playbook and was woefully unprepared for the season if he was still using Seahawk terminology, and the dysfunctional way their offense looked in that first game against us is a huge implication of a quarterback/coach combo that wasn't ready for Prime Time. And as we discussed to great length, he was overweight, and they've since had him embark on a weight loss program. That's not proof, but it is evidence.

But the real killer is his failure to play in the preseason. It's extremely unusual for a QB with a new team to sit out the entire preseason. Matt Ryan is a veteran QB who changed teams, and he played in the preseason. Hell, even the GOAT played in the preseason, and he hadn't even changed teams. That decision was at least partially Russell's as I can't imagine Hackett holding him out if Russ wanted to play. If that's not proof of a quarterback slacking, I don't know what is. How can anybody spin that fact to make it look like he was "giving everything he had to succeed"?

And I do think that he is, or was, full of himself. He either demanded or willingly accepted perks like his own private parking, office in the training facility, and his own "Team 3" that was allowed in the facility. There are other examples, but I'll keep it short.

I think you're still seeing the Russell that we all knew and loved over the past 10 years. That's not the current day Russell. He's changed.

I'm never going to dislike Russ. Near as I can tell Russ is the best player to ever put on a Seattle uniform. He's been nothing but good for us. He'll go down as one of the best draft picks in Seattle history.

1. Best Seattle QB setting a high bar.

2. Won us a Super Bowl.

3. Helped lead the team to a second.

4. Playoffs in 8 of his 10 years here.

5. Even when he left, netted us 2 1st round picks, 2 2nd round picks, and a few quality players like Fant and Shelby.

Having Russ on the team in Seattle has been nothing but a net positive for us, so why should I worry too much about holding him accountable? When I do the accounting for Seattle, Russ has done nothing but good things for us.

I'm with ya on that one. I'll never dislike him or not be grateful for his role in the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history.

But I've lost a lot of respect for him. He took some subtle, unprovoked shots at our team, like saying he signed with Denver because he wasn't going to have to carry the team on his shoulders alone, the implication being that he had to do that in Seattle. And if there's any truth to the rumors that he tried to get PC/JS fired, it's very disturbing to say the least as it would be an unforgivable breach of loyalty to the two people that gave him his big break.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I disagree. I think it's undeniable that Russell slacked, both physically and mentally. He obviously didn't know the playbook and was woefully unprepared for the season if he was still using Seahawk terminology, and the dysfunctional way their offense looked in that first game against us is a huge implication of a quarterback/coach combo that wasn't ready for Prime Time. And as we discussed to great length, he was overweight, and they've since had him embark on a weight loss program. That's not proof, but it is evidence.

But the real killer is his failure to play in the preseason. It's extremely unusual for a QB with a new team to sit out the entire preseason. Matt Ryan is a veteran QB who changed teams, and he played in the preseason. Hell, even the GOAT played in the preseason, and he hadn't even changed teams. That decision was at least partially Russell's as I can't imagine Hackett holding him out if Russ wanted to play. If that's not proof of a quarterback slacking, I don't know what is. How can anybody spin that fact to make it look like he was "giving everything he had to succeed"?

And I do think that he is, or was, full of himself. He either demanded or willingly accepted perks like his own private parking, office in the training facility, and his own "Team 3" that was allowed in the facility. There are other examples, but I'll keep it short.

I think you're still seeing the Russell that we all knew and loved over the past 10 years. That's not the current day Russell. He's changed.

Yes, indeed. I've been beating the he's changed drum for some time now. It was the heart of my statement when I compared his transition from NC State to Wisconsin and then to the pros. They guy just had "it" and took to a new situation with gusto and succeeded almost immediately. Not sure why that didn't happen in Denver. Why I think something significantly is off with him personally. Doesn't make him a bad person, but he's not in the same headspace when it comes to the game, in my opinion.

I'm with ya on that one. I'll never dislike him or not be grateful for his role in the best period of Seahawk football in franchise history.

But I've lost a lot of respect for him. He took some subtle, unprovoked shots at our team, like saying he signed with Denver because he wasn't going to have to carry the team on his shoulders alone, the implication being that he had to do that in Seattle. And if there's any truth to the rumors that he tried to get PC/JS fired, it's very disturbing to say the least as it would be an unforgivable breach of loyalty to the two people that gave him his big break.

Agreed with Asea's last statement, too, but none of that let's Wilson off the hook for his own shortcomings, and they are not all related to just his first season in Denver. Something was changing in his last two seasons with the Seahawks, and it wasn't all external circumstances.

And, yeah, players earn contracts based on past performance, but I expect more out of a $50 million dollar quarterback who fancies himself among the elite. And so do the teams who are forking over the dough. The greats don't rest on their laurels. I'm not saying Russell is doing that, but it won't be a good look if he has another season like last season. There won't be much room to defend him.

[NorthHawk]

I think Russ fully understood the playbook. After all, he was working with Hackett in building it. How could he not know it?
But the rest of the Offense might not have known who was in charge. Was it Russ, was it the OC, was it Hackett? It's a recipe for a bad result and if Russ has lost some of his magic, it adds to the problems.
But nobody has ever said he didn't work hard or didn't want to win.

[RiverDog]

I think Russ fully understood the playbook. After all, he was working with Hackett in building it. How could he not know it?
But the rest of the Offense might not have known who was in charge. Was it Russ, was it the OC, was it Hackett? It's a recipe for a bad result and if Russ has lost some of his magic, it adds to the problems.
But nobody has ever said he didn't work hard or didn't want to win.

If Russell knew the playbook so well, then why would he start using code words in audibles that were from his Seattle days?

"Russ is losing his mind out there-- he's using audibles from the Seahawks. The guys don't know the audibles. He's using codewords that the guys don't know" @Tyler_Polumbus on what he's hearing from inside the organization.

Benjamin Allbright later followed up saying there was some truth to this report (that Russell was using Seahawk code words). That is actually insane! No wonder the Broncos’ offense is completely broken out there everywhere. I leaned on this being Nathaniel Hackett’s issue, but if Wilson is out there calling audibles no one even understands then I may have to adjust my line of thinking there.

There is clearly some missing context. We don’t actually know if this is something that is happening every game or if its just a couple of times. However, in a lot of ways, this just confirms my biggest concern: Russell Wilson and Nathaniel Hackett just aren’t on the same page leading to complete dysfunction. Hackett’s play-calling isn’t working and maybe Wilson is just trying to get into plays that he knows will actual work.

https://www.milehighreport.com/2022/11/ ... 5BSmyth%5D.

For whatever reason, Russell and Hackett were both ill prepared. That was blatantly obvious to even the most casual of fan. I don't know why some of you insist that Russell 'fully understood the playbook'.

[RiverDog]

Yes, indeed. I've been beating the he's changed drum for some time now. It was the heart of my statement when I compared his transition from NC State to Wisconsin and then to the pros. They guy just had "it" and took to a new situation with gusto and succeeded almost immediately. Not sure why that didn't happen in Denver. Why I think something significantly is off with him personally. Doesn't make him a bad person, but he's not in the same headspace when it comes to the game, in my opinion.

I've mentioned this several times, but there was a story in our local paper prior to SB 48 that featured a lady who hosted Russell and several other players when Russell played minor league baseball in Pasco. She said that she'd get up at 3am to use the restroom, see that a light was on in the living room, and saw that it was Russell studying "his North Carolina (State) stuff". She also said that the other players were always going out on their nights off, but that Russell seldom did, rather stayed behind so he could study. That article is one of the things that first endeared me to Russell:

At Brunsdon’s house, Wilson kept to himself. He studied his NC State football playbook and read his Bible. He talked often with his family out east. He didn’t party or hit the bars with teammates, and if he did, he didn’t drink.

Anything we had to be at he was going to be the first one there, no doubt about it,” Massanari said. “I think we had mandatory three days a week we had to be at the gym. He was going to be there early, he was going to be there late. If it was the (batting) cage, he was never going to be the first one to leave the field. He was one of the last guys to get out of there and one of the first guys to get there every day.”

If the Dust Devils (minor league team in Pasco) were scheduled to play a night game, Wilson would be there at noon — the same time as the coaching staff — to field grounders or work on his swing. In addition to mandatory infielder practices, Wilson would schedule individual sessions with other members of the staff. Anything deemed “optional” seemed mandatory in Wilson’s mind.

He did his due diligence away from the field as well, pestering the coaching staff for additional information on opposing pitchers to add to his own research.

“You probably can’t find many people who prepare as well as he does for games,” said Josh Rutledge, the team’s shortstop in 2010 and Wilson’s road roommate. “And he takes practice really seriously.”

That's not the same article I read in our local paper, but it's enough for you to get the drift. There's lots more if anyone's interested and can get by the Athletics' paywall.

https://theathletic.com/898750/2019/04/ ... n=13360850

But that Russell Wilson is no more. The man has definitely changed. He's still a nice guy and everything, but he's gotten too big for his britches.

[NorthHawk]

I sure hope that if you build something that you understand it. A playbook isn't rocket science, but it can be a little complicated for some.
Calling the wrong audibles? Maybe it's evidence of part of the decline we've seen. Maybe he had his bell rung and was confused or maybe the moment was just too big for him and he fell into old habits. Or maybe he's not that bright after all.
We'll see how he does this year with Payton being the top dog and him just being a spear carrier running the plays as called.

[RiverDog]

I sure hope that if you build something that you understand it. A playbook isn't rocket science, but it can be a little complicated for some.
Calling the wrong audibles? Maybe it's evidence of part of the decline we've seen. Maybe he had his bell rung and was confused or maybe the moment was just too big for him and he fell into old habits. Or maybe he's not that bright after all.
We'll see how he does this year with Payton being the top dog and him just being a spear carrier running the plays as called.

Whether you are part of the building process or not, you still have to do a lot of homework to get it ingrained into your memory. IMO Russell simply didn't work hard enough at learning the new system, which is why when he was under pressure, he reverted back to his old system. As Mack pointed out, Russell has had to learn new playbooks and systems several times in his career, actually 2 consecutive years, from NC State to Wisconsin then Wisconsin to the Seahawks, so it's not that he isn't smart enough. IMO he forgot what it was that got him to where he is. He's gotten sloppy.

I don't buy the 'bell got rung too many times' theory. I'd have to see some evidence.

There are some that claim he never has been able to process information, sort of like that cognitive test we talked about earlier in the year (S2?). Over in the other forum that I frequent, there's several posters that swear Russell has a hard time reading defenses and have quoted several credible sources. I didn't want to bring it up in here as I didn't want to antagonize the good folks in here that are still RW's torch carriers, but they seem to have legitimate criticisms. They are extremely skeptical that Russell will be able to flip a switch and turn it around.

But that doesn't explain his not knowing or forgetting the audible calls, which is simply a matter or repetition. It's a symptom of not getting enough practice or not working hard enough. If he's not putting in the work required to repeat the audibles in his sleep, then it's a foregone conclusion that he hasn't thoroughly studied the playbook, either.

I, too, think that Payton has a good chance of getting Russell turned around. But it all depends on Russell's attitude. Like a substance abuse addiction, the first step to recovery is recognition that you have a problem. Last year's belly flop should have been a wakeup call for him, a cold slap in the face. As I've said like a broken record, it's going to be an interesting drama to watch unfold.

[c_hawkbob]

So much of this conversation is completely overwrought.

First, the whole BMI thing is comical; Russ hasn't been "obese" a day in his life, and the height/weight chart is only a guideline anyway. People are not all constructed the same, there are 5'10 guys out there with long legs (36"+ inseam) and short torsos that make up the low end and then guys like me built like Yogi Bear ay 6'1 with a 29" inseam. Even when I got out of boot camp and had a six pack of abs I was more than 30lbs over the max chart value. Even had the Doc put a chit in my service jacket keeping me out of 'fatboys' unless i was 38 lbs over the chart weight.

Second, You read that someone, or a few someone's don't like Russ and you assume that applies to the whole team! Many in here have been on a football team at some level, did you like all your teammates? Did you have all their phone numbers? Did they all have yours? Russ quite frankly wouldn't have been in my circle on the team beyond the relationship between QB and lineman, he'd be in what my circle would have called "the God Squad", so I probably wouldn't have his number either but so what? It means absolutely nothing. He's got his circle of friend here and in Denver, and if the following is any indication the relationships extend beyond being teammates: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/07/13/seaha ... DoK5hmc_b8

Russ bears plenty of blame (as well as credit as applicable) for what happened both here and in Denver, but no more so than any QB on any team.

[RiverDog]

So much of this conversation is completely overwrought.

First, the whole BMI thing is comical; Russ hasn't been "obese" a day in his life, and the height/weight chart is only a guideline anyway. People are not all constructed the same, there are 5'10 guys out there with long legs (36"+ inseam) and short torsos that make up the low end and then guys like me built like Yogi Bear ay 6'1 with a 29" inseam. Even when I got out of boot camp and had a six pack of abs I was more than 30lbs over the max chart value. Even had the Doc put a chit in my service jacket keeping me out of 'fatboys' unless i was 38 lbs over the chart weight.

Second, You read that someone, or a few someone's don't like Russ and you assume that applies to the whole team! Many in here have been on a football team at some level, did you like all your teammates? Did you have all their phone numbers? Did they all have yours? Russ quite frankly wouldn't have been in my circle on the team beyond the relationship between QB and lineman, he'd be in what my circle would have called "the God Squad", so I probably wouldn't have his number either but so what? It means absolutely nothing. He's got his circle of friend here and in Denver, and if the following is any indication the relationships extend beyond being teammates: https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/07/13/seaha ... DoK5hmc_b8

Russ bears plenty of blame (as well as credit as applicable) for what happened both here and in Denver, but no more so than any QB on any team.

First, the "whole BMI thing" was simply a point of reference for a 'normal' human being, and I specifically acknowledged that it didn't apply to professional athletes. I never said that Russell was 'obese.' The point I was trying to make is that he's carrying too much weight, and 35-40 pounds over the weight of a normal adult is a lot to rationalize, athlete or not.

Secondly, no one, and certainly not me, ever said that 'a few someone's" applied to the entire team. Of course, Russell has a circle of friends, both here and in Denver. The biggest A-holes in the world have circles of friends.

Your question about teammates' phone numbers is extremely difficult for baby boomers like us to answer, especially since we never had half the teammates that 21st century professional football players have. But in an attempt to answer it, unless I'm expecting a call, I very seldom take direct phone calls from anyone or any business as I don't have my phone on my person unless I'm away from home, and even then, it's hit or miss if you'd catch me. 90% of the time, it sits on my end table. But I most certainly would not restrict text messaging, my preferred method of contact, nor would I be making someone I played with for years go through a manager just to make contact with me.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Responsibility of the QB came from what I perceive as not attributing enough accountability to Wilson. That's from himself and from some fans. And this isn't a lapse in play in a game here and there; this is legitimate downward trend in his career over the last few years. He's being paid like a top QB a la Manning, Brees, Brady, Rogers, etc..; those guys didn't see near the drop off as Wilson.

The other issue for me is he's a very different person when it comes to his approach to the game. Already noted the difference in his college transition and transition to the pros. Russell doesn't seem to be bringing the same level of "it" as his early years.

[NorthHawk]

That happens to a lot of players when they make big life changes.
Some find religion and don't compete like they did prior and other like Wilson who now has a family and a brand to try to grow, he's being pulled in a lot of directions.
It would be difficult for anyone to be 100% all in being a father; 100% all in on being a husband; 100% all in with his charities, and 100% all in on building or maintaining his brand. Not to mention getting his helicopter pilots license and other things in his life, and still be 100% in on football.

I'm sure all of the above has affected his focus on football. And some of it should with his family matters, but he's still working his butt off at practice and off the field. At least as much as he can.
But I still think last year was an anomaly compounded by Offensive dysfunction and lack of structure in Denver.

[RiverDog]

That happens to a lot of players when they make big life changes.
Some find religion and don't compete like they did prior and other like Wilson who now has a family and a brand to try to grow, he's being pulled in a lot of directions.
It would be difficult for anyone to be 100% all in being a father; 100% all in on being a husband; 100% all in with his charities, and 100% all in on building or maintaining his brand. Not to mention getting his helicopter pilots license and other things in his life, and still be 100% in on football.

Obviously, it's completely speculative with very little if any evidence, but a lot of people claim that it was when Russell married his current wife that his attitude/career began to change. I don't necessarily believe or disbelieve that theory, but it would explain a lot of things.

I'm sure all of the above has affected his focus on football. And some of it should with his family matters, but he's still working his butt off at practice and off the field. At least as much as he can.
But I still think last year was an anomaly compounded by Offensive dysfunction and lack of structure in Denver.

We don't know that Russell is 'working his butt off in practices. Coaches and teammates are going to say that he is whether or not it's true. As we discussed earlier, it's pretty obvious that Russell didn't put in the required amount of work necessary to master the offense, such as not playing during the preseason.

I do agree that a large part of Russell's difficulties last season can be attributed to a completely dysfunctional offense, part of which he is to blame for. But I'm not prepared to call it an anomaly. His last 1.5 seasons with us were less than stellar. In his past two years, his record as a starter is 10-19. That's not an anomaly, it's a trend.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think Russ fully understood the playbook. After all, he was working with Hackett in building it. How could he not know it?
But the rest of the Offense might not have known who was in charge. Was it Russ, was it the OC, was it Hackett? It's a recipe for a bad result and if Russ has lost some of his magic, it adds to the problems.
But nobody has ever said he didn't work hard or didn't want to win.

The more I read on Hackett it may be Hackett isn't that good. Only QB to make Hackett look good is Aaron Rodgers and he makes any OC look good. Hackett may just suck as an OC and Russ following his plan doomed him from the start.

Russ is good, but he isn't Aaron Rodgers. It could be Hackett was a terrible offensive play caller who set up his QBs for failure. Who knows.

Sean Payton is a good OC. So either Russ bounces back or he's cooked.

[Aseahawkfan]

I do agree that a large part of Russell's difficulties last season can be attributed to a completely dysfunctional offense, part of which he is to blame for. But I'm not prepared to call it an anomaly. His last 1.5 seasons with us were less than stellar. In his past two years, his record as a starter is 10-19. That's not an anomaly, it's a trend.

Russ in articles in Denver spent additional time working with his receivers to build up timing and consistency. Nowhere do I hear anyone in Denver claiming Russ didn't work hard.

It may be Russ loss of his legs and height are going to ruin him. Who knows. We'll see this year.

Russ had one head coach for his first ten years. Carroll hasn't exactly been at the top of his game any more either. Russ fell off on offense. And Pete the defensive specialist head coach fell off a cliff on defense. So not like we can look at Pete or Russ and think of them as the same high performing guys at earlier. Now they've given each other a shot to do better. We'll see how that works out for each of them.

For us Seattle fans, we care more that Carroll gets his defensive issues behind and gets that side of the ball rebuilt. That's what is going to matter most to us.

[RiverDog]

I do agree that a large part of Russell's difficulties last season can be attributed to a completely dysfunctional offense, part of which he is to blame for. But I'm not prepared to call it an anomaly. His last 1.5 seasons with us were less than stellar. In his past two years, his record as a starter is 10-19. That's not an anomaly, it's a trend.

Russ in articles in Denver spent additional time working with his receivers to build up timing and consistency. Nowhere do I hear anyone in Denver claiming Russ didn't work hard.

I'm basing my opinion on the fact that he took the entire preseason off, didn't take a single snap, which is extremely unusual, if not unprecedented, for a quarterback with a new team. IMO that's not working hard.

It may be Russ loss of his legs and height are going to ruin him. Who knows. We'll see this year.

Russ had one head coach for his first ten years. Carroll hasn't exactly been at the top of his game any more either. Russ fell off on offense. And Pete the defensive specialist head coach fell off a cliff on defense. So not like we can look at Pete or Russ and think of them as the same high performing guys at earlier. Now they've given each other a shot to do better. We'll see how that works out for each of them.

For us Seattle fans, we care more that Carroll gets his defensive issues behind and gets that side of the ball rebuilt. That's what is going to matter most to us.

Agreed.

[RiverDog]

I think Russ fully understood the playbook. After all, he was working with Hackett in building it. How could he not know it?
But the rest of the Offense might not have known who was in charge. Was it Russ, was it the OC, was it Hackett? It's a recipe for a bad result and if Russ has lost some of his magic, it adds to the problems.
But nobody has ever said he didn't work hard or didn't want to win.

The more I read on Hackett it may be Hackett isn't that good. Only QB to make Hackett look good is Aaron Rodgers and he makes any OC look good. Hackett may just suck as an OC and Russ following his plan doomed him from the start.

Russ is good, but he isn't Aaron Rodgers. It could be Hackett was a terrible offensive play caller who set up his QBs for failure. Who knows.

Sean Payton is a good OC. So either Russ bounces back or he's cooked.

I think it's entirely possible that Hackett is a very, very good OC but a piss poor HC. A lot of us are under the impression that a great coordinator, especially a OC as that seems to be the trend nowadays...will make a great HC. IMO Hackett might have had a very good offensive concept but that it didn't fit the type of quarterback he had. I also don't think he had much of a backbone, that he was indecisive, disorganized, didn't have the personality traits necessary to be a head coach in the NFL.

IMO Payton is both a good OC and a good HC, the best possible coach the Broncos could have hired to 'fix' Russ. This is going to be the acid test for Russell. If he plays poorly this season, then it will be the third straight season under three different head coaches where he's under performed.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think it's entirely possible that Hackett is a very, very good OC but a piss poor HC. A lot of us are under the impression that a great coordinator, especially a OC as that seems to be the trend nowadays...will make a great HC. IMO Hackett might have had a very good offensive concept but that it didn't fit the type of quarterback he had. I also don't think he had much of a backbone, that he was indecisive, disorganized, didn't have the personality traits necessary to be a head coach in the NFL.

IMO Payton is both a good OC and a good HC, the best possible coach the Broncos could have hired to 'fix' Russ. This is going to be the acid test for Russell. If he plays poorly this season, then it will be the third straight season under three different head coaches where he's under performed.

I was doing some reading and they don't even think he's a good OC. Some are saying he rode Aaron Rodgers performance to a head coaching job. Prior to that he had no real clout as an OC. He was let go by the Jaguars.

I don't know. Don't follow Hackett enough.

At this point Hackett is back with Aaron Rodgers hoping the can work magic again and Russ is pretty much with the only coach Russ looks up to since Payton coached Brees.

Russ may have his issues, but sometimes it seems like his praying does work because I can't see another coach Russ would have been happier with.

[RiverDog]

I think it's entirely possible that Hackett is a very, very good OC but a piss poor HC. A lot of us are under the impression that a great coordinator, especially a OC as that seems to be the trend nowadays...will make a great HC. IMO Hackett might have had a very good offensive concept but that it didn't fit the type of quarterback he had. I also don't think he had much of a backbone, that he was indecisive, disorganized, didn't have the personality traits necessary to be a head coach in the NFL.

IMO Payton is both a good OC and a good HC, the best possible coach the Broncos could have hired to 'fix' Russ. This is going to be the acid test for Russell. If he plays poorly this season, then it will be the third straight season under three different head coaches where he's under performed.

I was doing some reading and they don't even think he's a good OC. Some are saying he rode Aaron Rodgers performance to a head coaching job. Prior to that he had no real clout as an OC. He was let go by the Jaguars.

I don't know. Don't follow Hackett enough.

At this point Hackett is back with Aaron Rodgers hoping the can work magic again and Russ is pretty much with the only coach Russ looks up to since Payton coached Brees.

Russ may have his issues, but sometimes it seems like his praying does work because I can't see another coach Russ would have been happier with.

I don't know much about Hackett, either, just that he was in way over his head in Denver.

As far as Russ being happy with Payton, I'm not so sure. One of the first things Payton did was take away Russell's special perks, and he couldn't have been too thrilled about that move. But with the possible exception of Hairball, I can't think of another coach that was on the market that could have been a better fit for Russell, as like you said, Payton coached Drew Brees, a player who himself is relatively the same height as Russ and the active QB that Russell admired most.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't know much about Hackett, either, just that he was in way over his head in Denver.

As far as Russ being happy with Payton, I'm not so sure. One of the first things Payton did was take away Russell's special perks, and he couldn't have been too thrilled about that move. But with the possible exception of Hairball, I can't think of another coach that was on the market that could have been a better fit for Russell, as like you said, Payton coached Drew Brees, a player who himself is relatively the same height as Russ and the active QB that Russell admired most.

Russ's favorite QB is Drew Brees. He's stated this many times. Now he has the head coach that made Drew Brees into a household name? You kidding me. This is a dream come true for Russ and the only head coach I could see Russ bending over backwards for since he left Carroll.

I'm 100% certain Russ is happy having Sean Payton as his head coach. I don't think there is another coach that he believes in more than Sean Payton.

For whatever reason, Russ seems to be have some great luck. He goes from Pete Carroll, one of the few coaches in the league open to letting an under-sized QB start as his QB and back him up unconditionally when he enters the league, to the head coach who coached his QB idol for the best part of his career.

Some guys are born under a lucky star or Russ is living proof prayer works.

[RiverDog]

I don't know much about Hackett, either, just that he was in way over his head in Denver.

As far as Russ being happy with Payton, I'm not so sure. One of the first things Payton did was take away Russell's special perks, and he couldn't have been too thrilled about that move. But with the possible exception of Hairball, I can't think of another coach that was on the market that could have been a better fit for Russell, as like you said, Payton coached Drew Brees, a player who himself is relatively the same height as Russ and the active QB that Russell admired most.

Russ's favorite QB is Drew Brees. He's stated this many times. Now he has the head coach that made Drew Brees into a household name? You kidding me. This is a dream come true for Russ and the only head coach I could see Russ bending over backwards for since he left Carroll.

I'm 100% certain Russ is happy having Sean Payton as his head coach. I don't think there is another coach that he believes in more than Sean Payton.

For whatever reason, Russ seems to be have some great luck. He goes from Pete Carroll, one of the few coaches in the league open to letting an under-sized QB start as his QB and back him up unconditionally when he enters the league, to the head coach who coached his QB idol for the best part of his career.

Some guys are born under a lucky star or Russ is living proof prayer works.

I agree with most of what you said except for two things. I don't think anyone can be 100% certain about what someone else is thinking or feeling. Hell, Russ might not be 100% certain of his own emotions.

The second thing I disagree with is that I'm not so sure that Russell's prayers have worked out as well for him as you claim, unless he was praying for a 5-12 season. Maybe God wasn't happy with his ways and wanted to teach him a lesson.

It's interesting that you mention Russ's religious talk. His on-field prayer sessions following games, even after games in which they lost, have rubbed some fans in Denver the wrong way. It reminds a lot of them too much of Tim Tebow, who was a polarizing figure to say the least.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree with most of what you said except for two things. I don't think anyone can be 100% certain about what someone else is thinking or feeling. Hell, Russ might not be 100% certain of his own emotions.

The second thing I disagree with is that I'm not so sure that Russell's prayers have worked out as well for him as you claim, unless he was praying for a 5-12 season. Maybe God wasn't happy with his ways and wanted to teach him a lesson.

It's interesting that you mention Russ's religious talk. His on-field prayer sessions following games, even after games in which they lost, have rubbed some fans in Denver the wrong way. It reminds a lot of them too much of Tim Tebow, who was a polarizing figure to say the least.

What are you supposed to do? Get mad at a guy because he's openly religious? Really, that's ridiculous.

As far as the 5 and 12 season, that was the Seahawk fans praying. Haha. Our prayers worked.

[RiverDog]

I agree with most of what you said except for two things. I don't think anyone can be 100% certain about what someone else is thinking or feeling. Hell, Russ might not be 100% certain of his own emotions.

The second thing I disagree with is that I'm not so sure that Russell's prayers have worked out as well for him as you claim, unless he was praying for a 5-12 season. Maybe God wasn't happy with his ways and wanted to teach him a lesson.

It's interesting that you mention Russ's religious talk. His on-field prayer sessions following games, even after games in which they lost, have rubbed some fans in Denver the wrong way. It reminds a lot of them too much of Tim Tebow, who was a polarizing figure to say the least.

What are you supposed to do? Get mad at a guy because he's openly religious? Really, that's ridiculous.

Of course, it's ridiculous. But have you forgotten how controversial Tim Tebow, a former Denver Broncos quarterback, was due almost exclusively to his very open religious beliefs and how he espoused them? Heck, we had tons of debates in this very forum over the issue. Russell had better hope that his prayers work, for if they don't, they'll amount to even more fodder (as if they don't already have enough) for Broncos' fans to express their discontent with him just as they did with Tebow.

A good rule of thumb for people in the public eye, whether it be an NFL quarterback or a line supervisor like I was for some 40 years, is the same advice my dad told me over 50 years ago: There's three things that you shouldn't talk about on a first date: Sex, religion, and politics.

As far as the 5 and 12 season, that was the Seahawk fans praying. Haha. Our prayers worked.

Good point! We must have prayed harder than Russell.

[RiverDog]

Interesting article that is a summation of an hour long plus podcast with former Seahawks KJ Wright and Golden Tate:

Tate and Wright spent a large portion of the podcast talking about the rumor (of Tate having an affair with RW's wife) and how it affected him, and how it led to other stories from ex-teammates that didn't feel Russell had their back.

“I don’t want to go viral with this, I really don’t,” Wright said. “A few dudes came on here—off record, on record—and have said what they’ve said or how they felt about number 3. When you play this game, when you go through this journey, it’s all about the brothers. And when it’s all said and done, he’s (Russell) got a lot of making up to do.”

They (Wright and Tate) lamented on how some of their relationships went with Russ Wilson, and the hope for him to make up with them after past incidents.

“He’s got a lot of phone calls to make. A lot of ‘Hey bro, I should’ve done better with that.’ And that’s the god honest truth. I couldn’t hold that inside, but he’s got a lot of making up to do.”

https://clutchpoints.com/broncos-news-r ... g-up-to-do

[Aseahawkfan]

Interesting article that is a summation of an hour long plus podcast with former Seahawks KJ Wright and Golden Tate:

Tate and Wright spent a large portion of the podcast talking about the rumor (of Tate having an affair with RW's wife) and how it affected him, and how it led to other stories from ex-teammates that didn't feel Russell had their back.

“I don’t want to go viral with this, I really don’t,” Wright said. “A few dudes came on here—off record, on record—and have said what they’ve said or how they felt about number 3. When you play this game, when you go through this journey, it’s all about the brothers. And when it’s all said and done, he’s (Russell) got a lot of making up to do.”

They (Wright and Tate) lamented on how some of their relationships went with Russ Wilson, and the hope for him to make up with them after past incidents.

“He’s got a lot of phone calls to make. A lot of ‘Hey bro, I should’ve done better with that.’ And that’s the god honest truth. I couldn’t hold that inside, but he’s got a lot of making up to do.”

https://clutchpoints.com/broncos-news-r ... g-up-to-do

I don't see that summation in that article.

I do recall Tate being unhappy Russ did not respond to the gossip mill. Then again Russ has never responded to the gossip mill. He seems to ignore it and go on about his business like he always does. I don't know who he has to make up to. These dudes have Super Bowl rings and spent most of their time in the playoffs because they had a QB that could keep the offense on time and win when the game was on the line. Tate got a nice fat contract on the market because he was playing with a QB that could get him the ball.

I wouldn't waste my time with the gossip mill either. If you know something's a lie someone is making up, you ignore it. Lies aren't worth addressing and giving liars any of your time isn't worth it either.

[RiverDog]

Interesting article that is a summation of an hour long plus podcast with former Seahawks KJ Wright and Golden Tate:

Tate and Wright spent a large portion of the podcast talking about the rumor (of Tate having an affair with RW's wife) and how it affected him, and how it led to other stories from ex-teammates that didn't feel Russell had their back.

“I don’t want to go viral with this, I really don’t,” Wright said. “A few dudes came on here—off record, on record—and have said what they’ve said or how they felt about number 3. When you play this game, when you go through this journey, it’s all about the brothers. And when it’s all said and done, he’s (Russell) got a lot of making up to do.”

They (Wright and Tate) lamented on how some of their relationships went with Russ Wilson, and the hope for him to make up with them after past incidents.

“He’s got a lot of phone calls to make. A lot of ‘Hey bro, I should’ve done better with that.’ And that’s the god honest truth. I couldn’t hold that inside, but he’s got a lot of making up to do.”

https://clutchpoints.com/broncos-news-r ... g-up-to-do

I don't see that summation in that article.

I do recall Tate being unhappy Russ did not respond to the gossip mill. Then again Russ has never responded to the gossip mill. He seems to ignore it and go on about his business like he always does. I don't know who he has to make up to. These dudes have Super Bowl rings and spent most of their time in the playoffs because they had a QB that could keep the offense on time and win when the game was on the line. Tate got a nice fat contract on the market because he was playing with a QB that could get him the ball.

I wouldn't waste my time with the gossip mill either. If you know something's a lie someone is making up, you ignore it. Lies aren't worth addressing and giving liars any of your time isn't worth it either.

Here's the entire article, which is a summation of the one hour and 20 minute podcast. In my previous post, I had cut some out just to make it a little shorter:

Russell Wilson's former Seattle Seahawks teammate KJ Wright went off on the Denver Broncos QB on his podcast, “KJ All Day,” saying he wronged some of his ex-teammates and needs to do better.

KJ Wright interviewed another one of Wilson's former Seahawks teammates, Golden Tate, who was on the middle of a rumored saga after Seattle won the Super Bowl. There was an fake story that spread online about Tate having an affair with Wilson's ex-wife, and it drove a rift between him and the organization during a contract year.

“I was texting Russ like ‘Dude, clear my name, say something,’ and he kinda didn’t say much. I just wanted it to be over… It kind of made me angry because now, everyone’s just coming at me completely sideways and I’m not being defended,” Golden Tate explained.

Tate and Wright spent a large portion of the podcast talking about the rumor and how it affected him and how it led to other stories from ex-teammates that didn't feel Russell had their back.

“I don’t want to go viral with this. I really don’t,” Wright said. “A few dudes came on here—off record, on record—and have said what they’ve said or how they felt about Number 3. When you play this game, when you go through this journey, it’s all about the brothers. And when it’s all said and done, he’s got a lot of making up to do.”

They lamented on how some of their relationships went with Russ Wilson, and they hope for him to make up with them after past incidents.

“He’s got a lot of phone calls to make, a lot of ‘Hey bro, I should’ve done better with that.’ And that’s the god honest truth. I couldn’t hold that inside, but he’s got a lot of making up to do.”

[RiverDog]

I do recall Tate being unhappy Russ did not respond to the gossip mill. Then again Russ has never responded to the gossip mill. He seems to ignore it and go on about his business like he always does. I don't know who he has to make up to. These dudes have Super Bowl rings and spent most of their time in the playoffs because they had a QB that could keep the offense on time and win when the game was on the line. Tate got a nice fat contract on the market because he was playing with a QB that could get him the ball.

I wouldn't waste my time with the gossip mill either. If you know something's a lie someone is making up, you ignore it. Lies aren't worth addressing and giving liars any of your time isn't worth it either.

I don't blame Russell for not responding to Tate, either. He may not have had an affair with Russell's wife, but rumors don't often get started out of thin air, so something inappropriate must have happened for them to have taken root. It would have been a very uncomfortable situation to say the least.

But in listening to KJ, the issues between Russell and his former teammates goes a little deeper than the Tate rumors. I wasn't trying to prove anything, just that it was an interesting conversation. Here's a link to the podcast:

https://twitter.com/SONTSeattle/status/ ... _&ref_url=

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not big into the behind the scenes stuff for a team. I care what they do on the field. I figure the guys who like each other and have similar personalities hang out after the football career is done. The guys who don't, don't.

Offense and defense usually stick together. So QBs are usually closer to their O-line or receivers.

Our team had a lot of strong personalities during the prime time. I don't see Russ hanging out with a lot of the names on the team. They had to work together, they were friendly enough to get that done. Judging from what happened after the fact, Russ not exactly the type to hang with Sherm or Shawn or even Earl. Russ is a low key church going guy with a corny personality who wants to work all the time whether football or charity or business endeavors. Never heard of him drinking much or breaking into donut shops or going to strip clubs or ending up drunk in his car or getting a DV charge. So not sure why he owes anyone anything for wanting to walk a straight line and being Mr. Church Businessman doing well.

I'm sorry to say it is my experience that a lot of people resent people like Russ for being a good, decent person that likes to work and stays out of trouble and tows the company line because they consider it part of their job. They have all kinds of names for them. Ass kisser, brown noser, not black enough, robot, holier than thou, and the like. It is also my experience that guys who really live that type of lifestyle, not faking it, end up doing very well in the world.

The whole lot of it sounds a whole lot like sour grapes because Russ wanted something different with his life.

I'm the kind of guy that is fine with either type of person, while acknowledging that the guys like Russ are good for the world. They make it a better place by working hard to succeed and use their success to help others because that's what they like to do. They take the aspects of religion that are positive and try to live those teachings. Usually that is far more positive than the guys who are rolling around partying and doing stupid crap that leads them down a bad path they have to fix before they end up self-destructing.

[NorthHawk]

Lots of players don’t like some of their teammates but will have their back if that player can help them win.
It’s about sharing the same goal and if a player has shown he’s able to win or help the team win, he’ll be fully accepted by all of the others. They may never see each other outside of work, and may not like each other, but they will sacrifice for the common goal. It’s part of the team dynamic.

[RiverDog]

I'm sorry to say it is my experience that a lot of people resent people like Russ for being a good, decent person that likes to work and stays out of trouble and tows the company line because they consider it part of their job. They have all kinds of names for them. Ass kisser, brown noser, not black enough, robot, holier than thou, and the like. It is also my experience that guys who really live that type of lifestyle, not faking it, end up doing very well in the world.

I don't think that's true at all. Lots of people have some legitimate beefs with Russell. I, for one, do not resent him for being a good, decent person. I did not like the way he's behaved over the past few years, some of the public statements he's made, the insincerity he demonstrated just prior to the trade, his self-promotion, things that have absolutely nothing to do with his being a 'good, decent person.'

I frequent another forum, affectionately known as dot net, and the overwhelming sentiment in there about Russell is on negative side of the continuum with comments that would make Hawktawk look like a RW3 fanboy. Our little group, to our credit, is much more restrained and moderate in our assessments.

[NorthHawk]

Like the rest of us he’s an imperfect human being. People just have to accept that and move on.

[RiverDog]

Like the rest of us he’s an imperfect human being. People just have to accept that and move on.

I agree completely. The problem is that Russell won't let people move on as he's so damn active on social media and never shies away from the camera. He's an extrovert and is constantly doing stuff like posting videos of himself working out, he and his family on vacation, posing with his old lady in a dress that leaves very little to the imagination, things like that.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

https://denversports.com/2106357/russel ... ing-signs/

Just one person's observations, and, granted, this was a personal workout, but I hope for Russell Wilson's sake he's not putting all his eggs in this basket. Still has Jake Heaps as his QB Coach who runs him through these scrambling, extend-the-play drills. Heaps was unspectacular at best in college and the pros, so it's interesting that's who Wilson relies on. You'd think he'd find someone who can help him with going the progressions and getting the ball out quicker.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I agree completely. The problem is that Russell won't let people move on as he's so damn active on social media and never shies away from the camera. He's an extrovert and is constantly doing stuff like posting videos of himself working out, he and his family on vacation, posing with his old lady in a dress that leaves very little to the imagination, things like that.

Which is in stark contrast to the head down arse up early Russ who rarely put his life out there.

[RiverDog]

I agree completely. The problem is that Russell won't let people move on as he's so damn active on social media and never shies away from the camera. He's an extrovert and is constantly doing stuff like posting videos of himself working out, he and his family on vacation, posing with his old lady in a dress that leaves very little to the imagination, things like that.

Which is in stark contrast to the head down arse up early Russ who rarely put his life out there.

Yeah, you never saw much of him and his first wife. However, in defense of Russell, we have to recognize a few things. One is that social media was just in its infancy when Russell broke into the league in 2012, or at least it wasn't nearly as dominant then as it is today, and his first wife was likely pretty recluse, at least compared to his current squeeze.

But whatever the reason, Russell is a quite different person today than he was when he first broke in. I'm actually glad that he's not with us anymore.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't think that's true at all. Lots of people have some legitimate beefs with Russell. I, for one, do not resent him for being a good, decent person. I did not like the way he's behaved over the past few years, some of the public statements he's made, the insincerity he demonstrated just prior to the trade, his self-promotion, things that have absolutely nothing to do with his being a 'good, decent person.'

I frequent another forum, affectionately known as dot net, and the overwhelming sentiment in there about Russell is on negative side of the continuum with comments that would make Hawktawk look like a RW3 fanboy. Our little group, to our credit, is much more restrained and moderate in our assessments.

To be honest with you, RD, you do have a bias against religious people that publicly profess their beliefs. I've noticed it on more than a few occasions. You have a lot of problems with a lot of people like Pete and the way he does things because you think there is a certain way to do things and that to you seems the only way for some reason. You are very particular in what you think is the right way to behave. You take shots at people for their behavior even if it is not problematic. Something I've seen from you quite often.

But to me, Russ has done absolutely nothing any Seattle fans need to be concerned about. It is normal business. He'll be fine, Seattle fans will be fine. To me it's just pure hypocritical horsecrap as fans have no problem wanting to cut some guy like Jamal Adams who is hurt or any player that isn't performing for some reason regardless of how he acts individually. So this almost all comes down to performance with maybe some extreme cases of bad behavior changing opinions. Russ isn't engaged in any of the behaviors.

As far as an individual human being, Russ is a net positive for humanity.

As far as whether you want to hang out with him personally, well, that's a matter of personal preference. Russ likely not the kind of person I would hang with often, but I've met his type here and there. I don't have a problem with them.

Yeah. This group is normally pretty moderate. We're all older and less prone to excessive emotional in our assessments. I'm not a very emotional person in real life, which is why I generally assess things for what they truly are even if people don't want to see it for whatever reason. I acknowledge humans are primarily emotionally driven creatures who can manufacture emotional reactions without good cause, especially so for topics they are interested in. Producers of media content and marketers rely heavily on the nature of human beings for their profits and power.

But Russ don't concern me at this point. He's a done deal, thanks for the memories and draft capital. On to the next group of players to excited over.

I also like to toss some talk your way to keep the retired guy bus responding on one of his favorite forums. So here's a new piece to turn the mind some for a response if you feel so inclined.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://denversports.com/2106357/russell-wilsons-workout-in-boulder-offers-some-troubling-signs/

Just one person's observations, and, granted, this was a personal workout, but I hope for Russell Wilson's sake he's not putting all his eggs in this basket. Still has Jake Heaps as his QB Coach who runs him through these scrambling, extend-the-play drills. Heaps was unspectacular at best in college and the pros, so it's interesting that's who Wilson relies on. You'd think he'd find someone who can help him with going the progressions and getting the ball out quicker.

That guy sounds happy.

Well, we'll find out in about 6 to 7 weeks what Russ Denver will get this year with Sean Payton. Should be one of the stories of season one way or the other. Either another season of ragging on the cooked Russ or a resurrection.

[NorthHawk]

Wilson can have all the outside coaches he wants, but Payton comes from the Parcells tree and if Wilson doesn’t do things Payton’s way, he won’t play. It’s that simple.

[RiverDog]

To be honest with you, RD, you do have a bias against religious people that publicly profess their beliefs. I've noticed it on more than a few occasions. You have a lot of problems with a lot of people like Pete and the way he does things because you think there is a certain way to do things and that to you seems the only way for some reason. You are very particular in what you think is the right way to behave. You take shots at people for their behavior even if it is not problematic. Something I've seen from you quite often.

I certainly did have a religious bias when it came to Tim Tebow as he reminded me of those guys that would shove a pamphlet in your face and say "go ahead, it won't bite" and won't take a polite 'no thank you' for an answer. There for awhile, Tebow was being interviewed once a day, and at some point in nearly every interview, the conversation got turned into a discussion of his religion.

I don't have a problem at all with the way Russell goes about expressing his religious beliefs, and I'm not sure what it was I might have said about him that would give you that impression.

But to me, Russ has done absolutely nothing any Seattle fans need to be concerned about. It is normal business. He'll be fine, Seattle fans will be fine. To me it's just pure hypocritical horsecrap as fans have no problem wanting to cut some guy like Jamal Adams who is hurt or any player that isn't performing for some reason regardless of how he acts individually. So this almost all comes down to performance with maybe some extreme cases of bad behavior changing opinions. Russ isn't engaged in any of the behaviors.

Russell lied to his fans, told them that he wanted to be a Seahawk 'for another 10 years' when all the time he was negotiating behind the scenes to get out of Dodge. I understand why he said it as even a simple 'no comment' would have caused the rumor mills to go into overdrive, but nevertheless, it was still insincerity that a lot of people haven't forgiven him for. He also went on shows complaining about 'being hit too much', ignoring how long he held ontot he ball, was rumored to have lobbied for Pete/JS to get fired, took some unprovoked cheap shots by saying he came to Denver because he wouldn't have to carry the team by himself, the implication being that's one of the reasons he wanted out of Seattle, and so on.

There are other issues that fans, which includes me, have with him, but I won't go into them here. Suffice it to say that fans have a number of legitimate reasons to be upset with him.

As far as an individual human being, Russ is a net positive for humanity.

As far as whether you want to hang out with him personally, well, that's a matter of personal preference. Russ likely not the kind of person I would hang with often, but I've met his type here and there. I don't have a problem with them.

Yeah. This group is normally pretty moderate. We're all older and less prone to excessive emotional in our assessments. I'm not a very emotional person in real life, which is why I generally assess things for what they truly are even if people don't want to see it for whatever reason. I acknowledge humans are primarily emotionally driven creatures who can manufacture emotional reactions without good cause, especially so for topics they are interested in. Producers of media content and marketers rely heavily on the nature of human beings for their profits and power.

But Russ don't concern me at this point. He's a done deal, thanks for the memories and draft capital. On to the next group of players to excited over.

I also like to toss some talk your way to keep the retired guy bus responding on one of his favorite forums. So here's a new piece to turn the mind some for a response if you feel so inclined.

Hehe! Yeah, I need the work, especially when it's 103 degrees outside and I have to be indoors. And BTW, this isn't one of my favorite forums, it's my favorite, period.

[NorthHawk]

Russell lied to his fans, told them that he wanted to be a Seahawk 'for another 10 years' when all the time he was negotiating behind the scenes to get out of Dodge.

Did he really lie?
He may have wanted to stay but without Pete as HC. And he lost that showdown.