12 Personnel/ 11 Personnel

[tarlhawk]

I'm sure many fans saw the 12 personnel(Two TE) package employed a lot last year utilizing our skilled trio of TE (Fant/Parkinson/Dissly) and besides affording Kenneth Walker III some extra help in getting into LB territory and beyond (from either side) it also gives them on pass plays 4 targets (WR/TE/TE/WR) *DK/Parkinson/Fant/Lockett* going vert up field without warning for an opponents defense that loses focus or is just lacking personnel.

Personnel In Football (Viqtorysports.com)
The receivers are not listed in the personnel grouping number. Offensive rules indicate the offense may have five eligible players to touch the football; the remaining number is the wide receivers. For example, 11 personnel means:
1 running backs + 1 Tight End = 11 Personnel
This means there are 3 wide receivers on the play, as you would subtract the running back and tight end from the total of 5 eligible receivers allowed on the field.

12 Personnel
The modern two-tight end set was developed by Joe Gibbs and his Redskins staff in the early 1980s. It was created as a countermeasure against 3-4 defenses in general and Lawrence Taylor in particular. Gibbs discovered that an extra tight end on the line of scrimmage was in better position than a fullback to stop Taylor and other elite blitzers. Gibbs soon learned to use the second tight end as an all-purpose blocker: that extra tight end (usually Don Warren, back in the day) might go in motion before the snap to unbalance the offensive line, or he might slip into the backfield as a fullback or sneak into pass patterns. The modern H-back was born.

The recent return of the H-back and the two-tight end set can partially be credited to comebacks by the 3-4 defense and by Gibbs. But it is also an adjustment to the personnel that is currently available. Colleges send the NFL plenty of quality tight end prospects every year, most of them top athletes who are able to run, block, and catch. Meanwhile, most college fullbacks are slow-footed lead blockers. Pro coaches need the versatility that the tight ends provide, and multi-tight end sets allow them to mass as many as four eligible receivers near the line of scrimmage. Those extra tight ends give coaches plenty of options in the passing game.

The 12 personnel has the ability to generate different looks and lineups each and every time the offense takes the field. It can go from its standard look, to an unbalanced set by creating a disadvantage for the opposing teams defense when it comes to gap control. The 12 personnel package can also be known to use motions to determine the strength in a particular play design to which I explained earlier. This can create gap control issues in the run defense while still offering vertical passing at the same time.

11 Personnel
11 Personnel is one of the most popular offensive groupings today because of the flexibility it provides offensive coaches, and the mismatches it can create.

This is especially true if the offense has a talented tight end who not only blocks well but also run routes and has good hands.
Simultaneously, 11 Personnel will spread the defense out and force them to make key decisions on their own personnel.
They can either bring an extra cornerback on the field for the three wide receivers, have a safety cover one of the wide receivers, or have a linebacker responsible for one of the receivers.
Any way you slice it, there's a potential mismatch on passing plays.

In addition, 11 Personnel can gain an enormous advantage at the tight end position, both in the run game and in the pass game.
Defenses again have to make a choice here -- bring in a nickelback to cover against potential pass routes or stick with a linebacker to provide extra run support.

Either way, the offense can gain advantages with the right tight end.
On running plays, the tight end adds another run gap to the outside.
While on passing plays, the tight end either has a speed and skill advantage over a linebacker or a size advantage over a nickelback.

11 Personnel is very tricky to defend.

Trips formation is when three WRs are packed together on one side of the field. The name comes from the three, or triple, WRs. This can lead to crossing patterns at close range that aids in confusing opponents and losing a WR's defender. Depending on which side of the field the WRs line up you may hear the play referenced as "trips right" or "trips left."

The spread offense has many variations within its own category but typically results in at least four WRs spread amongst the field on both sides, thus the name. This spreads out the defense and allows for bigger areas of the field to be open for WRs to catch passes. This formation is used much more today than in the early days of the NFL.

Most defenses will counter it with five defensive backs, two linebackers and four defensive linemen.
They typically will also run hybrid man-to-man and zone coverages.
The three cornerbacks will all match up man-to-man on one of the wide receivers.
The free safety will remain deep down the middle to help in pass coverage.
The strong safety will creep toward the line of scrimmage near the tight end to protect against the run and help cover the tight end in passing downs.
In other words, the 11 Personnel is a very balanced offensive approach.

Not only does it require the defense to make its own personnel choices, but the players can't lean on run-heavy or pass-heavy tendencies.

QB/RB positioning in 12 personnel is usually QB under center with RB 3-5 yds setup behind the QB to build up speed prior to getting the handoff. Down and distance will sometimes put the QB in shotgun formation.

howtheyplay.com
Jesse UnkMay 16, 2023 11:50 PM EDT

The shotgun formation takes place when the QB no longer lines up directly behind the center, but is about five yards behind him. This allows for the QB to have a better view of the field, as well as gives him more time to throw the ball. The formation has many variations, including the standard version, the spread, trips, and others. The shotgun formation was invented by Coach Red Hickey in 1960 when he coached the 49ers, though it famously led to the success of the Cowboys in the 70's and the Bills in the 90's. The shotgun is used primarily as a passing formation but can be used to run out of on certain occasions. Most NFL teams with great QBs operate out of the shotgun because it compliments their skillset best.

The standard shotgun formation typically has the HB lined up next to the QB, with two wideout WRs, a slot WR, and a TE.

The pistol formation is similar to the shotgun, except for the QB is only about three yards behind center, with the HB lined up directly behind him. This was invented in 2004 by Coach Chris Ault at the University of Nevada and has since been used in many colleges as well as some NFL teams. The pistol offers a few dimensions to the running options in a shotgun formation. Where running is seldom used in the shotgun, the pistol allows for a few plays because it disrupts the timing of the defense with handoffs being so far away. This allows for "option plays", where a QB and RB mask their handoff and read the defense to see who they'll pursue. This gives them the "option" to either rush the QB or RB. The pistol was used heavily with the San Francisco 49ers when they had Colin Kaepernick at QB and made their Superbowl run.

[tarlhawk]

I'm anticipating that as Jaxon Smith-Njigba develops and gains NFL respect that the Seahawks will increase their use of 11 Personnel. Some recent camp banter has also been touting Dee Eskridge looking "explosive" once again. Dee can at least push JSN in camp to quickly develop from competition. Dareke Young is probably our best blocking WR and in a 11 Personnel set could offer rushing options for our RB featured in 11 Personnel. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

I think they should use the shotgun/pistol formation sparingly and have the QB mainly under Center.
With a strong stable of RBs and at least 2 being good pass catchers, this also opens up the RBs to pressure the Defenses regardless of their formation of base Defense.
Simply put there are too many opportunities in the pass game to get some very good mismatches to pass up and add in the possible threat of a run play or by using the play action, Defenses will have a lot to consider and just maybe hesitate a half step thus giving separation to any of the receivers or allowing a larger hole for the RB to run through. We could even use 2 RBs and be very successful.
If permitted by Pete, this Offense could be very, very good.

[tarlhawk]

We could even use 2 RBs and be very successful.

I was watching some old film of when the Raiders used two back sets featuring Bo Jackson and Marcus Allen. Perhaps Walker/Charbonnet or even Walker/McIntosh with McIntosh shifting out into a slot position. Go Hawks

[NorthHawk]

I've heard some comments suggesting McIntosh could play the Deebo role upon occasion with jet sweeps or pass routes off of motion.
I think he could be more than just a RB.

[RiverDog]

We could even use 2 RBs and be very successful.

I was watching some old film of when the Raiders used two back sets featuring Bo Jackson and Marcus Allen. Perhaps Walker/Charbonnet or even Walker/McIntosh with McIntosh shifting out into a slot position. Go Hawks

Most two back formations I've seen employed involve a running back and a fullback, and neither of our 3 RB's can fill the role of a fullback.

We're also forgetting about DeeJay Dallas, who at least McIntosh will be competing with for snaps.

[NorthHawk]

You are out of date. Most teams don't carry FBs but you will sometimes see 2 RBs on the field.
Teams are using 2 back systems with both as RBs and neither playing the traditional FB. Peyton used it in NO and wants to do the same in Denver, but when he had Kamara, he had a real good option out of the backfield for either a run or pass.
There's also the option to put one in the slot or like SF does with Deebo Samuel and move him all around sometimes at RB, and sometimes as a Receiver.
McIntosh should surpass Dallas because he has more to offer. Not only as a RB, but as mentioned a receiving threat. He comes into the NFL already experienced in finding holes in the Defense and running routes.
Unless of course, Pete decides to throttle back the Offense and offensive creativity.

[RiverDog]

You are out of date. Most teams don't carry FBs but you will sometimes see 2 RBs on the field.
Teams are using 2 back systems with both as RBs and neither playing the traditional FB. Peyton used it in NO and wants to do the same in Denver, but when he had Kamara, he had a real good option out of the backfield for either a run or pass.
There's also the option to put one in the slot or like SF does with Deebo Samuel and move him all around sometimes at RB, and sometimes as a Receiver.
McIntosh should surpass Dallas because he has more to offer. Not only as a RB, but as mentioned a receiving threat. He comes into the NFL already experienced in finding holes in the Defense and running routes.
Unless of course, Pete decides to throttle back the Offense and offensive creativity.

They may not carry pure FB's anymore, but they employ RB's that have some of those same traits, ie good blockers, in a 2 back set, like we did with Nick Bellore and Travis Homer and the Niners do with Kyle Jusczcyk.

My point is that we're making a lot of assumptions, particularly about a 7th round, 237th overall pick that might not even make the team.

[NorthHawk]

We were one of the last teams to carry a true FB. That's part of the old Peteball Offense.
Sure, one may block a little, but both can be explosive beyond what the Mack Strong type of FB we used to see and therefore provide many more options out of the backfield.
McIntosh should be able to be starting material. His only flaw was his Combine speed, but his game speed is a lot better.
He can be a real weapon - if Pete allows the Offense to develop as it should.

[RiverDog]

We were one of the last teams to carry a true FB. That's part of the old Peteball Offense.
Sure, one may block a little, but both can be explosive beyond what the Mack Strong type of FB we used to see and therefore provide many more options out of the backfield.
McIntosh should be able to be starting material. His only flaw was his Combine speed, but his game speed is a lot better.
He can be a real weapon - if Pete allows the Offense to develop as it should.

The odds of a 7th round draft pick even making a roster are about 1 in 3, so don't bet a lot of money on your hunch that McIntosh is starting material.

[Aseahawkfan]

McIntosh doesn't sound like your usual 7th round pick, but he has to prove it too.

[Old but Slow]

There is an interesting facet of the shotgun versus under center snap. With the shotgun, the QB must first catch the snap, which means he is not looking at the defense for a moment, while the under center snap allows the QB to watch the defense steadily. During that moment while the QB is watching the snap, the defensive players are making their first step, which would seem to be an advantage for the defense. However, it seems the best signal callers don't find that a problem and prefer the advantage of already being at passing depth.

[NorthHawk]

The QB won't get stepped on by the Center!
However, many teams are much more effective with the QB under Center because it causes the Defense to have to read what the play is going to be. Whereas even though the Offense can hand the ball off, most of the plays in either pistol or shotgun are pass plays and the DL know where the QB will probably be. QBs like Lamar Jackson with their run ability nullify any advantage of being under Center but they are few and far between.

[tarlhawk]

Geno seems comfortable under center as well as being in shotgun formation. His athleticism and arm talent provide huge boosts to his playing confidence. Both 11 and 12 Personnel provide a very flexible responsive attack for Geno to exploit...especially with new "weapons" adding even further range and variety to what our offense "presents" to our opponent trying to get a quick read on our intentions...Good Luck (not)! Go Hawks

[RiverDog]

There is an interesting facet of the shotgun versus under center snap. With the shotgun, the QB must first catch the snap, which means he is not looking at the defense for a moment, while the under center snap allows the QB to watch the defense steadily. During that moment while the QB is watching the snap, the defensive players are making their first step, which would seem to be an advantage for the defense. However, it seems the best signal callers don't find that a problem and prefer the advantage of already being at passing depth.

That's a minor point when compared to the advantage of not having to turn your back to about 30% of the field for several seconds when you're dropping back to pass.

[Old but Slow]

True, a minor point. Veering slightly, with the changes in college football offenses, some of the quarterbacks never take the ball from under center. Everything is run off the shotgun. That can be a big adjustment for some of them when they get into a pro offense.

Oh, yeah, another subject; June 1 is the date after which players can be cut with less impact on the salary cap. Jamal (cough) Adams?

[RiverDog]

True, a minor point. Veering slightly, with the changes in college football offenses, some of the quarterbacks never take the ball from under center. Everything is run off the shotgun. That can be a big adjustment for some of them when they get into a pro offense.

Oh, yeah, another subject; June 1 is the date after which players can be cut with less impact on the salary cap. Jamal (cough) Adams?

Yeah, many college offenses are almost exclusively ran out of a shotgun to such a point that it's a concern for NFL teams. It's one of those things that has come full circle as in my dad's day, they never had a conventional quarterback over center, either.

I had forgotten about the June 1st marker, and it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they cut bait with Adams.