Is It Time To Bench Geno?

[RiverDog]

There have been some rumblings as to whether or not it's time to bench Geno and give Lock a shot. Field Gulls took an informal poll, with nearly 5,000 votes cast, so although it's not scientific, it's likely a pretty decent gauge on the attitude of the 12's towards Geno. The results were 23% responding yes, 28% said yes "if he continues to struggle for the next game or two", and 49% responding no. An excerpt from the article containing the poll:

Smith had a couple of turnovers (yesterday), flirted with another pick or two, took some bad sacks, and generally had questionable decision-making that offset his best throws. He has thrown just 5 touchdown passes to 3 interceptions, which are Seattle’s only turnovers on the year. This is not the same red-hot start as he had in 2022, and the Seahawks remain one of the NFL’s worst third-down and red-zone offenses. Statistically, Smith is not a bottom-5 QB and has been average to above-average throughout this season.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2023/10/15/2 ... geno-smith

I answered yes to the 2nd option, if he continues to struggle for the next game or two. Geno hasn't been playing all that badly as he's had just 3 interceptions all year, but he's not performing when it counts. That sentence noting that "the Seahawks remain one of the NFL's worst 3rd down and red zone offenses" is very concerning. I am under no illusion that Lock is our QBOTF, but I've been wrong before. Geno most certainly isn't our future.

Especially with the Niners losing yesterday, our season is far from being lost. Maybe Lock can give the team the lift we need.

[4XPIPS]

The outlook of the Seahawks has it's highs and lows from week to week. I am not for one to bench Geno, and I certainly agree there are some pundits and the fanbase that have never been quite sold that he is a franchise QB. If we are just judging this season alone I will honestly say he hasn't played all that great nor has he played all that bad. I mean look at Mac Jones and how he is a square block being shoved into a triangle open over with the Pats. It could be worse, and for the most part I believe if he struggles next few games it's worth seeing what we have in Lock. Geno to me is an above average to great QB when given enough time in the pocket and does not need to improvise as much. Off script he will never be as effective as Russ Prime that we got used to see for all the years. Dammit I did it and I shouldn't have compared the too, but that is unfortunately the link he will be faced with for remainder of his Seahawks career.

The silly OL penalties aren't a result of his play, and DK's unsportsman's like conduct penalties are not a result of him either. I don't think he has quite peaked nor do I think he has hit rock bottom either. If it can click I think he can still give us the best chance to win enough games and take us to the playoffs, and who knows with how the big names are getting hurt left and right out there.. we can possibly make a run in the playoffs. Everyone is due a bad game here and there, but his recent stretch does warrant this question, but I believe it's far too soon to give up on him now.

[Aseahawkfan]

I never saw in Geno anything but a bridge QB. He's not a top flight QB that can take over games. He's a guy that does well enough to I guess keep us going to the playoffs, but not really contending. Maybe if we had the Legion of Boom reborn, maybe we compete with him. I still doubt it. Even when the team was at its peak under Carroll, there were still more than a few games where we needed Russell to work his magic. Russell may not be great now and not as good as Geno at this point, but Geno isn't anywhere near as good as prime Russ. He don't take over games. He doesn't have a high ceiling. He is a bridge or the proverbial game manager who might have a shot at something if everything around him is incredible and he gets a lot of lucky breaks.

Other than that I have no faith in Geno's ability to contend for a Super Bowl.

I'd just as soon move on from him as soon as we draft the next guy that might really give us a chance to contend.

I've finally reached the point where I'd like to see Carroll retire and start a new building cycle. See what happens. I can't watch this mediocre play any longer. It's not fun and feels like wheel spinning. Look, we got to the playoffs again with a 9 and 8 or 10 and 7 record, maybe we can do something...but not really, because the reality is we're not real contenders. Just a team that ended up in the playoffs because we're among the top 14 of 32 teams to make it in. 44 percent of the teams in the league will make the playoffs. Very few will be real contenders once in. We've been one of those playoff non-contenders for about 7 or 8 years now. I'm tired of it.

[RiverDog]

The outlook of the Seahawks has it's highs and lows from week to week. I am not for one to bench Geno, and I certainly agree there are some pundits and the fanbase that have never been quite sold that he is a franchise QB. If we are just judging this season alone I will honestly say he hasn't played all that great nor has he played all that bad. I mean look at Mac Jones and how he is a square block being shoved into a triangle open over with the Pats. It could be worse, and for the most part I believe if he struggles next few games it's worth seeing what we have in Lock. Geno to me is an above average to great QB when given enough time in the pocket and does not need to improvise as much. Off script he will never be as effective as Russ Prime that we got used to see for all the years. Dammit I did it and I shouldn't have compared the too, but that is unfortunately the link he will be faced with for remainder of his Seahawks career.

The silly OL penalties aren't a result of his play, and DK's unsportsman's like conduct penalties are not a result of him either. I don't think he has quite peaked nor do I think he has hit rock bottom either. If it can click I think he can still give us the best chance to win enough games and take us to the playoffs, and who knows with how the big names are getting hurt left and right out there.. we can possibly make a run in the playoffs. Everyone is due a bad game here and there, but his recent stretch does warrant this question, but I believe it's far too soon to give up on him now.

I agree that it's too soon to give up on Geno. After all, we're still 3-2 and just one game out of first place in the loss column, not only within our division but the conference as well and with nearly 70% of the regular season left to play. He's proven that he can play at a high level, and like you said, there's other factors that enter into the equation, like the offensive line play.

There's been a lot of bad quarterbacking around the league, especially this past weekend. Did you guys see the interception that Jalen Hurts threw south of the 2-minute warning, the Jets out of timeouts, and leading by 6? Talk about dumb and dumber. It was one of three picks he threw that game. Or how about Tyrod Taylor checking out of a play to a run with 8 seconds left with no timeouts at the end of the half? Even Patrick Mahomes looked less than stellar against a very poor defense. Brock Purdy had his worst game as a starter, completing less than 50% of his passes, 1 TD/1 INT, and barely 100 yards passing. And then there was Russell Wilson.

[NorthHawk]

After the Arizona Game we have a gauntlet of better teams to face and I think we should make a decision before then.
Geno seems to be playing at the level he played the last half of last year which was maybe average for the NFL, but not great.
If we lose to AZ, then I think the pressure to see what Lock has to offer for a longer period of time than just backup duty will rise.

We also have to keep in mind that his contract for next year is dependent upon how well he does this year so will we want to pay him more than $30M next year for production like this year?
Seeing what Lock has to offer should be on the table at some point this year, if only to see if we have an alternative to aid in Cap space next year. It would also seem like drafting a QB this year
might be in the cards.

[4XPIPS]

I believe we may have reached a point of uncertainty. I am just not sold that Geno can be the man anymore. I wasn't expecting him to put up Mahomes numbers, but at least be a consistent solid starter, and he is none of that. Protecting the ball is something I feel he should prioritize more considering his role with this offense.

He could have easily thrown the game away as he threw an easy Pick 6 that the Brown's DB dropped, and that would have all insured his fate as the starting QB. We are even more uncertain with Lock sitting on the bench, but we don't know what we have until we give it a go. I felt in the Brown's game Geno was flirting with the line of being benched at some point, and that last drive put him back in the starting position. If he keeps this play up we are going to lose more close games than win them, like the game with the Bengals.

[NorthHawk]

I think with today’s trade, Pete is all in on Geno and thinking the team has a chance of going deep into the playoffs.

[TriCitySam]

No. Geno is inside the top 15 as a QB, ESPN currently ranks him #11. So to tho g your gonna bench him and get better is not a realistic expectation. He has won with late drives against some good defenses. The Browns are #6 in both passing and run defense. Is he a Tom Brady, nope, but the vast majority are worse. Fans want perfection, rarely happens. The bigger issue is penalties that have killed some drives.

[jshawaii22]

I think with today’s trade, Pete is all in on Geno and thinking the team has a chance of going deep into the playoffs.

Not sure about Pete being "all in" on Geno for more then this and next year. Leonard Williams is decent and will help in our interior rotation, but he's only here for the next 10 games because we screwed up the draft and (nothing against having 2 decent running backs) didn't get any of the top D-Lineman that we could of had in the 2nd or even 3rd round. As well as our draft looks on paper, this left a hole in the middle of our D that Jarran tries to fill, but he's not a wide-body and this forced our hand.

[4XPIPS]

No. Geno is inside the top 15 as a QB, ESPN currently ranks him #11. So to tho g your gonna bench him and get better is not a realistic expectation. He has won with late drives against some good defenses. The Browns are #6 in both passing and run defense. Is he a Tom Brady, nope, but the vast majority are worse. Fans want perfection, rarely happens. The bigger issue is penalties that have killed some drives.

I agree he isn't Tom Brady, and I don't perfection is what we need. I agree penalties are a problem, however, I disagree that penalties are a bigger issue than Geno becoming a turn over machine. Penalties can be somewhat neutralized as it gives you an opportunity to adjust. Geno's ball placement has been horrid that past month, he could easily have way more picks but thankfully he doesn't. He throws that pick 6 in the browns game, and we lose I can see the potential to try and see what we have in Drew Lock.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

No one believes Geno is playing past this contract. All in just means Pete believes he can win with Geno during the time frame as opposed to benching or trading him.

Williams was probably the best option to add some rotational depth and the second was the cost to get the Giants to eat almost all of his salary this year. Definitely a win now move; at least it didn’t cost the farm.

The draft looks more than good on paper. It’s good in reality. I was hoping for a DT higher, but they at least grabbed a big guy in the 4th in Cam Young. He is seeing some snaps already and understands the NT role. Need him, Reed, and now Williams to keep it together.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't think you can justify benching the QB when your team is 5 and 2 and leading the division. We all know Geno is a bridge QB that could win it all if the stars align right. He has the numbers of an efficient starter and a high quality backup.

Unless Drew Lock is an obvious upgrade, you stick with Geno.

We're not fighting for a top 5 pick needing to know if Lock can be developed. We're a division leading playoff contender with a possible improving defense and an offense that so far has been able to get it done. We haven't hit the hard part of our schedule yet, but we've played some quality teams and won. So you keep rolling with your QB and see what happens.

[RiverDog]

I don't think you can justify benching the QB when your team is 5 and 2 and leading the division. We all know Geno is a bridge QB that could win it all if the stars align right. He has the numbers of an efficient starter and a high quality backup.

Unless Drew Lock is an obvious upgrade, you stick with Geno.

We're not fighting for a top 5 pick needing to know if Lock can be developed. We're a division leading playoff contender with a possible improving defense and an offense that so far has been able to get it done. We haven't hit the hard part of our schedule yet, but we've played some quality teams and won. So you keep rolling with your QB and see what happens.

I agree. You don't bench a quarterback when you're 5-2 and leading your division.

Having said that, Geno played another poor game Sunday. It's a disturbing trend.

[NorthHawk]

Not sure about Pete being "all in" on Geno for more then this and next year. Leonard Williams is decent and will help in our interior rotation, but he's only here for the next 10 games because we screwed up the draft and (nothing against having 2 decent running backs) didn't get any of the top D-Lineman that we could of had in the 2nd or even 3rd round. As well as our draft looks on paper, this left a hole in the middle of our D that Jarran tries to fill, but he's not a wide-body and this forced our hand.

I was talking about this year which is what I thought the discussion is about. I see the Williams trade as Pete going back to his old way of thinking that we are only a player away from a championship.
Since Williams is a FA after this year, it could be another Clowney or Richardson where they walk after the season. If that happens we've wasted 2 picks, and if he signs it will be for big money. How will Reed react to again being the lowest paid veteran on the DL even though he's probably playing his best football? It has all the signs of a partial year rental of Williams.

[jshawaii22]

What I don't get in all this is that Pete seems to really believe that Geno Smith can take us deep into the playoffs. Does he see the same film that we do?
Geno has exceeded expectations, but they were very, very low to begin with. He's fun to root for but he's not the answer for our future.

No, we shouldn't and won't bench him, but 9-8 and on the outside 10-7 is the top of the game. We gave him a fair, 2 year mid $$$ contract that we should honor. We are 5-2 with a wicked remaining schedule that only the football gods could of come up with. Ravens are now #1 team in NFL in many polls today, and then in a couple of weeks we get the 49'ers, Cowboys, 49ers, Philly... good luck.

[I-5]

I've been just as frustrated with Geno Smith as anyone - 9 TD's to 6 INT's is simply not acceptable. He's made some nice plays too that show he can do it, but he's definitely underperforming. That said, there is zero chance of Pete benching him as long as we're winning.

What I'm wondering is why DK is targeted so disproportionately to the other receivers. Unless he's the primary read on all of those targets.

[4XPIPS]

Benching vs Rotating

Most of you will not agree with me on this, but I think Geno should be the starter, but at some point given his struggles and how he is trending it's worth giving Drew Lock a shot and see what he can do. Many teams in the past have done this at times, and still went back to their starter.

Patriots do it with Mac Jones, and throw in Bailey Z to see if he can give spark. The Cardinals did back when Matt Leinart was coined the starter, but rotated Kurt Warner in, and after a handful games he became the starter. You can still do this process in a winning season.

Here are the reasons why Drew Lock deserves a series or two. He was the highest rated QB in the preseason, and topped all QBs this preseason. Yes he did go up against back ups, but he was also working with back ups. Also if weren't for Drew Lock there probably would be no Jake Bobo. Bobo needed a qualified QB for him to shine, otherwise Bobo probably would be on the Practice Squad. When Russ came here he was drafted to compete with Matt Flynn, and because Russ outplayed Flynn he took over as starter. If Drew didn't play so well in the preseason I probably wouldn't care to see him in there. He is battle tested, has previous starting experience and maybe time on the bench has given him time to see the game differently and can give us a spark.

[RiverDog]

I've been just as frustrated with Geno Smith as anyone - 9 TD's to 6 INT's is simply not acceptable. He's made some nice plays too that show he can do it, but he's definitely underperforming. That said, there is zero chance of Pete benching him as long as we're winning.

What I'm wondering is why DK is targeted so disproportionately to the other receivers. Unless he's the primary read on all of those targets.

It's not just that, but it could be A LOT worse. Yesterday, Geno got away with what would have been a sure pick 6, a game changer had the DB held on.

Geno hasn't been playing as poorly as some of the other QB's around the league, ie Jimmy G., Zach Wilson, Daniel Jones, et al, but he's not playing near well enough for our team to compete for a championship. He and we were lucky last Sunday as his counterpart played even worse than he did, completing barely 50% of his passes, throwing two interceptions, including a really bad one that gave us the ball at midfield late in the 4th quarter and enabled our game winning drive.

Good point about Metcalf being targeted so much, at least in this game. He had 14 out of the 36 total passing attempts, nearly 40%, and connected on just 5 of them. In the meantime, we targeted our tight ends just 3 times, all to Fant. Our running backs were targeted just 4 times.

[jshawaii22]

sorry, computer is not having a good day

[jshawaii22]

Metcalf goes back to the "do we trade him" post. He doesn't use his size or weight advantage at all. Doesn't 'highpoint' the ball. He doesn't seem to be able to turn to the ball if the pass is slightly off. And he hasn't used his God-given speed to catch a long post pass in a couple of years.
Compared to Lockett, I'll take two Lockett's.... (OK, maybe not a fair comparison, but realistic) --

[jshawaii22]

duplicate -- so post is gone...

[I-5]

Metcalf goes back to the "do we trade him" post. He doesn't use his size or weight advantage at all. Doesn't 'highpoint' the ball. He doesn't seem to be able to turn to the ball if the pass is slightly off. And he hasn't caught a long post pass in a couple of years.
Compared to Lockett, I'll take two Lockett's.... (OK, maybe not a fair comparison, but realistic) --

On the throw to the end zone, it looked like Geno put the ball right where it should be, but when DK met the ball his torso was leaning backwards while the ball hit the ground in front of him. Is that on Geno? That ball looked very catchable to my eyes, but DK was not even leaning forward...frustrating to watch

[Aseahawkfan]

DK may want a trade. I don't think he loves playing with Geno myself, but probably wouldn't say it. Probably wants to play with a team that can use his talents to bigger effect. If he is disgruntled, I'd prefer we move him. I imagine we'll see as the season goes on.

[I-5]

I'm not sure which team DK could go that beats what he has in Seattle: disproportionate amount of targets over the other receivers, a winning team, and without the pressure to produce like a WR1 since Lockett is so damn production and consistent. Why would he want to change the scenery?

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure which team DK could go that beats what he has in Seattle: disproportionate amount of targets over the other receivers, a winning team, and without the pressure to produce like a WR1 since Lockett is so damn production and consistent. Why would he want to change the scenery?

One word: Money.

Why would Devante Adams go to the Raiders and Amari Cooper to the Browns? They weren't contenders. But a lot of times, players get this notion that they are so damn good that they can be the catalyst that turns around a hapless, dead-from-the-neck-up team like the Browns or Raiders and make them into multiple Lombardi winners. They don't always think rationally.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure which team DK could go that beats what he has in Seattle: disproportionate amount of targets over the other receivers, a winning team, and without the pressure to produce like a WR1 since Lockett is so damn production and consistent. Why would he want to change the scenery?

Geno doesn't have a big arm and isn't a big money QB. We run a run heavy offense. If he could get a QB like a Mahomes or Tua throwing to him, his stats rise.

Geno maybe just sees the same thing with Pete: a run first, low passing volume offense with an average to above average QB forced to be more careful than dynamic. His stats have dropped a bit with Geno and his best year is still 2020 with Russ.

A competitor like DK may want more. He's got a ton of talent and he's not going to maximize it here with Geno as QB. A talent like DK is best used in a high volume passing offense with a QB with an arm.

I'm just speculating. I have no idea what he thinks. I know another early playoff exit or a collapse is going to sour a lot of folks on this team. DK may sour even further as guys don't like staying around middling teams even if they get to the playoffs that aren't real contenders.

[4XPIPS]

How much more of this are we going to have to stomach before we give Lock a series or two? I doubt Lock would have won the game(vs Ravens), but it would have seem fitting to see what we have. Most of you shot the idea down when we were division leaders at 5-2, but I am still on the boat of we need to see what we have in Lock before we continue to put Geno in a world he is unable to elevate his game too.

Look I believe Geno is a stand up guy, and has accomplished more that what most expected from last year, but this the "not for long" league and it's pretty evident he can't carry this team, and his play has significantly dropped. This will be getting uglier and uglier as he continues to start from here on out.

[RiverDog]

How much more of this are we going to have to stomach before we give Lock a series or two? I doubt Lock would have the game(vs Ravens), but it would have seem fitting to see what we have. Most of you shot the idea down when we were division leaders at 5-2, but I am still on the boat of we need to see what we have in Lock before we continue to put Geno in a world he is unable to elevate his game too.

Look I believe Geno is a stand up guy, and has accomplished more that what most expected from last year, but this the "not for long" league and it's pretty evident he can't carry this team, and his play has significantly dropped. This will be getting uglier and uglier as he continues to start from here on out.

Believe me, I'm no Geno fan. But today wasn't all on him. Sure, he threw a really bad pick and took a couple of sacks that he probably shouldn't have. But he had zero running game to rely on, 28 yards on 15 carries, and he was under pressure for much of the day. The strip sack fumble wasn't his fault. Our offensive line leaks like a sieve and can't open holes for our running backs. Our tight ends have literally disappeared. The entire TE corps had just 3 targets and 1 reception for 6 yards. We're not utilizing Metcalf as he had just one catch. To say that something is wrong with our scheme is a gross understatement.

As bad as we looked today, the season is far from being lost. We are tied with the Niners for the division lead and we're not even halfway through our schedule yet. I say that we stick with Geno and see what happens. There's plenty of time left to give Lock a chance to show what he has if this season really turns south.

[NorthHawk]

As far as doing well in the playoffs, it showed how far we have to go to be competitive. We might get there as a WC, but it will be another 1 and done if we do.
We just don't have the horses to get there.
Geno has been the Geno some of us feared would show up and is following the same record as the last half of last year.

Pete might be getting ready to pull Geno in favor of Lock. He rarely says bad things about players, but here is a statement from PFT:

Carroll reiterated that the loss “is not on one guy,” but the two turnovers make eight in the last four games for Smith and Carroll was asked about his level of concern about that run.

“I’m concerned about that,” Carroll said. “The one, on the fumble, that’s a pass-rush deal. The interception, he threw it up, and the guy who’s been making all the interceptions made another one. But that’s not the direction for us to be going. Up until this game, it took us to first place, whatever the heck we’ve been doing. We didn’t play like a first place team today. With those kind of turnovers, it’s really hard to win.”

We know how Pete hates turnovers, so maybe things will change. But I still think Pete is putting his thumb on this Offense. It's becoming very predictable and the play calling is falling into the pattern we saw with Wilson, but Wilson was at the top of his game and could overcome the limitations for the most part. That's 3 OCs doing the same thing. The only common thread is PC.

[RiverDog]

As far as doing well in the playoffs, it showed how far we have to go to be competitive. We might get there as a WC, but it will be another 1 and done if we do.
We just don't have the horses to get there.
Geno has been the Geno some of us feared would show up and is following the same record as the last half of last year.

Pete might be getting ready to pull Geno in favor of Lock. He rarely says bad things about players, but here is a statement from PFT:

Carroll reiterated that the loss “is not on one guy,” but the two turnovers make eight in the last four games for Smith and Carroll was asked about his level of concern about that run.

“I’m concerned about that,” Carroll said. “The one, on the fumble, that’s a pass-rush deal. The interception, he threw it up, and the guy who’s been making all the interceptions made another one. But that’s not the direction for us to be going. Up until this game, it took us to first place, whatever the heck we’ve been doing. We didn’t play like a first place team today. With those kind of turnovers, it’s really hard to win.”

We know how Pete hates turnovers, so maybe things will change. But I still think Pete is putting his thumb on this Offense. It's becoming very predictable and the play calling is falling into the pattern we saw with Wilson, but Wilson was at the top of his game and could overcome the limitations for the most part. That's 3 OCs doing the same thing. The only common thread is PC.

What I'd like to know is what the heck has happened to our tight ends? We've targeted them just 3 times in each of the last three games. Are we having to hold them in to block due to our leaky offensive line?

[NorthHawk]

As Luke Willson said after the Jimmy Graham trade:
(Paraphrase) 'Why did we trade for Graham? In this Offense we don't throw to the TE's!' It seems nothing much has changed from the Wilson days.
In the McVay/Shanahan Offenses, the TEs play a much more prominent role.

[4XPIPS]

I would like to think that this Raven's game was not all Geno, but he had a large part to do with how quickly the game got out of hand. His poor decisions and his inability to move out of the pocket and create plays off script limits us. His accuracy was subpar, and he sat in the pocket and threw with hesitation and a lot of his passes were telegraphed and batted down. McDonald did an excellent job scheming a mix of fronts to confuse Geno, and it worked and Geno could not read and process the defensive front in time and it showed.

This is a Raven's defense that gave up 24 pts to Joshua Dobbs lead Cardinals, now a lot of those did come late in the game where it was clearly over for the Cardinals, but at least the Cardinals at that time made the game somewhat respectable.

Geno is going to be problem here and the rest of the season. Teams have watched enough film on Geno and realize he can not process a defensive front fast enough if you can collapse the pocket on him even if you don't get a sack but put enough pressure on Geno, he will just crumble. The last 4 games his play has been at the bottom 10 of the league, and he just can't work off script like a Joshua Dobbs, and I am not saying Joshua Dobbs is a franchise player by any means but when the play breaks down you need an athletic QB to work off script.

[RiverDog]

I would like to think that this Raven's game was not all Geno, but he had a large part to do with how quickly the game got out of hand. His poor decisions and his inability to move out of the pocket and create plays off script limits us. His accuracy was subpar, and he sat in the pocket and threw with hesitation and a lot of his passes were telegraphed and batted down. McDonald did an excellent job scheming a mix of fronts to confuse Geno, and it worked and Geno could not read and process the defensive front in time and it showed.

This is a Raven's defense that gave up 24 pts to Joshua Dobbs lead Cardinals, now a lot of those did come late in the game where it was clearly over for the Cardinals, but at least the Cardinals at that time made the game somewhat respectable.

Geno is going to be problem here and the rest of the season. Teams have watched enough film on Geno and realize he can not process a defensive front fast enough if you can collapse the pocket on him even if you don't get a sack but put enough pressure on Geno, he will just crumble. The last 4 games his play has been at the bottom 10 of the league, and he just can't work off script like a Joshua Dobbs, and I am not saying Joshua Dobbs is a franchise player by any means but when the play breaks down you need an athletic QB to work off script.

Yes, Geno played poorly and had a large part to do with our troubles. But the defense gave up over 500 yards of offense to the Ravens, nearly 300 yards rushing and let a random undrafted rookie running back gash us for 138 yards. Anytime you get beat 37-3, there's lots of blame to be spread around.

I don't disagree at all with your assessment of Geno. But now isn't the time to bench him.

[NorthHawk]

When Geno was playing well last year, he didn't hesitate, he fired strikes. We now see him start then pull it down quite a bit and then throw it. It's like he's afraid to make mistakes or doesn't trust his reads.
Maybe Dave Canales moving on has had a negative impact on him.

[Aseahawkfan]

When Geno was playing well last year, he didn't hesitate, he fired strikes. We now see him start then pull it down quite a bit and then throw it. It's like he's afraid to make mistakes or doesn't trust his reads.
Maybe Dave Canales moving on has had a negative impact on him.

Or maybe he's been figured out by DCs like we saw in the second half of last year and the blueprint for shutting him down is in place and has been placed on film and passed around the league. And Geno isn't dynamic enough to beat the defensive plan in place for him.

[RiverDog]

I agree with both North Hawk and ASF. Geno does look more hesitant. And it's not just an impression. His time to throw has gotten slower. This season, he's averaging 2.95 seconds, the 8th slowest in the league. Last season, Smith's time to throw was at 2.81 seconds, or 19th slowest in that department.

And to massage those numbers a little further, Tua gets the ball out the fastest at 2.38 seconds, Deshaun Watson the slowest at 3.06. If you use the difference between the fastest and slowest times as the denominator, or .68, and use the difference in Smith's TT from 2022 to 2023, or .14, as the numerator, Geno is approximately 20% slower in his delivery this season than he was last year. That's significant.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/pass ... e-to-throw

Here's some food for thought: Last season, we targeted our tight ends on 147 passes out of 553 attempts, or 26.6% of all passing attempts. This season through 8 games, we've targeted tight ends 42 times on 244 passing attempts, or just 17.2% of the time. That's quite a difference.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/team/stats/_/n ... asontype/2

I haven't watched to see if we're holding our tight ends in to block more often this season than we have in the past, but could it be that our OL problems are such that we're having to call on our tight ends to pass block, chip, play more inline, or whatever, which has manifested itself in Geno having fewer options and created more hesitancy?

[Aseahawkfan]

Probably holding TEs in to block more because of the injury to our tackles.

[NorthHawk]

Possibly. But there's no reason they couldn't chip the DE and then slide out to the flat or behind the blitzing LBs. Take advantage of aggressive Defenses and use it against them.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

There was no run game and no real answer to get the ball out quicker. That's part Geno and part Waldron. I don't know how they couldn't start getting some stuff going with the skill position players we have.

[c_hawkbob]

I think Pete doesn't want to bench Geno because it would be too much like giving up on the season. I think Pete really believes we can make something of this season.

Personally, while I do expect us to make the playoffs, I wouldn't mind seeing what Lock has got for a game or three. I don't think taking a look-see would alter our trajectory much.