"0-1 is a Disaster!"

[RiverDog]

The old timers in this forum will get the humor. One of our more esteemed posters, HawkSis, who like too many of our friends has disappeared, would come up with a thread with this heading at the start of the season. It was a ritual.

But this is different. We didn't just lose the game. This has a Jim Mora feel to it, that Pete has lost control, lost the team, that the players don't respect him, that the inmates are running the asylum. Yeah, I know, we lost both our starting tackles and we were minus a couple players on defense. But 12 total yards of offense in the 2nd half? We have to go all the way back to 1979 to find a Seahawk performance that was worse.

I can't imagine a more embarrassing performance. We field a team who in some circles were thought of as SB contenders (the gal on GMF predicted us to win the NFC). We were going up against a team who had imploded last season and was minus the best receiver in the game and with a completely rebuilt OL. We put up all of 12 total yards of offense in the 2nd half when we were still very much in the game then completely fold the tent and mail it in during the 4th quarter. We saw a man child throw a tantrum, a bench that didn't seem to care.

The point of the title is that it's just one game in a 17-game regular season. We'll see how they react in Detroit. The Lions' will have had 10 days to prepare and are going to be drooling and licking their chops. They are going to have a crowd that is the most starved fan bases in the league that just got through watching their team upset the defending SB champs on the road. It's going to have a gladiators in the Colosseum feel to it. I would give us two chances to win this game: Slim and none.

We'll see what Pete's made of. If he turns it around and is at least competitive vs. the Lions, then my hat's off to him and I'll be the first to apologize. But if I see another performance anywhere near the same as what we saw yesterday, I'll be on here calling for his head.

[Spohawk5092]

this is on Pete IMO. Why the hell didn't you play more starters in the preseason Coach, esp. the Puckers game?? Clearly they were not ready for this one. And TWO yards of offense the entire second half. TWO.....

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

With 16 games left to play, it isn't a disaster, yet. Dropping your home opener to a division opponent in the manner that they did after the program looked to be heading in the right direction didn't give me any warm fuzzies. Some lessons are best learned after falling flat on your face, but this wasn't a team that was supposed to have to learn that lesson and that way. I hope this pitiful outing straightens them out, or they will head for a disaster. Detroit is every bit as good as the Rams.

Our bookends being injured is very concerning. Some of the offensive troubles in the second half would have to be attributed to them going down. If they are down a significant amount of time, that's not something that a coach can fix.

[RiverDog]

With 16 games left to play, it isn't a disaster, yet. Dropping your home opener to a division opponent in the manner that they did after the program looked to be heading in the right direction didn't give me any warm fuzzies. Some lessons are best learned after falling flat on your face, but this wasn't a team that was supposed to have to learn that lesson and that way. I hope this pitiful outing straightens them out, or they will head for a disaster. Detroit is every bit as good as the Rams.

Our bookends being injured is very concerning. Some of the offensive troubles in the second half would have to be attributed to them going down. If they are down a significant amount of time, that's not something that a coach can fix.

Well, McVay seemed to have fixed his OL troubles. The Rams offensive line has been in flux all offseason. As of last Thursday, they didn't even know what their starting lineup was going to be:

Rams are somehow still 'figuring out' their starting offensive line

For the last few weeks, we’ve gotten at least a little bit of clarity on the offensive line. Alaric Jackson looks like the starting left tackle, Steve Avila will be at left guard and Rob Havenstein is locked in at right tackle. Tremayne Anchrum Jr. appears to have the edge at right guard over Joe Noteboom, but that may not be the case based on what LaFleur is saying. And the same goes for Coleman Shelton at center, with Brian Allen also competing there.

And despite playing in one of the loudest, most challenging environments, they did just fine, allowing zero sacks, putting together 6 drives of 9+ plays with no 3-and-outs, and a 2:1 TOP advantage.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ra ... r-AA1gqTIW

By all rights, we should have beaten this team with one hand tied behind our backs.

[curmudgeon]

Looking ahead, there may be only a couple of wins on this years schedule. That would be a disaster, other than great drafting position. Unless of course, they panic and trade it away in an attempt to salvage this season…….

[NorthHawk]

Looking ahead, there may be only a couple of wins on this years schedule. That would be a disaster, other than great drafting position. Unless of course, they panic and trade it away in an attempt to salvage this season…….

The panic precedent has been made when they traded the future for Adams, so it may be in our future after next game.
The question is where or what position is in play because there were a lot of problems in yesterdays game and I think reading yesterdays news was a part of it because they weren't anywhere near NFL ready.
What is kind of odd is Pete is one of the best motivators in the game and yet they were outworked. They were also out coached, too so maybe nobody was prepared and seemingly no adjustments were made at half time because
the Rams really took it to us then.
It had the feel of the playoff game of a couple of years ago when we got trampled.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Well, McVay seemed to have fixed his OL troubles. The Rams offensive line has been in flux all offseason. As of last Thursday, they didn't even know what their starting lineup was going to be:

Rams are somehow still 'figuring out' their starting offensive line

For the last few weeks, we’ve gotten at least a little bit of clarity on the offensive line. Alaric Jackson looks like the starting left tackle, Steve Avila will be at left guard and Rob Havenstein is locked in at right tackle. Tremayne Anchrum Jr. appears to have the edge at right guard over Joe Noteboom, but that may not be the case based on what LaFleur is saying. And the same goes for Coleman Shelton at center, with Brian Allen also competing there.

And despite playing in one of the loudest, most challenging environments, they did just fine, allowing zero sacks, putting together 6 drives of 9+ plays with no 3-and-outs, and a 2:1 TOP advantage.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ra ... r-AA1gqTIW

By all rights, we should have beaten this team with one hand tied behind our backs.

Either he fixed it or we did a piss poor job of challenging them. Stafford had a ton of easy looks over the middle. Pressure was non existent; Hurt rarely sent more than 4. The OLB were consistently ridden all the way around the pocket by the tackles; where were the inside moves? DBs weren't playing anywhere close to the line. Tutu Atwell and Puka Nacua should not have had the kind of day they had. McVay got the most out of his entire team yesterday.

I don't know who to blame more; Hurt or Carroll, but, like you said, the environment and their Oline should have favored the Seahawks defense.

[RiverDog]

Either he (McVay) fixed it or we did a piss poor job of challenging them. Stafford had a ton of easy looks over the middle. Pressure was non existent; Hurt rarely sent more than 4. The OLB were consistently ridden all the way around the pocket by the tackles; where were the inside moves? DBs weren't playing anywhere close to the line. Tutu Atwell and Puka Nacua should not have had the kind of day they had. McVay got the most out of his entire team yesterday.

I don't know who to blame more; Hurt or Carroll, but, like you said, the environment and their Oline should have favored the Seahawks defense.

And that's just from a defensive standpoint. There's a ton of blame to spread around on the offensive side of the ball, too. It was the worst 30 minutes of offensive football that we've played since 1979. One first down and 12 yards of offense. And let's not forget Myers missing from 39 yards out on a perfect day.

[I-5]

Well, McVay seemed to have fixed his OL troubles.

And we sure helped McVay a lot by only rushing 4 and rarely blitzing. Stafford had a field day.

[Uppercut]

If Pete get canned, who is available. Maybe we should have pursued Payton like RW wanted ..joke lol

Sark is the man

[4XPIPS]

Well these are my thoughts, and I would agree with most of what I have read here. This game alone is an absolute disaster, and I hope it's the butt kick we need to bring our team back to reality that we are not as good as we sold ourselves to be.

Our Offense:
Our offense lacks an offensive leader, and I would hope that someone like Geno and Lockett can slap DK straight and stop letting his emotions get the best of him. Our style is far to predictable and lacks any creativity. Even Patrick Mahomes played a few series in the preseason, and Geno saw next to nothing in preseason and it showed. The protection is below average at best and the only bright spot is that our run game at times can get us in 3rd and manageable. Pete's style of run - run - pass does not work in today's offense.

Our Defense:
Am I am surprised that we gave up goal line runs for TDs, nope not at all as this defense gives up critical runs more often than not. Wait till we go up against a house hold name of a RB like a Christian McCaffrey and it will be a career night for him. Not sure if Clint Hurtt is much of an upgrade from Ken Norton, but it shows that we are stuck in the soft zone all game with a lack of pass rush. Our defense is predicated on an effective pass rush and placing our LBS and DBS in a cover zone to react to plays beneath them. Well since we can't generate much any pass rush this gives Stafford plenty of time to have his WR develop his route right across the middle and pick us a part, and he did this over and over again. You could have taken any crossing route in this game and see that our defense is a mirror image of last year, and the years prior. I am sitting there with my wife and I am telling her right before the snap, watch Stafford will drop back and take 2 to 3 secs and hit his WR right across the middle, and bam its there.

3rd downs were an absolute tough watch, didn't matter if it was 3rd and 4 or 3rd and 14+ this defense can not get off the field. I happy to see Bobby back in a Hawks uni, but father time has caught up with him and he was so out of position on lot of those short yardage runs.

Tre Brown, not sure if Michael Jackson is an upgrade, but why on earth is he out there? He can't tackle to save his life, and his coverage skills are atrocious. I guess I would have rather seen MJ out there because he can actually stick a tackle.

Pathetic Coaching:

Pure failure on both sides. Pete should be embarrassed to field a team so unready to play and not hold DK accountable for his actions. Belichick would have not tolerated this, even if the game was out of hand. There is too much individual talent on this team to lose like, hell even the Cardinals had a shot to beat the Commanders on the road.

I believe we have the talent to be a winning team, but it starts with the coaching and the team leaders and they both get an F after yesterday. It's a long season ahead and I can only hope they figure it out soon, otherwise we will be looking at quick fall grace from what was a great story last season.

[Aseahawkfan]

This season looks to be a bad one. I hope our tackles are not seriously hurt because Geno 100% needs an O-line to function well at all. He doesn't do well under pressure.

This season will be one of the worst in recent memory if our tackles do not come back healthy and ready to give Geno time to operate. Geno is not Prime Russ or any running QB. He'll get ripped apart if our tackles are gone.

[4XPIPS]

This season looks to be a bad one. I hope our tackles are not seriously hurt because Geno 100% needs an O-line to function well at all. He doesn't do well under pressure.

There was a study I read about a year ago, and for the life of me I can not find it, but it's a study of where injuries are more frequent since they implemented all these new rules on how much contact was allowed during the offseason through OTA and training camps, and how teams have progressed to not playing starters. For most of who has played football once upon a time all know the factor of "hardening your body up." This was necessary before the season started to prepare ourselves for the contact. Now I am no expert on physical health, but from what I read is the slow down on physical contact during the offseason and through all training camps has reduced the day to day contact necessary to prepare and withstand the hits on gamedays, and thus resulting in more injuries. Most injuries weren't major but even a minor injury like a sore shoulder could cause an NFL athlete to miss a week or two.

Wish more of these starters were out playing during preseason to better prepare themselves. Hopefully we get our bookends back soon.

[RiverDog]

Well these are my thoughts, and I would agree with most of what I have read here. This game alone is an absolute disaster, and I hope it's the butt kick we need to bring our team back to reality that we are not as good as we sold ourselves to be.

Our Offense:
Our offense lacks an offensive leader, and I would hope that someone like Geno and Lockett can slap DK straight and stop letting his emotions get the best of him. Our style is far to predictable and lacks any creativity. Even Patrick Mahomes played a few series in the preseason, and Geno saw next to nothing in preseason and it showed. The protection is below average at best and the only bright spot is that our run game at times can get us in 3rd and manageable. Pete's style of run - run - pass does not work in today's offense.

Our Defense:
Am I am surprised that we gave up goal line runs for TDs, nope not at all as this defense gives up critical runs more often than not. Wait till we go up against a house hold name of a RB like a Christian McCaffrey and it will be a career night for him. Not sure if Clint Hurtt is much of an upgrade from Ken Norton, but it shows that we are stuck in the soft zone all game with a lack of pass rush. Our defense is predicated on an effective pass rush and placing our LBS and DBS in a cover zone to react to plays beneath them. Well since we can't generate much any pass rush this gives Stafford plenty of time to have his WR develop his route right across the middle and pick us a part, and he did this over and over again. You could have taken any crossing route in this game and see that our defense is a mirror image of last year, and the years prior. I am sitting there with my wife and I am telling her right before the snap, watch Stafford will drop back and take 2 to 3 secs and hit his WR right across the middle, and bam its there.

3rd downs were an absolute tough watch, didn't matter if it was 3rd and 4 or 3rd and 14+ this defense can not get off the field. I happy to see Bobby back in a Hawks uni, but father time has caught up with him and he was so out of position on lot of those short yardage runs.

Tre Brown, not sure if Michael Jackson is an upgrade, but why on earth is he out there? He can't tackle to save his life, and his coverage skills are atrocious. I guess I would have rather seen MJ out there because he can actually stick a tackle.

Pathetic Coaching:

Pure failure on both sides. Pete should be embarrassed to field a team so unready to play and not hold DK accountable for his actions. Belichick would have not tolerated this, even if the game was out of hand. There is too much individual talent on this team to lose like, hell even the Cardinals had a shot to beat the Commanders on the road.

I believe we have the talent to be a winning team, but it starts with the coaching and the team leaders and they both get an F after yesterday. It's a long season ahead and I can only hope they figure it out soon, otherwise we will be looking at quick fall grace from what was a great story last season.

Those are all good observations.

This weekend, although far from make-or-break, takes on increased importance. Under the 16 game, 12 playoff teams format, if a team went 0-2 to start the season, they had a 12% chance of making the playoffs. Once you factor in the 17 game, 14 team format, it probably increases it closer to 20%. But that still doesn't do my heart any good knowing that we have just a 1 in 5 chance of making the playoffs.

The other thing to consider is our opponents. The Niners looked great, demolished the Steelers on the road, pretty much had their way with them, and their best player, Joey Bosa, didn't play a heck of a lot as he just ended his holdout a couple days before the game. We play them twice.

Then there's the Cowboys, a 40-0 winner on the road against a team that made it out of the wild card round last year. And let's not forget the Bengals, who have gone to the AFC Championship the last two seasons in a row, winning one of them. We play them in their house, too. Plus, we have the defending NFC Champion Eagles on the docket.

If we don't get our chit together, get things turned around and do so quickly, this season could go sideways in a hurry, and we'll be debating who to take with our top 10 draft pick. That's not a prediction, it's a fear, like getting a visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future.

[Stream Hawk]

Jalen Carter hauntings begin. He was a freaking STUD yesterday. However, I could see him playing here and just disappearing. I think Hurtt/Carroll's defense is the weak link on this team. Another poster commented on the scheme requiring a solid pass rush to work; we don't have that. We really do not have the talent either. A Carter pick would have started an influx of D line talent. Teams that win with defense (Philly, Dallas, and SF to name a few) all start with a dominant D Line. Heck, look at Detroit's line with Hutchinson. We will see how they dominate us next week.

I am very disappointed that I drank the Kool-Aid. Unless we pull off a season-saving victory next week in Detroit, I will join River in calling for Pete's head. It sucks, but this is a "what have you done for me lately" business and we are now a decade removed from dominance.

[4XPIPS]

Jalen Carter hauntings begin. He was a freaking STUD yesterday. However, I could see him playing here and just disappearing. I think Hurtt/Carroll's defense is the weak link on this team. Another poster commented on the scheme requiring a solid pass rush to work; we don't have that. We really do not have the talent either. A Carter pick would have started an influx of D line talent. Teams that win with defense (Philly, Dallas, and SF to name a few) all start with a dominant D Line. Heck, look at Detroit's line with Hutchinson. We will see how they dominate us next week.

I am very disappointed that I drank the Kool-Aid. Unless we pull off a season-saving victory next week in Detroit, I will join River in calling for Pete's head. It sucks, but this is a "what have you done for me lately" business and we are now a decade removed from dominance.

Well to be fair, until we see Witherspoon actually hit the field and contribute it will be hard to judge if Jalen would have been the better pick, but I don't think you are wrong in thinking this way. Jalen is a beast, and I think he would help our current D as it seems that our defense relies much on individual talent to beat their man and get to the QB, and that isn't happening. Jalen's comp is pretty close to an Aaron Donald type of player, and the fact he is destroying the o-line through the pre-season and registered a sack yesterday already shows me that he was the better pick.

You can't say the seahawks haven't tried to find that talent through the draft. I would say anything from 2nd round and up to 1st is a quality pick.

2023 2nd Round Derrick Hall (yet to be seen)
2022 2nd Round Boye Mafe (showing some burst)
2020 2nd Round Darrell Taylor (one hit wonder, has not done much lately)
2019 1st Round LJ Collier (gave us nothing)
2017 1st Round Malik McDowell (freak accident)
2016 2nd Round Jareen Reed (he's back! and but not much of a pass rusher)

*Are we a bad at scouting and talent evaluation?*

This is the last 7 years of drafting with just the first two rounds, and you can see John and Pete have been trying to find the solution to front. Are we really bad at scouting, or what about when you get a 1st round talent in 2015 like Frank Clark but you can't figure out a way to make it work with him and you trade him away right in his prime. I think this paints a picture of the hawks knowing darn well they have a non effective pass rush and keep firing away at the draft. I know time will tell if Mafe or Hall will become those edge rushers that can impact a game, but we shall see.

You mentioned Dallas;Philly and SF, and I believe the body type of a inside linebacker has changed over the years and Pete can't see it that way. The Bobby Wagner body type of MLB is far from what a Micah Parson body type. LBs today have to be able attack the line and be strong tacklers, but also drop back and cover tall tight ends along with shifty Cooper Kupp type WRs in the slot. Pete's old school mentality of LB may be the reason why we are getting scorched game after game with no name WRs. Puka Nacua had a career day on 15 targets, 10 rec 119 yards, and if Stafford had a healthy Cooper Kupp.... who knows what Kupp would have done with 15 targets.

[Aseahawkfan]

This is the most unprepared I've seen a team look in the Carroll Era. This team looked checked out, unprepared, and lacked intensity.

[NorthHawk]

Apparently we are hosting Jason Peters because of the OT injuries.
Nobody expected us to lose both but it seems it’s exposed our lack of depth with neither being NFL quality even for a short term.

It’s also a concern with it now being known that Lucas has some type of chronic issue with one of his knees.

[RiverDog]

Jalen Carter hauntings begin. He was a freaking STUD yesterday. However, I could see him playing here and just disappearing. I think Hurtt/Carroll's defense is the weak link on this team. Another poster commented on the scheme requiring a solid pass rush to work; we don't have that. We really do not have the talent either. A Carter pick would have started an influx of D line talent. Teams that win with defense (Philly, Dallas, and SF to name a few) all start with a dominant D Line. Heck, look at Detroit's line with Hutchinson. We will see how they dominate us next week.

I am very disappointed that I drank the Kool-Aid. Unless we pull off a season-saving victory next week in Detroit, I will join River in calling for Pete's head. It sucks, but this is a "what have you done for me lately" business and we are now a decade removed from dominance.

I don't care if Carter ends up in the HOF. It was the right decision to pass on him. Way too much of a risk to spend a #5 overall.

[NorthHawk]

He wouldn't have had the same support system here. In Philadelphia he has a lot of veterans and a talent laden DL to take the pressure off of him as well he has a lot of former team mates that provide a sense of
comfort in his early years. The pressure on him here would have been enormous and I'm not sure how he would handle it. Add that to the character concerns and it wouldn't be a good fit IMO.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't care if Carter ends up in the HOF. It was the right decision to pass on him. Way too much of a risk to spend a #5 overall.

Completely disagree. But you knew I would didn't ya?

[HawkSis]

R E L A X! We will be just fine, just watch.

[HawkSis]

And I am so sad I didn’t strike first with this thread, but retirement takes up a lot of my free time.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

He wouldn't have had the same support system here. In Philadelphia he has a lot of veterans and a talent laden DL to take the pressure off of him as well he has a lot of former team mates that provide a sense of
comfort in his early years. The pressure on him here would have been enormous and I'm not sure how he would handle it. Add that to the character concerns and it wouldn't be a good fit IMO.

This is pretty much it. Having Jordan Davis and Fletcher Cox is an ideal situation for him.

[RiverDog]

And I am so sad I didn’t strike first with this thread, but retirement takes up a lot of my free time.

Nice to see you again, Sis! Sorry to have stolen your thunder, but we couldn't let a season go by without a disaster thread, especially the way our season has started.

[4XPIPS]

And I am so sad I didn’t strike first with this thread, but retirement takes up a lot of my free time.

Excuse me for being naive here, but doesn't retirement afford your more free time? I am trying not to say it in a way like I am being rude, but I am just curious.

[4XPIPS]

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/seattle-seahawks-tre-brown-julian-love-los-angeles-rams-week-1-defense-youth-second-half


Here is a nice little write up on how much of a disaster Tre Brown was for us. That sad part was that we didn't make adjustments through out the game and stayed in our soft zone coverage through out the game. I believe everyone deserves a shot and I know Tre Brown was injured early on when he was drafted, but has he even shown enough to warrant being a back up player? It's like we swapped Tre Flowers for Tre Brown and not much has changed since.

[RiverDog]

https://www.si.com/nfl/seahawks/news/seattle-seahawks-tre-brown-julian-love-los-angeles-rams-week-1-defense-youth-second-half


Here is a nice little write up on how much of a disaster Tre Brown was for us. That sad part was that we didn't make adjustments through out the game and stayed in our soft zone coverage through out the game. I believe everyone deserves a shot and I know Tre Brown was injured early on when he was drafted, but has he even shown enough to warrant being a back up player? It's like we swapped Tre Flowers for Tre Brown and not much has changed since.

The biggest problem with our pass defense was our pass rush, or lack thereof. I read somewhere that in addition to zero sacks, we had just one QB hit. The best secondary in the league isn't going to hold up under that lack pressure, especially when you have a veteran QB like Mathew Stafford back there.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

The biggest problem with our pass defense was our pass rush, or lack thereof. I read somewhere that in addition to zero sacks, we had just one QB hit. The best secondary in the league isn't going to hold up under that lack pressure, especially when you have a veteran QB like Mathew Stafford back there.

I was surprised our OLB's consistently went wide and let the OT's ride them all the way around the pocket. Very few attempts at inside moves. Coupled with know push in center, Stafford had no trouble stepping up. Hurt has to figure this out. Going to have to take some risks and send more than 4 guys.

[NorthHawk]

No pass rush and an umbrella type scheme that keeps everything in front of the defender (or supposed to) but it leaves a vulnerability in the intermediate areas where the Rams kept completing passes and keeping drives alive.
If this isn't fixed, with a much better Lions OL, and Goff with his receivers we could be in for a long day. The good thing is it would be over by 11am and I could get some work done around the house.

[RiverDog]

The biggest problem with our pass defense was our pass rush, or lack thereof. I read somewhere that in addition to zero sacks, we had just one QB hit. The best secondary in the league isn't going to hold up under that lack pressure, especially when you have a veteran QB like Mathew Stafford back there.

I was surprised our OLB's consistently went wide and let the OT's ride them all the way around the pocket. Very few attempts at inside moves. Coupled with know push in center, Stafford had no trouble stepping up. Hurt has to figure this out. Going to have to take some risks and send more than 4 guys.

That would make sense if you're trying to contain a mobile QB like Mahomes or Allen. But Stafford isn't much of a running threat, so I would think that the object would be to move him off his spot.

[I-5]

I don't care if Carter ends up in the HOF. It was the right decision to pass on him. Way too much of a risk to spend a #5 overall.

If Carter ends up in the HOF, I think it will be a major whiff for every team that passed on him, including the Seahawks who arguably needed his talent the most. Risk just means risk, it doesn't mean that he will always be a red flag given the right mentoring in the right environment. It looks like he has that right now.

[4XPIPS]

We drafted Bruce Irvin in the first round who had character flaws and off the field issues. So weren't immune to not taking risk on players in the draft with prior or current off the field issues, but passing on Carter for Witherspoon will be something we will debate over time if Carter turns into an Aaron Donald type of player.

[RiverDog]

We drafted Bruce Irvin in the first round who had character flaws and off the field issues. So weren't immune to not taking risk on players in the draft with prior or current off the field issues, but passing on Carter for Witherspoon will be something we will debate over time if Carter turns into an Aaron Donald type of player.

Irvin's character issues were nothing compared to the red flags that were associated with Carter. If you want a fair comparison, trading for Percy Harvin given his character issues would be a closer analogy, but even that's quite a stretch.

[4XPIPS]

Irvin's character issues were nothing compared to the red flags that were associated with Carter. If you want a fair comparison, trading for Percy Harvin given his character issues would be a closer analogy, but even that's quite a stretch.

I agree, the level of a "red flag" severity does carry weight, but I guess I was trying to justify that the Seahawks have drafted players in the past who have had some baggage. Certainly high speed racing resulting in the death of a colleague reflects poorly on his judgement. It's still a head scratcher because of the pain of winning at what cost sometimes reflects poorly on who you win with.

[RiverDog]

[

Irvin's character issues were nothing compared to the red flags that were associated with Carter. If you want a fair comparison, trading for Percy Harvin given his character issues would be a closer analogy, but even that's quite a stretch.

I agree, the level of a "red flag" severity does carry weight, but I guess I was trying to justify that the Seahawks have drafted players in the past who have had some baggage. Certainly high speed racing resulting in the death of a colleague reflects poorly on his judgement. It's still a head scratcher because of the pain of winning at what cost sometimes reflects poorly on who you win with.

Sure, we've drafted a few players with some 'red flag' issues, and we're not alone in that regard. Without any evidence to support my suspicion, my guess is that every team in the league has taken risks as great or greater than those we've taken.

But Carter had 3 or 4 'red flags', including his weight gain, his lax performance at his pro day, and his disappearing act in the CFB playoffs. His were far and above anyone we've ever taken in a draft, at least in my flawed memory. The only player I can think of that was even remotely close was Frank Clark, but even his 'red flag' was singular and non-football related. Carter had multiple issues, both football and non-football related.

The other thing here is that we're talking about a #5 overall, which greatly increased the risk. Clark was drafted in the 2nd round. Plus, you have to consider the PR pressure on such a visible gamble, that it's the type of move which costs HC's and GM's their jobs if they miss. My theory about the Eagles taking Carter is that they could afford to take the PR hit due to their unexpected SB run the year before. A team like the Broncos or Browns might not have the balls to take such a risk.

[NorthHawk]

And him falling to #9 after being hyped as a possible #1 pick might have opened his eyes a little that the NFL is different from College and there are a lot of players that are almost as good that will take your job in a flash.
I think it will be a few years before we see the real Carter and if he's able to keep playing and practicing at the highest level. As well, how he comes back from injury will say a lot about him if he's willing to go through the long term rehab.