NorthHawk wrote:Like was said in the other thread, it's just another piece of information and teams will put more or less weight on the results depending on their point of view.
Only a fool would take one test and drop a player from their board if all of the other measureables are favorable. But it might mean that they want to look into some aspects a little deeper. In CJ Strouds case, their Offense and fantastic WR weapons means it's a little harder to see things that have been recorded, but the basics are still there to make a valid decision on if he fits what the team expects a QB to do.
It could be that some player scores the best ever on that test but makes stupid decisions with the ball. What do teams that put a lot of stock in this test do?
So it's just another tool to find out who that player is on the field and how well he may do in the NFL. It's not foolproof or definitive, but it's a piece of the puzzle.
What it might do is encourage a team to select a QB later in the draft who scored well in the hopes they hit the jackpot. Purdy would add to this narrative considering his success last year.
NorthHawk wrote:The test isn't that old, so there won't be as large of a data base as a test like the Wonderlic which has been used for a much longer time.
That said, it might not have been leaked by the company but rather by the players that do well. We know about Brees and Mahomes, Allen and others, so maybe they let that information out.
It may be the same this year with Young and Levis, and it might be a rumor by a team to try to push down the draft stock for Stroud by giving out false info. We don't know, but I think the teams do have that info and we don't.
It's why I'm not expecting teams to put a lot of emphasis on it this year, but maybe 5 or 10 years down the road it could be an indicator of success, large or small.
NorthHawk wrote:We, the general public probably shouldn’t be given that info, but I’m sure the teams will.
Some of it will leak. It always does, but we will never really know the accuracy of the reports.
That’s great, but what about the guys who didn’t do well on the test, are any of them good QBs? What about the guys who did well on the test but aren’t good QBs? We don’t know, and we may never know, because if players who test poorly go on to good careers and players who test well have poor ones then the test is worthless.
That’s great, but what about the guys who didn’t do well on the test, are any of them good QBs? What about the guys who did well on the test but aren’t good QBs? We don’t know, and we may never know, because if players who test poorly go on to good careers and players who test well have poor ones then the test is worthless.
jshawaii22 wrote:That is not a fair correlation at all. "The test is worthless" -- no not at all. It's ONE PART of many tests, talks, meetings, on-field film, etc etc that teams can use to evaluate a player. That's ALL it is. When you look at a whole career, you must factor in being drafted by certain teams vs better teams. How about better coaches? Injuries?
NorthHawk wrote:There are some other rumors about Stroud that are probably pushing him down the boards.
Probably unfair, but there's one out there that he isn't very coachable and there's always the concern that he's had so much help at Ohio St. that his learning curve will be huge when making the transition to the NFL. The learning curve is the same with Hooker and his Offense in Tenn. Adding in a suspect report of a bad test would just add to the negativity.
jshawaii22 wrote:Bottom Line: Here's the way teams should be looking at Stroud's ability to play the game:
Against Georgia, the #1 team in the nation and a team with many draftable players on defense, Stroud finished with 348 yards and four touchdowns on 23 of 34 passing while adding another 34 yards on the ground.Jan 2, 2023. That was one of the best football games I watched last year. S2? Not much to say on that. I now have him going to us at #5 in CBob's mock behind only the 2 edge we need more.
jshawaii22 wrote:Bottom Line: Here's the way teams should be looking at Stroud's ability to play the game:
Against Georgia, the #1 team in the nation and a team with many draftable players on defense, Stroud finished with 348 yards and four touchdowns on 23 of 34 passing while adding another 34 yards on the ground.Jan 2, 2023. That was one of the best football games I watched last year. S2? Not much to say on that. I now have him going to us at #5 in CBob's mock behind only the 2 edge we need more.
mykc14 wrote:I don't think you should ever draft a player just because of one game. With that being said that one game was very impressive for Stroud. He looked great. The question is do the Hawks think that is who he can be every game in the pros or is he a guy who isn't super mobile and needs to be surrounded by the best athletes in a simple system and get reads from the sidelines to be successful? That one game really intrigues me but I worry if that can translate to the pros for him on a consistent basis- especially if any of the other stuff coming out about him is true. At the same time none of these prospects are perfect and there have been clear concerns about almost every quarterback coming out of college so as long as he's really willing to work on his weaknesses he clearly has the arm talent to play at the next level.
RiverDog wrote:
It wasn't just one game.
RiverDog wrote:It wasn't just one game.
mykc14 wrote:It was just one game. It was the only game where he had to be the man. It was the only game that he had to play off-script. Let's be honest, overall he had the easiest situation as a QB in the nation. He had the best offensive line and had a ton of time to throw. He had the best athletes surrounding him- by a long shot- I mean he was throwing to a top 3 receiver in the draft this year and the number one ranked receiver in next years draft (if he comes out). He played in an offense that allowed him to only have to read half of the field and I would imagine that at least 80% of the time his first read was all he had to look at. How hard was it to play QB at Ohio State last year. Imagine being able to get a snap, know that pressure isn't going to be in your face as you read 1 receiver who has an 80% chance of getting open. He did not have a hard job in terms of being a QB. This is why QB's from talent rich schools running college offenses scare me. With that being said he played out of his mind in that Georgia game. He didn't have way more talent than Georgia. He was harrased and had to move around in the pocket, roll out, and scramble. He made plays. He didn't sit back and throw- he made plays. He had to go to his 3rd read. He had to throw the ball away. He did everything you want to see your QB do on the biggest stage. He was the man. It was one game, but he showed that he has the potential to do things that he was never asked to do in college. The other games, the stats, they don't much matter to me. I'm saying this as somebody who actually likes Stroud. That game helped change my about him and put him and made me think he could be special in the NFL. The other stuff coming out about him now has begun to worry me a bit. IF he has a lower S2 score, IF he isn't really coachable, IF he doesn't follow through with his obligations then maybe that one game was an aberration. With that all being said I do like him- he has a fantastic arm. He isn't a super athlete but showed enough mobility to be able to play at the next level.
jshawaii22 wrote:mykc14,
By your own measurement of "being held back by the OSU system"... well, to me that means he has a lot of upside and at least one year to learn how to be a NFL level QB. It also means that he takes direction from his coaches and doesn't go off-script to his own detriment.
I will give you that except for the Michigan and Georgia games he played "high school" level defenses relevant to his offense's talent level, but I watched film on Levis, Richardson and the midget, and I think Stroud has more potential and is already a better looking QB. Maybe he steps in the way Russell did a decade ago. Who knows. He could also be a bust.
i don't know if we would draft him at #5, I still think we could trade down to Tennessee, I read Peter Kings MMQB and it seems teams are moving on from him as he's now outside of the top 7 (I don't see it) but you never know. I week ago Levis was dropping like a rock, some mocks had us taking him at 20, and now he's supposed to be going #1, and his betting line is dropping as HUGE $$$ are being bet on him in Vegas and online. Down from 4000 to 400 in 24 hours. That's wild! It's the NFL Draft.
RiverDog wrote:
I'll admit that I didn't watch very much of Stroud prior to the CFB semi-final game vs. Georgia, but there's no way you can put up those kinds of consistent numbers over the course of two years with smoke and mirrors as you're suggesting.
My point is that there's so much scrutiny over these quarterbacks that it's almost impossible not to have 'some other stuff' come out about them.
jshawaii22 wrote:mykc14,
By your own measurement of "being held back by the OSU system"... well, to me that means he has a lot of upside and at least one year to learn how to be a NFL level QB. It also means that he takes direction from his coaches and doesn't go off-script to his own detriment.
I will give you that except for the Michigan and Georgia games he played "high school" level defenses relevant to his offense's talent level, but I watched film on Levis, Richardson and the midget, and I think Stroud has more potential and is already a better looking QB. Maybe he steps in the way Russell did a decade ago. Who knows. He could also be a bust.
mykc14 wrote:Many QB's have put great numbers in college with less talent around them and not been able to produce at the pro level. You absolutely can put up those numbers with the advantages that he has had over every other quarterback in the nation. Again, I actually like him and don't mind him at 5, but I am more concerned about him now then I was a month ago. This is because the "other stuff" coming out about him deals directly with my concern about how he was so successful in college- surrounded by talent, system, easy reads, and time to throw. If he doesn't process well and isn't coachable then those are two huge concerns because he won't enjoy the same advantages that he had over everybody else when he's in the pros. Obviously we don't know how much of the "other stuff" is true which is why I capitalized IF. Just because it might not be true doesn't mean I'm going to dismiss it. Will Levis, Anthony Richardson, and to a lesser degree Bryce Young all have concerns as well but those have been known for a long time- their concerns haven't changed where as this is new information about Stroud and IF true would be very concerning.
RiverDog wrote: IMO Stroud's college numbers are legitimate and not propped up by playing with superior talent. Does that mean that he can replicate them at the next level? Maybe, maybe not. But seeing him play at a high level against the two-time defending National Champs...and not just his stats, but the way he threw the ball by hitting his back foot in rhythm and throwing a dart just over the head of a defender...in my mind, validated his career numbers.
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Hawktawk wrote:How many college QBs actually play a pro style offense ? I know how many play against 11 pros . None .
It’s I bet many many college programs have plays called in and QBs primarily reading one side of the field .
And these tests . I don’t know . How many super high scores fail ? How many lower scores succeed ? I’m sure both happen . Joey Harrington was As a bipolar man I can attest you can test poorly but be a very intelligent high functioning person . I have had Stroud #1 since the bowls , strictly because Young is too damn small . I trust Levis and Richardson very little .
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