2023 Optomism...so far

[tarlhawk]

The biggest knock against our team last year (even though we exceeded expectations that made us super underdogs) was the vulnerability of our run defense...which hurt our team in numerous offense killing side effects ...as time of possession kept our explosive offense on the sidelines and wore down our defensive "big boys" and exploited our lack of rotational depth at the point of attack.


How do we raise our potential to reduce the bludgioning of opponents running attacks?

The obvious approach is obtaining a "monster of the midway"(DT/NT) ...the size and strength to demand double teaming (usually from a mauling guard *325-340 lbs* coupled with an athletic 300# plus center) without allowing the 2nd man to shed his block and get to our 2nd level(LB).

Al Woods set a good example. Keeping the 2nd man occupied is what allows the nearest LB to be "clean" resulting in the ability for a LB to shoot the open gap and "explode" the running play before the RB can burst into a big play.

Old style LB used to be athletic 250LB plus assassins usually mismatched against plodding guards around 30 lbs heavier...now the NFL guards are more athletic and 60 lbs heavier.

If your LB is fast and rangy he probably is 220-230lbs and risks being "swallowed up" or "bounced" out of the way from almost a 100 lb mismatch. The heavier the mismatch or the better the O-line is athletically and the ability for the LB to "shed" being blocked/grabbed is taken away. This disadvantage is magnified if the scheme employs a "light box" (7 or less defenders at LB/LOS depth).

Our front 7 defensive base on first down will probably be Edge/OLB Uchenna Nwosu...(3T)Dre'Mont Jones...(NT)Cam Young...(5T) Jarran Reed...Edge/OLB Derick Hall...Off/ILB Bobby Wagner and Off/ILB Devin Bush. We have quality depth/rotation at Edge/OLB with Boye Mafe/Darryl Taylor...but still weak/hazy on Interior rotation options perhaps a 4 man front using Nwosu/Reed/Mike Morris/Hall or Mafe. An UDFA "breakthru" might help till Bryan Mone can return from injury.


Perhaps our OFFENSE can "rescue" our defense. A strong running game coupled with a 3rd down multi-headed receiving options can gobble up time of possession and keep the chains moving. Our other option is a "quick strike" approach which "piles up the points" forcing the opponents offense to abandon/limit its rushing options.

Our Offense has the balance to force mismatches across the field for a full range of down/yardage situations. Shane Waldron has many more "Bullets" to spray the opposing defense with... akin to trading a "shot gun for an AK-47".

1) Our receiving depth is crazy deep....even beyond the addition of Jaxon Smith-Njigba to DK and Lockett!
Dareke Young is an athletic freak on his own rights...elite RAS (Relative Athletic Score) ratings that are only beginning to translate into on the field performance.

Dee Eskridge faces returning competition (Cody Thompson/Cade Johnson) and numerous challenges from our targeted UDFA WR (Jake Bobo *UCLA/Matt Landers *Arkansas and CJ Johnson *East Carolina)

2) Elusive TE seam route targets in Noah Fant and an emerging Colby Parkinson.

3) Untapped curl/flat routes featuring Walker/Charbonnet ...with probably Ken McIntosh the best "hands" /RB route tree option once he demonstrates QB Pass Pro skills to get him on the field during 3rd down snaps. Go Hawks

[tarlhawk]

The good news (with the 49ers as our targeted divisional rival) is they lost two pro bowlers from their interior O-Line (Lakin Tomlinson*G and Alex Mack*C) Perhaps we will gain an edge for our D-Line to attack...

[Old but Slow]

Nice analysis. I would add Myles Adams to the interior DL situation. He seemed to become more effective as the season went on. He provides interior pass pressure and is getting stronger against the run. It makes some sense to look at players in their third year as they become stronger and can act without needing to think so much. Adams is one I am looking at, as well as Parkinson and Taylor. All 3 of these were improving at the end of the season, and any or all could break out this time.

[RiverDog]

It's probably not the appropriate thread to post this information as it's anything but optimistic, but Jamal Adams may not be ready for training camp:

Seahawks safety Jamal Adams suffered a torn quad in Week One that forced him to miss the rest of the 2022 season, and the team isn’t sure how soon Adams will be back to full speed.

Seattle General Manager John Schneider told Rich Eisen that Adams is working hard at rehabbing the injury, but might not be on the field for training camp.

“He’s doing well. The company answer is that we don’t know exactly the timeline. Very bad injury, very unfortunate for Jamal,” Schneider said. “He’s had two years now where he’s been banged up. We want to be really careful with his progression, so training camp I’m just not sure. We’ll see where he is when he comes in for the OTAs.”

Through three seasons as a Seahawk, Adams has played in 25 games and missed 25 games. He has played well at times when healthy, but he hasn’t had the kind of impact the Seahawks were hoping for when they traded two first-round draft picks for him and signed him to a lucrative contract extension. This year the Seahawks hope Adams can get healthy and stay healthy.

Gotta love the spin JS puts on the situation. In one breath he says Adams is "doing well" and in the next he says "we don't know the exact timeline" and "...training camp I'm just not sure." If he's not sure, then how does he know that he's "doing well"?

[Old but Slow]

There is part of me that just wants Jamal Adams to disappear, but at the same time it would be great if he was a big contributor to the defense this season. The time has passed for pissing and moaning about what we paid for him, and we have to look to what is best for the team. If he balls out and makes our defense better, then we can feel some measure of justification, but if he continues to be injured and ineffective, then we can just file him away with the Aaron Currys of the past.

Personally, I would like to see us get some value from him.

[RiverDog]

There is part of me that just wants Jamal Adams to disappear, but at the same time it would be great if he was a big contributor to the defense this season. The time has passed for pissing and moaning about what we paid for him, and we have to look to what is best for the team. If he balls out and makes our defense better, then we can feel some measure of justification, but if he continues to be injured and ineffective, then we can just file him away with the Aaron Currys of the past.

Personally, I would like to see us get some value from him.

I'm not sure if Adams was/is the best player for us or not. I actually liked Ryan Neal last year and felt he was a better safety for what we wanted to do than Adams was. He's a liability in pass coverage, took bad angles tracking down running backs, a one trick pony. We have to create a position for him in order for him to excel, and that may not result the best overall defense for the team.

At this point, he's not worth much for a trade as not only has he such a bad injury history and lackluster performance, he has a huge contract that we'd have to eat a big portion of. We might as well give him one more shot, and if he doesn't perform, just cut bait and move on.

[tarlhawk]

I'm not sure if Adams was/is the best player for us or not. I actually liked Ryan Neal last year and felt he was a better safety for what we wanted to do than Adams was. He's a liability in pass coverage, took bad angles tracking down running backs, a one trick pony. We have to create a position for him in order for him to excel, and that may not result the best overall defense for the team.

At this point, he's not worth much for a trade as not only has he such a bad injury history and lackluster performance,...

Are you basing your comments on his last full year 12 out of 17 games played? (2021) Are you referencing a few games/plays ?? In 2021 Quandre Diggs who plays his heart out allowed 65.9 % completion rate while making 94 tackles (in 17 starts) and missing 11 (10.5% miss tackle rate). Ryan Neal with same enthusiasm allowed 72.4% completion rate while making 49 tackles (limited to 5 starts and played in 16 games) while missing 4 (7.5% miss tackle rate). Jamal Adams started 12 out of 12 games and allowed 58.8% completion rate while making 87 tackles while missing 7 (7.4% miss tackle rate) so how can it be told as "bad" Adams...yet good Diggs/Neal? when singling out pass coverage and ability to tackle?? *keep away from the curtain*

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure if Adams was/is the best player for us or not. I actually liked Ryan Neal last year and felt he was a better safety for what we wanted to do than Adams was. He's a liability in pass coverage, took bad angles tracking down running backs, a one trick pony. We have to create a position for him in order for him to excel, and that may not result the best overall defense for the team.

At this point, he's not worth much for a trade as not only has he such a bad injury history and lackluster performance,...

Are you basing your comments on his last full year 12 out of 17 games played? (2021) Are you referencing a few games/plays ?? In 2021 Quandre Diggs who plays his heart out allowed 65.9 % completion rate while making 94 tackles (in 17 starts) and missing 11 (10.5% miss tackle rate). Ryan Neal with same enthusiasm allowed 72.4% completion rate while making 49 tackles (limited to 5 starts and played in 16 games) while missing 4 (7.5% miss tackle rate). Jamal Adams started 12 out of 12 games and allowed 58.8% completion rate while making 87 tackles while missing 7 (7.4% miss tackle rate) so how can it be told as "bad" Adams...yet good Diggs/Neal? when singling out pass coverage and ability to tackle?? *keep away from the curtain*

I'm basing my comments off Adam's entire body of work as a Seahawk. He's never been strong in coverage, and I'm not the only one that harbors that opinion. Here's what Jake Heaps had to say about him in 2021:

“What’s been disappointing is that he (Adams) is not taking that step forward in coverage that everybody was anticipating,” Heaps said.

For all the great things Adams did on the field for Seattle last year, pass coverage was an area he did not excel at. That’s proving to be the case once again in 2021, Heaps said.

“Jamal Adams is extremely talented. He is athletic. It is not that he’s stiff, it’s not that he doesn’t have good hips or that he doesn’t have the speed,” Heaps said. “He’s got all those things. But the feel, it’s really what it comes down to.”

https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1517228/ ... him-right/

There's a video embedded in that link that you might want to take a peek at.

I'm not sure where you're getting your stats on completion percentage (PFF maybe), but they sure don't correspond to what I've seen with my own eyes. I'm not sure how relevant completion percentages against a DB are. Are they as relevant in a zone as they are in man? Or are we comparing apples to oranges depending on what kind of coverage they're in? I'm not discounting your numbers or being a smart Alec, it's an honest question. I haven't seen completion percentages being used to rate the play of defensive backs and I might not be familiar with the new way of quantifying player performance, ie analytics.

And it's not just tackles I'm talking about. I've seen occasions, Derrick Henry's run comes to mind, where Adams took a poor angle. I didn't get the same impression with Neal.

[tarlhawk]

I'm not sure where you're getting your stats on completion percentage (PFF maybe), but they sure don't correspond to what I've seen with my own eyes. I'm not sure how relevant completion percentages against a DB are. Are they as relevant in a zone as they are in man?

And it's not just tackles I'm talking about. I've seen occasions, Derrick Henry's run comes to mind, where Adams took a poor angle. I didn't get the same impression with Neal.

The importance is your impression...sorry but I don't see Jake Heaps as a serious analyst (I watched him and listened to him on 710AM but as a fan who then looks further into what is being said) The stats I use are from Pro Football Reference and they get a stat feed from statheads I think. The completion % is available when you sort by using advanced stats which became available in 2018 ( a year after Kam Chancellors forced retirement) but in 2018 with McDougald at SS he allowed 76.7% completion rate with 78 tackles with 7 missed for 8.2% miss tackle rate. When a healthy Adams is on the field you see him explode with a toughness that fires up his team mates...Ryan Neal plays with "juice" but Adams can seriously intimidate an opponent.

In 2020 J.Adams allowed 35 catches out of 45 thrown his way (77.8%) allowing a QB rating of 104.7...improving in 2021 being played further off the line of scrimmage he allowed 30 out pf 51 (58.8 %) and a QB rating of 93.8 with 2 interceptions and 5 PD (passes defensed) so definite improvement...Kam had 1/2/2/0 interceptions and 6/4/8/2 PD from 2014/15/16/17...Kam and Jamal are "hammers"...tone setters who play a big role in rush defense when healthy. Injuries always rob "what if " speculations...now we'll get to see another "hammer" in our secondary (Spoon)who happens to play corner not safety ...

[Aseahawkfan]

Whenever I think about what we could have had with the two first round picks we gave up for Jamal Adams, I get irritated.

[RiverDog]

The importance is your impression...sorry but I don't see Jake Heaps as a serious analyst (I watched him and listened to him on 710AM but as a fan who then looks further into what is being said) The stats I use are from Pro Football Reference and they get a stat feed from statheads I think. The completion % is available when you sort by using advanced stats which became available in 2018 ( a year after Kam Chancellors forced retirement) but in 2018 with McDougald at SS he allowed 76.7% completion rate with 78 tackles with 7 missed for 8.2% miss tackle rate. When a healthy Adams is on the field you see him explode with a toughness that fires up his team mates...Ryan Neal plays with "juice" but Adams can seriously intimidate an opponent.

In 2020 J.Adams allowed 35 catches out of 45 thrown his way (77.8%) allowing a QB rating of 104.7...improving in 2021 being played further off the line of scrimmage he allowed 30 out pf 51 (58.8 %) and a QB rating of 93.8 with 2 interceptions and 5 PD (passes defensed) so definite improvement...Kam had 1/2/2/0 interceptions and 6/4/8/2 PD from 2014/15/16/17...Kam and Jamal are "hammers"...tone setters who play a big role in rush defense when healthy. Injuries always rob "what if " speculations...now we'll get to see another "hammer" in our secondary (Spoon)who happens to play corner not safety ...

It's more than just Jake Heaps that have railed about Adams' pass coverage liabilities:

A large portion of the criticism levied against Jamal Adams last season related to his pass coverage — which should be paramount in any DB’s skillset. While it feels a bit overly critical to poke holes in the game of a player who set the single season sack-record for DBs last season, it is fair to acknowledge the well-documented — albeit a bit overblown — coverage struggles that plagued Adams in 2020.

But with this knowledge, we are also aware that Adams has tendencies that may sometimes lead to mistakes in coverage, blown assignments, or schematic breakdowns that yield chunk plays to the opposing offense.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2021/8/2/225 ... on-of-boom

And from here:

Adams has struggled in coverage all season, and even in the one area where he has previously been effective — blitzing from the safety position — he’s been a non-factor so far this season. In Thursday night’s loss to the Rams (October of 2021), Adams got lost in the secondary and failed to make a play as Rams quarterback Matthew Stafford hit DeSean Jackson for a 68-yard catch.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... y-one-guy/

The criticism is out there, and it's not limited to one or two analysts. I'm surprised that you're denying it.

The other thing that supports this observation is that Adams has been part of a secondary that contributed to two of the worst pass defenses we've ever fielded as we ranked 31st in pass defense in both 2020 and 2021. Last year, with Adams out for nearly the entire season after being injured in our first game, our pass defense suddenly jumped to a very respectable 13th. Was it just a random coincidence? Maybe. There were obviously several factors that contributed to this huge improvement. But the undeniable fact is that we were much better in pass defense with Adams out and Neal playing in his spot.

[tarlhawk]

Amazing how many fans will jump on a guy who irritates them because "only his coach and GM" highly value him. Penny bashing almost compares to the consistent Adams bashing that occurs often...Penny only "cost" us one 1rst rd pick which is why he falls short of the criticism heaped on Adams. But Jamal Adams is such an "easy mark" for a disgruntled fan who sees no "value"...thank goodness ET wasn't plagued by injuries. Jamal Adams has been plagued with serious injuries that would make a lesser man quit and laugh his way to the bank...but you never hear from his team mates anything but admiration for his tenacity and strong vocal leadership.

Character is a trait seldom admired in these days of pampered athletes yet that is the type of team our upper management highly values often referring to it as "grit". Empathy for sports athletes is blighted by a fans knowledge of what he earns...our country has even feasted lately on "hating the rich" as if to punish those who thrived in a country blessed with opportunity. I'm beginning to digress...I know as an appreciative fan who only offers opinion not insight that Jamal Adams will be a huge difference maker if his athleticism hasn't been stolen by serious injury.
Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

It's amazing the lengths fans will go to defend a player that isn't a good fit or not very good/over hyped.
I'm sorry, but Adams has been a huge disappointment in his abilities. We expected a Pro Bowl type player at the least, but he can't cover well, can't follow the ball in the air well, is sometimes too aggressive causing him to take bad angles for tackles and still thinks he's the 'best in the nation'. That's just from a player performance perspective. What we gave up for him just adds to the disappointment but doesn't mean that the other problems with his game don't exist or are exaggerated.

[RiverDog]

Amazing how many fans will jump on a guy who irritates them because "only his coach and GM" highly value him. Penny bashing almost compares to the consistent Adams bashing that occurs often...Penny only "cost" us one 1rst rd pick which is why he falls short of the criticism heaped on Adams. But Jamal Adams is such an "easy mark" for a disgruntled fan who sees no "value"...thank goodness ET wasn't plagued by injuries. Jamal Adams has been plagued with serious injuries that would make a lesser man quit and laugh his way to the bank...but you never hear from his team mates anything but admiration for his tenacity and strong vocal leadership.

Character is a trait seldom admired in these days of pampered athletes yet that is the type of team our upper management highly values often referring to it as "grit". Empathy for sports athletes is blighted by a fans knowledge of what he earns...our country has even feasted lately on "hating the rich" as if to punish those who thrived in a country blessed with opportunity. I'm beginning to digress...I know as an appreciative fan who only offers opinion not insight that Jamal Adams will be a huge difference maker if his athleticism hasn't been stolen by serious injury.
Go Hawks

I have never once posted anything that would suggest that Adams is 'irritating' me, which implies that I have a personal dislike for him or that I question his character. To the contrary, all I've ever I've said about Jamal Adams' character is that all indications are that he's a great locker room guy and very team orientated. My remarks are all about what he produces on the field. The comments I posted I went to great lengths to qualify by using quotes from other noted analysts and used statistical references to show that I wasn't just this disgruntled fan hell bent on "bashing" him, yet that's what I get accused of.

[RiverDog]

It's amazing the lengths fans will go to defend a player that isn't a good fit or not very good/over hyped.
I'm sorry, but Adams has been a huge disappointment in his abilities. We expected a Pro Bowl type player at the least, but he can't cover well, can't follow the ball in the air well, is sometimes too aggressive causing him to take bad angles for tackles and still thinks he's the 'best in the nation'. That's just from a player performance perspective. What we gave up for him just adds to the disappointment but doesn't mean that the other problems with his game don't exist or are exaggerated.

At the risk of getting accused of "bashing" Adams again, I want to add that Adams just isn't a ball hawk. During his tenure with us, he has 2 interceptions, 1 forced fumble, and no fumble recoveries. We've seen deflected passes bounce off his face mask, seen him drop what should have been an easy interception. Maybe it's just my perception, but he doesn't seem to me to have a nose for the football.

[tarlhawk]

RD you respond as if I singled you out but my reference was to fans at large on various sites I frequent. If I "target" an individual's opinion for response I will do it in the form of using a quoted response...I wasn't responding to any quote of yours. As for NH I value your opinions but view them as observations for the most part when taken in context. Good thing Diggs has many other picks to absorb the "easy" pick that slipped thru his failed "close to body" grab that he found embarassing. I already pointed out that Kam wasn't big on picks...he earned respect with sensational bone jarring tackles that fire up a sideline full of team mates...Jamal has had his own flashes (the modest beginnings of a "punisher" highlight reel). Too bad his injury prevented him from many designed schemes to "maximize" his talent in 2022...Ryan Neal reaped the benefits of staying healthy and aggressive at a fraction of the cost. Feel free to label me as if that alone makes my opinion invalid. As a fan I appreciate the players our management pursues. Only the Defensive coaches truly know any failed ability for a given played scheme. You have to understand the coverage assignments for the particular scheme called...not just the fan's eyeball to truly place blame. When I have an opinion I feel fully capable of defending it without getting personal. As for on the field performance in being a tone setter there are other ways than ball skills to make a difference that impacts a games outcome. Go Hawks

[RiverDog]

RD you respond as if I singled you out but my reference was to fans at large on various sites I frequent. If I "target" an individual's opinion for response I will do it in the form of using a quoted response...I wasn't responding to any quote of yours. As for NH I value your opinions but view them as observations for the most part when taken in context. Good thing Diggs has many other picks to absorb the "easy" pick that slipped thru his failed "close to body" grab that he found embarassing. I already pointed out that Kam wasn't big on picks...he earned respect with sensational bone jarring tackles that fire up a sideline full of team mates...Jamal has had his own flashes (the modest beginnings of a "punisher" highlight reel). Too bad his injury prevented him from many designed schemes to "maximize" his talent in 2022...Ryan Neal reaped the benefits of staying healthy and aggressive at a fraction of the cost. Feel free to label me as if that alone makes my opinion invalid. As a fan I appreciate the players our management pursues. Only the Defensive coaches truly know any failed ability for a given played scheme. You have to understand the coverage assignments for the particular scheme called...not just the fan's eyeball to truly place blame. When I have an opinion I feel fully capable of defending it without getting personal. As for on the field performance in being a tone setter there are other ways than ball skills to make a difference that impacts a games outcome. Go Hawks

You started out by giving a statistical analysis of Adams' play, and when I responded with some stats/facts/quotes of my own, you replied with a rather subjective argument about disgruntled fans that were also against spending a first-round pick on Penny, which happens to include Yours Truly, so it was reasonable to conclude that if not responding directly to me, that you were at least grouping me in with those disgruntled fans. And while I didn't take it personally as I've come to know you as a respected member of our family that doesn't get into trash talking with other posters, I did interpret it as being a little snarky. Thanks for clearing that up.

Kam Chancellor was a quite different player than Adams. Chancellor was great in coverage, was excellent at standing up tight ends and not letting them get out into their routes. He seldom blitz, and as you noted, he was one of the hardest hitters ever to wear a Seahawks uniform. Adams struggles in coverage and isn't known for his bone jarring tackles, but unlike Kam, he's an extremely gifted pass rusher.

Adams will be one of the story lines to play out this season, but it's not starting out really well with our GM indicating that he might not be ready to go by training camp. By the time the whistle blows in September, Adams will not have played a full game for two years, so it's important for him to get the pads on as soon as he's able to as there's bound to be a lot of rust.

[tarlhawk]

The criticism is out there, and it's not limited to one or two analysts. I'm surprised that you're denying it.

The other thing that supports this observation is that Adams has been part of a secondary that contributed to two of the worst pass defenses we've ever fielded as we ranked 31st in pass defense in both 2020 and 2021. Last year, with Adams out for nearly the entire season after being injured in our first game, our pass defense suddenly jumped to a very respectable 13th. Was it just a random coincidence? Maybe. There were obviously several factors that contributed to this huge improvement. But the undeniable fact is that we were much better in pass defense with Adams out and Neal playing in his spot.

This is an actual response to your post...I'm not denying any analyst and their point of view but I take it in the context that they are paid for their analytical view which in the end is a salary weighted opinion. If they were real experts why would they waste their time in a profession that pays less for their expertise and more for their ability to influence/persuade? As stated earlier it would take "insider" knowledge from our defensive coaches to know how well Jamal Adams performs his coverage assignments and "fits" the scheme coverage called on any given play. Perhaps an in depth film study by a respected "analyst with playing/coaching credentials could offer keener insight. I am not labeling you as a "basher" you take time to elucidate your opinions and seem careful in offering an informed opinion rather than a "knee-jerk" response.

Pass Defense (my opinion) seems heavily weighted by cornerbacks and scheme fit...more than safety/linebacker support. Safeties play a bigger role in explosive plays allowed whether in pass coverage or busted run plays that leak out into empty space. Your pass defense quotes reflect the stat perspective of total yards allowed by our secondary (corners and safeties with LB underneath coverage) but no context of other available stats. If your defense is suffering from excessive snaps on the field on a regular basis then it's a "duh" result. Time of possession heavily influences total defensive yardage allowed and often shares equal blame with an offenses inability to convert third downs and a defensive inability to stop 1rst downs. 3 and outs good for defense and BAD for offense. If our defense is on the field twice as much as our opponents...then other factors kick in as stamina wanes into the late qtrs and steals away psychological momentum from both sides of the ball.

Looking further (stat wise) we see a better picture...

2020 pass defense
Yds/att allowed 6.8 (ranked 17th)
Completion % allowed 66.8 (21rst)
Total yds 4560 (31rst)
TDs allowed 23 (10th)
Interceptions 14 (21rst)
1rst downs allowed 253 (32-last)
Points allowed (team stat only) 371 (15th)

2021 pass defense
Yds/att allowed 6.9 (25th)
Completion % allowed 67.3 (27th)
Total yds 4513 (31rst)
TDs allowed 24 (11th)
Interceptions 11 (25th)
1rst downs allowed 240 (32nd-last)
Points allowed (team stat only) 366 (11th)

2022 pass defense
Yds/att allowed 6.6 (18th)
Completion % allowed 62.7 (10th)
Total yds 3595 (14th)
TDs allowed 23 (15th)
Interceptions 14 (14th)
1rst downs allowed 188 (15th)
Points allowed (team stat only) 401 (25th)

Pass defense improved (more a reflection of Woolen/Jackson not an abscence of Jamal *my opinion*) yet defense undermined our offense in a hemorrhage of points allowed last year. Points given up could reflect a loss of Adams...but our team has identified our D-line as needing to be more dynamic while tweaking our schemes...steps have been taken. Go Hawks

[RiverDog]

The criticism is out there, and it's not limited to one or two analysts. I'm surprised that you're denying it.

The other thing that supports this observation is that Adams has been part of a secondary that contributed to two of the worst pass defenses we've ever fielded as we ranked 31st in pass defense in both 2020 and 2021. Last year, with Adams out for nearly the entire season after being injured in our first game, our pass defense suddenly jumped to a very respectable 13th. Was it just a random coincidence? Maybe. There were obviously several factors that contributed to this huge improvement. But the undeniable fact is that we were much better in pass defense with Adams out and Neal playing in his spot.

This is an actual response to your post...I'm not denying any analyst and their point of view but I take it in the context that they are paid for their analytical view which in the end is a salary weighted opinion. If they were real experts why would they waste their time in a profession that pays less for their expertise and more for their ability to influence/persuade? As stated earlier it would take "insider" knowledge from our defensive coaches to know how well Jamal Adams performs his coverage assignments and "fits" the scheme coverage called on any given play. Perhaps an in depth film study by a respected "analyst with playing/coaching credentials could offer keener insight. I am not labeling you as a "basher" you take time to elucidate your opinions and seem careful in offering an informed opinion rather than a "knee-jerk" response.

Pass Defense (my opinion) seems heavily weighted by cornerbacks and scheme fit...more than safety/linebacker support. Safeties play a bigger role in explosive plays allowed whether in pass coverage or busted run plays that leak out into empty space. Your pass defense quotes reflect the stat perspective of total yards allowed by our secondary (corners and safeties with LB underneath coverage) but no context of other available stats. If your defense is suffering from excessive snaps on the field on a regular basis then it's a "duh" result. Time of possession heavily influences total defensive yardage allowed and often shares equal blame with an offenses inability to convert third downs and a defensive inability to stop 1rst downs. 3 and outs good for defense and BAD for offense. If our defense is on the field twice as much as our opponents...then other factors kick in as stamina wanes into the late qtrs and steals away psychological momentum from both sides of the ball.

Looking further (stat wise) we see a better picture...

2020 pass defense
Yds/att allowed 6.8 (ranked 17th)
Completion % allowed 66.8 (21rst)
Total yds 4560 (31rst)
TDs allowed 23 (10th)
Interceptions 14 (21rst)
1rst downs allowed 253 (32-last)
Points allowed (team stat only) 371 (15th)

2021 pass defense
Yds/att allowed 6.9 (25th)
Completion % allowed 67.3 (27th)
Total yds 4513 (31rst)
TDs allowed 24 (11th)
Interceptions 11 (25th)
1rst downs allowed 240 (32nd-last)
Points allowed (team stat only) 366 (11th)

2022 pass defense
Yds/att allowed 6.6 (18th)
Completion % allowed 62.7 (10th)
Total yds 3595 (14th)
TDs allowed 23 (15th)
Interceptions 14 (14th)
1rst downs allowed 188 (15th)
Points allowed (team stat only) 401 (25th)

Pass defense improved (more a reflection of Woolen/Jackson not an abscence of Jamal *my opinion*) yet defense undermined our offense in a hemorrhage of points allowed last year. Points given up could reflect a loss of Adams...but our team has identified our D-line as needing to be more dynamic while tweaking our schemes...steps have been taken. Go Hawks

Adams struggles in coverage is more than just a paid analyst's opinion and is to the point where it qualifies as common knowledge. I wasn't just going off the talking head's opinions, I was re-iterating what my own eyes saw along with opinions of a few fans, including a couple in here like North Hawk of whom I have a lot of respect for, that have seen the same thing.

Adams himself has gotten real defensive about it:

Seattle Seahawks safety Jamal Adams is going into Week 3’s matchup against his hometown team, the Dallas Cowboys, with a chip on his shoulder. Adams alleges that a few Dallas players privately commented that he does not fare too well in coverage.

“I’ve seen a couple things, they said I struggle in coverage, so I can’t wait,” Adams said Thursday. “I got a little text from one of my buddies back home. He has the inside scoop on that. So, looking forward to it.”

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2020/ ... -coverage/

I've already acknowledged that there are a lot of factors that enter into total passing yards allowed, and we can argue until the horses come home as to the most likely cause for the improvement. But I do think that there is at least some connection to Adams' absence and our rebounding from a very dismal performance from the previous two seasons when he was in our lineup.

[tarlhawk]

I've already acknowledged that there are a lot of factors that enter into total passing yards allowed, and we can argue until the horses come home as to the most likely cause for the improvement.

Agreed on no need to further argue on reason for improvement in pass defense...instead another angle to consider...new coaching influence!

Karl Scott has been seen as a respected young coach upon his arrival last year and his coaching position has now been elevated to Defensive Passing Game Coordinator / Defensive Backs (Experience: 2 years) Karl is joined this year by the arrival of Roy Anderson who joined the Seahawks staff as secondary coach on March 15, 2023, following three seasons (2020-22) as the Minnesota Vikings assistant defensive backs/safeties coach....and perhaps DeShawn Shead who enters his first season as assistant defensive backs after joining Seattle as defensive assistant/defensive backs on February 24, 2021, and an eight-year career in the NFL (Seattle Seahawks, 2012-17; Detroit Lions, 2018; New Orleans Saints, 2019). Shead was a part of Seattle's Super Bowl XLVIII-winning team during the 2013 season.

[RiverDog]

I've already acknowledged that there are a lot of factors that enter into total passing yards allowed, and we can argue until the horses come home as to the most likely cause for the improvement.

Agreed on no need to further argue on reason for improvement in pass defense...instead another angle to consider...new coaching influence!

Karl Scott has been seen as a respected young coach upon his arrival last year and his coaching position has now been elevated to Defensive Passing Game Coordinator / Defensive Backs (Experience: 2 years) Karl is joined this year by the arrival of Roy Anderson who joined the Seahawks staff as secondary coach on March 15, 2023, following three seasons (2020-22) as the Minnesota Vikings assistant defensive backs/safeties coach....and perhaps DeShawn Shead who enters his first season as assistant defensive backs after joining Seattle as defensive assistant/defensive backs on February 24, 2021, and an eight-year career in the NFL (Seattle Seahawks, 2012-17; Detroit Lions, 2018; New Orleans Saints, 2019). Shead was a part of Seattle's Super Bowl XLVIII-winning team during the 2013 season.

Good point on the coaching changes.

Another angle is the demise of some of our opponents, especially the Rams' 2022 face plant after having won the Lombardi the season before. Not having to face Mathew Stafford, Cooper Kupp, and Robert Woods had to have helped some. The Cards did a similar belly flop, going from 11-6 in 2021 to 4-13 last season.

We'll see how it goes this season. With Woolen being a huge, pleasant surprise and our drafting arguably the best cornerback in the draft class, we should improve even more regardless of Adams's fate. Now, if we can just stop the run.

[Old but Slow]

The problem with Adams, as I see it, is not how good or bad he is. The problem is the price. No safety is worth what we gave up to get him...none.

That said, any value we can get from the guy will be greatly appreciated. It is not the player's decision to pay that kind of price, that is a front office choice, and Adams is in a situation where nothing he can do will fully justify what was paid. If he plays well, great; if he is traded (impossible); or even if he is just cut to recover some cap space, great; but if he plays poorly or is perpetually injured, sad.

Adams is in a tough situation. He likely did not want to be injured, and anything he accomplishes on the field will not be enough to get the sour taste out of the mouths of fans. Maybe if he plays at an all pro level he can gain some respect. I would not count on it.

[RiverDog]

The problem with Adams, as I see it, is not how good or bad he is. The problem is the price. No safety is worth what we gave up to get him...none.

That said, any value we can get from the guy will be greatly appreciated. It is not the player's decision to pay that kind of price, that is a front office choice, and Adams is in a situation where nothing he can do will fully justify what was paid. If he plays well, great; if he is traded (impossible); or even if he is just cut to recover some cap space, great; but if he plays poorly or is perpetually injured, sad.

Adams is in a tough situation. He likely did not want to be injured, and anything he accomplishes on the field will not be enough to get the sour taste out of the mouths of fans. Maybe if he plays at an all pro level he can gain some respect. I would not count on it.

Nice post, old man!

And keep in mind that it's not just Adams that we're paying a boatload for. Our other safety, Quandre Diggs, is also hauling in the bucks. Base salary, they are by far our two top paid players on the team and their combined cap number is over $36M or 16% of our cap space for two safeties.

I agree with you about Adams being in an almost no-win situation with us fans. The only way he can redeem himself is to both play at an All Pro level and for the team to go deep into the playoffs. It's too bad because all indications are that he's been a great teammate and team player.

[Aseahawkfan]

Jamal Adams is a bust so far, wasted resources. I'm not going to hold my breath he comes as a big contributor. His body looks done as far as playing at a high level with any consistency.

[Hawktawk]

Jamal Adams is a bust so far, wasted resources. I'm not going to hold my breath he comes as a big contributor. His body looks done as far as playing at a high level with any consistency.

Jamaal Adams set a record for sacks his first year . In his second he was improving with 2 picks in 21 prior to his shoulder injury . In his only half vs Denver he was an explosive disrupter shot out of a cannon on Wilson on the play he was hurt on . Kinda like Penny you just never know . I think if both those guys had been healthy last 3 years it would be a different conversation . I don’t think anyone would be talking about first round picks . I don’t see him coming back with the same explosion . Let’s see.
I’m optimistic about the year . We will be better on offense for sure . I think and hope we are on defense . 11-6 west champs

[RiverDog]

Jamal Adams is a bust so far, wasted resources. I'm not going to hold my breath he comes as a big contributor. His body looks done as far as playing at a high level with any consistency.

Jamaal Adams set a record for sacks his first year . In his second he was improving with 2 picks in 21 prior to his shoulder injury . In his only half vs Denver he was an explosive disrupter shot out of a cannon on Wilson on the play he was hurt on . Kinda like Penny you just never know . I think if both those guys had been healthy last 3 years it would be a different conversation . I don’t think anyone would be talking about first round picks . I don’t see him coming back with the same explosion . Let’s see.
I’m optimistic about the year . We will be better on offense for sure . I think and hope we are on defense . 11-6 west champs

You're attempting to put lipstick on a pig. Adams did set a record for sacks in 2020 with 9.5 sacks, a feat made even more impressive as he did it in just 12 games, but in the same number of games in 2021, he had zero sacks. Obviously, offenses got wise to him, and when he was threatening to blitz, they either audibled out of the play or accounted for him. Add to that his well-documented coverage woes, his tendency to take bad angles on running backs, and his lack of ball skills, Adams regressed from what he had achieved in 2020.

As ASF said, at this point, Adams is a bust, both in terms of injuries and on field performance when he's been healthy. That's not hate or disgruntlement, it's just a plain fact that can't be spun. Maybe he can get it turned around this season and at least partially fulfill the expectations we were given when he was traded for, but with such a long, arduous recovery from his latest injury and after hearing JS's assessment, I wouldn't hold my breath.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

His 9.5 sack season didn’t mean a whole lot. It wasn’t sustainable and that’s not what you want a safety to do on the reg. He needs to be healthy and contribute. Needs to win more than he loses in pass defense for the money he’s paid. He’ll have to have a hell of season this year to make it worth it.

[RiverDog]

His 9.5 sack season didn’t mean a whole lot. It wasn’t sustainable and that’s not what you want a safety to do on the reg. He needs to be healthy and contribute. Needs to win more than he loses in pass defense for the money he’s paid. He’ll have to have a hell of season this year to make it worth it.

I agree on both counts. If you're biggest sack artist is your safety, then your defense is in trouble. Unlike getting sacks from rushing 4, you have to sacrifice something in order to get pressure by blitzing a safety.

It's going to take an All Pro/DPOY candidate type of season out of Adams to justify the trade and what we're paying him. When you combine what we gave up to get him and the amount of money we're paying him, he's the most expensive player on our roster.

[Aseahawkfan]

Jamaal Adams set a record for sacks his first year . In his second he was improving with 2 picks in 21 prior to his shoulder injury . In his only half vs Denver he was an explosive disrupter shot out of a cannon on Wilson on the play he was hurt on . Kinda like Penny you just never know . I think if both those guys had been healthy last 3 years it would be a different conversation . I don’t think anyone would be talking about first round picks . I don’t see him coming back with the same explosion . Let’s see.
I’m optimistic about the year . We will be better on offense for sure . I think and hope we are on defense . 11-6 west champs

What part of if they aren't healthy they can't contribute do you keep missing? Health is part of the NFL equation. You don't help if you aren't on the field no matter how good you are.

That's just the hard truth of how the NFL works.

Part of the reason he's in the state he is now is because we used him too often to rush the passer having him break himself trying to be a pass rusher against dudes that outweigh him by a 100 lbs. It's a bad strategy that ruins careers. You don't send 200 lb. safeties against 300 plus pound offensive linemen over and over again and expect that to go well for the 200 lb. guy's body.

[c_hawkbob]

Health has had everything to do with everything with Adams. What I saw when he was healthy is that he was a major difference maker. Don't care about stats for the position or nonstandard usage or whatever else, when he was healthy he was usually the best player on the field.

Too bad that "when healthy" qualifier had to become the dominant story of his career here (so far). I hope better for him going forward.

[Aseahawkfan]

I would still say Bobby was the best player when Jamal was here, but not by much.

Jamal being the best player was a testament to how far this defense had fallen compared to the Legion of Boom days. During the Legion of Boom days, Jamal Adams would have just been one of many stars. Our defense was so bad by the point we picked up Jamal, only Bobby could maybe claim to be the better guy on the field amongst the no names populating our defense.

[govandals]

While I'm always excited for Seahawk football, I have little optimism for 2023. I fear a big regression by Geno and the same old the defense. I listened to DC Hurtt on the radio the other day, and while he gets me fired up, I'm a see it to believe it person. The roster is better than last year but the schedule seems much tougher. The Nov/Dec run of Niners/Cowboys/Niners/Eagles is brutal and may define the season. This feels like an 8 or 9 win team to me.

Regarding Jamaal Adams, I don't see how anyone can watch his play and actually think he is any good. It's past time to cut bait with this guy.

[NorthHawk]

Geno is 50/50 to me. We'll see who we get this year and if it's the good Geno I hope he can sustain that level of play all year.
The schedule looks like it could be real tough but I wonder about the Eagles with them having lost both OC and DC as well as the Super Bowl loser curse, and who would have thought with Purdy probably on the sidelines that they could start the season with a worse QB than Garropolo.
With all of the doubts, it's why the games are played on the field and not paper, but to your point, the season could go either way. My guess is another middling result, maybe making the playoffs but one and done.
Having said that, the future looks a lot better than prior to 2022 with what looks like some quality players the last 2 drafts. Once they've all had a year or so under their belts they should be a tough out for other teams.

[Hawktawk]

While I'm always excited for Seahawk football, I have little optimism for 2023. I fear a big regression by Geno and the same old the defense. I listened to DC Hurtt on the radio the other day, and while he gets me fired up, I'm a see it to believe it person. The roster is better than last year but the schedule seems much tougher. The Nov/Dec run of Niners/Cowboys/Niners/Eagles is brutal and may define the season. This feels like an 8 or 9 win team to me.

Regarding Jamaal Adams, I don't see how anyone can watch his play and actually think he is any good. It's past time to cut bait with this guy.

Adams was a guy offenses had to account for every play . Injuries were his big story . As Bob says he’s a difference maker on the field beyond the stats . Injuries are a huge story of Pete and Johns attempts to build a roster . Adams can surely play or at least he could . I doubt he ever will be the same but they couldn’t afford to just release him. Gotta hope he comes back .

Why the pessimism on Geno ? Last I checked he fed his doubters some crow last year and had about 50 million reasons to do it again . Everyone worried about a few bad games second half . Last I saw of Geno he had a halftime lead on SF strictly due to him . He had it inside their 10 with 2 minutes left in the third with a chance to tie . 2 incompletions and a qbr of 139. Then a flurry of tick tack penalties putting us far behind the sticks . A sack fumble and down the tubes you go .

The next day Geno was pumping iron in the gymn . Probably not a lot of guys doing that after what the 9er pass rush did to him . I think he’s well aware of history of 1 and done wonders and isn’t planning to be one . Besides with Drew signed Geno isn’t Russ with a Lombardi and 9 years of performing . I don’t think he’s got cart Blanche to play like crap very long . They like their UDFA big lefty too.

[Rambo2014]

OPTOMISM LOL

That will not last long as it looks like the rams will be teaching the Hawks football in the very first game. We will be your daddy and the ones that expose the fraud.

GO RAMS

[RiverDog]

While I'm always excited for Seahawk football, I have little optimism for 2023. I fear a big regression by Geno and the same old the defense. I listened to DC Hurtt on the radio the other day, and while he gets me fired up, I'm a see it to believe it person. The roster is better than last year but the schedule seems much tougher. The Nov/Dec run of Niners/Cowboys/Niners/Eagles is brutal and may define the season. This feels like an 8 or 9 win team to me.

Regarding Jamaal Adams, I don't see how anyone can watch his play and actually think he is any good. It's past time to cut bait with this guy.

Adams was a guy offenses had to account for every play.

That's simply not true. Very few if any defensive player has to be accounted for on every play. For example, they don't have to account for a safety if they have a quarterback sneak called, now do they?

The only time offenses had to 'account' for Adams is when he was at the LOS threatening to blitz and they had a passing play or running play to his side called, and once that started happening with regularity, Adams sack numbers took a nosedive, going from 9.5 in one year to zero the next.

[NorthHawk]

The doubts about Geno is the 2nd half of the year was what we expected from the start. His performance tailed off quite a bit and he was the beneficiary of more than the average number of dropped INTs.
So which Geno will we get - the first half, or the second half season? That's what's causing the doubt.
Long term, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking the first half season was the best we will ever see from Geno and I doubt it's enough to win a SB. I think the FO thinks the same way because they didn't lock him up and pay him like a top QB and gave him a contract that has some easy outs should we have drafted one of the top QBs in the last draft.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Part of Geno's issue was getting behind. He's not going to throw you back into contention once down too far. He needs a balanced offense to succeed. If Seattle can't get off the field like last season, Geno will be in more of those throwing from behind situations.

He could potentially be good enough to win you a Super Bowl with the huge caveat that the rest of the team has to be very good a la Jimmy G and the 49ers (yeah, they didn't win but they got there). I think the front office is reluctant to give a big, long term contract to a 32 year old quarterback; it's not a lack of faith in his ability. He'll get his shot while his contract lasts, and that's it; the out in the contract was a prudent move as well. I think they believe can compete with Smith now and that they need to get the QBOTF.

[tarlhawk]

The doubts about Geno is the 2nd half of the year was what we expected from the start. His performance tailed off quite a bit and he was the beneficiary of more than the average number of dropped INTs.
So which Geno will we get - the first half, or the second half season? That's what's causing the doubt.
Long term, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking the first half season was the best we will ever see from Geno and I doubt it's enough to win a SB. I think the FO thinks the same way because they didn't lock him up and pay him like a top QB and gave him a contract that has some easy outs should we have drafted one of the top QBs in the last draft.

Perhaps? ...but we have now improved upon the many weapons we gave Geno last year with even more explosive potential. An effective Smith-Njigba should translate to even more coverage nightmares for our opponents defense with DK and Lockett demanding the respect even more. WR Coach SanJay Lal must be smiling as Shane Waldron expands our playbook. Our O-line can only improve in run blocking as we emerge with newly added pieces to our O-line interior.

Kenneth Walker III can only benefit with more burst options into cleared space. Rotating in Charbonnet doesn't allow a defense any rest. Once McIntosh claims the 3rd down pass pro...flat/curl route specialist...the RB unit as a whole will allow Geno even more options.

Geno's 2nd half drop-off...I suspect a combination of our opponents film study on our revealed playbook and the wear down of a grinding 17 game schedule on many of our rookies in starting roles played a hand. So how did our team respond? Geno has a highly upgraded Offense to deploy in Waldron's expanding spread offense...potential exists that even if a Defense knows our play tendencies from film study...the room for them to adjust becomes more hampered. Go Hawks

[Aseahawkfan]

That's simply not true. Very few if any defensive player has to be accounted for on every play. For example, they don't have to account for a safety if they have a quarterback sneak called, now do they?

The only time offenses had to 'account' for Adams is when he was at the LOS threatening to blitz and they had a passing play or running play to his side called, and once that started happening with regularity, Adams sack numbers took a nosedive, going from 9.5 in one year to zero the next.

I don't know why anyone would make it seem like Adams or anyone on this defense the last 3 or 4 years was accounted for. They ran over us, through us, threw around us, and crushed us. This defense has been bad for years. Hopefully that starts to change in 2023.