Our Safety Cup Runneth Over

[tarlhawk]

Our safety cup runneth over...our money is invested there...we have abandoned our hey days of Earl Thomas roaming in a single high safety role.Earl was special in the attack angles he took and the speed burst to get to his target...so our philosophy guided by Pete who played safety as well has molded into a more collective minds brand that is just getting shaped into having special personnel to transform potential into production.

Jamal Adams had a huge role to play in our defenses re-design as a safety in the box at Linebacker depth but not Linebacker gap responsibilities...free to seek and destroy based on instincts. His role is as a safety hybrid not a LB hybrid. Ryan Neal had one of his best seasons in the schemes we employed last year but gap responsibility isn't easy in a light box...run stopping gets sacrificed for better coverage but your D-line better be penetrating the backfield to keep running plays from finding the best gap to explode through.

When Ken Norton began using more 3-4 hybrid schemes KJ was a difference maker with uncanny instincts and very good athleticism...Wagner and KJ had excellent gap discipline and experience but our legion of boom secondary allowed Kam to hammer out his role as a punishing assassin...again very special individuals playing under rules that were just starting to tip the balance toward the offenses use of the middle of the field.

A healthy Jamal Adams makes a very talented Ryan Neal the odd man out for defensive snaps...still able to come in to spark momentum in dime packages (if our team survives without him leaving us by April 21 as a tendered restricted free agent). Julian Love provides very good range when in our two deep shell packages and unless Coby Bryant bites into M-Jack/Tre Brown cornerback snaps you'll probably see Love shifting into nickel slot roles with "in the box" run discipline and TE seam/3rd WR slant coverage.

Loves signing relegates Joey Blount to special teams/ roster bubble cut when 53 man roster gets set...windows of opportunity have to be aggressively pursued by many flash plays as M-Jack benefitted from. Our corners need to be aggressive as run thumpers not window dressing when set to contain the edge. Sherman and Brandon Browner defined run "containment" with initial contact aggression. We want intimidating tacklers not just "athletes in motion".

Tre Brown and Coby Bryant have flashed often but M-Jack's aggression in run defense has so far held the 2nd CB spot opposite Tariq Woolen. Our secondary has the depth and special youth that is waiting for our D-line to duplicate...and we have added a d-line coaching specialist BT Jordan to jump start our pass rush for penetration.

As a team we tied with 3 other teams for 7th place in total sacks produced but TFL defines the penetration needed blow up running plays before they take advantage of our "light box" schemes. Our draft set-up is better than that enjoyed last year so another impactful draft is possible with John Schneider as our GM...free agency has sown the "seeds"...what will that yield in our upcoming draft? Go Hawks

[tarlhawk]

Many people question the desire to employ a "big nickel" scheme as a desperate effort to make use of the drastic cost Jamal Adams represented...but this was actually considered as a viable scheme shortly after drafting Marquise Blair when we had Quandre Diggs and Bradley McDougald established. Almost like an injury jinx Marquise Blair never became the heavy nickel corner piece Pete imagined him growing into...and now Jamal Adams has been injury bit as well. IF we can turn curse into blessing Jamal Adams has a healthy green light to play in 2023 then perhaps this Big Nickel approach can really bear fruit...Jamal Adams is the Linchpin to pre-snap/post-snap coverage disquise with QB pressure without sacrificing explosive run plays given up. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

They can't spend $40+ Million on 3 Safties. Something has to give as we don't have any Cap space.
The best way is to jettison Adams as a post June 1st cut along with extending Diggs with a voidable year. They've put themselves in this mess and it's going to take a bold move to get out of it along with a couple more years of dead Cap space.
Maybe their plan is to draft a Safety and let that cost mitigate the dead cap hit and Diggs salary. What has been shown is Adams isn't a very good Safety or maybe fit here in Seattle. He's simply not worth the money that he's been given so best to cut ties now and move on.

[RiverDog]

They can't spend $40+ Million on 3 Safties. Something has to give as we don't have any Cap space.
The best way is to jettison Adams as a post June 1st cut along with extending Diggs with a voidable year. They've put themselves in this mess and it's going to take a bold move to get out of it along with a couple more years of dead Cap space.
Maybe their plan is to draft a Safety and let that cost mitigate the dead cap hit and Diggs salary. What has been shown is Adams isn't a very good Safety or maybe fit here in Seattle. He's simply not worth the money that he's been given so best to cut ties now and move on.

I agree with this. No matter how you spin it, no matter what kind of defense you employ, a safety, by definition, is a low value position. They are a failsafe to defensive linemen, linebackers, and cornerbacks. They make other positions and players better, clean up after their messes. It is insane to dedicate as much money as we have to our safeties while other positions are left starving for talent.

[c_hawkbob]

Well it looks like Neal is the odd safety out, we just rescinded his tender.

[tarlhawk]

Well it looks like Neal is the odd safety out, we just rescinded his tender.

I knew a healthy Jamal Adams would eat into Ryan Neals defensive snaps with Julius Love aboard...but this soon is why Seattle maintains good relationships with players it releases. Plenty of time for Neal to grab a starting role before the draft begins by taking off our tendered right of first refusal. The amount "saved" seems very small...just like the release of Al Woods earlier so it gives them plenty of opportunity to attract interest yet doesn't lock the door to a possible return if they don't find a new home. Ryan Neal and Al Woods are both coming off very good 2022 seasons so opportunity should be there if its something they want away from here.

[NorthHawk]

I’d rather they had cut Adams and kept the tender on Neal.
It’ll probably happen later because we’re still paying $40 Million or more for 3 Safeties even with Neal not on the books.

[Aseahawkfan]

I’d rather they had cut Adams and kept the tender on Neal.
It’ll probably happen later because we’re still paying $40 Million or more for 3 Safeties even with Neal not on the books.

Way too much on one position we're not getting value out of.

[RiverDog]

I’d rather they had cut Adams and kept the tender on Neal.
It’ll probably happen later because we’re still paying $40 Million or more for 3 Safeties even with Neal not on the books.

Yeah, me, too. Neal held his own against the run and was a lot better in pass coverage than Adams was/is. The only area where Adams has the clear advantage is in his ability to pressure the QB, and if you're having to depend on your safety to get pressure, you're probably in trouble anyway.

[HawkSis]

When healthy (can hardly remember when he was), JA is a huge difference maker. HUGE. With the injuries that he's suffered, shoulders and the bad leg injury last year, I just don't know how much we can count on him. Still count me amongst the few that still appreciates this trade. It didn't work out, but only due to strange and atypical injuries (for a normally healthy DAWG). if he can return to even 3/4 of the dude he was his 1st season with us, it would be great. That's a pretty big IF, however.

[obiken]

All it takes is one injury and your thin again. I still think we lost the SB against Pitts, when Ken Hamlin got his skull cracked in Pioneer Square.

[HawkSis]

And the SB after the 2014 season (the game that shall have no name) after Cliff went out. J. Lane too, but our front lost its way when Cliff went out. Every team is an ACL away from mediocrity, depending on the player.

[RiverDog]

When healthy (can hardly remember when he was), JA is a huge difference maker. HUGE. With the injuries that he's suffered, shoulders and the bad leg injury last year, I just don't know how much we can count on him. Still count me amongst the few that still appreciates this trade. It didn't work out, but only due to strange and atypical injuries (for a normally healthy DAWG). if he can return to even 3/4 of the dude he was his 1st season with us, it would be great. That's a pretty big IF, however.

I gotta disagree with you, Sis. Adams played extremely well when he first came over from the Jets, but he thrived in a vacuum that should never have existed in the first place, ie an anemic pass rush out of our front 7. Once opposing teams figured him out, started accounting for him whenever he approached the LOS, he was much less effective. Indeed, after racking up 9.5 sacks in 2020, he hasn't recorded a single sack since then. He was a quick fix at a time when we thought that we could compete for a SB (that was the season when we ran out to a 5-0 start) and desperately needed pass rush support. Heck, over a year after the trade, Pete admitted that they were still trying to figure out how to use him.

Obviously, Adams biggest problem has been his inability to stay on the field, but even when he's been healthy, he hasn't been solid contributor. He isn't a ball hawk, doesn't have that good nose for the football that you would expect out of a safety. In the three years he's been with us, he's had just two interceptions, no fumble recoveries, and one forced fumble.

I don't want to give folks the impression that I think he's dog meat and it does need to be noted that he's a great locker room guy, but he's way, way over paid, a run of the mill defensive back whose strong suit is pressuring the quarterback but is offset by his being a liability in pass coverage.

[NorthHawk]

There’s talk that we could see a lot of a 3-3-5 Defense this year. That might be the reason for signing Love to go with Diggs and Adams. If it happens it will be interesting to see what each’s responsibility is and how they would be used. In that scheme, Adams might be the weak link even if he can last for the year.

[RiverDog]

There’s talk that we could see a lot of a 3-3-5 Defense this year. That might be the reason for signing Love to go with Diggs and Adams. If it happens it will be interesting to see what each’s responsibility is and how they would be used. In that scheme, Adams might be the weak link even if he can last for the year.

I've heard that, too, that we might be playing 3 safeties on the field at once, with Adams as a hybrid safety/linebacker lining up near the LOS. It wouldn't be a half bad idea if Adams were built like Kam Chancellor, but at 6'1" and 210 lbs, he's going to get rolled up against the run if they play like that on all 3 downs.

[Hawktawk]

When healthy (can hardly remember when he was), JA is a huge difference maker. HUGE. With the injuries that he's suffered, shoulders and the bad leg injury last year, I just don't know how much we can count on him. Still count me amongst the few that still appreciates this trade. It didn't work out, but only due to strange and atypical injuries (for a normally healthy DAWG). if he can return to even 3/4 of the dude he was his 1st season with us, it would be great. That's a pretty big IF, however.

I agree . Injuries are my main disappointment. He was playing well before hurt in 21 including improving coverage and 2 picks . In the opener he got hurt sacking Wilson . Seattle isn’t lucky in general . Put he and Penny on last years team . Yeah I know aunts and uncles and balls and the lack thereof. The move with Neal tells me they like love and they feel Adams will be ready . Not holding my breath on that .

[NorthHawk]

A Safety with poor ball skills isn't good value. He dropped a lot of them with the Jets, too. There's a reason he was available and not in the plans for the Jets.
More hype than productivity.

[RiverDog]

I agree . Injuries are my main disappointment. He was playing well before hurt in 21 including improving coverage and 2 picks . In the opener he got hurt sacking Wilson . Seattle isn’t lucky in general . Put he and Penny on last years team . Yeah I know aunts and uncles and balls and the lack thereof. The move with Neal tells me they like love and they feel Adams will be ready . Not holding my breath on that .

2 INT's? BFD. For a reference, Diggs had 5 in the same season. He's not a ball hawk. I've seen interceptions bounce off his facemask. Plus, Adams had zero sacks in '21, and that was after he had a personal high of 9.5 in his first season with us. I'm not sure which team you were watchig in '21, but if you thought Adams had improved his pass coverage skills, it wasn't the Seahawks.

If we're going to use pass coverage as a criteria, we'd be better off starting Neal even if Adams were completely healthy. Make no mistake: Adams was brought in to bring pressure on the QB and make plays behind the LOS. It's his long suit, and it's why Pete is considering deploying him as a hybrid linebacker. If he's not getting to the QB or at least forcing our opponent out of their game to account for him, he's not producing.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

It's fair to say he was overused in the QB pressure role. We had virtually zero effective options. Adams did have a really nice season as an all-rounder in 2018. 115 tackles, 1 int, 15 pd, 3.5 sacks. I don't know if that we'll ever happen again with him. Seattle needs a D-line that can keep him clean more often than not, but that still might not matter. He messed up his quad on a free run to Russel Wilson. I'm sure we all hope he can get on the field and stay there for the season while playing well, but I'm sure well share a healthy dose of skepticism on that actually happening.

[NorthHawk]

It's fair to say he was overused in the QB pressure role. We had virtually zero effective options. Adams did have a really nice season as an all-rounder in 2018. 115 tackles, 1 int, 15 pd, 3.5 sacks. I don't know if that we'll ever happen again with him. Seattle needs a D-line that can keep him clean more often than not, but that still might not matter. He messed up his quad on a free run to Russel Wilson. I'm sure we all hope he can get on the field and stay there for the season while playing well, but I'm sure well share a healthy dose of skepticism on that actually happening.

Exactly. We had zero options. It just points out the horrendous personnel management that happened during that 4 or 5 year stretch where every off season Pete said we had to improve the pass rush then did nothing about it in FA or the draft.
The year we traded the farm for Adams? We had Irvin and Mayowa as starting DE's. We don't have to look any farther than that to see how the pass rush was bungled.

His injury history points to increased possibility of drafting a Safety. Hopefully we can re-sign Neal, but that isn't a given and considering our Cap space issue, well we've discussed that before...

[RiverDog]

It's fair to say he was overused in the QB pressure role. We had virtually zero effective options. Adams did have a really nice season as an all-rounder in 2018. 115 tackles, 1 int, 15 pd, 3.5 sacks. I don't know if that we'll ever happen again with him. Seattle needs a D-line that can keep him clean more often than not, but that still might not matter. He messed up his quad on a free run to Russel Wilson. I'm sure we all hope he can get on the field and stay there for the season while playing well, but I'm sure well share a healthy dose of skepticism on that actually happening.

Exactly. We had zero options. It just points out the horrendous personnel management that happened during that 4 or 5 year stretch where every off season Pete said we had to improve the pass rush then did nothing about it in FA or the draft.
The year we traded the farm for Adams? We had Irvin and Mayowa as starting DE's. We don't have to look any farther than that to see how the pass rush was bungled.

His injury history points to increased possibility of drafting a Safety. Hopefully we can re-sign Neal, but that isn't a given and considering our Cap space issue, well we've discussed that before...

We traded for Adams in 2020. Irvin wasn't added to the roster until last season. LJ Collier was our starting DE. But Collier was worse than Irvin was at getting pass rush pressure, so your point is completely valid.

[mykc14]

There’s talk that we could see a lot of a 3-3-5 Defense this year. That might be the reason for signing Love to go with Diggs and Adams. If it happens it will be interesting to see what each’s responsibility is and how they would be used. In that scheme, Adams might be the weak link even if he can last for the year.

I think that was the plan last year too and although Adam's wasn't the sole reason we switched to the 3-4 his role as that third safety was certainly going to be a positive in that system. It would have been nice to free him up to be in the box with less coverage responsibilities.

[tarlhawk]

Ryan Neal seems to be experiencing a domino type effect...with Jamal Adams expected return kicking him out to Nickel package competition...but Julius Love's signing and Coby Bryant/Tre Brown would kick Neal out to Dime package competition where Tre Brown and perhaps a cheaper Joey Blount (for an unlikely 4 safety Dime)provide best options...and the domino has stopped to give Ryan Neal his best opportunity to be a starter somewhere else before this years draft (which has some good safety depth) impacts Ryans market value. My own guess is our team was surprised to snag Love at a reasonable price. The Big Nickel package for 2023 seems to have set expectations on Diggs...a healthy Adams and now Julius Love...freeing Jamal Adams to free lance from LB depth...without LB gap responsibility. Yes Diggs and Adams are big cap hits...only possible due to Geno's team building cap hit of 10 million...but perhaps this 2023 draft will provide a safety target of interest to compete in 2024 as Backup/Replacement for Adams/Diggs since Love's signing procures at least one safety with a smaller cap hit in 2024. Ryan Neal thrived in the 3-4 schemes of our 2022 defense...but that role was meant for Jamal Adams. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

Neal made big plays which surprised many of us and Adams did not - or had the ball bounce off him when he had the chance (he had similar problems in NY), but if we go into the draft with the current roster of Safeties then drafting another one seems in the cards as we don't know if Adams will be healthy and we can't count on him making it through the season. Obviously playing 3 Safeties means one less as a backup so we will have to take that into account if one is used as a hybrid Safety/Line Backer.

[tarlhawk]

As we continue to improve our core talent base ...the names released/exposed to free agency become a bit more painful than in recent years. "Hands of stone" is just the equivalent of kicking a man when he is down but as a former NFL AP All-Pro (yes...before WE got him) he has the ability to "take over" a game while Neal had flashes. Our 2023 schedule ranks as 6th hardest from a report shortly after schedules got released and doesn't get easier with new NFL allowance of two Thursday night games being possible. We NEED a healthy Jamal Adams (Hate aside) to tip the balance in our direction. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

He just doesn't have good ball skills. That's not kicking a guy when he's down, it's just stating a fact.
The other fact is we are paying far too much for a player who is producing very little. That's not kicking him when he's down, either. Outside of the first half of the season when he first got here and was used almost exclusively as a pass rusher, he hasn't done anything to separate himself from the average at best Safeties.
With over $40M assigned to the Safety position for 3 players, something has to change. It's far too much to spend for that position even if they all stay healthy and play above expectations.

[RiverDog]

According to Jordan Schultz with NFL Insider, it looks like we've lost Ryan Neal:

Former #Seahawks safety Ryan Neal has agreed to terms on a one-year deal with the #Bucs, source tells
@theScore.

Legitimate starting caliber player who put together very solid tape in Seattle last season. Only 27 years old.

https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report?ref_ ... w-nfl-team

IMO he played better at free safety than Adams did.

[NorthHawk]

It's looking more and more like a Safety will become a priority in the draft. Maybe a big CB that can play S and used in some type of hybrid scheme to try to take away the athletic advantage that the younger TEs we face have.

[HawkSis]

Damn. I loved Ryan Neal

[tarlhawk]

Our Safety grouping has "added" a competitive warrior in the 6th round (Jerrick Reed II) from the New Mexico Lobos.

From Brent Stecker (Editor Seattle Sports.com) :

As a senior, Reed started all 12 games for New Mexico, making 94 total tackles, 4.5 tackles with loss, two forced fumbles, 12 passes defensed and an interception.

Jerrick Reed II was one of three players drafted from our top-30 visits (also Devon Weatherspoon and Anthony Bradford). He is on the "smallish" side of being a safety "thumper" but has a mean streak and killer attitude and listed at 5'10" 192# carries the "chip" of being considered small for an NFL Safety...but he finds solace in knowing Quandre Diggs is 5'9" 197 and hits like a ton of bricks.

[NorthHawk]

He’s a very interesting pick. He’s a lot like Witherspoon in that he’s not real big but is a big hitter.
Physical players are a theme from this draft.

[tarlhawk]

I remember from the hey days of Michael Bennett /Avril/ Wags/ KJ and Kam/ET a reporter asked Michael Bennett what defines/separates their intimidation/enforcement reputation at that time...he responded by saying our Defense was loaded with players who loved to tackle and that many NFL teams were shying away from aggressive tackling (was he implying concern for injury risk of such individuals?) I loved the physicality of Kam Chancellor and marvelled at the way an opponent's RB/TE had a full head of steam ...that is up until sudden impact with Kam flattened him instantly...very violent but really just solid tackling technique. Our team seems to be heading in the right direction of restoring some nastiness and swagger...runners beware! Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

Maybe it will rub off on some of the others who have had some problems tackling the last few years.

[tarlhawk]

Pete is always talking about wanting to fill our team with players having an inner fire to overcome the various sources of doubters a football player encounters to earn respect for a sport he loves to pursue...aka this is the "chip on his shoulder" athlete. Jerrick Reed II is our latest safety but Jamal Adams definitely wears that "badge" as he attempts to come back with a vengeance...no doubt reading all that social media hate that his pal Diggs has noticed as well.

Serious injuries have plagued any ability to justify his high contract and draft cost (The biggest gain for the NY Jets was getting Garrett Wilson at WR). This year will target fielding our best safety tandem to step up in run defense support as we continue to build up and stack our D-line...we have safety depth to field the Big Nickel 3 safety package that could feature Adams in a hybrid role allowing him to "feature" in the box or at the Line of Scrimmage as scheme allows. Pete and Clint want him back in a bad way to limit our vulnerability to explosive plays from both TE and RB. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

At this point I think of Jerrick Reed as this years Ryan Neal. He's a bit smaller, but really competes. I don't know if he will end up on the team or ever starting, but from what I've read about him and how others who know him talk, he's of a similar mind set.

I think Adams is a lot of hot air. There's a reason the Jets wanted to rid themselves of him and even when healthy he hasn't been that good, so he really has to show something to prove he's worth his contract even discounting what we gave up for him.

[tarlhawk]

At this point I think of Jerrick Reed as this years Ryan Neal. He's a bit smaller, but really competes. I don't know if he will end up on the team or ever starting, but from what I've read about him and how others who know him talk, he's of a similar mind set.

I think Adams is a lot of hot air. There's a reason the Jets wanted to rid themselves of him and even when healthy he hasn't been that good, so he really has to show something to prove he's worth his contract even discounting what we gave up for him.

Seems like I'm always lately defending Jamal in our posts...but really? The Jets wanted to rid themselves of a young all-pro they drafted #6 in the first round?? My take was it was all financial/ugly business end of it with Adams claiming he and their GM had a verbal agreement that never materialized...heated passion led to ET leaving us...so why is it hard to imagine heated passion led to Jamal being offered in a trade. Both Adams and Grahm came to our team as a result of contract wars between the players and their frustrated GM's...we have bad luck "swooping" in on tempting bounty!

[Aseahawkfan]

Jets won the Jamal trade. We're spending too much on a safety who can't stay on the field. I hope Pete and John's Band-Aid trade days are over. Geno isn't a QB who can get it done with band-aid fixes. Geno needs a very good team with a top defense to be able to have any chance of getting it done.

I figure Jamal gets back on the field this year and shows he can stay on the field and play at a high level or he's gone. This is probably his last year to prove he can play at a high level in the NFL and maintain any kind of bargaining power or high salary. If he can't do it, he's going to be relegated to a player moving from team to team trying to regain the ability that got him drafted 6th overall.

[Aseahawkfan]

Seems like I'm always lately defending Jamal in our posts...but really? The Jets wanted to rid themselves of a young all-pro they drafted #6 in the first round?? My take was it was all financial/ugly business end of it with Adams claiming he and their GM had a verbal agreement that never materialized...heated passion led to ET leaving us...so why is it hard to imagine heated passion led to Jamal being offered in a trade. Both Adams and Grahm came to our team as a result of contract wars between the players and their frustrated GM's...we have bad luck "swooping" in on tempting bounty!

We really haven't had luck doing this unless the cost was real low like the Marshawn trade.

Every high cost, high profile trade we made ended badly or mediocre. The best trades we've made have been low cost, high reward trades like Marshawn or Diggs. No one is complaining we traded for Diggs because he was a 5th round pick. We picked up Chris Clemons and a 4th round pick for Darryl Tapp. Some of John's early, low cost trades were amazing. These recent high cost trades have sucked and been some of the worst in Seattle history or at least not worth doing in retrospect.

[RiverDog]

Seems like I'm always lately defending Jamal in our posts...but really? The Jets wanted to rid themselves of a young all-pro they drafted #6 in the first round?? My take was it was all financial/ugly business end of it with Adams claiming he and their GM had a verbal agreement that never materialized...heated passion led to ET leaving us...so why is it hard to imagine heated passion led to Jamal being offered in a trade. Both Adams and Grahm came to our team as a result of contract wars between the players and their frustrated GM's...we have bad luck "swooping" in on tempting bounty!

We really haven't had luck doing this unless the cost was real low like the Marshawn trade.

Every high cost, high profile trade we made ended badly or mediocre. The best trades we've made have been low cost, high reward trades like Marshawn or Diggs. No one is complaining we traded for Diggs because he was a 5th round pick. We picked up Chris Clemons and a 4th round pick for Darryl Tapp. Some of John's early, low cost trades were amazing. These recent high cost trades have sucked and been some of the worst in Seattle history or at least not worth doing in retrospect.

I'm with ASF on this one. Three expensive, high-profile trades, ie Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, and Jamal Adams, while we may argue over semantics like "bust", for one reason or another did not yield expected results. We've had much better luck with the under the radar type trades.

[obiken]

I'm with ASF on this one. Three expensive, high-profile trades, ie Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, and Jamal Adams, while we may argue over semantics like "bust", for one reason or another did not yield expected results. We've had much better luck with the under the radar type trades.

Its not so much them but what we had to give up for them, especially Graham and Adams. The game has changed, you do not give up first rounders for Box Safeties.