GOAT retires again

[trents]

https://www.newsmax.com/us/tom-brady-nf ... d/1106797/

[RiverDog]

Let's hope it's the last that we hear of the arrogant SOB.

[Hawktawk]

Let's hope it's the last that we hear of the arrogant SOB.

See ya ! It also opens up 2 more teams for the Geno bidding war . Tampa and wherever Brady was going .

But please stay away . Who knows what might have become of our season had they not coddled him for his Munich coronation .

[c_hawkbob]

Let's hope it's the last that we hear of the arrogant SOB.

He doesn't bother me near as much as Rogers does.

[RiverDog]

Let's hope it's the last that we hear of the arrogant SOB.

He doesn't bother me near as much as Rogers does.

I agree. Rodgers didn't bother me all that much up until the last few years with covid thing. But it still doesn't make Brady's arrogance any more palatable.

[Old but Slow]

Maybe quarterbacks don't age well. Then they mellow out after retirement and become TV personalities.

[RiverDog]

Maybe quarterbacks don't age well. Then they mellow out after retirement and become TV personalities.

Yeah, could be. It's odd how some positions attract the jerks and divas, like wide receivers, or that the position transforms them into such. You don't see offensive linemen acting like jerks and divas.

[Hawktawk]

At least Brady has something to be arrogant about . Rodgers can’t carry his hardware in a dump truck . Rodgers bothers me a lot more . Where’s the beef dude ?

[RiverDog]

At least Brady has something to be arrogant about . Rodgers can’t carry his hardware in a dump truck . Rodgers bothers me a lot more . Where’s the beef dude ?

Rodgers can't carry his hardware to a dump truck? I understand that Brady is in a league by himself, but Rodgers' achievements (4 league MVP's, 1 SB MVP, 10 Pro Bowls) aren't exactly chopped liver, that is, unless you want to say that Pete Carroll can't carry his hardware to the dump truck, either.

I had two big issues with Brady that causes me to believe that he's an arrogant SOB: Deflategate and his refusal to shake hands with Nick Foles following SB 52.

[Aseahawkfan]

We'll see if he stays retired or gets talked into returning.

[RiverDog]

We'll see if he stays retired or gets talked into returning.

Brady would be a laughingstock if we were to un-retire again. I can imagine some SNL skits depicting him.

[obiken]

Let's hope it's the last that we hear of the arrogant SOB.

Sometimes our own misconceptions become our reality, sorry I never agreed with you on him River. Was he St. Russ? No, but we now realize he was phonier than a 3 dollar bill, at least to varying degrees. IF you listen to An Eric Mangini, or former teammates, they will all say he was tough, helpful, and supportive, He made everyone around him better. Was he a lot like Jordan yes, but I would say Jordan was more arrogant than Tom. Not even close to the same level of arrogance as Loud Mouth Richard Sherman. He took pay cuts to win, that says it all. Who did I fear more as a Hawks fan, Elway or Brady, Elway by far. Never the less, all he wanted when he left NE was a decent target at WR, and some love by Bill, he never got either. Amazing when Cam Newton came in, Bill was gushing all over him. Besides hes not going anywhere, he's getting paid a boat load to do Fox games and we will get more incite than we have ever gotten from any other talking head.

[obiken]

I had two big issues with Brady that causes me to believe that he's an arrogant SOB: Deflategate and his refusal to shake hands with Nick Foles following SB 52.

Okay, here's my take on these two. 1. Brady didnt need marked cards to beat anyone, I have serious doubts if its true or not. Moreover, lets say for arguments sake it was, I think he would have confessed, but he knew that the Commish is such Duchebag, that he would have suspended him from the SB, and to Tom SB's were everything. 2. I think it was a really tough loss in the SB and there are games that you lose you just want to be left alone to swear at the wall! SB 50 was that way for me. He apologized to Nick later and Foles understood.

[RiverDog]

I had two big issues with Brady that causes me to believe that he's an arrogant SOB: Deflategate and his refusal to shake hands with Nick Foles following SB 52.

Okay, here's my take on these two. 1. Brady didnt need marked cards to beat anyone, I have serious doubts if its true or not. Moreover, lets say for arguments sake it was, I think he would have confessed, but he knew that the Commish is such Duchebag, that he would have suspended him from the SB, and to Tom SB's were everything. 2. I think it was a really tough loss in the SB and there are games that you lose you just want to be left alone to swear at the wall! SB 50 was that way for me. He apologized to Nick later and Foles understood.

The issue in Deflategate, for me, wasn't that Brady received a competitive advantage. It's that he stone walled it, refused to cooperate, busted his cell phone so viewing his text messages with the equipment manager would be impossible. I have no doubt that if I behaved in a similar manner and refused to disclose my conversations with a company employee on company time that I wouldn't have been able to get out of the building fast enough to keep the door from slapping me in the ass. They'd fire me without giving it a 2nd thought.

Your excuse for Brady's refusal to shake hands with Foles following the SB is complete BS. Russell Wilson suffered a much tougher loss, throwing an interception at the 2 yard line in the last minute of the game, than Brady ever did in any game he'd ever played, yet Russell went up and shook his hand. Brady, of all people, knew the drill and what was expected out of the winning and losing quarterbacks immediately following the game. He acted like a stuck up jerk.

[c_hawkbob]

First, Brady did receive a competitive advantage, however slight it may have been it obviously mattered to him. Second, I agree with Riv that it paled in comparison to his actions to obfuscate the investigation. Third, I don't hold Brady in near the regard that you seem to OBI, I do recognize him as the probable goat, at least of his era, but I say so with no reverence ... more of a begrudging acknowledgement.

[RiverDog]

First, Brady did receive a competitive advantage, however slight it may have been it obviously mattered to him. Second, I agree with Riv that it paled in comparison to his actions to obfuscate the investigation. Third, I don't hold Brady in near the regard that you seem to OBI, I do recognize him as the probable goat, at least of his era, but I say so with no reverence ... more of a begrudging acknowledgement.

I didn't mean to suggest that I felt that Brady didn't gain a competitive advantage from deflating footballs. Obviously, he did, as he had an expressed preference for them. What I meant to say that the competition aspect wasn't the major issue with me. As far as I was concerned, it was a trivial matter that he could have cleared up in an hour had he cooperated.

[NorthHawk]

I think Rodgers was Brady's equal on the football field and maybe better in a number of ways.
But he didn't have the advantages that Brady had in NE and a lot of the breaks didn't fall into his favor in the same quantity.
Best ever? That can't be stated because of different circumstances - best of his era? Possibly but it's up for debate.

[RiverDog]

I think Rodgers was Brady's equal on the football field and maybe better in a number of ways.
But he didn't have the advantages that Brady had in NE and a lot of the breaks didn't fall into his favor in the same quantity.
Best ever? That can't be stated because of different circumstances - best of his era? Possibly but it's up for debate.

If a person is results orientated as I am, there is no debate whatsoever about Brady being the GOAT of his era. No one else has achieved the ultimate goal in the game anywhere near the way he has. My only problem is with extending GOAT status to encompass multiple eras.

That's not to take anything away from what the Weird Beard has accomplished. Take Brady out of the equation and he's the next in line. But there's a huge gulf between him and Brady.

[NorthHawk]

That would mean that Vince Wilfork is the best DT ever and guys like McGinest the best OLB.
It's a team game and although the QB is the most important part, he's the beneficiary of all of the other players skills and dedication.
I said this before, if Brady was drafted by Cleveland, would he even be in the discussion or would he be anything more than just a trivia question? What if he was like Alex Smith with 7 different Offensive systems in 8 years?
Archie Manning was able to overcome having a bad team around him as was Cortez Kennedy during their playing careers. Might those two be the best ever at their respective positions considering the lack of supporting cast?

With football being the ultimate team game, can we really say that one player at any position is the best ever because the team got to a bunch of championships?

[RiverDog]

That would mean that Vince Wilfork is the best DT ever and guys like McGinest the best OLB.
It's a team game and although the QB is the most important part, he's the beneficiary of all of the other players skills and dedication.
I said this before, if Brady was drafted by Cleveland, would he even be in the discussion or would he be anything more than just a trivia question? What if he was like Alex Smith with 7 different Offensive systems in 8 years?
Archie Manning was able to overcome having a bad team around him as was Cortez Kennedy during their playing careers. Might those two be the best ever at their respective positions considering the lack of supporting cast?

With football being the ultimate team game, can we really say that one player at any position is the best ever because the team got to a bunch of championships?

More so than any other position, quarterbacks are defined by the team's success. That's why Joe Montana is seen as the better quarterback over Dan Marino and Dan Fouts even though both have a significant statistical edge over Montana.

[NorthHawk]

I don't necessarily see them that way, but many do.
But like all QBs who are anointed great, they have to be in the right place at the right time and in the right Offense for them to maximize their skills.
It's part of the equation when evaluating who is the best ever, and it can't be done in my opinion because of the varying factors.

[RiverDog]

I don't necessarily see them that way, but many do.
But like all QBs who are anointed great, they have to be in the right place at the right time and in the right Offense for them to maximize their skills.
It's part of the equation when evaluating who is the best ever, and it can't be done in my opinion because of the varying factors.

You're playing the "what if" game, the "if your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle" that you can play with any sport. What if Ted Williams hadn't had 5 years taken out of the prime of his career due to military service? Would he have been the first to break Babe Ruth's record?

I'm not denying that other quarterbacks like the Weird Beard had better skills than Brady, or that there wasn't a large degree of pure luck associated with his success. Hell, if Drew Bledsoe hadn't gotten hurt, we may not have ever heard of Tom Brady. But in all things, success is a combination of ability and luck, and Brady had both.

[Aseahawkfan]

That would mean that Vince Wilfork is the best DT ever and guys like McGinest the best OLB.
It's a team game and although the QB is the most important part, he's the beneficiary of all of the other players skills and dedication.
I said this before, if Brady was drafted by Cleveland, would he even be in the discussion or would he be anything more than just a trivia question? What if he was like Alex Smith with 7 different Offensive systems in 8 years?
Archie Manning was able to overcome having a bad team around him as was Cortez Kennedy during their playing careers. Might those two be the best ever at their respective positions considering the lack of supporting cast?

With football being the ultimate team game, can we really say that one player at any position is the best ever because the team got to a bunch of championships?

No. Wilfork wasn't there for all the Super Bowls. That's what you don't seem to acknowledge. Brady did this across two decades, with many different teams of different quality. When Wilfork left, Brady found ways to win. When his receivers changed, he found ways to win. When his O-line changed, he found ways to win. When his defense wasn't great, he found ways to win. Then when we all thought he couldn't do it without Belichick, he went to Tampa Bay and won another against Patrick Mahomes.

You can try to spin it any way you want as I know you don't like the guy, but Brady is the best to ever do it at QB because Super Bowls is the goal. If he did all this with the same team, same players, same situation every year, then maybe your argument would hold water. But he didn't. He did it across 23 years, went to the Super Bowl an unprecedented ten times. The New England teams he was on were very different from when he started. So claiming Wilfork was the best when he was only there for what eleven years? Not even close to a good comparison.

I get it. Brady is not a likeable guy. I don't much care for his personality myself. I'm more in the c-bob camp where I call him the G.O.A.T. because what he did is undeniable. No one has ever done it. It's so far ahead of what anyone else has ever done in the Super Bowl Era that I doubt anyone will do it again with the way the draft is set up and the salary cap. The only guys close to Brady are from the pre-salary cap era on Super Teams like Pittsburgh with the Steel Curtain or Joe Montana with that insanely stacked Frisco team.

No matter how you try to spin it, Brady never played on a team like the dynasty era Steelers, Cowboys, or 49ers. He never had that kind of team support. It's why no other QB has come close to doing what Brady has done in his era because you can't build super teams like that any more. Yet somehow this no name 6th round pick ended up as the leader and playing the most important position in sports for a team that went to the Super Bowl 9 times and winning 6, then went to Tampa Bay and proved he could win it somewhere else.

So what if luck played a part. Luck plays a part in nearly every championship win whether lucky health or lucky plays or call or what not. I don't care how lucky someone is, they don't win 7 Super Bowls and go to 10 based on luck. That's just horsecrap.

If a Seattle QB did that here, we would love that dude. No one in Seattle can even imagine some player that dominant. Like I said I before, I'm glad Brady and New England didn't play in the NFC, especially the NFC West. That would have been one depressing 20 years of football to watch your team every year losing to New England. I don't want another guy or team like that around. Buffalo, Miami, and the New York Jets hate and fear Brady more than obiken ever hated Elway. Elway never kept us from doing anything for twenty years. Brady kept his division rivals under his boot for twenty years. He made Peyton Manning go home more years than not. I hope we never see another player like Brady with a coach good enough to put him in position to win.

Bill B isn't doing jack squat in New England since Brady left. He wasn't doing much before Brady either. Not even sure he ever will as Brady seemed to be the perfect QB to work with Bill B willing to do all Bill B needed him to do including take less money.

[NorthHawk]

No spin. Facts.
Nobody had the same opportunity that Brady had.
Bledsoe got injured giving him a chance to play.
He even said that if he had lost that Tuck rule game he probably wouldn’t have started the next season.
He wasn’t drafted by a dysfunctional team.
He was drafted into a team on the rise, not floundering on the bottom.
He was in a division that had only 3 or 4 years out of 18 in NE where another team had a winning record.
He had a long string of Defenses that were top 5 or top 10.
He never had a bad team around him until possibly this past year.
His Offense didn’t change radically as new OCs expanded on what he did and kept the basic scheme.
He took his Offense to TB.
and there’s more I’m sure.
Name another QB who had that combination of positives.
Rodgers didn’t. Brees didn’t, and I doubt any other QB had that same opportunity or fortune.

To say he’s the goat because he’s won all those SBs is simply lazy and assumptive promoted by a sound bite media.
Lots of other QBs could throw as well and many probably better. There have probably been leaders as good or better.
Many had better abilities to make yards with their legs. And I think there were probably some who had all those
qualities but because of circumstances, never had the chance to show it.

So to say that none of the others who preceded him are as good as Brady or better isn’t provable and to say
otherwise is not looking even remotely deeply into the comparative facts of opportunity.

Being the goat means you transcended the game in some manner, like Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, or
Babe Ruth. Brady never did and outside of a few years he wasn’t even considered the best QB.

All this to say he wasn’t a bad QB. He was far beyond a very good QB, but you can’t anoint him as the single best
ever without considering the relative challenges others who would be compared had to endure and achieved that he didn’t.
It’s just too high of a bar to name one player the best over about a century because his teams won a bunch of SBs.

[Aseahawkfan]

This is a stupid level of accomplishment. Elway don't hold a candle to Brady. Only reason Obiken fears Elway more than Brady because he didn't have to play against Brady for the last two decades.

7× Super Bowl champion (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX, LI, LIII, LV)
5× Super Bowl MVP (XXXVI, XXXVIII, XLIX, LI, LV)
3× NFL Most Valuable Player (2007, 2010, 2017)
2× NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2007, 2010)
NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2009)
3× First-team All-Pro (2007, 2010, 2017)
3× Second-team All-Pro (2005, 2016, 2021)
15× Pro Bowl (2001, 2004, 2005, 2007, 2009–2018, 2021)
5× NFL passing touchdowns leader (2002, 2007, 2010, 2015, 2021)
4× NFL passing yards leader (2005, 2007, 2017, 2021)
2× NFL passer rating leader (2007, 2010)
NFL completion percentage leader (2007)


NFL records
Most career quarterback wins: 251
Most career passing attempts: 12,050
Most career passing completions: 7,753
Most career passing touchdowns: 649
Most career passing yards: 89,214
Most pass completions in a season: 490 (2022)
Most pass attempts in a season: 733 (2022)
Longest touchdown pass: 99 yards (tied)

Brady has led his team to 19 division titles in 23 years. Only six NFL teams have more division titles than Tom Brady. Yeah, that's right, teams across the entirety of their existence. Not single players, but the entire franchise. We're not one of those teams.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/lists/6-nfl-teams-with-more-divisional-titles-that-tom-brady

What Brady has done is ridiculous. So many on here talk about "results' and wanting to consistently win and all this talk of being great and they don't want to admit that Brady set the standard for consistently great winning play for a QB? Give me a break. Brady is what every team dreams their QB can do. That guy that you know every single year if you build a decent team around him is going to win and take the team to the Super Bowl as often as possible and win.

The guy even holds the record for the two greatest comebacks in in Super Bowl history against us and Atlanta.

Brady is the best QB to ever do what you want a QB to do. That's why he's the G.O.A.T. QB. Arguing otherwise is just ridiculous. The guy did what you want a QB to do better than anyone else at the position with more consistency across two decades on two different teams. You could even argue the Patriots were different teams as well because of the player turnover during his 18 or so years as a Patriot.

What he did was stupid and unlikely to ever be matched.

[Aseahawkfan]

No spin. Facts.
Nobody had the same opportunity that Brady had.
Bledsoe got injured giving him a chance to play.
He even said that if he had lost that Tuck rule game he probably wouldn’t have started the next season.
He wasn’t drafted by a dysfunctional team.
He was drafted into a team on the rise, not floundering on the bottom.
He was in a division that had only 3 or 4 years out of 18 in NE where another team had a winning record.
He had a long string of Defenses that were top 5 or top 10.
He never had a bad team around him until possibly this past year.
His Offense didn’t change radically as new OCs expanded on what he did and kept the basic scheme.
He took his Offense to TB.
and there’s more I’m sure.
Name another QB who had that combination of positives.
Rodgers didn’t. Brees didn’t, and I doubt any other QB had that same opportunity or fortune.

To say he’s the goat because he’s won all those SBs is simply lazy and assumptive promoted by a sound bite media.
Lots of other QBs could throw as well and many probably better. There have probably been leaders as good or better.
Many had better abilities to make yards with their legs. And I think there were probably some who had all those
qualities but because of circumstances, never had the chance to show it.

So to say that none of the others who preceded him are as good as Brady or better isn’t provable and to say
otherwise is not looking even remotely deeply into the comparative facts of opportunity.

Being the goat means you transcended the game in some manner, like Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, or
Babe Ruth. Brady never did and outside of a few years he wasn’t even considered the best QB.

All this to say he wasn’t a bad QB. He was far beyond a very good QB, but you can’t anoint him as the single best
ever without considering the relative challenges others who would be compared had to endure and achieved that he didn’t.
It’s just too high of a bar to name one player the best over about a century because his teams won a bunch of SBs.

Name another QB with all of that? What are you talking about? Joe Montana? Terry Bradshaw? Staubach? Matt Hasselbeck?

Tell me how many times Brady had the same receivers? More than Rodgers or Brees? Nope.

You are not posting facts at all. It's so easy to crush your arguments with real facts. Brady had as much team turnover as Rodgers or Brees or Peyton. In fact Peyton had more stability at receiver than Brady ever had and still couldn't win the Super Bowl more often.

Teams like the Pittsburgh Steelers, Dallas Cowboys, and San Francisco 49ers had the same coaches and no salary cap, yet could not equal what Brady did. They literally built amazing defenses and still could not match what Brady did.

Many other teams drafted QBs into good situations with teams on the rise, yet they did not win for 23 years. Didn't come close to as many Super Bowls or Super Bowl wins.

Why don't you explain why Bill B hasn't won without Brady?

Sorry Northhawk, you're not posting facts, you're posting weak arguments without looking at the heavy turnover Brady experienced across 23 years. Who cares if Brady brought "his offense to Tampa Bay", he still led that offense and won a Super Bowl in Tampa Bay.

You keep trying to make it seem like what he did isn't unprecedented across eras and like he had the same team the entire time, when he didn't. He's just that good, that consistently good that he finds a way to win that often.

It isn't just the Super Bowls. You act like Brady just has Super Bowls. You're ignoring all the rest. The MVPs. The changing teams. The ten Conference Championships. The 19 division titles. It's you that are ignoring everything that makes Brady the G.O.A.T.

You keep trying to make Brady seem like Jim McMahon or Phil Simms where he put up pedestrian numbers on great teams and had no real hand in winning. That's just utter crap. The guy won more consistently than any other QB. He led comebacks in multiple games including two of the greatest and deepest comebacks in Super Bowl history.

It's you ignoring facts to spin this anti-Brady narrative because you don't like him. No matter how you try to spin this, he's done it all across two, going into three decades, for 23 years better than any QB has done winning with different receivers, defenses, teams, and now coaches. You keep trying to play this game of trying to argue if Rodgers were in the same situations, he would've, could've, should've, when Rodgers has one Super Bowl. That's it. Give me a break. If Rodgers were even close to as good as Brady, he would have gotten there more often than he did. He isn't as clutch as Brady, which we've seen time and time again.

When the game is on the line, no one has done it better than Brady in the biggest games. We watched him do this to us some years back as soon as he saw a weakness.

Northawk, not acknowledging Brady as the G.O.A.T. QB given all he's done is just sour grapes. The facts are clear. No one has done the QB position better than Brady in the Super Bowl Era. Period.

[RiverDog]

I'm on ASF's side, sort of. Brady is the GOAT, from about 1990-2030.

Part of his success has to do with his willingness to take less money and sign team friendly contracts. He's never been a distraction like Kylar Murray was last season, Lamar Jackson is this season, and the Weird Beard every season.

[NorthHawk]

Oh, yah.
He dominated on Defense. He caused other teams turnovers.
He blocked for the RBs.
Yah, he did it all in the ultimate team sport.

You cannot say that over a century of football he’s the best.
He never dominated statistically over a long period of time during his career.
How many years was he the best QB? There were a lot of MVPs who were QBs during his time.
Why wasn’t he a continual MVP if he was the best by a mile?
The facts are he was overshadowed often by other QBs during his career. Is that your standard for best ever?
A player who more often than not had good but not great stats is your standard bearer?

The best ever sets the bar higher in individual categories.

You mentioned Staubach and Bradshaw. How can you compare them with such a different game than today?
Well, you can’t really. I mentioned Archie Manning. With a bad team around him he won MVP and was a
Pro Bowl player. How do you compare that and others more recently who accomplished a lot with little help?

It’s easy to say someone on a great team who also succeeds is the best, but it’s not always true. And we never really saw
Brady with a bad team around him. That has to be factored in. You can’t make any comparisons without seeing that.

[Aseahawkfan]

Oh, yah.
He dominated on Defense. He caused other teams turnovers.
He blocked for the RBs.
Yah, he did it all in the ultimate team sport.

You cannot say that over a century of football he’s the best.
He never dominated statistically over a long period of time during his career.
How many years was he the best QB? There were a lot of MVPs who were QBs during his time.
Why wasn’t he a continual MVP if he was the best by a mile?
The facts are he was overshadowed often by other QBs during his career. Is that your standard for best ever?
A player who more often than not had good but not great stats is your standard bearer?

The best ever sets the bar higher in individual categories.

You mentioned Staubach and Bradshaw. How can you compare them with such a different game than today?
Well, you can’t really. I mentioned Archie Manning. With a bad team around him he won MVP and was a
Pro Bowl player. How do you compare that and others more recently who accomplished a lot with little help?

It’s easy to say someone on a great team who also succeeds is the best, but it’s not always true. And we never really saw
Brady with a bad team around him. That has to be factored in. You can’t make any comparisons without seeing that.

You keep making these weak ass arguments. Plenty of QBs have had great teams around them and not even won more than one Super Bowl for years.

You keep acting like Brady had the best teams every year, year after year, and he didn't. The sole factor that was the same was Brady. You could have at least argued Bill B was the reason when he was on the Patriots, but Brady goes to Tampa and wins another Super Bowl and two more division titles. Brady goes to Tampa and adds another ring and another two division titles. It's all just because wherever Brady goes the teams just happen to be great, Brady has nothing to do with it.

Brady has more division titles than 25 other teams in their franchise history. He's been to more Super Bowls than any team in franchise history. He's won as many Super Bowls as any team in franchise history. But he's just been some lucky guy that hasn't factored much into winning because we all know QBs don't have much to do with the team winning Super Bowls and dominating their division.

Give it a rest. Plenty of other Qbs have had the same advantages as Brady whether it is some like Troy Aikman having a Dallas team stacked with Hall of Famers including all time greats like Emmit Smith of Larry Walker or Frisco with Montana, jerry Rice, and Krieg, or Peyton with Marvin Harrison and Randy the other great receiver. They couldn't do the same as Brady for as long as Brady.

You got no leg to stand on. Your arguments are not factual, they're half-assed and emotionally based. The only thing I can attribute them to is a personal dislike of Brady because they certainly don't stand up to the fact test or any objective analysis. Just you spinning whatever weak argument you can to keep saying "Brady is not the G.O.A.T' QB even though he's not only won more Super Bowls, division titles, Conference championships, Super Bowl MVPs, and set the standard for consistent winning play at QB, he also has all the regular season awards as well like League MVPs, among the top 5 in nearly every statistical category in the NFL, and done more amazing comeback wins in big gams than anyone we've seen play. You keep insisting that QBs like Rodgers or Brees or whoever could have done the same thing if in Brady's shoes, even though they can't even win more than one Super Bowl in their careers. It's not factual at all. It's not giving a player his due for personal reasons.

I'm going give the guy his due. Brady marks all the boxes for being the best. He is not Jim McMahon or Nick Foles with their one and done Super Bowls. Brady was the heart and soul of the New England franchise across two decades and then took his schtick to Tampa and made them a Super Bowl champ and dominant in their division. That isn't some lucked into rubbish like you're trying to spin.

[obiken]

not acknowledging Brady as the G.O.A.T. QB given all he's done is just sour grapes. The facts are clear. No one has done the QB position better than Brady in the Super Bowl Era. Period.

I agree ASF, I was not trying to say that Elway was better than Brady, (Michael Wilbon, of PTI does) I am saying as a single entity at QB, as whole Offensive weapon I would rather have John. There are things that John could do as a QB that was a lot scarier than Tom. Your right, we only played the Pats maybe 3 or 4 times in the Brady era. Moreover, you have to put Tom's success in the context of the NE Patriots. A lot of my Hawk friends hate Tom and hate the Pats, I dont. I neither love Tom or hate him. I think you can underestimate the Pats and overestimate them. Was Billy B the greatest coach of all time? Most people would say yes, I would say No. No one one can argue that he is at least in the top 5. What was Bill before Tom, just a good Defensive coach. What was he after Tom, borderline dysfunctional. It was as they say, a perfect storm, that will never happen again. THEY WERE THE MODEL OF THE SALARY CAP ERA. However they do not stack up to the great teams of all times except maybe once, and that team got beat by Eli. He landed in the perfect place. Only Troy Aikman was as accurate as Tom in my lifetime, and I am 67. Only Manning was as good at pre-snap reads as Tom. Teams win titles, Great players get MVP's and put up unreal numbers. Was he the greatest, no doubt ASHF, I got no problem saying that.

[Hawktawk]

Brady's the goat. Ridiculous argument

[mykc14]

Yeah there is no argument here. Brady is the GOAT. He didn't just "get lucky." He set his team up for success. He may not be the most physically talent player to play the position but he continually put championships ahead of his bank account.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree ASF, I was not trying to say that Elway was better than Brady, (Michael Wilbon, of PTI does) I am saying as a single entity at QB, as whole Offensive weapon I would rather have John. There are things that John could do as a QB that was a lot scarier than Tom. Your right, we only played the Pats maybe 3 or 4 times in the Brady era. Moreover, you have to put Tom's success in the context of the NE Patriots. A lot of my Hawk friends hate Tom and hate the Pats, I dont. I neither love Tom or hate him. I think you can underestimate the Pats and overestimate them. Was Billy B the greatest coach of all time? Most people would say yes, I would say No. No one one can argue that he is at least in the top 5. What was Bill before Tom, just a good Defensive coach. What was he after Tom, borderline dysfunctional. It was as they say, a perfect storm, that will never happen again. THEY WERE THE MODEL OF THE SALARY CAP ERA. However they do not stack up to the great teams of all times except maybe once, and that team got beat by Eli. He landed in the perfect place. Only Troy Aikman was as accurate as Tom in my lifetime, and I am 67. Only Manning was as good at pre-snap reads as Tom. Teams win titles, Great players get MVP's and put up unreal numbers. Was he the greatest, no doubt ASHF, I got no problem saying that.

I get it. Elway was as close to Brady as we had to face. Elway was a far better athlete than Brady. Stronger arm, more mobile, and tough as hell. I remember watching Elway punt the ball. Was it because he needed to punt? No. Elway wanted to show off that he could do it because he was Elway. I grew tired of dealing with him. I could only enjoy Elway's greatness after we were out of the AFC West. While we were in the AFC West, I couldn't stand that dude and facing him sucked. Elway is part of the reason why I take pleasure in robbing the Broncos. Now we have robbed them twice. It's like the karmic football gods that made us suffer playing against Elway all those years in the AFC West are finally letting us take revenge on the Broncos. That revenge is so sweet. I love these draft picks.

[Old but Slow]

Brady is the GOAT, based on his accomplishments. I do not think he is the best QB I have ever seen. Nobody played at as high a level for as long, but some with shorter, less titled careers may have had more talent. Unitas used to take defenses apart like a surgeon, Marino, Montana, Tittle, Staubach, Fouts, and others. Mirer, Leaf, (oops, sorry). Brady did not have a cannon arm and was not much of a runner, but he could win, and did. He also had a great ability to understand the game, what was happening, and what to do about it. It is a little like the Mannings. Peyton and Eli we know, but Archie was a better QB.

Personally, I think that Mahomes is a better QB than Brady. But, Brady is the GOAT.

[Aseahawkfan]

My criteria for a QB is winning by keeping the offense performing at a high level regardless of injuries, offensive line, changing players, level of defensive play, coming back in the fourth quarter, or what not. The QB finds a way to have more points at the end of the game leading the offense than the other team, so you win more often than not. A QB that does that the best will put his team in position to win the most Super Bowls, division titles, conference championships, and the like. Any fan of any fan base wants that from their QB.

Not MVPs. Not the most athletic QB award. Not the most potential at QB award. Not the Offensive MVP award. Not the more yards or TDs in a season. But the most wins the most often leading to the most division titles and the most Super Bowls. QB touches the ball every down on offense, controls the line, executes the plays, calls coverage, surveys the field to find receivers and avoid defensive traps, and the like on offense. They do all this with the intent of winning games and ultimately Super Bowls.

No one has done that better than Brady at QB in the Super Bowl Era.

May there never be another Brady to ruin a fan base's chances of a Super Bowl for as long as Brady. Good riddance to Brady.

Now we gotta deal with arrogant New England fans for the rest of our lives. I hope that franchise falls into a deep, dark pit of depression for the next two decades to repay their good fortune. Let someone else win some trophies. You don't get that kind of success without paying a price later like Jerry Jones and the Cowboys pay for firing Jimmy.

[Aseahawkfan]

Brady is the GOAT, based on his accomplishments. I do not think he is the best QB I have ever seen. Nobody played at as high a level for as long, but some with shorter, less titled careers may have had more talent. Unitas used to take defenses apart like a surgeon, Marino, Montana, Tittle, Staubach, Fouts, and others. Mirer, Leaf, (oops, sorry). Brady did not have a cannon arm and was not much of a runner, but he could win, and did. He also had a great ability to understand the game, what was happening, and what to do about it. It is a little like the Mannings. Peyton and Eli we know, but Archie was a better QB.

Personally, I think that Mahomes is a better QB than Brady. But, Brady is the GOAT.

I agree with this as well. I never was impressed watching Brady play like Mahomes, Elway, or Russell.

But somehow when the game is on the line and it's win or go home time, Brady figured out ways to win. Sometimes he got lucky or a call went his way, but he put himself in position for that to be enough.

Brady seemed like a dick. I never enjoyed his interviews. I liked seeing him lose even though it wasn't that often.

I still like Joe Montana better. He had a much cooler personality. You could root for Joe Montana when the 49ers weren't in the same division.

[RiverDog]

Brady is the GOAT, based on his accomplishments. I do not think he is the best QB I have ever seen. Nobody played at as high a level for as long, but some with shorter, less titled careers may have had more talent. Unitas used to take defenses apart like a surgeon, Marino, Montana, Tittle, Staubach, Fouts, and others. Mirer, Leaf, (oops, sorry). Brady did not have a cannon arm and was not much of a runner, but he could win, and did. He also had a great ability to understand the game, what was happening, and what to do about it. It is a little like the Mannings. Peyton and Eli we know, but Archie was a better QB.

Personally, I think that Mahomes is a better QB than Brady. But, Brady is the GOAT.

I agree with this as well. I never was impressed watching Brady play like Mahomes, Elway, or Russell.

But somehow when the game is on the line and it's win or go home time, Brady figured out ways to win. Sometimes he got lucky or a call went his way, but he put himself in position for that to be enough.

Brady seemed like a dick. I never enjoyed his interviews. I liked seeing him lose even though it wasn't that often.

I still like Joe Montana better. He had a much cooler personality. You could root for Joe Montana when the 49ers weren't in the same division.

The other thing about Brady is that he never insisted on being paid an ungodly amount of money, allowing his GM to surround him with better players and allowed him to win more than other higher paid quarterbacks. What is it that mykc pointed out about QB's that are paid over a certain percentage of the cap not winning SB's?

That's one of the things that irks me about today's professional athletes. It's more about them maximizing their paycheck than winning championships.

[Old but Slow]

I just read a report that an unknown quarterback named Dom Trady is interested in playing for the Niners.

[Aseahawkfan]

I just read a report that an unknown quarterback named Dom Trady is interested in playing for the Niners.

Dom Trady's face is wrapped in cloth bandages. He sounds like Tom Brady, but swears he is Dom Trady. He feels he can lead the 49ers to a championship because he loves football. He's been playing football in Europe for France for most of his career.

Only those who have watched The Office will maybe get this reference.

[obiken]

Brady is the GOAT, based on his accomplishments. I do not think he is the best QB I have ever seen. Nobody played at as high a level for as long, but some with shorter, less titled careers may have had more talent. Unitas used to take defenses apart like a surgeon, Marino, Montana, Tittle, Staubach, Fouts, and others. Mirer, Leaf, (oops, sorry). Brady did not have a cannon arm and was not much of a runner, but he could win, and did. He also had a great ability to understand the game, what was happening, and what to do about it. It is a little like the Mannings. Peyton and Eli we know, but Archie was a better QB.

Personally, I think that Mahomes is a better QB than Brady. But, Brady is the GOAT.

Well Unitas and them used to call their own plays, which took a few years to get down. Could Brady and Manning have done it sure but that was a whole different era.