Next up: the draft

[RiverDog]

We really don't know how much input Cable actually had. We do know that the players along the OL before Cable and after Cable haven't been great, so the pattern of not addressing the IoL or not making great picks stands alone in my mind.
It might be as simple as Cable having the same philosophy as Schneider/Carroll so they thought alike and ended up with sub par results.

You're right, we don't know how much input Cable had. But we can make some informed guesses. We know that Cable had Pete's ear or else he wouldn't have named him as his assistant HC over even his coordinators. Cable was the only coach on Pete's staff that had HC experience. And, he kept him around for a long time, for 6 years.

I'm not sure if I told you guys this, but I have a good friend that was invited to the Hawks rookie camp as a UDFA back in 2012 or 2013. He was an offensive tackle in college but was a little short, 6'3" and about 320 pounds, and was part of the first cuts. He didn't have a lot of good things to say about Cable, said that he worked him on the opposite side of the OL than he played in college, did the same thing to a guy from USC. That doesn't pertain to the point of our discussion here, I just thought I'd mention it.

[NorthHawk]

We could see what Cable was doing and I think it ruined Ifedi's career and maybe some others by not allowing them to develop at one position. It's a huge leap as it is, but to demand players learn 2 positions and do them well while learning how to be a Pro and fit in can be a lot to ask of a younger player.

But along the OL, the problems preceded Cable and continued after he left with a couple of different OL coaches and DCs, so it seems to me he wasn't the whole problem with developing a solid OL. It seems like the philosophy was not right or that they simply didn't value the OL as a group and IoL in particular.

[RiverDog]

We could see what Cable was doing and I think it ruined Ifedi's career and maybe some others by not allowing them to develop at one position. It's a huge leap as it is, but to demand players learn 2 positions and do them well while learning how to be a Pro and fit in can be a lot to ask of a younger player.

But along the OL, the problems preceded Cable and continued after he left with a couple of different OL coaches and DCs, so it seems to me he wasn't the whole problem with developing a solid OL. It seems like the philosophy was not right or that they simply didn't value the OL as a group and IoL in particular.

I agree with both of those points. We haven't had a decent OL since after XL when Hutch left and Tobeck retired. Even at the height of the LOB, we still had our problems that a young, fleet Russell and a rock'em sock 'em Beast were able to mitigate. I can remember quite a few games during that period of time where we got stuffed in critical short yardage situations.

[Hawktawk]

Seattle and beast got stuffed twice in short yardage in the first half vs the Pats in 49 . Might have factored into “ the call “

And the center was Unger . Unger got abused by pot roast in 48 as well . I’ll completely agree the last and really only great line I recall was 2004 2005 with 2 HOF guys , a smart technician at center in Tobeck , graybeard Gray and very adequate Sean Loclear .

My most recent good line was 2013 super bowl champs but again , statistically mediocre . Not sure how the stats are compiled but the quality of skill people , especially qb has to have an effect . Mahomes line is #4 but 3 years ago it was nonexistent as he was battered in that Tampa super bowl . Burrows is interesting as he has the #28 line and has had terrible line play his whole career yet is a play from a Lombardi and almost went back to back . So who knows . Better a good than mediocre line but it’s still a crapshoot building one .

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

A FieldGulls article posted today made an obvious and interesting point. For the first time in several years, Seattle has drafted players for each of the OL positions and those draftees actually played that position in college. Need to see what Bradford and Olu can do, but I’m cautiously encouraged by the fact they didn’t draft players with the intent to move them to a new position. Cross-Lewis-Oluwatimi-Bradford-Lucas. Home grown Oline of guys playing their proper position.

[RiverDog]

A FieldGulls article posted today made an obvious and interesting point. For the first time in several years, Seattle has drafted players for each of the OL positions and those draftees actually played that position in college. Need to see what Bradford and Olu can do, but I’m cautiously encouraged by the fact they didn’t draft players with the intent to move them to a new position. Cross-Lewis-Oluwatimi-Bradford-Lucas. Home grown Oline of guys playing their proper position.

They've used Lewis at center, so it's not like they've been completely limited to one position, but it's a valid point.

[NorthHawk]

A FieldGulls article posted today made an obvious and interesting point. For the first time in several years, Seattle has drafted players for each of the OL positions and those draftees actually played that position in college. Need to see what Bradford and Olu can do, but I’m cautiously encouraged by the fact they didn’t draft players with the intent to move them to a new position. Cross-Lewis-Oluwatimi-Bradford-Lucas. Home grown Oline of guys playing their proper position.

I never thought of that and I hope it’s a new philosophy for them in the future. How novel, drafting a player to play the position he showed well in college.
Maybe there’s hope for the OL after all.

[Hawktawk]

For a while Seattle was trying to convert some defensive players . Also Fant the basketball guy although he’s still playing elsewhere and someone I thought we should keep around . I don’t know the numbers were . I remember him hurt . But it’s a return to conventional wisdom and draft guys to play their natural position . And they should play them there too. I remember Lewis was great at his natural guard spot as a rookie . They bring in Gabe Jackson and move Lewis over and he struggled mightily . Why? Phil Haynes split time with Jackson last year . What was that ? Haynes was our best graded Olineman at the end of 21 with his explosive blocks springing Penny as Russel feasted on play action and 8 in the box .

I don’t fault Pete and John for being innovators , taking chances , thinking outside the box . I don’t blame them for trading for explosive blink of the eye game changers like Harvin or Adams

Nor the trade for a huge target like Graham . Unger had been stuffed in the super bowl by Vince Wilfork anyway leading to the qb throwing on second down without even a run fake. After the pick they thought get Russ a weapon and it’s reported he asked for Graham and I agree with it .

Hindsight is 2020 with everything . My hindsight is lots of wins and excitement including last year . I think it’s gonna be a great year .

[NorthHawk]

Unger is still the best Center we’ve had the last 15 years and it’s not even close. On e would think that when one tries to be innovators they would discard what doesn’t work and go back to what does. Since it’s taken them 7 years to figure out what everyone else could see, it has to be a failed philosophy or simply an inability to understand how to build and/or develop an OL.

[RiverDog]

Unger is still the best Center we’ve had the last 15 years and it’s not even close. On e would think that when one tries to be innovators they would discard what doesn’t work and go back to what does. Since it’s taken them 7 years to figure out what everyone else could see, it has to be a failed philosophy or simply an inability to understand how to build and/or develop an OL.

Unger was arguably the best center in franchise history. I can't think of another center that was first team All Pro when he played for us as Max was. Tobeck was never an All Pro. Blair Bush never even made a Pro Bowl, with us or anyone else he played for. Can anyone else think of a better center?

[Aseahawkfan]

Unger was arguably the best center in franchise history. I can't think of another center that was first team All Pro when he played for us as Max was. Tobeck was never an All Pro. Blair Bush never even made a Pro Bowl, with us or anyone else he played for. Can anyone else think of a better center?

We had Kevin Mawae, but couldn't maximize his potential at Center for some reason.

[RiverDog]

Unger was arguably the best center in franchise history. I can't think of another center that was first team All Pro when he played for us as Max was. Tobeck was never an All Pro. Blair Bush never even made a Pro Bowl, with us or anyone else he played for. Can anyone else think of a better center?

We had Kevin Mawae, but couldn't maximize his potential at Center for some reason.

Good call. I had forgotten about Kevin Mawae, probably because the time he played for us made him easy to forget. However, even though he earned a number of All Pro and Pro Bowl selections during his career, none were during his time as a Seahawk. But you could still make a strong argument about him being the best center in franchise history.

[obiken]

Good call. I had forgotten about Kevin Mawae, probably because the time he played for us made him easy to forget. However, even though he earned a number of All Pro and Pro Bowl selections during his career, none were during his time as a Seahawk. But you could still make a strong argument about him being the best center in franchise history.

What about Pete Kendall, was he an all pro?

[c_hawkbob]

Mawae played just fine for us! As I recall he played guard for us his first couple seasons and was all-rookie his first year. We converted him to center and he was looking great there too but we chose not to match his FA offer (I believe it was ridiculously high for the time) so he got away from us and developed into a HOFer. Letting him go was one of the biggest mistakes we ever made and I was mad as hell when it happened. I have no idea where all this 'he was terrible for us' stuff is coming from.

[Aseahawkfan]

Mawae was during the dark years under the rule of the Evil Ken Behring. He was trying to ruin the team, so why keep a quality center.

[RiverDog]

Mawae played just fine for us! As I recall he played guard for us his first couple seasons and was all-rookie his first year. We converted him to center and he was looking great there too but we chose not to match his FA offer (I believe it was ridiculously high for the time) so he got away from us and developed into a HOFer. Letting him go was one of the biggest mistakes we ever made and I was mad as hell when it happened. I have no idea where all this 'he was terrible for us' stuff is coming from.

Who said Mawae was terrible? My question was if there was a center that could be considered the best in franchise history besides Max Unger, and Mawae certainly deserves consideration. My only point was that his All Pro and Pro Bowl awards were not earned during his time as a Seahawk.

I don't think Mawae is in our ROH, either, likely because he played just 4 seasons for us. Max isn't, either, but he hasn't been retired that long, since 2019.

[RiverDog]

What about Pete Kendall, was he an all pro?

Nope. Kendall has neither an All Pro or Pro Bowl appearance to add to his resume.

[c_hawkbob]

Sorry Riv, upon rereading I see what you said as the era of Seahawks football that was so forgettable not Mawae's play. And I agree, those were the dark ages.

[RiverDog]

Sorry Riv, upon rereading I see what you said as the era of Seahawks football that was so forgettable not Mawae's play. And I agree, those were the dark ages.

No sweat, my friend. I'm glad that I'm not the only one that mis-reads a statement.

[TriCitySam]

A FieldGulls article posted today made an obvious and interesting point. For the first time in several years, Seattle has drafted players for each of the OL positions and those draftees actually played that position in college. Need to see what Bradford and Olu can do, but I’m cautiously encouraged by the fact they didn’t draft players with the intent to move them to a new position. Cross-Lewis-Oluwatimi-Bradford-Lucas. Home grown Oline of guys playing their proper position.

Yeah, and that really is what speaks to Cable's impact, as he believed in taking DL and converting them to OL....for the most part not very successful at it.

On another note, Schneider said they were ready to take a player in the 3rd round and somebody else got him so they made the trade with Denver. Which turned out OK, moving from 83 to 108 and getting a '24 3rd. Would be interesting to know who. Hooker possibly, but maybe Bryon Young (DT).

[RiverDog]

On another note, Schneider said they were ready to take a player in the 3rd round and somebody else got him so they made the trade with Denver. Which turned out OK, moving from 83 to 108 and getting a '24 3rd. Would be interesting to know who. Hooker possibly, but maybe Bryon Young (DT).

There were several times, including our two first round picks, where we waited until we had less than a minute left on the clock to get our pick in. Unless JS and PC are drama queens that like keeping everyone in suspense, they must have been entertaining a trade offer and opted not to go with it. I can't image them being undecided on a player, especially with that #5 overall.

[NorthHawk]

Schneider also alluded to trying to trade down in earlier rounds to get more picks for next year. i don't think he mentioned a particular pick, but the trade or trades didn't pan out.
The inference on my part was it was for a QB next draft because of the conversation around the comment.

[RiverDog]

Schneider also alluded to trying to trade down in earlier rounds to get more picks for next year. i don't think he mentioned a particular pick, but the trade or trades didn't pan out.
The inference on my part was it was for a QB next draft because of the conversation around the comment.

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. The rumor was that the Titans would try to trade up to our #5 spot to take one of the top 4 QB's, and as it turned out, the one that was available was Levis. They didn't take him even when they had a chance at #11, but then they took him early in the 2nd. They either aren't that confident in him or knew that he'd drop like a rock. In any case, it worked out well for them.

But that couldn't have been the potential trade the Hawks were considering as if the Titans didn't take him at #11, they wouldn't have been considering trading up.

[NorthHawk]

It was talk about trading down for more picks next year. It was quite clear that's what he meant, but he didn't mention which pick or round.
For some reason I thought 20 or 37, but it might just be me reading something into it that wasn't there.

[RiverDog]

It was talk about trading down for more picks next year. It was quite clear that's what he meant, but he didn't mention which pick or round.
For some reason I thought 20 or 37, but it might just be me reading something into it that wasn't there.

That's what I meant, too. At both times in the first round, at #5 and #20, we didn't get our pick in until within the last minute. My guess is that we were entertaining offers for us to trade down, but the major rumor that had been floating around, that the Titans would trade up to our #5 in order to take the best available QB, couldn't have been what we were taking our time over as the Titans passed on Levis at #11. I can't remember how long we took getting our picks in during the 2nd round. Our hesitation could have been just a general policy of waiting the maximum amount of time just to see if the phone was going to ring. The worst that could happen is we'd say no and make the pick anyway.

I was hoping that we would trade down out of that #5 overall if our QBOTF wasn't there and pocket a 2024 first rounder. That's not to say that I'm disappointed with Witherspoon, just that selecting a non quarterback at #5 overall wasn't my favorite option.

[NorthHawk]

There was a story a while ago that said the NFL tells the teams to take the full time in the first round so they can get more drama (and of course more advertising revenue), so I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in the time taken in the first round, and maybe second as well.

[RiverDog]

There was a story a while ago that said the NFL tells the teams to take the full time in the first round so they can get more drama (and of course more advertising revenue), so I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in the time taken in the first round, and maybe second as well.

Except that we took A LOT more time than any other team. Most of them had their picks in several minutes before midnight and none of them went anywhere near as long as we did. And I don't think it changes their timing for commercials. I've seen them go to break when the "Pick In" sign is on.

Besides, I could see them telling teams at the tail end of the first round to slow down their picks if they are in danger of ending the draft too early, but not in the top 5.

[Hawktawk]

There was a story a while ago that said the NFL tells the teams to take the full time in the first round so they can get more drama (and of course more advertising revenue), so I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in the time taken in the first round, and maybe second as well.

“ rd
Except that we took A LOT more time than any other team. Most of them had their picks in several minutes before midnight and none of them went anywhere near as long as we did. And I don't think it changes and trade their timing for commercials. I've seen them go to break when the "Pick In" sign is on.

Besides, I could see them telling teams at the tail end of the first round to slow down their picks if they are in danger of ending the draft too early, but not in the top 5.[/quote]
We took more time because we explore every option and trade offer every pick I think .That’s good I think .
John Lynch made some comments the other day . To the effect of “ Seattle had a great draft last year . They are a good team . If they have half as good a draft this year they will be a challenge “ WE FEEL THEM COMING “ .
I can’t think of a reason Lynch would adress Seattle at all unless he’s just being honest . We are the second team in division right now .

Pete and John got their stroke back . Got their mojo working . Getcha popcorn .

[NorthHawk]

You’re not getting it.
The NFL tells teams to take the max amount of time.
Therefore it’s quite possible that they were just doing what was asked and many teams follow suit because it directly impacts revenue. More ads = more money, and if nothing else, the NFL is aware of money.

[govandals]

Another good bit of behind the scenes from John Boyle, I think he wrote one last year too.

https://www.seahawks.com/news/go-with-t ... -nfl-draft

It was reported they had 20 1st round grades, I didn't know Derek Hall was one of them. So 3 guys in their top 20 is pretty darn good. Sounds like they take all their picks down to the wire because Trader John is always looking for a deal, even if they are certain they are taking a particular player in said spot. The idea the league tells teams to take max time seems silly to me, if that's the case, why did they change from 15 mins to 10 mins a few years ago? That shortened the first round by about an hour, so an hours worth of less advertisements.

Overall, I think it was a good haul, I'm not as sky high as others though. Still disappointed they pass on Levis, He's got Justin Herbert written all over him. Time will tell, of course.

[NorthHawk]

15 minutes was too long and people were tuning out between picks. There's a sweet spot to keep viewers and maximize ad revenue and 15 minutes wasn't it.
For me, 10 minutes is on the edge of being too long, but they don't want the draft to only be 60 minutes when they can get another hour or 90 minutes of advertising revenue.

[govandals]

I suppose that could be, although I'm not buying it. Moving the draft to prime time and extending it to 3 days probably increased ad revenue as well.

[NorthHawk]

I suppose that could be, although I'm not buying it. Moving the draft to prime time and extending it to 3 days probably increased ad revenue as well.

I'm sure part of it is teams notifying other teams that a trade could be made, but most of the time teams already know who is really interested, so there are only a few teams that would be contacted and that would only take a couple of minutes.
The rest is unaccounted for and in the mean time TV ads are inserted and more money is made for the NFL as it adds to the drama.

[Hawktawk]

I heard John say they were so high on the back out of UCLA they considered taking him at 37 instead of the edge guy . Said they were very on him and surprised he was there with the second pick in the 50s . I’m personally excited for 2 top off the shelf backs . Tired of everyone hurt at seasons end .

[NorthHawk]

I heard John say they were so high on the back out of UCLA they considered taking him at 37 instead of the edge guy . Said they were very on him and surprised he was there with the second pick in the 50s . I’m personally excited for 2 top off the shelf backs . Tired of everyone hurt at seasons end .

I’ve been hoping for a real good 2nd RB for years, so I’m really happy they chose him. What we have to think of in today’s Offenses is that these types of players (Charbonnet and McIntosh) aren’t just RBs of old, they are multi-dimensional players that can play a lot of different roles. I really hope Waldron increases the use of RBs pass catching out of the backfield. As a side note, they have been described as being fairly good pass blockers, too. I think our Offense could take the next step in its development.

[Hawktawk]

Can’t remember the source and not sure if someone shared it somewhere but an analysis I just read said they also won UDFA with 17 of their 23 signings on the top 500 big board of this analyst . He said they won it by a large margin . So maybe there’s more surprises . Maybe Pete and john are finding new ways to build the roster .

[NorthHawk]

Can’t remember the source and not sure if someone shared it somewhere but an analysis I just read said they also won UDFA with 17 of their 23 signings on the top 500 big board of this analyst . He said they won it by a large margin . So maybe there’s more surprises . Maybe Pete and john are finding new ways to build the roster .

I think they are going back to their old ways which were successful and it makes one wonder why they would change that philosophy that worked so well.
We'll see if they stick to it when the team is strong in a couple of years except for a position or two. It will be the litmus test of whether they really have changed.

[tarlhawk]

We just signed our 25 UDFA (largest UDFA group signed in the NFL) and have 6 of our drafted players signed. Go Hawks

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure what to make of this as I don't have a clue when it comes to this gang related stuff, but I'm glad he's someone else's problem and not ours:

Video Surfaces of Philadelphia #Eagles first round pick Jalen Carter repping blood gang, he could possibly be facing suspension.

https://twitter.com/GOATED_LF/status/16 ... -on-him%2F

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure what to make of this as I don't have a clue when it comes to this gang related stuff, but I'm glad he's someone else's problem and not ours:

Video Surfaces of Philadelphia #Eagles first round pick Jalen Carter repping blood gang, he could possibly be facing suspension.

https://twitter.com/GOATED_LF/status/16 ... -on-him%2F

I don't understand the meaning, either but it doesn't look good. So much for other players keeping him in check. There's a lot of time until TC and he's got $20M in his pocket. What did they think he was going to do, ghost his friends from the old neighborhood? Unfortunately if true, the people he hangs around with will use him for his money until he has none left then forget about him.