Witherspoon

[TriCitySam]

It's disappointing that Witherspoon is not reporting. Contract not signed and the issue is not how much he gets, but rather how the signing bonus paid out...All up front or part next year....a rather minor issue to go to battle over when, as a rookie, you need to be there.

[Aseahawkfan]

Seems strange he would hold out for this. Not a great start in my opinion. Shows the guy is more of a "me" player than a team player.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah, sure has a "we got us a diva" look about it. Hope it's resolved quick.

[RiverDog]

Charbonnet was late in signing his contract, too, so something must be holding things up besides the attitude of the players involved. It's hard to imagine a rookie not signing his contract as there's not that much to be gained and a lot to lose.

The only thing he can gain is getting his money earlier rather than later. The Hawks have painted themselves into a corner and need the cap space this year, so they'd rather defer Witherspoon's money. But that seems like a silly reason to hold out.

[jshawaii22]

According to some wag, we 'never' give 100% signing bonuses up front. We split it out.... Well, he's the #5 pick and he wants it all NOW. I'll take a wild stab that the 4 players picked ahead of him all got 100% of their bonuses at signing. Seems rather petty to me as he still has 100% of the contract guaranteed.

[RiverDog]

According to some wag, we 'never' give 100% signing bonuses up front. We split it out.... Well, he's the #5 pick and he wants it all NOW. I'll take a wild stab that the 4 players picked ahead of him all got 100% of their bonuses at signing. Seems rather petty to me as he still has 100% of the contract guaranteed.

My understanding is that 3 of the 4 players taken ahead of Witherspoon received contracts with 100% of the bonus money up front. Will Anderson, the #3 pick taken by the Texans, received 85% of his bonus money in the first year. I don't have a source that confirms that, though.

It seems very silly to me, too. If I'm Witherspoon, I'm itching to get on the field and start competing. If he holds out simply for a few extra bucks up front, it's going to be a reflection on his character to be holding out for such a minor point.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Aggravating. Both sides want to do what's best for them, but I can't imagine they are screwing Witherspoon. If he' getting 75% now with rest coming little later, I don't know why he would jeopardize training camp participation. I understand time value of money, but he's about to be in the NFL. The best of the best at the sport he's playing. His best still has another level to reach to be successful at that level. I'll never have their perspective, but I would think being in training camp as a rookie has much more important long-term implications than the fraction of his bonus.

Who all benefits? Obviously the player, but are agents pushing this to get their cut too?

Hope it gets worked out soon; Woolen, Jackson, and Bryant played substantially last season, and I would guess they aren't looking to concede playing time. Tre Brown is probably anxious to comeback and show what he can do. Witherspoon won't be handed the job or PT just because he signs; even less so if he reports late.

[NorthHawk]

I don't know the answer to this question but I wonder if the bonus affects the Cash payouts from a CAP perspective.
Meaning if they pay it all out at once there is less Cash space to convert existing contracts and free up general CAP space (like we did earlier with Lockett).
Maybe it doesn't affect it at all, and if not why would the team not just pay it out at once like other teams?

[c_hawkbob]

Well at least he didn't drag it out:

Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN
Seattle’s No. 5 overall pick Devon Witherspoon is now taking part in Seahawks training camp, per source. ‘He’s in.’ Looks like contract is getting worked out.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Well at least he didn't drag it out:

Jeremy Fowler
@JFowlerESPN
Seattle’s No. 5 overall pick Devon Witherspoon is now taking part in Seahawks training camp, per source. ‘He’s in.’ Looks like contract is getting worked out.

Very good news and throws a wet blanket on my previous post. Would rather that outcome anyway!

[RiverDog]

Yep, he's signed:

Seattle and Witherspoon have agreed to a fully-guaranteed rookie deal. It’s worth $31.86 million and has a signing bonus of $20.17 million.

That signing bonus was the sticking point in Witherspoon’s contract. Specifically, how much would be paid up-front (better for the player) and how much deferred to another time (better for the team) There’s no word yet on what arrangement was reached on that part.

https://seahawkswire.usatoday.com/2023/ ... ington-rb/

[Agent 86]

I just want to proclaim my man crush on this guy. Holy lick, since the 1st quarter of week #2 in Detroit, I have been swept off my feet by Witherspoon

Last night was the stuff dreams are made of for your first MNF appearance. I know it's early, but could not have asked for a better start to this man's career as a Seahawk. I know the comparisons to Jalen Carter will be prominent in Seahawks fandom, I would say so far so good.

[Aseahawkfan]

Two games in and he's definitely living up to the tape and the hype. He's very aggressive.

[RiverDog]

Two games in and he's definitely living up to the tape and the hype. He's very aggressive.

I was at the game last night, and 'Spoon was in person everything that he appeared to be on TV, and I'm not just talking about the pick 6. That blind side QB sack looked like he was shot out of a cannon. He seems to thrive around the LOS. He was everywhere, making tackles for loss, breaking up passes. Plus, this was only his third game and likely the first game where he felt comfortable enough to perform as he did. I'm as impressed with that game from him last night than any single game out of and other rookie I can think of.

And for those of you who were disappointed that we didn't take Jalen Carter with our 5th overall, the QB sacks score stands at Witherspoon 2, Carter 1.5.

[Agent 86]

I was at the game last night, and 'Spoon was in person everything that he appeared to be on TV, and I'm not just talking about the pick 6. That blind side QB sack looked like he was shot out of a cannon. He seems to thrive around the LOS. He was everywhere, making tackles for loss, breaking up passes. Plus, this was only his third game and likely the first game where he felt comfortable enough to perform as he did. I'm as impressed with that game from him last night than any single game out of and other rookie I can think of.

And for those of you who were disappointed that we didn't take Jalen Carter with our 5th overall, the QB sacks score stands at Witherspoon 2, Carter 1.5.

Awesome you were at the game last night Riv! And agreed, I can't recall a rookie putting on a single game show like 'Spoon did last night. He was everywhere.

After the pick 6, it was very evident on TV that the Seahawks fans took over that stadium. Could definitely hear the Seahawks chants going on and alot of cheering on those sacks in the 4th quarter. Probably many many Giants fans were already gone they showed a picture of the line up of cars exiting the stadium late 3rd quarter. Glad you were part of the road 12's last night.

[TriCitySam]

I just want to proclaim my man crush on this guy. Holy lick, since the 1st quarter of week #2 in Detroit, I have been swept off my feet by Witherspoon

Last night was the stuff dreams are made of for your first MNF appearance. I know it's early, but could not have asked for a better start to this man's career as a Seahawk. I know the comparisons to Jalen Carter will be prominent in Seahawks fandom, I would say so far so good.

He is everything a #5 should be, and everything Pete said he was "the most physical player in the draft and has the willingness to take the shots as they become available, along his aptitude to study. Best I've seen since Troy Polamalu." And his great performance last night was in a position he has never played before (although Pete said they've been preparing him for this spot).

[RiverDog]

I was at the game last night, and 'Spoon was in person everything that he appeared to be on TV, and I'm not just talking about the pick 6. That blind side QB sack looked like he was shot out of a cannon. He seems to thrive around the LOS. He was everywhere, making tackles for loss, breaking up passes. Plus, this was only his third game and likely the first game where he felt comfortable enough to perform as he did. I'm as impressed with that game from him last night than any single game out of and other rookie I can think of.

And for those of you who were disappointed that we didn't take Jalen Carter with our 5th overall, the QB sacks score stands at Witherspoon 2, Carter 1.5.

Awesome you were at the game last night Riv! And agreed, I can't recall a rookie putting on a single game show like 'Spoon did last night. He was everywhere.

After the pick 6, it was very evident on TV that the Seahawks fans took over that stadium. Could definitely hear the Seahawks chants going on and alot of cheering on those sacks in the 4th quarter. Probably many many Giants fans were already gone they showed a picture of the line up of cars exiting the stadium late 3rd quarter. Glad you were part of the road 12's last night.

It was difficult to get a good feel as to how many 12's were in attendance as a lot of them were wearing the royal blue throwback jerseys which were the exact same base color as the Giants' home jerseys. And yeah, many of the Giants started heading towards the exit following the pick 6.

[RiverDog]

I just want to proclaim my man crush on this guy. Holy lick, since the 1st quarter of week #2 in Detroit, I have been swept off my feet by Witherspoon

Last night was the stuff dreams are made of for your first MNF appearance. I know it's early, but could not have asked for a better start to this man's career as a Seahawk. I know the comparisons to Jalen Carter will be prominent in Seahawks fandom, I would say so far so good.

He is everything a #5 should be, and everything Pete said he was "the most physical player in the draft and has the willingness to take the shots as they become available, along his aptitude to study. Best I've seen since Troy Polamalu." And his great performance last night was in a position he has never played before (although Pete said they've been preparing him for this spot).

Well, I hate to break out the anointing oil this early, but all the returns so far are overwhelmingly positive.

Sam's right about him playing a new position as they used him in the slot rather than out on an island at corner. But IMO the guy is such a hard hitter that you hate to waste that ability by playing him so far away from where the action is. Playing in the slot seems to be his natural position.

[NorthHawk]

Having never played the slot before and doing so at the NFL level says a lot about his awareness and Football IQ. Pete talked about that when he was drafted and maybe we saw some of what he was talking about at that time.
He's still going to make some mistakes and his aggressiveness will be used against him at times, but in all it could be a successful transition and it's something we need because of modern day Offenses and how they use motion and slot receivers.

[TriCitySam]

Obviously, being 181 lbs and a hard hitter....you hope the bod holds up.

[RiverDog]

Obviously, being 181 lbs and a hard hitter....you hope the bod holds up.

I'm not sure how much size makes a difference with regards to susceptibility to injury. At 181 lbs., 'Spoon isn't going to be putting nearly as much stress on his joints, tendons, etc, as players 50 pounds heavier. It would be interesting to see a study that examines the relationship between size and injuries.

[c_hawkbob]

Obviously, being 181 lbs and a hard hitter....you hope the bod holds up.

I'm not sure how much size makes a difference with regards to susceptibility to injury. At 181 lbs., 'Spoon isn't going to be putting nearly as much stress on his joints, tendons, etc, as players 50 pounds heavier. It would be interesting to see a study that examines the relationship between size and injuries.

We're not talking wear and tear here. 180 lbs hitting a 230 lb RB as hard as he does is going to be subjecting himself to a lot greater impact injury risk than say a 240lb Bobby Waggoner is. Sam's concern is valid (and shared by at least me).

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

He has to pick his shots. Earl Thomas was a smallish guy who could deliver a big hit when needed and it was usually when it was at his advantage.

On the flip side, Kam Chancellor was one of the most sound tacklers in the game and it eventually caught up with him.

I would guess anatomy and his physical fitness plays a role, too. He's 180 lbs, but also not long and lanky. His size could belie his muscle density.

Regardless, he would be wise to not be reckless with throwing his body around. No one lasts long in the NFL doing that.

[RiverDog]

Obviously, being 181 lbs and a hard hitter....you hope the bod holds up.

I'm not sure how much size makes a difference with regards to susceptibility to injury. At 181 lbs., 'Spoon isn't going to be putting nearly as much stress on his joints, tendons, etc, as players 50 pounds heavier. It would be interesting to see a study that examines the relationship between size and injuries.

We're not talking wear and tear here. 180 lbs hitting a 230 lb RB as hard as he does is going to be subjecting himself to a lot greater impact injury risk than say a 240lb Bobby Waggoner is. Sam's concern is valid (and shared by at least me).

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but I'd like to see some sort of study to validate that assumption....and until we see such a study, that's all it is, an assumption.

[RiverDog]

Witherspoon was named Defensive Player of the Week. It would have been a travesty had they given it to anyone else:

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/se ... er-of-week

Seattle Seahawks rookie cornerback Devon Witherspoon has been named the NFC Defensive Player of the Week after his monstrous breakout performance in Monday night's 24-3 win over the New York Giants at MetLife Stadium.

Witherspoon's big night was highlighted by a 97-yard pick-six that essentially sealed the game for Seattle as the Giants were looking to punch it in at the goal line while trailing 14-3 in the third quarter. Instead, Witherspoon flipped momentum in a blink and made his name known on a national stage.

But even without his interception return, it's likely the rookie would've been named Defensive Player of the Week anyway. He finished with seven total tackles (six solo), two sacks, two tackles for loss and three quarterback hits to go along with the interception. Some defensive lineman and linebackers don't put up these kind of numbers, but Witherspoon did it in just his third-career game.

I wholeheartedly agree with that last paragraph. Even if you take out the pick 6, it was an outstanding performance.

[TriCitySam]

I'm not sure how much size makes a difference with regards to susceptibility to injury. At 181 lbs., 'Spoon isn't going to be putting nearly as much stress on his joints, tendons, etc, as players 50 pounds heavier. It would be interesting to see a study that examines the relationship between size and injuries.

I think there is actually a study that shows smaller players are less like to be injury prone. But that is ALL injuries and varies by position. DB 's have the 2nd highest injury rate (RB's #1) and it is unclear as to whether DB injuries are due to size or position. But it does seem logical, as c_hawkbob points out, that usually the smaller object takes the most damage in a collision - so being a hard hitting missile against a large object one would think increases risk. For me it goes back to Easley and Chancellor, big hitters whos bods took too much punishment.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure how much size makes a difference with regards to susceptibility to injury. At 181 lbs., 'Spoon isn't going to be putting nearly as much stress on his joints, tendons, etc, as players 50 pounds heavier. It would be interesting to see a study that examines the relationship between size and injuries.

I think there is actually a study that shows smaller players are less like to be injury prone. But that is ALL injuries and varies by position. DB 's have the 2nd highest injury rate (RB's #1) and it is unclear as to whether DB injuries are due to size or position. But it does seem logical, as c_hawkbob points out, that usually the smaller object takes the most damage in a collision - so being a hard hitting missile against a large object one would think increases risk. For me it goes back to Easley and Chancellor, big hitters whos bods took too much punishment.

Then again, defensive backs are the lightest players by position, averaging 200.10 lbs, barely edging out WR's:

https://www.scottfujita.com/average-hei ... fl-player/

In order to establish a relationship, we'd have to analyze the injuries/games missed of defensive backs by weight, BMI, etc, and until we see such a study, we're both making an assumption. I can be just as logical in my assertation that the lighter a person is, the less stress is put on commonly injured body parts, like knees. After all, my doctor told me that my excess weight contributed to my need for a knee replacement.

[NorthHawk]

Physics is also involved.
A larger moving object colliding with a much smaller moving object will have less of an impact in momentum than the smaller object. So in the case of players, from the smaller player point of view it's more akin to running into a solid wall while for the larger player it's more like momentarily slowing them down. As Witherspoon is only about 180lbs, he should experience more trauma from impact than a player 40 or so pounds heavier. It's what we talked about with Adams when he was a pass rusher going against OTs and him probably getting beat up.
So Witherspoon has to pick his spots and hopefully he has the luck of timing when he hits someone (like from a side angle and when the player he's hitting happens to be on one foot at the time of the collision).
And he has to get his head out of those hits. He could have hurt his neck or back on that hit on Monday.

[RiverDog]

Physics is also involved.
A larger moving object colliding with a much smaller moving object will have less of an impact in momentum than the smaller object. So in the case of players, from the smaller player point of view it's more akin to running into a solid wall while for the larger player it's more like momentarily slowing them down. As Witherspoon is only about 180lbs, he should experience more trauma from impact than a player 40 or so pounds heavier. It's what we talked about with Adams when he was a pass rusher going against OTs and him probably getting beat up.
So Witherspoon has to pick his spots and hopefully he has the luck of timing when he hits someone (like from a side angle and when the player he's hitting happens to be on one foot at the time of the collision).
And he has to get his head out of those hits. He could have hurt his neck or back on that hit on Monday.

And that's where the position comes into play. Offensive linemen aren't as susceptible to the physics you are referring to as their contact is more push and shove than it is a guided missile launched at a running back.

It's an interesting proposition, whether or not size makes a difference in the risk of injury. I'm sure someone has studied it, but I can't seem to find anything that was published.