Is It Time To Bench Geno?

[4XPIPS]

I think Pete doesn't want to bench Geno because it would be too much like giving up on the season. I think Pete really believes we can make something of this season.

Personally, while I do expect us to make the playoffs, I wouldn't mind seeing what Lock has got for a game or three. I don't think taking a look-see would alter our trajectory much.

This is exactly my point. Geno is playing consistently poor enough to warrant a test drive on Lock. I know the dust has settled since the Raven's beatdown, but if Geno comes out flat again next week, commits turnovers, and shows inaccuracy and can't make line adjustments to an aggressive front then I would say this is the time to give Lock a test run at it.

[RiverDog]

I think Pete doesn't want to bench Geno because it would be too much like giving up on the season. I think Pete really believes we can make something of this season.

Personally, while I do expect us to make the playoffs, I wouldn't mind seeing what Lock has got for a game or three. I don't think taking a look-see would alter our trajectory much.

I agree with your first paragraph, and I agree with Pete. Benching Geno now would be an act of desperation and likely not to be well received by the team. At 5-3 and tied for first place in our division, we are still very much in the hunt, especially when you consider that the Niners are in the midst of a 3 game losing streak.

But I think that we'll make the playoffs. IMO it will be something similar to what we saw last season, backing into them with a 9-8 record then one and done.

[Aseahawkfan]

Only person who thought Geno was a Super Bowl QB was hawktawk. Most know Geno is a bridge QB with maybe a chance to win if the Legion of Boom defense and a Marshawn return to the team in peak form.

[NorthHawk]

I don't think it's time to bench Geno yet, either but if we lose against the 49ers twice, Cowboys and Eagles, it would make sense to see for a couple of games what Lock has to offer.
Maybe he's actually better than Geno at that point.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I don't think it's time to bench Geno yet, either but if we lose against the 49ers twice, Cowboys and Eagles, it would make sense to see for a couple of games what Lock has to offer.
Maybe he's actually better than Geno at that point.

I'm not ready to give up on him yet either, but I really want to see good games against the Commanders and the Rams. The Commanders because we are at home, and the Rams because they clowned us hard at home and some redemption would be nice from the awful game the offense played. If these next two games are L's due in no small part to lack of offensive production, my torch for Geno will be burning pretty low.

[Spohawk5092]

comments I read inmy paper here this morning about the loss, Carroll said that was not even, is not even in his thinking.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

And Geno kills the chance at points at the end of the half because he didn’t get rid of the ball. Have to do better than that.

[4XPIPS]

And Geno kills the chance at points at the end of the half because he didn’t get rid of the ball. Have to do better than that.

Would you consider giving Drew a try at this point to see if he can give a spark? or leave Geno in still?

[Stream Hawk]

Honestly, yes. He has run out of excuses. I’ve never seen him play this bad in Seattle. Now he holds onto the ball for forever. Unreal. There are so many wide-open options and he seems to be lost in his own mind. See what Drew can do, and I expect it will be more than Geno.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Would you consider giving Drew a try at this point to see if he can give a spark? or leave Geno in still?

Not with it being a tie game, but a loss to the commanders at home might get on board with Drew next game.

[Aseahawkfan]

I want a draft a guy next year that challenges Geno.

[Old but Slow]

There is a good chance that one of the college QBs will be available in the late first and even in the third. There is only one who is a first round lock.

Now all we have to do is catch lightning in jar like we did with Russell Wilson.

[RiverDog]

There is a good chance that one of the college QBs will be available in the late first and even in the third. There is only one who is a first round lock.

Now all we have to do is catch lightning in jar like we did with Russell Wilson.

Ahh, and ObS sighting! Great to see you again, old man!

There's a lot of talk about us selecting UW's Michael Penix, but I don't trust southpaws.

[c_hawkbob]

I decided when we didn't take a QB in the last draft that I wanted Penix in the next!

As to Geno, though I was cussing him at points earlier in the game he came through when it mattered the most, those last two drives were perfect. Every pass was either complete, a spike to stop the clock or a TD. That's big.

[4XPIPS]

The second I feel like our QB situation is hard to stomach, and then you see what is going on with other teams like the Jets and the Patriots, and the Giants. Then I start to feel, hmm our QB situation is not too bad after all.

Bill benched Mac Jones and put Bailey Zappe in on the final 2 minute drive to go win the game, and it was a disastrous ending.

[Stream Hawk]

As to Geno, though I was cussing him at points earlier in the game he came through when it mattered the most, those last two drives were perfect. Every pass was either complete, a spike to stop the clock or a TD. That's big.

I agree, Bob, about Geno. I was pretty done with him. he has been a lot more streaky and holds onto the ball way too damn long this year. He did redeem himself quite a bit to win it in the 4th quarter,though. Very decisive throws for the win. At this point we might will ride him out and hope he continues to improve. I’d be happy if we survive the gauntlet. However I will not be happy with another 9-8 season. I don’t understand how many 12s insist on cheering for & encouraging mediocrity.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I agree, Bob, about Geno. I was pretty done with him. he has been a lot more streaky and holds onto the ball way too damn long this year. He did redeem himself quite a bit to win it in the 4th quarter,though. Very decisive throws for the win. At this point we might will ride him out and hope he continues to improve. I’d be happy if we survive the gauntlet. However I will not be happy with another 9-8 season. I don’t understand how many 12s insist on cheering for & encouraging mediocrity.

You’re not near as alone on that as you’re making it sound; understanding where the team is currently isn’t cheering mediocrity. This team is on its second post Russell Wilson season. Another wild card season is about on track for a rebuild, and there wasn’t a move that could have been reasonably made to make this team more than 9 to 10 win team this year. No, Geno isn’t the answer, but he is the answer right now. I’ll be more concerned with where they are headed if they don’t make a significant move at QB in this coming draft.

[Aseahawkfan]

If I don't think a QB can win a Super Bowl, then I'm ready to move on myself. I'm not content with the playoffs any longer. They let 14 of 32 teams in now? 44% of the NFL makes the playoffs every year. Maybe 4 to 6 are legitimate contenders. We haven't been a legitimate contender since our second Super Bowl loss.

Geno puts up good numbers against these weak ass teams who aren't real contenders themselves. So they don't look impressive to me.

I ain't much interested in Lock. He had his shot and failed.

I want a new guy drafted next year that can compete for a starting position, not some reclamation project. Need to see that ability to dominate against quality teams.

[RiverDog]

However I will not be happy with another 9-8 season. I don’t understand how many 12s insist on cheering for & encouraging mediocrity.

Me, either, especially when you consider how many teams, 14 out of 32 or nearly half the league, make the post season. I'm not going to mock my fellow fan's motivation. If the recent performance of our team is all it takes to float their boat, then good for them. But it certainly isn't me.

And I agree about the quarterbacking situation, that Geno doesn't look so bad when you compare him to other quarterbacks around the league. Josh Allen was supposed to be an MVP candidate and he is dragging his team down. They currently sit at 5-5, two games in the loss column behind the division leading Dolphins. Another MVP candidate, Lamar Jackson, threw 2 INT's including a pick 6, took 3 sacks, and completed just 57% of his passes. Joe Burrow, another potential MVP candidate, had 2 INT's and lost to what was earlier regarded as one of the worst teams in the league. It's been crazy.

[NorthHawk]

If people are satisfied with a collection of participation badges, then good for them, but the game is played to win it all and perpetually just getting into the playoffs only to lose is a waste of talent.
Will better players want to come here as FA's (if we have the Cap space) knowing we have very little chance to get a ring? Probably not because winning is the ultimate goal or we have to over pay them to make it attractive.
We should be able to see a trend line of a team getting better every year and peaking when all or most of the pieces are in place, but for the last decade we've done nothing of the sort. We've continually won enough games to have a winning record but not enough to actually produce a team that can be a serious challenger to go deep into the playoffs or win a Super Bowl.
And one of the key pieces to get there is a top QB. Drafting only 2 QBs in 13 drafts and both in late rounds then shipping off your Pro Bowl QB seemingly without a plan to recover that talent loss will mean more mediocrity until that issue is fixed.
Last year we could have moved up to the #2 spot, but were unwilling to pull the trigger on a trade. We had the draft capital but didn't use it. Now, there are fewer top QBs to get excited about and bigger questions about their ability to become Franchise QBs. Unless it gets fixed quickly it will be a series of another wasted year in 2024 and beyond.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

If the recent performance of our team is all it takes to float their boat, then good for them.

If people are satisfied with a collection of participation badges, then good for them, but the game is played to win it all and perpetually just getting into the playoffs only to lose is a waste of talent.

Are there really that many fans happy with mediocrity? I doubt it.

I'm sure we are all a bit jaded by the way the team was allowed to languish in perpetual seasons just enough to get and lose in the playoffs, but that time appears to be over, and this team is only in the second season after the major dynamic shift that came with trading away the franchise QB. The way I see it: Recover a boat load of draft capital by trading franchise QB, check. Draft well the next season. Check. Winning record that season. Check. Playoff appearance. Check. Draft well the next season. Check. Currently has a winning record. Check. In the running for the division and the playoffs. Check.

I don't know that we could ask for more in a rebuild. Sure, the rest of the season is going to be a bear, and the likely outcome is another playoff exit, but that's still about where a team in a rebuild should be. I've said it before, I want to see the move for a QB happen next offseason preferably in the draft. It may take draft capital from 2025 to do it, but it's an option.

And could we for certain have moved up to the #2 spot? Do we know for certain Houston was willing to give up their shot at C.J. Stroud? It may have been too costly. Of Stroud, Richardson, Young, and Levis, Stroud is the one looking the most likely franchise QB. He was the only one worth trading up for, and I still think it is very possible they were trying to build a team for a future QB as opposed to getting one then building around him. These past two drafts have done just that.

[4XPIPS]

I'm sure we are all a bit jaded by the way the team was allowed to languish in perpetual seasons just enough to get and lose in the playoffs, but that time appears to be over, and this team is only in the second season after the major dynamic shift that came with trading away the franchise QB. The way I see it: Recover a boat load of draft capital by trading franchise QB, check. Draft well the next season. Check. Winning record that season. Check. Playoff appearance. Check. Draft well the next season. Check. Currently has a winning record. Check. In the running for the division and the playoffs. Check.

I don't know that we could ask for more in a rebuild. Sure, the rest of the season is going to be a bear, and the likely outcome is another playoff exit, but that's still about where a team in a rebuild should be. I've said it before, I want to see the move for a QB happen next offseason preferably in the draft. It may take draft capital from 2025 to do it, but it's an option.

And could we for certain have moved up to the #2 spot? Do we know for certain Houston was willing to give up their shot at C.J. Stroud? It may have been too costly. Of Stroud, Richardson, Young, and Levis, Stroud is the one looking the most likely franchise QB. He was the only one worth trading up for, and I still think it is very possible they were trying to build a team for a future QB as opposed to getting one then building around him. These past two drafts have done just that.

I totally see where you are coming from. I think the frustration lies with how "Pete and John see Geno" vs "how the fanbase feels about Geno"
We should be happy with good drafts and we have banked on some good young talent in the past two drafts. Yet shipping off a 2nd round pick for L Williams was a pure indication that Pete and John are sold that we have the parts to make a deep push. Clearly thus far we do not. I am not even pinning this all on Geno

Aside from Geno's regression, here are some things that have held us back from taking that leap from a pretender to an actual contender

^Run Game has been poor and inconsistent at times, yet there was all this hype around and improved running game
^Our TE group has taken a step back, when most were projecting a bigger role for them
^The O-Line is having more issues than previous years, and yes a lot has to do with injuries
^Bonehead penalties have been a bigger issue this year than previous season
^3rd Downs on both sides of the ball have been a consistent issue
^Red Zone, well we all know that has been an issue from the start

So if we are check marking good draft pics, and this is a rebuild.... then why does it feel like we take 2 steps forward and 2 steps back year after year, and feel like we are that 9-8 team year after year. I totally agree a rebuild should always start with the QB. It's always easy to look back after previous drafts and see how the QBs shake out after a season or two, but in all reality it's the Front Office and Head Coach to make the right decisions to take those steps forward otherwise we are stuck in cruise control year after year with that 9 to maybe 10 win season.

There have been teams in the past that have made a massive roster shifts and a coaching change and have gone to the Super Bowl in a short period of time. Look at the Eagles when they won the Superbowl in 2017. That was two years removed from Chip Kelly's complete self implosion of a team.

[TriCitySam]

Not really happy, but I agree with River, in that compared to other QB's he's played OK, and its TOUGH to win and be consistent. The other teams have players as well.....I'm glad we're not the Browns who gave DeShaun a guaranteed contract of $230MM - with nearly a $65MM cap hit in '24. Not that his injury is his fault, just really bad luck that all teams face at some point (the injury, not the contract). Geno has played well late in games and pulled it out, and that's a credit to him. I'm not sure our OC has brought about the change we anticipated...but then I don't know what has taken place. I have heard them say that some of Genos errant throws were on the WR who altered their routes, and when the balls in the air, it's too late.

[RiverDog]

^Our TE group has taken a step back, when most were projecting a bigger role for them

Our tight ends per se aren't the problem. Whether it's Geno fault or Waldron's, we're not targeting them. They didn't suddenly regress. Last Sunday, they had 6 total targets out of 42 total passing attempts. The previous week vs. the Ravens they had 3 targets, and the game before that vs. the Browns they also had just 3 targets.

PFF has Will Dissly ranked as the 11th overall tight end. Noah Fant is ranked 18th, Colby Parkinson 29th. As a group, they are as good as any tight end corps in the league as no other team has 3 tight ends ranked in the top 30.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/te

[NorthHawk]

Bevell, Schottenheimer, and Waldron don't use the TE's? Luke Willson commenting that the team was confused by the trade for Jimmy Graham because 'We don't throw to the TE's in Pete's Offense'.
It's the way Pete runs the Offense and the problems with it stem from him and not the players or OC.

[RiverDog]

Bevell, Schottenheimer, and Waldron don't use the TE's? Luke Willson commenting that the team was confused by the trade for Jimmy Graham because 'We don't throw to the TE's in Pete's Offense'.
It's the way Pete runs the Offense and the problems with it stem from him and not the players or OC.

My point was that it isn't the tight end's fault that they aren't getting the targets. At least according to PFF, all three are very good at playing their position relative to the rest of the league.

[NorthHawk]

I agree. We don't take advantage of all the skills we have on Offense under Pete. He doesn't understand today's type of football.

[4XPIPS]

Our tight ends per se aren't the problem. Whether it's Geno fault or Waldron's, we're not targeting them. They didn't suddenly regress. Last Sunday, they had 6 total targets out of 42 total passing attempts. The previous week vs. the Ravens they had 3 targets, and the game before that vs. the Browns they also had just 3 targets.

PFF has Will Dissly ranked as the 11th overall tight end. Noah Fant is ranked 18th, Colby Parkinson 29th. As a group, they are as good as any tight end corps in the league as no other team has 3 tight ends ranked in the top 30.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/te

Exactly my point and that wasn't a dig on how crappy or TEs are We are wasting talented TEs with how poorly our offense has been. Pete maybe a defensive coach from a background stand point, but he does have a vision on how he wants the offense to function. It's too old school and has not kept up on how the the TE position has morphed into a major weapon. Here is my outlook;

Our TEs are here for lead blocking, and used as an outlet for checkdowns. When we do scheme up a play for our TEs its usually a chip block, and small roll out and a short completion. The top offenses today utilize their TEs as an actual weapon and hit them down field for big plays. Look at Sam LaPorta or TJ Hockenson, these offenses scheme up big plays for them. I am shocked Noah Fant isn't making those types of plays week after week, because he pretty good hands and instincts to make defenders miss.

[RiverDog]

Our tight ends per se aren't the problem. Whether it's Geno fault or Waldron's, we're not targeting them. They didn't suddenly regress. Last Sunday, they had 6 total targets out of 42 total passing attempts. The previous week vs. the Ravens they had 3 targets, and the game before that vs. the Browns they also had just 3 targets.

PFF has Will Dissly ranked as the 11th overall tight end. Noah Fant is ranked 18th, Colby Parkinson 29th. As a group, they are as good as any tight end corps in the league as no other team has 3 tight ends ranked in the top 30.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/te

Exactly my point and that wasn't a dig on how crappy or TEs are We are wasting talented TEs with how poorly our offense has been. Pete maybe a defensive coach from a background stand point, but he does have a vision on how he wants the offense to function. It's too old school and has not kept up on how the the TE position has morphed into a major weapon. Here is my outlook;

Our TEs are here for lead blocking, and used as an outlet for checkdowns. When we do scheme up a play for our TEs its usually a chip block, and small roll out and a short completion. The top offenses today utilize their TEs as an actual weapon and hit them down field for big plays. Look at Sam LaPorta or TJ Hockenson, these offenses scheme up big plays for them. I am shocked Noah Fant isn't making those types of plays week after week, because he pretty good hands and instincts to make defenders miss.

OK, thanks for clearing that up.

Agreed about not utilizing them for anything but an outlet if the primary receiver is covered. It's unfortunate as all 3 are very good receivers and one of the best TE corps in the league. We never have utilized our tight ends properly.

[NorthHawk]

And yet Walron comes from the McVay/Shanahan tree who exploit talented TE's abilities.
Seattle, under Pete Carroll is the place where talented TE's come to die.

[Rambo2014]

One a RAM always a RAM...system only works for RAMS

[c_hawkbob]

Y'all still want Lock for the rest of the season?

[RiverDog]

Y'all still want Lock for the rest of the season?

Hehe! I was thinking the same thing.

To be fair to Lock, he was in an incredibly tough position, coming in cold and not having worked with his receivers, his center, etc. But some of those throws were just horrible. It was tough to watch as you just knew, or at least I got the feeling, that even though we were up by two scores, that we were losing the game.

[Aseahawkfan]

Y'all still want Lock for the rest of the season?

No. I want a QB drafted in the next draft.

[4XPIPS]

Y'all still want Lock for the rest of the season?

Rest of the season, who here is asking for that?

I been wanting to see what we have. Like RD said he was thrown into a situation which is tough to prepare for. His two passes to JSN were not on the same page, and that is a result of no first team reps and coming in cold. Not giving him a pass but not saying he did so bad that it's worth shelving the idea. He was at least pushing the ball down the field. The first pass to JSN may have been a completed if both were on the same page, he put it in a catchable window, but that's probably 50% Lock and 50% JSN to blame. The second deep pass came off the finger tips of JSN, which would have been a tough catch and not the best thrown ball but again if JSN pulls that in who knows where the game could have been. The INT was a poorly thrown ball, and 100% on Lock as he way underthrew that, but that was on 3rd and 11. Had he thrown and incomplete pass it would have been a punt situation next play, so that INT turns into a short punt anyhow.

I am not letting go the idea of giving Lock a run, as we may actually get him to start this Thursday depending on Geno's injury. He pushes the ball down field, but it's hard to say that Geno played all the better. If Geno is healthy by all means he should be the starter, but the way he has played at times and his poor management of the offense makes me wonder why not give Lock a series or two.

Looking at the Rams Game alone, lets see the good vs the bad with Genome

First Drive was an absolute dream for the hawks, chewed up clock we were great on 3rd downs, and we were great in the Red Zone. Once Rams made some adjustments, and pressured Geno it was all down hill from there. Once again the Hawk's offense can move the ball between the 20s, but cant cap it off.

The bad;
Geno crumbles in the pocket and doesn't step up to either run or dump it off and takes stupid sacks.
Geno has no clock awareness and takes a delay a game penalty after we just had a false start penalty.
Last drive the game when DK catches the ball for a 1st down, there is 41 secs on the clock, instead of spiking it there and taking the time to run an effective play call, they run the ball with ZC and get 2 yards and burn up all the remaining time and have to spike to kick a long FG. The clock management may not all be on Geno, but he is up there commanding that offense and needs to know he has a 1st down with 40+ secs on the clock. Spike it, with lets say 33 secs left, call a play on 2nd down that maybe gets your 5 to 8 more yards, and spike it with less than 7 secs and kick a shorter FG

So all in all I think Geno is still playing pretty poor, and if you are good with that then I am happy for you, but it's not good enough to sustain winning and we have to try Lock if he isn't 100% healthy.

[Uppercut]

I am wondering if there are any used QB's we can hire if Geno goes out and Lock cannot cut it?

[NorthHawk]

To be fair, Lock went in cold and didn't look great, but he hasn't had many reps with the #1s and probably even fewer in game plays, so we don't really know what we have with him.
Maybe what we saw the last game is who he is as a QB, but maybe not.

[RiverDog]

To be fair, Lock went in cold and didn't look great, but he hasn't had many reps with the #1s and probably even fewer in game plays, so we don't really know what we have with him.
Maybe what we saw the last game is who he is as a QB, but maybe not.

I'm certainly not going to use last Sunday as a measuring stick for Lock, but we've had him long enough to know that he's not our QBOTF. He was on the squad all last season, not to mention that he has a fair size body of work with the Broncos.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm certainly not going to use last Sunday as a measuring stick for Lock, but we've had him long enough to know that he's not our QBOTF. He was on the squad all last season, not to mention that he has a fair size body of work with the Broncos.

Lock had his chance in Denver.

[RiverDog]

I'm certainly not going to use last Sunday as a measuring stick for Lock, but we've had him long enough to know that he's not our QBOTF. He was on the squad all last season, not to mention that he has a fair size body of work with the Broncos.

Lock had his chance in Denver.

Yup. He had 21 starts in Denver and threw nearly as many INT's as he did TD's, which is why the Broncos were so willing to part with him. A player can't hope for 2nd and 3rd chances in the NFL, especially at the QB position. Geno is luckier than all get out to have gotten a 4th chance with us.