Chubb

[TriCitySam]

One of the uglier I've ever seen...

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/17 ... mp4?tag=12

[RiverDog]

One of the uglier I've ever seen...

https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/17 ... mp4?tag=12

Ouch! Not quite Joe Theismann ugly, but close:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUIf5m0bgu0

I was wondering why they didn't show it on replay last night.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah I don't believe I'll open that link ... too bad though, I like Chubb.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not going to open the link, either. Seeing it once is enough.

He had a similar injury in college and they thought it was career threatening, but he was much younger then and fully recovered.
PFT said he's going to be out about $14M next year because of this and it's why I never begrudge players who demand to get paid. The old 'the next play might be your last' saying is very true in Football.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not watching this. I hate these kind of injuries.

[4XPIPS]

I hate to be the one to say this, but this validates the perception of how top end RBS will never get huge money contracts anymore. RBs are such an integral part of any teams success, especially if they are a top talent and take on such a huge work load. However, the rookie contracts puts RBs in such a disadvantage when it comes to contract negotiations, as teams can burn through young RBs and when it comes time to pony up respectable money they can franchise tag them or go draft the next young RB and fill in the spot. It sad when players like Barkley, Taylor, Jacobs can't even sniff half the money a top QB can get guaranteed. QBs are breaking the $50mil/year threshold, and why can't an elite RB make $25 mil/year? Well this sort of explains the risk organizations are not willing to take on RBs. I think the league needs to adjust the rookie contract requirements if you coming out as a RB, and allow them to "not be franchise tagged" and shorten their pick up options down to just two years. Give RBs the chance to surf the market and get more guaranteed money upfront.

I like Chubb a lot and truly sad to see him get hurt, and even Barkley got injured this week too but not as severe. This almost make me think if you are a top talent in College as an RB you may want to switch to be coming a WR.

[EmeraldBullet]

I hate to be the one to say this, but this validates the perception of how top end RBS will never get huge money contracts anymore. RBs are such an integral part of any teams success, especially if they are a top talent and take on such a huge work load. However, the rookie contracts puts RBs in such a disadvantage when it comes to contract negotiations, as teams can burn through young RBs and when it comes time to pony up respectable money they can franchise tag them or go draft the next young RB and fill in the spot. It sad when players like Barkley, Taylor, Jacobs can't even sniff half the money a top QB can get guaranteed. QBs are breaking the $50mil/year threshold, and why can't an elite RB make $25 mil/year? Well this sort of explains the risk organizations are not willing to take on RBs. I think the league needs to adjust the rookie contract requirements if you coming out as a RB, and allow them to "not be franchise tagged" and shorten their pick up options down to just two years. Give RBs the chance to surf the market and get more guaranteed money upfront.

I like Chubb a lot and truly sad to see him get hurt, and even Barkley got injured this week too but not as severe. This almost make me think if you are a top talent in College as an RB you may want to switch to be coming a WR.

Im not sure when the next contract negotiations are between nfl and the players association but imo the players association should push for getting rid of the franchise tag altogether.

[RiverDog]

Maybe it's because I come from an era where players had to take 2nd jobs in the offseason (MVP George Blanda drove a beer truck for a distributor) so they could pay the bills, but I am one helluva lot more worried about Chubb's physical health than I am his financial health. We're talking about multi-millionaires. I'm a lot more concerned about Chubb having to go through the rest of his life with a permanent limp than I am whether or not he can buy an NFL team someday.

[4XPIPS]

Maybe it's because I come from an era where players had to take 2nd jobs in the offseason (MVP George Blanda drove a beer truck for a distributor) so they could pay the bills, but I am one helluva lot more worried about Chubb's physical health than I am his financial health. We're talking about multi-millionaires. I'm a lot more concerned about Chubb having to go through the rest of his life with a permanent limp than I am whether or not he can buy an NFL team someday.

Certainly Chubb's health is most concerning, but the point I am making is the workload and health of a RB is severely being taken of advantage by team owners. Chubb's injury could be career ending and the balance of pay from a RB in todays market is crap by comparison to other positions. Yes they are paid handsomely for playing a sport, but what I don't want to happen is the elite RBs coming out of HS to college fade away because the compensation isn't there for them at the NFL level. If RBs can not get a workable deal to favor their situation, then in next 4 to 5 years there will hardly be any super stars playing tailback and it will just be a passing league.

[RiverDog]

Maybe it's because I come from an era where players had to take 2nd jobs in the offseason (MVP George Blanda drove a beer truck for a distributor) so they could pay the bills, but I am one helluva lot more worried about Chubb's physical health than I am his financial health. We're talking about multi-millionaires. I'm a lot more concerned about Chubb having to go through the rest of his life with a permanent limp than I am whether or not he can buy an NFL team someday.

Certainly Chubb's health is most concerning, but the point I am making is the workload and health of a RB is severely being taken of advantage by team owners. Chubb's injury could be career ending and the balance of pay from a RB in todays market is crap by comparison to other positions. Yes they are paid handsomely for playing a sport, but what I don't want to happen is the elite RBs coming out of HS to college fade away because the compensation isn't there for them at the NFL level. If RBs can not get a workable deal to favor their situation, then in next 4 to 5 years there will hardly be any super stars playing tailback and it will just be a passing league.

So they're paid handsomely but they're being taken advantage of by team owners? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Now, if you want to argue about something like owners not wanting to change from turf to grass because they're worried about their profits before they are the safety of their players, then you might have something. But I don't see how you can rationalize that statement with regard to this injury to Nick Chubb.

I don't think you'll have to worry about high school/college kids not pursuing their running back careers to due to inadequate compensation. If they're going to worry about anything regarding the position, it will be about getting injured in the way Chubb did.

The running back is the most injury prone position in the game, which is one of the major reasons why I don't like seeing us spending high draft picks on them. I don't know how to make the position safer and still maintain the aspects of the game that make it entertaining. Changing from turf to natural grass might help in some situations, but this injury happened on a grass field so there is no cross to bear as there was with Aaron Rodgers' season ending injury.

[c_hawkbob]

So they're paid handsomely but they're being taken advantage of by team owners? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It does to me. Both things can absolutely be true. Although I put it more on GM's than owners.

[NorthHawk]

But they're not paid handsomely relative to others on the team even excluding QBs. The problem is they are rarely well compensated with 2nd contracts unlike other positions.
Maybe RBs should only have a 3 year 1st contract instead of 4 plus option. As well, the RB position is changing and becoming more of an all round weapon. You just have to look at how the Falcons and Lions are beginning to use their RB draft picks from this past draft and the creative changes to the offensive schemes around the league that use the RBs other ways and not just carrying the ball between the Tackles.

[RiverDog]

So they're paid handsomely but they're being taken advantage of by team owners? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It does to me. Both things can absolutely be true. Although I put it more on GM's than owners.

I can agree with the use of the term as it applies to a situation, but not as it applies to an individual. When I think of a person being taken advantage of, I think of some type of abuse, like a farmer paying his immigrant workers less than minimum wage or denying them breaks because he knows they won't or don't know how to complain. I don't see any of that going on in this situation, and I'm certainly not going to join the rest of you in shedding tears for a player because he's making 'just' $5M a season instead of $20M that he could if the circumstances were different. It's all being done above board and in compliance with the CBA, and if they don't like it, they can address it in the next bargaining session.

[4XPIPS]

So they're paid handsomely but they're being taken advantage of by team owners? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Now, if you want to argue about something like owners not wanting to change from turf to grass because they're worried about their profits before they are the safety of their players, then you might have something. But I don't see how you can rationalize that statement with regard to this injury to Nick Chubb.

I don't think you'll have to worry about high school/college kids not pursuing their running back careers to due to inadequate compensation. If they're going to worry about anything regarding the position, it will be about getting injured in the way Chubb did.

The running back is the most injury prone position in the game, which is one of the major reasons why I don't like seeing us spending high draft picks on them. I don't know how to make the position safer and still maintain the aspects of the game that make it entertaining. Changing from turf to natural grass might help in some situations, but this injury happened on a grass field so there is no cross to bear as there was with Aaron Rodgers' season ending injury.

Let me clarify, when I mentioned paid handsomely meaning that the majority of players in the NFL are compensated quite well to play a sport they love, should have been more cleared on that. Heck a long snapper gets paid well for playing his position. I believe Saquon will be the last tailback to ever be drafted as high as he did. Future tailbacks will not be drafted as high because teams get solid production out of a tailback in the 2nd round and further down, which mean top talented tailbacks will get far less then a back up player taken in the first round.

You mentioned owners not wanthing to change from turf to grass, well that will never be an easy task because most nfl stadiums are not owned by team owners and the stadium's maintenances are passed on to the city to budget the expense and care whether it be hospitality taxes or travel taxes. Go onto orbitz and just for fun book a rental car in Phoenix, AZ and see a daily rate of $30 per day and watch it balloon into $75 a day with all taxes and fees. Part of those fees pays the maintenance for University of Phoenix Stadium. I don't disagree with you one bit that grass would better suit players and limit injuries vs turf. If team owner's do care about the health of their players they should fight harder to get the turf thrown out.

I agree with Northhawk's post, they have to find away to fairly compensate the RB position. If we are only going to get 3 to 4 good years out of a talented tailback then allow them to bank a fair amount of guaranteed money before their careers are over soon.

To finalize my point Jonathan Taylor, at the age 24 and was drafted #41 in 2020, and is a top talented tailback...would you agree with me on that? His last 3 years of production.

Stats: 756 carries for 3,841 yards, 104 catches for 802 yards and scored 36 touchdowns.

Those are pretty good numbers. How many tickets did he help the Colts sale? Would you argue he was the Colts best player for the last 3 years? Why can't he secure a long term deal? He had no control over his rookie deal, but now when he has a chance to bank in some fair market value money he can't get a deal with Colts. Now we are left with a top talented running back not playing because he can't get his worth.

I love football so much that I can watch any game, but I especially love talented players playing, and not seeing Jonathan Taylor out there is indicative on GM's and Team Owners churning through their RBs. This Chubb injury is exactly what will hurt Taylor's position getting a long term deal. These tailbacks are more likely to get hurt, but at least pay them their worth.

[RiverDog]

Let me clarify, when I mentioned paid handsomely meaning that the majority of players in the NFL are compensated quite well to play a sport they love, should have been more cleared on that. Heck a long snapper gets paid well for playing his position. I believe Saquon will be the last tailback to ever be drafted as high as he did. Future tailbacks will not be drafted as high because teams get solid production out of a tailback in the 2nd round and further down, which mean top talented tailbacks will get far less then a back up player taken in the first round.

Agreed about running backs not being taken very high. It's a product of several different factors, including their risk of injury and the fact that the game has changed to emphasize passing offenses. It's a quarterback's league. Unlike a center, quarterback, left tackle, or even a wide receiver, very few running backs play all 3 downs. We see more and more teams use a running back by committee approach. It also explains why they don't get as lucrative contracts as a quarterback or edge rusher.

You mentioned owners not wanthing to change from turf to grass, well that will never be an easy task because most nfl stadiums are not owned by team owners and the stadium's maintenances are passed on to the city to budget the expense and care whether it be hospitality taxes or travel taxes. Go onto orbitz and just for fun book a rental car in Phoenix, AZ and see a daily rate of $30 per day and watch it balloon into $75 a day with all taxes and fees. Part of those fees pays the maintenance for University of Phoenix Stadium. I don't disagree with you one bit that grass would better suit players and limit injuries vs turf. If team owner's do care about the health of their players they should fight harder to get the turf thrown out.

We're in general agreement about the turf vs. grass debate. I'm not sure if it's the answer for every stadium, such as in New Orleans where they have a fixed roof with no viable way to move a grass field outdoors ala Arizona and Las Vegas, but certainly for a stadium like ours in Seattle it would be very easy to convert to grass. And I don't think that in general that ownership is not showing enough concern for providing the safest conditions possible as it relates to the playing surface.

I agree with Northhawk's post, they have to find away to fairly compensate the RB position. If we are only going to get 3 to 4 good years out of a talented tailback then allow them to bank a fair amount of guaranteed money before their careers are over soon.

To finalize my point Jonathan Taylor, at the age 24 and was drafted #41 in 2020, and is a top talented tailback...would you agree with me on that? His last 3 years of production.

Stats: 756 carries for 3,841 yards, 104 catches for 802 yards and scored 36 touchdowns.

Those are pretty good numbers. How many tickets did he help the Colts sale? Would you argue he was the Colts best player for the last 3 years? Why can't he secure a long term deal? He had no control over his rookie deal, but now when he has a chance to bank in some fair market value money he can't get a deal with Colts. Now we are left with a top talented running back not playing because he can't get his worth.

I love football so much that I can watch any game, but I especially love talented players playing, and not seeing Jonathan Taylor out there is indicative on GM's and Team Owners churning through their RBs. This Chubb injury is exactly what will hurt Taylor's position getting a long term deal. These tailbacks are more likely to get hurt, but at least pay them their worth.

I don't disagree with you on a running back's worth vs. their compensation. But IMO that's a concern exclusively for the players, and if it's a big enough issue for them, they have means in which they can address it. As a fan, all I care about is the health of the players, even those on opposing teams and even those of whom I personally detest, like Aaron Rodgers.