2023 Optomism...so far

[RiverDog]

That's simply not true. Very few if any defensive player has to be accounted for on every play. For example, they don't have to account for a safety if they have a quarterback sneak called, now do they?

The only time offenses had to 'account' for Adams is when he was at the LOS threatening to blitz and they had a passing play or running play to his side called, and once that started happening with regularity, Adams sack numbers took a nosedive, going from 9.5 in one year to zero the next.

I don't know why anyone would make it seem like Adams or anyone on this defense the last 3 or 4 years was accounted for. They ran over us, through us, threw around us, and crushed us. This defense has been bad for years. Hopefully that starts to change in 2023.

Yeah, no kidding. Take a look at our defense when Adams was in the lineup. In 2021, with Adams in the lineup for nearly 3/4 of the season, we were ranked 28th in the league in total defense, 31st in passing defense. If offenses had to sacrifice something in accounting for Adams, it sure didn't hurt them very much.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, no kidding. Take a look at our defense when Adams was in the lineup. In 2021, with Adams in the lineup for nearly 3/4 of the season, we were ranked 28th in the league in total defense, 31st in passing defense. If offenses had to sacrifice something in accounting for Adams, it sure didn't hurt them very much.

Some people never want to admit when a mistake was a mistake. And the Adams trade was a mistake. Only positive at this point is ever since Pete and John traded Russ, they seem to be back to the basics of team building rather than worrying about making one player happy or trying to figure out how to go for it and win a Super Bowl with bandaids strapped on. Now they seem back to building a solid team from the ground up and letting time do the rest.

[NorthHawk]

Perhaps? ...but we have now improved upon the many weapons we gave Geno last year with even more explosive potential. An effective Smith-Njigba should translate to even more coverage nightmares for our opponents defense with DK and Lockett demanding the respect even more. WR Coach SanJay Lal must be smiling as Shane Waldron expands our playbook. Our O-line can only improve in run blocking as we emerge with newly added pieces to our O-line interior.

Kenneth Walker III can only benefit with more burst options into cleared space. Rotating in Charbonnet doesn't allow a defense any rest. Once McIntosh claims the 3rd down pass pro...flat/curl route specialist...the RB unit as a whole will allow Geno even more options.

Geno's 2nd half drop-off...I suspect a combination of our opponents film study on our revealed playbook and the wear down of a grinding 17 game schedule on many of our rookies in starting roles played a hand. So how did our team respond? Geno has a highly upgraded Offense to deploy in Waldron's expanding spread offense...potential exists that even if a Defense knows our play tendencies from film study...the room for them to adjust becomes more hampered. Go Hawks

What I see from Geno is most likely he’s an equivalent of Kirk Cousins in Minnesota. He can put up great stats with an outstanding supporting cast but isn’t capable of taking it to the next level. I hope i’m wrong.

[Aseahawkfan]

Geno ain't Prime Russ in the 4th quarter. Not many QBs are. Hard to find those guys. I think with a solid defense, we can be like the 49ers.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, no kidding. Take a look at our defense when Adams was in the lineup. In 2021, with Adams in the lineup for nearly 3/4 of the season, we were ranked 28th in the league in total defense, 31st in passing defense. If offenses had to sacrifice something in accounting for Adams, it sure didn't hurt them very much.

Some people never want to admit when a mistake was a mistake. And the Adams trade was a mistake. Only positive at this point is ever since Pete and John traded Russ, they seem to be back to the basics of team building rather than worrying about making one player happy or trying to figure out how to go for it and win a Super Bowl with bandaids strapped on. Now they seem back to building a solid team from the ground up and letting time do the rest.

I completely agree. Last year's draft represented a departure from the past 8 years or so. I wasn't as thrilled with this season's draft as others are, and I'm sort of in the C+ range. I don't like spending high draft picks on wide receivers and running backs when we had needs on the defensive front 7 and interior offensive line that seemed to have gotten de-prioritized. However, the players they took seemed like good value, not reaches like so many other of our top draft picks prior to 2022. And, I really liked the Witherspoon selection. If our QBOTF wasn't to be had and we couldn't get expected value by trading out, he was a very good pick.

[jshawaii22]

Our seasons 2nd half drop off last year, IMHO was due to the 2 tackles "hitting the rookie wall" -- look at their play starting about game 13 on. Not just them, but also our defensive secondary rookies, too. It just seemed they ran out of gas usually after halftime. I expect a big jump this year.

[govandals]

Long term, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking the first half season was the best we will ever see from Geno and I doubt it's enough to win a SB.

Oh, you're not alone. I feel exactly the same way.

[c_hawkbob]

I'd be with you if you'd put a period after Geno. How he played through the first half of last year is absolutely good enough of a championship!

[Hawktawk]

The doubts about Geno is the 2nd half of the year was what we expected from the start. His performance tailed off quite a bit and he was the beneficiary of more than the average number of dropped INTs.
So which Geno will we get - the first half, or the second half season? That's what's causing the doubt.
Long term, I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking the first half season was the best we will ever see from Geno and I doubt it's enough to win a SB. I think the FO thinks the same way because they didn't lock him up and pay him like a top QB and gave him a contract that has some easy outs should we have drafted one of the top QBs in the last draft.

Our line was ranked 11 in pass pro at one point and wound up 27 so in effect they were the worst line in the league or close at years end . In several of the losses including some bad play by Geno we had no healthy back either . In the Carolina game 2 critical non calls completely changed the game . Also late needing the ball Carolina drove the field to seal it without throwing the ball more than a time or 2. We scored 34 on the raiders and the haters on the forum blamed Geno , said he couldn’t close when the refs took away a first at midfield and gave Max Crosby a free 5 minute timeout to rest up and bull rush Lucas into Geno . The second half wasn’t as good as the near nfl record first half . Coach described Geno as “ on fire “ “ in incredible shape .” Fired up .

I’m betting on Geno again . He’s gonna make you all eat crow big time. 34 TD , 9 picks. 463 rush yards . 12 wins , .


And it’s funny calling 100 million bucks a peanuts deal . That’s how it is now I guess

[RiverDog]

I'd be with you if you'd put a period after Geno. How he played through the first half of last year is absolutely good enough of a championship!

I agree. If, however unlikely, Geno was able to sustain his performance in the first half of last year through the entire season this year, it would be plenty good enough for us to win a SB.

[mykc14]

He’s gonna make you all eat crow big time.

Not this again...

[NorthHawk]

What he has going for him is the supporting cast around him should be improved..
If Pete doesn’t put his thumb down on the Offense, we could have one of the most varied and effective Offenses in the league with the 2 new RBs adding an extra dimension to the passing game. Add in JSN who should be a real threat in the slot and who does the defense key on? We could end up with both JSN and a RB being covered by Line Backers - both mismatches not to mention easier coverage for both DK and Lockett. Lots of options should open up for the QB if he has the time.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Quarterbacks performing well year after year is difficult, and it's the upper tier guys that accomplish that. I'm high on Geno going into next season, but I've got to see him do it. Defensive woes, rookies, and getting behind didn't help him, but it was also his first full season in several years. Opponents undoubtedly adjusted to him, and I can't ignore some of his decision making. Now those rookies are a year better. He's going to have a nice arsenal of weapons to work with. Hopefully he and Waldron are looking at what they can do to improve on last year and keep opponents guessing. While being a cause for optimism, none of it is a given. He has a better team around him this year and another full offseason to work on his game with Waldron, so his play is more on him this season than last season.

[NorthHawk]

Quarterbacks performing well year after year is difficult, and it's the upper tier guys that accomplish that. I'm high on Geno going into next season, but I've got to see him do it. Defensive woes, rookies, and getting behind didn't help him, but it was also his first full season in several years. Opponents undoubtedly adjusted to him, and I can't ignore some of his decision making. Now those rookies are a year better. He's going to have a nice arsenal of weapons to work with. Hopefully he and Waldron are looking at what they can do to improve on last year and keep opponents guessing. While being a cause for optimism, none of it is a given. He has a better team around him this year and another full offseason to work on his game with Waldron, so his play is more on him this season than last season.

I agree with a lot of what you say about Geno, and have stated I think he has a Kirk Cousins type of ceiling, but the potential of this Offense is sky high even with a pedestrian QB playing his best.
A top QB would put us in the same sentence as KC with Tyreek a few years back. I'm not sure I've seen this offensive potential for the Seahawks ever. But if Pete puts his thumb on it to make it more conservative then it will be a lost opportunity for both the players and fans.

[tarlhawk]

Geno is being rewarded for his patience and Drew Lock is being groomed as his replacement finally getting the coaching he needed. Shane Waldron is the key to making both QB able to fit the wide spread offense he can now expand on ...as the necessary pieces have been added. Each facet of our offense has the coaching necessary to create a well oiled machine of offensive destruction. Shane Waldron doesn't always get credit for his QB nurturing but he played an instrumental role in getting the best out of Jared Goff during his time in LA. (Also don't underestimate the influence of Greg Olson as our QB Coach).

Sanjay Lal is a hidden coaching talent who Jaxon has already expressed respect for and DK and Lockett have already tapped into his tutelage. Andy Dickerson has shown a propensity to get the most out of the O-line talent he is given to shape and mold to support Waldrons offense. Chad Morton has a very good RB room to give balance to our playbook and complements the O-line. Pat Mcpherson coaches a very good blend of TE magic making our Double TE formations (also called Twelve Personnel) a frequent option.

(Footballoutsiders.com) Two-tight end sets place seven blockers on the line of scrimmage. Most defenses operate on a base 4-3 scheme. A seven-on-four battle in the trenches puts the defense at a severe disadvantage. This mix of very good coaching and explosive talent can fully utilize "first half" Geno into an even better performance all season long. Go Hawks

[RiverDog]

Geno is being rewarded for his patience and Drew Lock is being groomed as his replacement finally getting the coaching he needed. Shane Waldron is the key to making both QB able to fit the wide spread offense he can now expand on ...as the necessary pieces have been added. Each facet of our offense has the coaching necessary to create a well oiled machine of offensive destruction. Shane Waldron doesn't always get credit for his QB nurturing but he played an instrumental role in getting the best out of Jared Goff during his time in LA. (Also don't underestimate the influence of Greg Olson as our QB Coach).

Sanjay Lal is a hidden coaching talent who Jaxon has already expressed respect for and DK and Lockett have already tapped into his tutelage. Andy Dickerson has shown a propensity to get the most out of the O-line talent he is given to shape and mold to support Waldrons offense. Chad Morton has a very good RB room to give balance to our playbook and complements the O-line. Pat Mcpherson coaches a very good blend of TE magic making our Double TE formations (also called Twelve Personnel) a frequent option.

(Footballoutsiders.com) Two-tight end sets place seven blockers on the line of scrimmage. Most defenses operate on a base 4-3 scheme. A seven-on-four battle in the trenches puts the defense at a severe disadvantage. This mix of very good coaching and explosive talent can fully utilize "first half" Geno into an even better performance all season long. Go Hawks

I'm not being sarcastic, but do you really feel that they're grooming Lock as Geno's replacement? He'll turn 27 mid season next year, will be 30 years old by the time Geno's current contract is up, and hasn't shown signs of being a quality NFL QB in either his time with us or with the Broncos. We signed him to just a one year deal very similar to what we signed Geno to last season. Neither of us have an exclusive insight into what our coaching staff's long range plans are, but that one seems a bit illogical to me.

[RiverDog]

He’s gonna make you all eat crow big time.

Not this again...

Yeah, no kidding. Please, HT, in all sincerity, no matter how good or bad Geno does, let's not go down that I was so right and everyone else was so wrong path again. It really gets tiresome.

[NorthHawk]

'm not being sarcastic, but do you really feel that they're grooming Lock as Geno's replacement? He'll turn 27 mid season next year, will be 30 years old by the time Geno's current contract is up, and hasn't shown signs of being a quality NFL QB in either his time with us or with the Broncos. We signed him to just a one year deal very similar to what we signed Geno to last season. Neither of us have an exclusive insight into what our coaching staff's long range plans are, but that one seems a bit illogical to me.

True. Teams don't sign players to one year deals if they think they are the future - at any position let alone the most important position on the field.
Why would they risk losing him in FA if they are 'grooming' him to be the QBOTF?
As well, they told both QBs that there was a good chance they would take one of the top QBs in the draft and they reportedly really liked 2 of them That pretty much tells us neither QB is considered the long term answer.

[tarlhawk]

RD and NH...I almost knew the Drew Lock aspect from my post would be a "target for response". Where is your reference for a QB being groomed (who is currently a back-up) getting a multi-year contract when the team is using cap space to meet multiple needs? Usually your "QBOTF" is a rookie who already carries a 4 or 5 year contract...but this year we had both QB needing contracts and Geno played at a level exceeding "outside expectation" so would your GM give a multi-year to Drew and convince Geno to accept another one year "prove it deal" ??

Fans only see Drew's performance from a covid impacted "beat Geno now" preseason. Many of us blessed by not getting covid cannot relate to the toll and fatigue it places on the body. So we have fans and "outsider" perspectives sounding comparable to the same ridicule placed on Geno before last year started and meanwhile our coaches see Drew's performance away from prying eyes (since practices during the season are closed to media for obvious reasons) and under the radar seem to like what they see. When players were asked about Geno after he got accolades for being an "overachiever" they responded by saying Geno didn't surprise them at all based on what he did in camp in the years proceeding his start as QB1. Geno didn't sneak up on anybody...and Drew Lock is getting solid coaching and team chemistry bonds.

John Schneider has given so many "hints" of how the Seahawks view the QB nuances that shape their ability to succeed at an NFL level and he seemed very happy when he revealed Lock had just been resigned before JS began a radio talk show appearance. John and Pete see and know more about Drew Lock than our own speculation.

Pete loves character and appreciates strong back-up support Drew gives to Geno while "waiting in the wings" The way Geno's contract is written leaves it on Geno's shoulders to get the "green light in 2024" while having Drew ready as "next man up". Geno had a one year contract rewarded with an extended deal...so just because Drew has a one year contract doesn't mean our team is "risking" exposure to free agency even if Drew reveals his readiness in 2023. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

Like you said, they give young QBs 4 or 5 year contracts.
So if they are grooming him (your words) to be the starting QB, they would have confidence in him being able to be better than Geno.
Therefore, they would sign him to a long term contract. It didn't have to be a $40M/year deal, but a long term deal nonetheless. It also makes sense from a long term Cap hit as the QB position $$ are skyrocketing, so signing your QBOTF to a Cap friendly deal would be the best thing they could do.
But the two contracts they did sign both QBs to were short term prove it deals or just regular backup money for Lock. Locks deal is for 1 year at $4M according to Spotrac. That doesn't shout he's the QBOTF or is being groomed to be the starter.
In fact it shouts we don't believe he's going to be much more than a backup on this team. Geno's contract is for $105M, but has outs after the first year with I think $14M (won't be exercised as we didn't draft a QB), and another out costing us $42M after the 2nd year. It's a team friendly contract with multiple ways to get out before committing to $100+M depending upon how many bonus targets he hits.

Either way neither signing shouts 'We think Geno or Drew are the future at QB', rather the signings and actions say we are looking for the long term answer at QB.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

If they were grooming Lock, why not sign him to a multi-year deal at $4 million per year? I think they like Lock and are developing him, but they like Geno more; perhaps better to say they anticipate Geno being the guy that allows them to compete now (as evidenced by Geno's contract). I think they signed him because he's familiar. He's been in the system so he's good insurance should Geno go down or his play goes sideways. Should Geno play well again this year and they draft the QBOTF in 2024, Lock is a FA and can decide for himself if he wants to test the market or stay on and possibly compete with the rookie. I think they wanted a known back up and they want to allow him to have a fair shake at moving on without any fuss.

[RiverDog]

If they were grooming Lock, why not sign him to a multi-year deal at $4 million per year? I think they like Lock and are developing him, but they like Geno more; perhaps better to say they anticipate Geno being the guy that allows them to compete now (as evidenced by Geno's contract). I think they signed him because he's familiar. He's been in the system so he's good insurance should Geno go down or his play goes sideways. Should Geno play well again this year and they draft the QBOTF in 2024, Lock is a FA and can decide for himself if he wants to test the market or stay on and possibly compete with the rookie. I think they wanted a known back up and they want to allow him to have a fair shake at moving on without any fuss.

I agree with most of this. It's very similar to how we handled Geno's situation when Russell was with us. Familiarity is a huge consideration for a backup quarterback and it's a pretty safe bet that it was the primary reason for resigning him.

As far as Lock himself goes, there's a lot of things that he does well. He throws a really nice ball, good quick release, moves around in the pocket, has good athleticism. His problem both with us and in Denver was his ability to read and react to defenses. The clearest example of this was in the preseason last year, against I think the Steelers when Lock did not recognize a corner blitz and ended up suffering a strip sack turnover.

[Hawktawk]

Ok I’ll adress a few things without responding to several comments individually . First why is being optimistic about Geno a bad thing ? There’s segment of this fan base that won’t admit they were wrong last year . Some would rather we had stunk .
And river as for you being annoyed if I dare mention my win rate last year you told me I was deluded by my blind hatred of Russ when I made all the predictions including the denver train wreck. Just a hater talking foolishly . I missed on the defense bad but otherwise .. Asea said I was a low moral moral person for saying Russ was a problem . Buy hey keep it to yourself when you’re right .

I hope I’m right again . Genos the one making you eat crow , not me but some lack the honesty to dish it up .

As for Pete and Johh not thinking either guy is the future they had shot at at least 3 of the top 5 guys with their draft capital and passed . Maybe Pete and John just want to win another way . Their only title was with a 3rd rounder and pounding run game and filthy D. Maybe they don’t want a quarter of a billion drama queen .


And il say it one more time . This UDFA rookie lefty isn’t a camp arm . He has some near fbs records . Carroll said he threw for 62 touchdowns as a HS senior and 90+ at East Carolina against 30 picks . Have you all forgotten? Pete plays the best guy regardless of rank . This kid is 6’3” great powerful athlete . This I know . Pete and John won’t field a team with a signal caller they don’t believe in . It’s part of why the trade went down . And Geno might have around 75 mil guaranteed but it guarantees nothing . Ask Matt Flynn .

[tarlhawk]

Both NH and Mack have good opinions that reflect the fan base norm. I am noticing certain "tells" from both JS and Pete that cause me to "pause" as to what I feel their perceived valuation of Drew is. Sitting at number 5 we had draft capital to move up and grab a QB out of reach by our draft position and both Texas and the Cards were "open" for deals (maybe the Cards said "no way".

Instead JS said two players would make us stand put and not trade down as we waited for our pick...he said Spoon was one leaving the "other" for speculation (Will Anderson seems more "likely" than Anthony Richardson as the "other" but nothing is gained by him revealing...only that we got one of the guys we deemed not wanting to pass on. We passed twice on getting Will Levis and once on Hooker...but 2022 and 2023 offered so many QBOTF...right?

Malik Willis was last years Anthony Richardson and "slipped away". Instead we helped the teams WHOLE talent base and now provide even more offensive weapons to support our QB room...Geno is the graduate from Seahawk U...while Lock is still enrolled as the eager student who is excelling at all his "homework". Both QB were resigned without marrying either...options without committment with "results" written into any planned "pre-nup" agreement.

2024 draft also has promising QBOTF talent so we are not handicapped should our QB room change our minds. Go Hawks

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

And il say it one more time . This UDFA rookie lefty isn’t a camp arm . He has some near fbs records . Carroll said he threw for 62 touchdowns as a HS senior and 90+ at East Carolina against 30 picks . Have you all forgotten? Pete plays the best guy regardless of rank . This kid is 6’3” great powerful athlete . This I know . Pete and John won’t field a team with a signal caller they don’t believe in . It’s part of why the trade went down . And Geno might have around 75 mil guaranteed but it guarantees nothing . Ask Matt Flynn .

Won't be upset if you're right. He's also a UDFA like you said. That would be the steal of the decade if a UDFA lefty QB turns into a starter. Highly improbable.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Ahlers did have a very nice 2022 season.

[RiverDog]

Both NH and Mack have good opinions that reflect the fan base norm. I am noticing certain "tells" from both JS and Pete that cause me to "pause" as to what I feel their perceived valuation of Drew is. Sitting at number 5 we had draft capital to move up and grab a QB out of reach by our draft position and both Texas and the Cards were "open" for deals (maybe the Cards said "no way".

Instead JS said two players would make us stand put and not trade down as we waited for our pick...he said Spoon was one leaving the "other" for speculation (Will Anderson seems more "likely" than Anthony Richardson as the "other" but nothing is gained by him revealing...only that we got one of the guys we deemed not wanting to pass on. We passed twice on getting Will Levis and once on Hooker...but 2022 and 2023 offered so many QBOTF...right?

Malik Willis was last years Anthony Richardson and "slipped away". Instead we helped the teams WHOLE talent base and now provide even more offensive weapons to support our QB room...Geno is the graduate from Seahawk U...while Lock is still enrolled as the eager student who is excelling at all his "homework". Both QB were resigned without marrying either...options without committment with "results" written into any planned "pre-nup" agreement.

2024 draft also has promising QBOTF talent so we are not handicapped should our QB room change our minds. Go Hawks

A couple things here. The Cards were very unlikely to make a high profile, top 5 draft trade with a division rival. Secondly, there's no way to gauge what our interest was in the top quarterbacks. The only thing we know for sure is that we didn't want Levis as we passed on him twice in the first round. There's every bit of the possibility that we could have taken Stroud, Richardson, or Young at #5 had they been available. And lastly, Malik was not last year's Richardson. The latter was much more highly regarded.

Boy, this must be a boring offseason if the best thing we can do is argue about what our long term intentions for a backup quarterback are and what kind of meaning can be drawn from our not trading up to get a quarterback. When does training camp start?

[Hawktawk]

Lol isn’t that the truth . But really it’s a replay of last off-season . The media and many fans doubt Geno . They doubt our team as a whole even though we’ve had a great off season so far by any reasonable standard .

So we are still the disrespected . Obviously the qb has to play well as our offense won several of our 9 games without a lot of help . If d is better and Geno is even somewhere between first 9 and last 8 I’m saying here we go again.

If Geno stinks it up we can settle the can Drew play unless Ahlers pulls a Russ .

[tarlhawk]

A couple things here. The Cards were very unlikely to make a high profile, top 5 draft trade with a division rival. Secondly, there's no way to gauge what our interest was in the top quarterbacks. The only thing we know for sure is that we didn't want Levis as we passed on him twice in the first round. There's every bit of the possibility that we could have taken Stroud, Richardson, or Young at #5 had they been available. And lastly, Malik was not last year's Richardson. The latter was much more highly regarded.

Boy, this must be a boring offseason if the best thing we can do is argue about what our long term intentions for a backup quarterback are and what kind of meaning can be drawn from our not trading up to get a quarterback. When does training camp start?

I guess our QB room is part of my 2023 optimism ...but opinions can differ without rising to a level of arguing. As for QB speculation that's all anyone can do...speculation exists for a later round QB target who failed to make it to our pick...but no round or anything specific enough to warrant the speculation further. My reference to Malik Willis was not "straight across equal talent" but upside talent needing further development...both Willis and AR have been labeled as "projects" and "good fits" with being able to wait and get "coached up" while Geno still shined as the established starter.

A "gun slinging" QB(Geno/Lock) exudes self confidence in hitting tight windows based only on arm talent and quick decisions...but an effective NFL starter must curb those tendencies with absorbing a sack or throwing a pass "away" when the risk reaches a "coaching thresh hold". The better the weapons the fewer the times of high risk occur...less opportunity of a rushed "mistake" pass. Perhaps Drew has gained further trust as we "coach him up". An opinion of speculation that I hope to enjoy if it comes to pass but I have different outlooks with my expectations. I felt strongly that Russell Wilson would stay...but accepted the outcome when he didn't. Highly paid individuals get paid to evaluate and coach...my level of trust allows me to enjoy each game for whatever the outcome resolves. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

What it showed was that our starting QB can play 10 good games. No wonder they are doubtful, it would be negligent to not be unsure after his performance tailed off.
But this Offense is QB friendly, just like the McVay and Shanahan Offenses that it evolved from. It's a big reason why SF can seemingly take a QB from nowhere and make him more than serviceable. The Rams with Goff went to the SB, in part because their Offense is QB friendly and we saw it last year with Mayfield winning a game with only a few days of practice. So Geno, with much better weapons than the Rams should do well in this Offense. But can he take it to the next level?
Nobody knows, and he's never shown the ability to win games all by himself. Maybe he will this year, maybe he won't. It's why we play the games.

[Old but Slow]

Northhawk, I am with you. The development of the offense the last couple of years has to lead to an easier job for the QB. Russell must be gnashing his teeth to see our offensive line come together. While I am no an "all in" fan of Geno, he is capable, and this offense looks to be formidable. And, then, there is the defense. I see improvement and promise, but the ability to contain other offenses will be the key to the team success.

While I value this forum very much, and read it every day, I am dismayed by what I see as a competive element. I appreciate good commentary, but some of this "I was righter than you were" or "you should eat crow because I was right" s*** is not helpful. Let your commentary speak for itself.

[Hawktawk]

Northhawk, I am with you. The development of the offense the last couple of years has to lead to an easier job for the QB. Russell must be gnashing his teeth to see our offensive line come together. While I am no an "all in" fan of Geno, he is capable, and this offense looks to be formidable. And, then, there is the defense. I see improvement and promise, but the ability to contain other offenses will be the key to the team success.

While I value this forum very much, and read it every day, I am dismayed by what I see as a competive element. I appreciate good commentary, but some of this "I was righter than you were" or "you should eat crow because I was right" s*** is not helpful. Let your commentary speak for itself.

As I said it’s a 2 way street . I got tons of abuse right here for my opinions last preseason . My comment on the thread was I believe GENO will make some ear crow again although some never dished up . Nothing other than a prediction .

It was when river chimes in accusing me of something I didn’t do I gave a reminder . I don’t know what’s wrong with thinking Geno might not be a flash in the pan . I knew he could play after the 13 quarters in 21 and got ridiculed right here for saying it . It’s exactly what Pete and john referenced in explaining their faith in him .

But I’m beating my chest again I guess . It seems like it’s open season on hawktawk in this forum . Damned if I do damned if I don’t .

[obiken]

While I value this forum very much, and read it every day, I am dismayed by what I see as a competive element. I appreciate good commentary, but some of this "I was righter than you were" or "you should eat crow because I was right" s*** is not helpful. Let your commentary speak for itself.

I think we are all a little guilty of that, although I have in the past years tried to "man up" and say you were right and I was wrong. HT was wrong we did not win 10 or 11 games and win the division, but I was really wrong, I said bet the under on 4.5 games!
Sometimes My logic can be right OBS, but the conclusion can be wrong. EG Marcus Allen will never make in the NFL because he had the line at USC in their hey day to run behind, WRONG!
HT and I still have to agree to disagree on RW, he was great the first 6-7 years, the numbers dont lie. However, marrying a star and getting massive money will ruin most people, I just didnt think it would happen to Russ. However it was not all the LOB, sorry.

[Aseahawkfan]

As I said it’s a 2 way street . I got tons of abuse right here for my opinions last preseason . My comment on the thread was I believe GENO will make some ear crow again although some never dished up . Nothing other than a prediction .

It was when river chimes in accusing me of something I didn’t do I gave a reminder . I don’t know what’s wrong with thinking Geno might not be a flash in the pan . I knew he could play after the 13 quarters in 21 and got ridiculed right here for saying it . It’s exactly what Pete and john referenced in explaining their faith in him .

But I’m beating my chest again I guess . It seems like it’s open season on hawktawk in this forum . Damned if I do damned if I don’t .

It isn't a two way street. You're the only guy doing this on the forum. No one cares unless you're making money off being "right." No one is abusing you. This is an open forum where people post their opinions.

I don't even think about this place when I'm not posting. As far as holding grudges or some stuff over words on a forum, not even something that enters my mind.

This place is for entertainment and discussion on a mutual hobby. Don't take it too seriously.

[tarlhawk]

At the risk of making an opinion that our defense has only been "bad" last year and in 2019 I am fond of when our defense crushed the opposition (2013-2015) that I often heard fans from other teams at work accuse us as a collection of thugs who got away with murder as the refs "looked the other way". I felt indignant about such claims even though one came from a friend who I began to see in a different light...I don't even remember the actual team he supported but it must have been in our own division. He remembered I was once a loyal Dolphin fan and was unaware of my interest as a Seahawk fan since the arrival of Pete and JS (the 2010 NFL draft got my attention). I kinda bristled at his comment without saying much...he singled out Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner as the root of his ire and hated Pete Carroll who he said approved of and encouraged it. I find his viewpoint a bit narrow and perhaps the effort to maximize competition fostered a bit of swagger and taunting (that seems to be frowned upon in our current NFL). I enjoy a good defense and I liked the No Name Defense and Killer Bees and I remember a pair of hard hitting safeties from the Dolphins (Jarvis Williams and Louis Oliver).


Bad to me is a relevant term...many stats can cloud a point of focus...I single out points given up as a collective reflection of a defense...the unpopular "bend but don't break". Keeping things simple is more objective than subjective...if your offense scores more points than your defense allows...then you should generate more wins. What is bad defense when focused on this narrow view? Is top 15 out of 32 teams "ok" or is our standard top 5 (2013-2016) and 2017 till present bad? The Cap situation and free agency "follow the money" means a GM must balance the offensive and defensive contracts in such a way that winning seasons are sustained in spite of a myriad of obstacles that make no two years alike. The NFL is out of the "dynasty creating eras" and panders to the "anything can happen now" crowd that keeps betting alive and tv viewership tuned in...the "business aspect" doesn't always stay "behind the curtain".

The real culprit in a bad defense is when your defense finally stops the opponents offense...and your defense has allowed their offense too deep (close to your defending goal line) and now your offense has starting field position requiring 90 plus yards to score. Consistently allow this and offensive rhythm begins to drift to a fall of no return. Time of possession is a strong indicator if its balance gets out of whack...it makes fourth quarters "up for grabs". Other teams update their game plans and begin a pile on effort to keep your teams weakness exposed. Any weak effort by your offense is magnified while your defense is back peddling.

The key response is team driven...offense needs to "move the chains" while allowing for quick strike opportunities to stretch the score and force the opponent to abandon the rush. Your defense needs to keep down and distance in a predictable pattern...3rd and long vice 3rd and short...get off the field! Another year of experience allows Waldron to become even bigger in outcome influence while Clint Hurtt is rallying the troops to solidify our defensive schemes in his 2nd year as Defensive Coordinator. Go Hawks

[RiverDog]

As I said it’s a 2 way street . I got tons of abuse right here for my opinions last preseason . My comment on the thread was I believe GENO will make some ear crow again although some never dished up . Nothing other than a prediction .

It was when river chimes in accusing me of something I didn’t do I gave a reminder . I don’t know what’s wrong with thinking Geno might not be a flash in the pan . I knew he could play after the 13 quarters in 21 and got ridiculed right here for saying it . It’s exactly what Pete and john referenced in explaining their faith in him .

But I’m beating my chest again I guess . It seems like it’s open season on hawktawk in this forum . Damned if I do damned if I don’t .

It isn't a two way street. You're the only guy doing this on the forum. No one cares unless you're making money off being "right." No one is abusing you. This is an open forum where people post their opinions.

I don't even think about this place when I'm not posting. As far as holding grudges or some stuff over words on a forum, not even something that enters my mind.

This place is for entertainment and discussion on a mutual hobby. Don't take it too seriously.

Hawktawk, I tried once using the most polite and respectful tone that I can and I'll say it again: Please, HT, in all sincerity, no matter how good or bad Geno does, let's not go down that I was so right and everyone else was so wrong path again. No one's attacking you. You're the one that started it by telling everyone how we're all going to eat crow. They/we are just asking that you/we not get so personal and talk about eating crow and beating chests. The other posters clearly don't like it.

Please, no more trash talking about how we're all going to eat crow and how you're going to be beating your chest.

[RiverDog]

At the risk of making an opinion that our defense has only been "bad" last year and in 2019 I am fond of when our defense crushed the opposition (2013-2015) that I often heard fans from other teams at work accuse us as a collection of thugs who got away with murder as the refs "looked the other way". I felt indignant about such claims even though one came from a friend who I began to see in a different light...I don't even remember the actual team he supported but it must have been in our own division. He remembered I was once a loyal Dolphin fan and was unaware of my interest as a Seahawk fan since the arrival of Pete and JS (the 2010 NFL draft got my attention). I kinda bristled at his comment without saying much...he singled out Richard Sherman and Brandon Browner as the root of his ire and hated Pete Carroll who he said approved of and encouraged it. I find his viewpoint a bit narrow and perhaps the effort to maximize competition fostered a bit of swagger and taunting (that seems to be frowned upon in our current NFL). I enjoy a good defense and I liked the No Name Defense and Killer Bees and I remember a pair of hard hitting safeties from the Dolphins (Jarvis Williams and Louis Oliver).

I'd start a year earlier, in 2012 when our defense was ranked 4th and we had what I believed to be the best team in the conference that season, especially at the end of the year when we absolutely crushed the eventual conference champions in the 2nd to last regular season game with plenty at stake.

But you're right. We gained a reputation, somewhat deserved as we always led the league in penalties, of being a dirty team not too unlike that earned by the Oakland Raiders back in the 60's and 70's. Sherman and Browner in particular attracted a lot if ire as they weren't very fleet afoot and depended on 'chicken fighting', ie grabbing receivers not flagrant enough to draw a PI or holding but just enough to keep them from getting separation.

Bad to me is a relevant term...many stats can cloud a point of focus...I single out points given up as a collective reflection of a defense...the unpopular "bend but don't break". Keeping things simple is more objective than subjective...if your offense scores more points than your defense allows...then you should generate more wins. What is bad defense when focused on this narrow view? Is top 15 out of 32 teams "ok" or is our standard top 5 (2013-2016) and 2017 till present bad? The Cap situation and free agency "follow the money" means a GM must balance the offensive and defensive contracts in such a way that winning seasons are sustained in spite of a myriad of obstacles that make no two years alike. The NFL is out of the "dynasty creating eras" and panders to the "anything can happen now" crowd that keeps betting alive and tv viewership tuned in...the "business aspect" doesn't always stay "behind the curtain".

The most popular way to quantify a defense is by total yards. Points scored can be a bit misleading as there's more to scoring than defensive performance, ie turnovers, special teams play, field position, and so on. But only the defense surrenders yards. Of course, no stat is completely fair, time of possession, for example, can influence the yards surrendered by the defense and as we all know, a good deal of that has to do with the performance of the offense. But it's the closest one. Regardless, we were usually ranked at or near the top in points defense as well.

As long as we're talking stats, the one that IMO is most overlook during that era was that we set an all-time NFL record for consecutive games without losing by more than 8 points, or one score. I can't remember the exact number of games, but it seems to me that it was in the 70's. To me, that spoke to our defense as even though we didn't always win, we kept every single game close.

In 2017, we slipped out of the top 10 rated defenses for the first time since Pete's inaugural season of 2010, and it hasn't been the same since, either in terms of statistics, win/loss record, playoff performance, or the good ole eye test. Getting our defense back to that level of play is essential if we want to reclaim the glory years of the LOB.

[NorthHawk]

As I said it’s a 2 way street . I got tons of abuse right here for my opinions last preseason . My comment on the thread was I believe GENO will make some ear crow again although some never dished up . Nothing other than a prediction .

It was when river chimes in accusing me of something I didn’t do I gave a reminder . I don’t know what’s wrong with thinking Geno might not be a flash in the pan . I knew he could play after the 13 quarters in 21 and got ridiculed right here for saying it . It’s exactly what Pete and john referenced in explaining their faith in him .

But I’m beating my chest again I guess . It seems like it’s open season on hawktawk in this forum . Damned if I do damned if I don’t .

I probably jumped on you the most last year. I think I said you were delusional to think we would win 11 games and Geno would be very good.
You called it, and I was wrong, but I don't think Geno was as good as the stats say he was. He was far better than I thought he would be, but he tailed off after the first half of the season and got very lucky.
It's why I still don't trust Geno to be the same QB he was the first half of last season all this season. I hope I'm wrong and he's the man, but last years trend line is too troubling to go all in.

[NorthHawk]

The most popular way to quantify a defense is by total yards. Points scored can be a bit misleading as there's more to scoring than defensive performance, ie turnovers, special teams play, field position, and so on. But only the defense surrenders yards. Of course, no stat is completely fair, time of possession, for example, can influence the yards surrendered by the defense and as we all know, a good deal of that has to do with the performance of the offense. But it's the closest one. Regardless, we were usually ranked at or near the top in points defense as well.

That's the problem with rankings and stats. There have been some defenses whose philosophy was bend, don't break. That could conceivably lead to a defense that gives up over 500 yards per game but only average 18 points against. And there are others that give up 500 yards per game and average 30 points against. Statistically from a yards perspective they are close to equal, but clearly they are not.

As long as we're talking stats, the one that IMO is most overlook during that era was that we set an all-time NFL record for consecutive games without losing by more than 8 points, or one score. I can't remember the exact number of games, but it seems to me that it was in the 70's. To me, that spoke to our defense as even though we didn't always win, we kept every single game close.

As mentioned by you above, the Offense had a lot to do with the not losing by more than 8 points. Pete Carrolls philosophy was to keep the game close then have a furious charge at the end to win, so if that's part of the game plan then we would have more close games that other teams might. It also was a cause of little production in the first half which frustrated many of us at the time.

[Hawktawk]

As I said it’s a 2 way street . I got tons of abuse right here for my opinions last preseason . My comment on the thread was I believe GENO will make some ear crow again although some never dished up . Nothing other than a prediction

Hawktawk, I tried once using the most polite and respectful tone that I can and I'll say it again: Please, HT, in all sincerity, no matter how good or bad Geno does, let's not go down that I was so right and everyone else was so wrong path again. No one's attacking you. You're the one that started it by telling everyone how we're all going to eat crow. They/we are just asking that you/we not get so personal and talk about eating crow and beating chests . The other posters clearly don't like it.

Please, no more trash talking about how we're all going to eat crow and how you're going to be beating your chest.

I didn’t say one damn word about last year in my response other than “ again “ and I threw out some estimated stats and all of a sudden I’m somehow gloating ? Trash talking? But the ad hominem personal attacks from you and others were fine , called delusional , blind hater of Russ clouding my judgement , dirt bag low moral person , half the morals of Russ .

Ridicule not discussion . Extreme ridicule and animosity once my opinion was known .

If I had a forum friend who was optimistic about my qb and team I’d be hoping they are right , not verbally abuse them over and over . People who will never admit they are wrong are easily as annoying as someone who might be a little too proud of being right .
I hope to be right again .
As for the forum I’m beginning to think it’s been a quarter century massive waste of time . Might try another