Should we trade DK?

[4XPIPS]

This is a bold statement and most likely will never happen. I know there is a big difference between should we vs will it actually happen.

Here are my thoughts, but I am fed up with him and I don't think Pete or anyone else in this organization can get through to him. I believe DK will do what DK does and if that means he lets his temper take over and his actions result in pointless penalties, well we all know that will continue. I credit him for playing through injuries and whenever there is a turnover he hustles to make the tackle. However, I am not sure if or how much of the offense is designed around him. I would be happy to see Bobo out there more than DK at this point. I know it wouldn't happen, but what if it did. I think we could get something for him. Would our offense suffer if he was not in the rotation?

[c_hawkbob]

[RiverDog]

This is a bold statement and most likely will never happen. I know there is a big difference between should we vs will it actually happen.

Here are my thoughts, but I am fed up with him and I don't think Pete or anyone else in this organization can get through to him. I believe DK will do what DK does and if that means he lets his temper take over and his actions result in pointless penalties, well we all know that will continue. I credit him for playing through injuries and whenever there is a turnover he hustles to make the tackle. However, I am not sure if or how much of the offense is designed around him. I would be happy to see Bobo out there more than DK at this point. I know it wouldn't happen, but what if it did. I think we could get something for him. Would our offense suffer if he was not in the rotation?

I advocated trading Metcalf before we resigned him to that big contract.

His behavior isn't my primary concern. I just don't like spending a lot of resources on wide receivers. At least 25% of the time, their involvement in plays is very minimal. Good wide receivers are a dime a dozen, Jake Bobo being a prime example. In our Lombardi season, our two starting wide receivers were Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse, both UFDA's. Many of the game's greatest wide receivers, like Megatron, AJ Green, and Dez Bryant, never made it to a Super Bowl. Most can't block worth a damn.

If we could get a couple of first round picks and a decent player, I'd trade Metcalf in a heartbeat.

[Spohawk5092]

its really clear that he needs to be put on a leash. I said as much in a post yesterday with thoughts about Carrolls post game comments. He needs to be told in no uncertain terms, get ahold of your temper or you can watch from the sidelines.

[NorthHawk]

To answer the question, no we shouldn't trade DK.
WRs are diva's by nature so it comes with the territory and I just expect it from most to some degree.

[4XPIPS]

To answer the question, no we shouldn't trade DK.
WRs are diva's by nature so it comes with the territory and I just expect it from most to some degree.

Not all great WRs are divas. Some have been excellent team leaders like Megatron, and most recently Fitz. Teams have moved on elite players in the past when they make the game about themself, even if they are the best at their position. Look at Jalen Ramsey, OBJ, A. Brown. Now most of those are extreme Divas, but they were top of their game and at some point it wasn't worth having that distraction. I rather go in the season with a bunch of players who play for the team and not themselves. Nothing wrong with players with high passion for the game.

I thought DK would grow up once we became the household name for the offense, but in his recent interview he said he didn't take accountability for the penalty because he couldn't hear the whistle blow. That is a pathetic excuse. As long as I lived in Arizona and watched every Cardinals game(wife is a Cardinals Fan) through out Fitz's career I could not remember him committing these pointless penalties, and he was an excellent blocker for a WR. Maybe it isn't a fair comparison to a first ballot hall of famer, but for what we are paying DK we are expecting greatness from him and he isn't delivering it win or loss..

[NorthHawk]

When I think NFL Diva, I think WR. So to me it's a common quality found at that position more than others. CB might be the closest, but WR is the first thing to come to mind for me.

[RiverDog]

When I think NFL Diva, I think WR. So to me it's a common quality found at that position more than others. CB might be the closest, but WR is the first thing to come to mind for me.

That's true, but as my mother used to tell me, two wrongs don't make a right.

The problem is that Metcalf's antics, if left unchecked, could come back and bite us in the ass big time. All Pete has done is give the issue lip service, and he's running the risk of losing the respect of the rest of the team by his allowing Metcalf to do as he pleases without the slightest consequence. He needs to sit him, at least for the first drive, perhaps the first quarter. It's as much about sending a signal to the rest of the team as it is tightening the leash on Metcalf.

[HawkDawg]

To answer the question, no we shouldn't trade DK.
WRs are diva's by nature so it comes with the territory and I just expect it from most to some degree.

Per ABC News:

"He has been flagged 10 times for either taunting, unsportsmanlike conduct, unnecessary roughness or disqualification, the most in the NFL since he made his debut in 2019. His 28 total penalties in that span are five more than any other receiver."

https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/seahawks-dk-metcalf-penalties-change/story?id=104126803#:~:text=He%20has%20been%20flagged%2010,more%20than%20any%20other%20receiver.

According to this, he's getting worse:

https://www.nflpenalties.com/player/dk-metcalf-seattle-seahawks?year=2022

If he's like this on the field, wonder what he's like in the locker room? Dude has COST US GAMES and set us back more than anyone on the team. I'm reminded of Housh, Harvin and the like. Dump him and free up some space.

Edit with a P.S. Maybe the Broncos would take him?

[jshawaii22]

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/dk-metcalf-vows-not-to-change-the-way-he-plays[/url]

If we intend to draft a QB this year, in what looks like one of the best groups of good and possibly great QB's to come out, then by all means, let trade him and use the picks to move up in the draft.
I doubt we get more then a mid-first at this point but you never know. DK is not a "1" -- he's a 1.5 at best and probably a 2. He still doesn't use his body enough to get defenders off him without using his hands.

it's what it is. We have another 9-8 or similar year and won't improve without making changes.

[RiverDog]

[url]https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/dk-metcalf-vows-not-to-change-the-way-he-plays[/url]

If we intend to draft a QB this year, in what looks like one of the best groups of good and possibly great QB's to come out, then by all means, let trade him and use the picks to move up in the draft.
I doubt we get more then a mid-first at this point but you never know. DK is not a "1" -- he's a 1.5 at best and probably a 2. He still doesn't use his body enough to get defenders off him without using his hands.

it's what it is. We have another 9-8 or similar year and won't improve without making changes.

Here's a snippit from the article you linked:

Metcalf’s position was steadfast, despite coach Pete Carroll showing the team the most penalized players every week.

“We put all penalties on the board in Monday’s meetings, and the guys that have the most are on the top,” Carroll told reporters. “He was up there with another guy. We all have to acknowledge it and recognize what our issues are, whatever they are, and it happens to be in this case. He’s getting called. He knows. He’s got to clean it up and we have to make sure that we’re aware of how they’re calling stuff. He’s a very aggressive player and very physical and it stands out and he draws attention because of that. We’ve got to be cleaner. He knows it and he’s got to get it done.”

Metcalf didn’t seem to be moved by Carroll’s gesture.

"“It’s just a board to me, I’m not going to change the way I play,” Metcalf told reporters. “If you look at the penalties, there’s a taunting, unnecessary roughness, facemask, holding, and I think it was one more in there. I’m doing pretty good if I look at it and judge myself knowing how I play and just try to be consistent and have clean hands or whatever the case maybe, but I’m not going to change who I am as a player or a person.”

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootba ... y-he-plays

Like I said, all Pete does is give the issue lip service. Metcalf does as he pleases with no fear of even the mildest of discipline by directly disobeying the head coach.

Metcalf is a marked man who has established a reputation for himself, not only with opposing players, but the officials as well. Referees are human beings, and many of them don't like Metcalf's behavior, either, because he puts them on the spot. He's not going to get a break from them.

[NorthHawk]

I've always been torn about these type of things.
On the one hand a team doesn't get better trading away good talent, but on the other hand it can become an issue for both the team and success.
We don't know what's going on outside of the game and whether or not he's a disruption of the team. I doubt that because Pete, for all of his faults can see that and would act to mitigate the changes.
Whether it's team discipline, or other motivational means, he's all about the team and chemistry.

[RiverDog]

I've always been torn about these type of things.
On the one hand a team doesn't get better trading away good talent, but on the other hand it can become an issue for both the team and success.
We don't know what's going on outside of the game and whether or not he's a disruption of the team. I doubt that because Pete, for all of his faults can see that and would act to mitigate the changes.
Whether it's team discipline, or other motivational means, he's all about the team and chemistry.

I wouldn't make that assumption. Remember, this is the same Pete Carroll who didn't do a damn thing about Percy Harvin when he got into a fist fight with Golden Tate. It wasn't until Harvin refused to go into a game when he was told to that Pete finally decided to act. Pete's a politician, not a policeman with a Billy club.

You're correct, we don't know what's going on behind closed doors. Coaches and players alike go to great lengths to cover up locker room problems. Besides, these things don't tend to surface when a team is winning, and prior to our loss to the Bengals, we had won 3 games in a row. But there's no doubt that this situation with Metcalf is a powder keg.

[NorthHawk]

The problem with trading a player like DK is we would be pursuing a trade which puts us in a weak position.
Instead of getting a 1st rounder for him we might have difficulty getting a high 2nd round pick.

We also would have to look at a team that might use him and his talents.
To me, the Colts would be a good choice with a young QB who has a big arm. DK would have about half of a year to understand the Colts Offense before Richardson gets back on the field.
Another team might be the Titans who lost AJ Brown and are still looking for a big WR. The Bears might be desperate enough and of course there always the Donkeys (but they might have had enough of trading with us).
Texans and commanders come to mind as well, but how high of a pick would they give up?
The worst teams if they have a young QB will probably be able to get a good WR in the draft. That will eliminate a couple of possibilities, but if we are lucky an early 2nd might be achievable.

[4XPIPS]

Like I said, all Pete does is give the issue lip service. Metcalf does as he pleases with no fear of even the mildest of discipline by directly disobeying the head coach.

Metcalf is a marked man who has established a reputation for himself, not only with opposing players, but the officials as well. Referees are human beings, and many of them don't like Metcalf's behavior, either, because he puts them on the spot. He's not going to get a break from them.

This just validates his stance as how he views himself being aggressive vs how he views himself hurting the team. When I watched the play where he threw Britt to the ground, he was 15 yards + away from the play, and aggressive blocking that far away has no strategic benefit to the offense. As it has been stated that he couldn't hear the whistle is purely a lack of discipline. Now we can clearly see that he won't change, and this will continue and at what point does it cost us a game.

If DK is traded, would our passing game suffer? Most likely yes, but at the same time how can we better our team. How about trade DK for a stellar Offensive Guard at this point and a pick? Shoring up the interior part of our offensive line can do much more than a Diaper Temper out there shoving players around only to be a dumb bully.

The sad truth is that DK can have a stellar career, and break all types of records, but he is choosing to live within his own world and make the game about him.

[4XPIPS]

The problem with trading a player like DK is we would be pursuing a trade which puts us in a weak position.
Instead of getting a 1st rounder for him we might have difficulty getting a high 2nd round pick.

We also would have to look at a team that might use him and his talents.
To me, the Colts would be a good choice with a young QB who has a big arm. DK would have about half of a year to understand the Colts Offense before Richardson gets back on the field.
Another team might be the Titans who lost AJ Brown and are still looking for a big WR. The Bears might be desperate enough and of course there always the Donkeys (but they might have had enough of trading with us).
Texans and commanders come to mind as well, but how high of a pick would they give up?
The worst teams if they have a young QB will probably be able to get a good WR in the draft. That will eliminate a couple of possibilities, but if we are lucky an early 2nd might be achievable.

If we are talking just contract alone, it is a low risk for a team to take a flyer on him as he is only truly locked in for next year and there is an out in 2025. Most likely a team that would want DK would try and pony up a longer term to him considering they gave up draft capital to acquire him. Just like we did for Jamal Adams, we gave up draft capital and awarded him big money for his position. That is working out smoothly for us.

The only thing hurting his draft capital isn't the production on the field, because we aren't a passing team to begin with, it's his attitude and aforementioned play style. It would have to be a coach or team management that would be willing on taking the risk to connect with him and get production out of him. I still think he can garner a 1st round pick, but it would be select few teams out there.

This sort of reminds me of Stephon Diggs, who wasn't gelling with the Vikings and they traded him away to Bills who eventually drafted Jefferson and that worked out for both parties.

[RiverDog]

I still think he can garner a 1st round pick, but it would be select few teams out there.

We should be able to get a lot more than a single first round pick. The Chiefs got 5 draft picks for Tyreek Hill, and although Metcalf might not be at quite that level of play, he should still be able to garner a 1st plus. Unless it's a guaranteed top 10 pick, if we can't get more than the single first rounder, I say hold onto him.

[c_hawkbob]

Should Detroit have traded Calvin Johnson after his first 4 years over a few extra penalties? I know you guys don't like to talk "Hall of Fame worthy" but a direct comparison of Megatron to DK over their first 4 years put him on exactly that kind of pace:

DK Metcalf: 306 rec (499 targets, 61.3% catch rate), 4218 yards, 35 TDs
Megatron: 270 rec (517 targets, 52.2% catch rate), 4191 yards, 33 TDs

And you guys wanna give up on him now? Sorry but it's just silly.

[trents]

I'm not sure who needs to go first, Metcalf or Pete. Pete isn't willing or able to put leashes on out of control players. It's just not his makeup. And there will always be those kind of players who need to be leashed. There are some things I really like about Pete. He's a good, decent man. He's positive. He's never out of control and doesn't embarrass the organization or the city by his lifestyle or his words. But, he has trouble with team discipline.

[RiverDog]

Should Detroit have traded Calvin Johnson after his first 4 years over a few extra penalties? I know you guys don't like to talk "Hall of Fame worthy" but a direct comparison of Megatron to DK over their first 4 years put him on exactly that kind of pace:

DK Metcalf: 306 rec (499 targets, 61.3% catch rate), 4218 yards, 35 TDs
Megatron: 270 rec (517 targets, 52.2% catch rate), 4191 yards, 33 TDs

And you guys wanna give up on him now? Sorry but it's just silly.

Just silly? I hope that you realize that by bringing up Calvin Johnson, you're making a comparison that begs us to trade Metcalf.

How did the Lions fare with Calvin Johnson? Could they have done any worse by trading him? What's the object here, to have players on your team that make the HOF or to win championships?

Megatron played for the Lions from 2007-2015. Here's how the Lions did during his tenure:

2007 7-9 3rd
2008 0-16 4th
2009 2-14 4th
2010 6-10 3rd
2011 10-6 2nd
2012 4-12 4th
2013 7-9 3rd
2014 11-5 2nd
2015 7-9 3rd

The Lions overall record with Megatron was 54-90, a .375 winning percentage. They had 2 out of 9 seasons with winning records, no first-place finishes, and zero playoff wins. Yet based on your comparison with Calvin Johnson, you're arguing that we should keep Metcalf? Now who's being silly?

[c_hawkbob]

You act like it's an either/or proposition: great team or great players, it's not. Megatron was a great player on a bad team, like Tez. And also like Tez he wasn't the reason they were a bad team.

My comparison's validity is in the almost identical physical makeup and skillset of the two platers. What we'd be giving up on as a player if we traded him away now.

[NorthHawk]

And that gets back to my conundrum of do you improve your team by trading away good talent?
If it means getting a real good QBOTF, then it would also mean one less receiver to throw to. But maybe it might be for the best in the longer term.

For me, this is just for discussion purposes and I don't think he should be traded at this time, but it's interesting to explore ideas of where he could go and how much compensation he would get.
I do think we overvalue our own players and would be surprised if we got more than a 1st for him and just as surprised if we got a high 1st should they trade him.

[RiverDog]

You act like it's an either/or proposition: great team or great players, it's not. Megatron was a great player on a bad team, like Tez. And also like Tez he wasn't the reason they were a bad team.

My comparison's validity is in the almost identical physical makeup and skillset of the two platers. What we'd be giving up on as a player if we traded him away now.

I am not making an either/or proposition. I am simply pointing out an undeniable fact, that Megatron didn't do his team any good. Sure, there's anomalies at other positions, like Tez, a great DT on a horrible team, or Anthony Munoz, one of the best OT's in the history of the game, and he played on horrible teams. Same story with JJ Watt. Of course, those guys didn't cause their teams to lose, nor did Megatron cause the Lions to lose, at least not directly.

But there are more HOF quality WR's on average or bad teams than there are HOF DT's or OT's, especially human specimens like Megatron and Metcalf, ie Dez Bryant, AJ Green, Chad Johnson, et al, don't generally help their teams win championships. I'd rather spend our capital on a great DL or OT and get by with very good but not HOF quality wide receivers, like Baldwin and Kearse. A friend of mine put it best: In general, the further away you line up from the football, the less valuable you are to your team.

If someone were to give us 2-#1's for Metcalf, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[RiverDog]

And that gets back to my conundrum of do you improve your team by trading away good talent?
If it means getting a real good QBOTF, then it would also mean one less receiver to throw to. But maybe it might be for the best in the longer term.

For me, this is just for discussion purposes and I don't think he should be traded at this time, but it's interesting to explore ideas of where he could go and how much compensation he would get.
I do think we overvalue our own players and would be surprised if we got more than a 1st for him and just as surprised if we got a high 1st should they trade him.

I agree except for the compensation you are assuming that we'd get. The Chiefs got a #1 and 4 other draft picks for Tyreek Hill. Metcalf probably isn't as good of a WR as Hill, but he should be able to garner more than a single #1 pick. That is, unless we end up in a position like we did with Percy Harvin, where we had to trade him immediately because of his insubordination, something that could very well end up happening to us with Metcalf.

[Uppercut]

He probably wants to go to the Niners

[NorthHawk]

Tyreek Hill is a game changer. DK isn't and I'm not sure he ever could be. He can make big plays at times but he's not the constant threat the top WRs are. And then there's the penalties.
Again, if we try to trade him we will be in a weaker position than if a team came calling about him. So I doubt we would get a 1st round pick unless it's very late and the equivalent of a 2nd rounder except that we would have a 5th year option.

[RiverDog]

Tyreek Hill is a game changer. DK isn't and I'm not sure he ever could be. He can make big plays at times but he's not the constant threat the top WRs are. And then there's the penalties.
Again, if we try to trade him we will be in a weaker position than if a team came calling about him. So I doubt we would get a 1st round pick unless it's very late and the equivalent of a 2nd rounder except that we would have a 5th year option.

I agree that Metcalf isn't the equivalent of a Tyreek Hill and said so in my previous remarks. And I agree that we shouldn't be trying to trade Metcalf by making it known that we want to dump him, that we would be better off if we were in the position of entertaining offers. That's why I brought up Percy Harvin. If the situation with Metcalf ever gets to the point where Pete and Co. is fed up with Metcalf...and based on recent remarks by both Pete and Metcalf, that's a distinct possibility...we're going to be in a very weak position.

What I am saying is that if the opportunity presents itself, if we get an offer of a 1st rounder plus, that we should strongly consider trading him. If we get offered two #1's, we'd be fools not to.

[NorthHawk]

What I am saying is that if the opportunity presents itself, if we get an offer of a 1st rounder plus, that we should strongly consider trading him. If we get offered two #1's, we'd be fools not to.

It would certainly have to be seriously considered.
But there are a number of very good WRs coming out in just about every year, so teams who need one are probably going that route instead of a trade for a veteran unless that veteran is very special.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't know who this Kareem Elgazzar is but I swear he's lurking here, he wrote this:

Silly things happen after tough losses. That seems to be what is happening for some fans of the Seattle Seahawks after the loss to the Bengals.

https://atozsports.com/seattle/seahawks ... EH2FnuDRPo

I swear I wrote my post before this dude...

[RiverDog]

I don't know who this Kareem Elgazzar is but I swear he's lurking here, he wrote this:

Silly things happen after tough losses. That seems to be what is happening for some fans of the Seattle Seahawks after the loss to the Bengals. https://atozsports.com/seattle/seahawks ... EH2FnuDRPo

I swear I wrote my post before this dude...

I've been advocating that we trade Metcalf for well over a year, before we signed him to an extension. Our loss to the Bengals has nothing to do with my position.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'd trade DK for a quality O-line player over a draft pick at this point. A proven O-line player that can stay on the field. Though who knows, they probably come here and start getting hurt. I'd still trade DK for an O-line guy. We thought that was fixed, but it looks like we'll need to draft more O-line next year.

[RiverDog]

I'd trade DK for a quality O-line player over a draft pick at this point. A proven O-line player that can stay on the field. Though who knows, they probably come here and start getting hurt. I'd still trade DK for an O-line guy. We thought that was fixed, but it looks like we'll need to draft more O-line next year.

I wasn't under the impression that the OL was fixed and was disappointed that we didn't dedicate more draft capital to the problem.

If we do trade Metcalf for a player, OL would be one of my top position choices. But he'd better be damn good, no less than Pro Bowl quality. No projects.

[NorthHawk]

I would go for draft picks. Maybe bundling up some of them to move up in the 1st round for a QB that can be developed into a difference maker.

[Spohawk5092]

article in my Spokane paper this morning. Coach has talked to DK about his penalties. But its clear in DK's comments he is going to continue to "do my thing." I hear he may not be playing today.

[curmudgeon]

Unequivocally yes…..l

[jshawaii22]

Nothing that happened today changed my opinion that we can live without DK moving forward if we can get a decent return for him. We will need a new QB in 2 years, so in order to draft one of the top coming out this year we probably will need to move up. JSN looked good on the 4 targets, but then they stopped throwing to him. Not sure why.

[RiverDog]

Nothing that happened today changed my opinion that we can live without DK moving forward if we can get a decent return for him. We will need a new QB in 2 years, so in order to draft one of the top coming out this year we probably will need to move up. JSN looked good on the 4 targets, but then they stopped throwing to him. Not sure why.

Yup. I hardly realized that Metcalf wasn't out there. We were chin deep in WR's even before the emergence of Jake Bobo. They're a dime a dozen. That's why it frustrates me to see us devote so many of our precious resources to the position.

And BTW, in the other Hawks forum that I frequent, there is a strong consensus that we trade Metcalf, so let's not pretend that this thread is composed of some random musings by a handful of irrational DK haters.

[NorthHawk]

They have to change the Safety situation before WR, in my opinion. Not enough productivity for too much money.

[RiverDog]

They have to change the Safety situation before WR, in my opinion. Not enough productivity for too much money.

The difference is that we have some promising young talent already in the fold at WR, ie JSN and Bobo, but not so much at safety. But I agree, we're dedicating way too much money to both positions.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I'm reluctant to get ahead of myself over Smith-Njigba and Bobo until they both actually emerge. I like what I'm seeing, but a few games of production from them doesn't make Metcalf expendable. He's also not untouchable either. I'm more concerned about his propensity for penalties than I am paying for his production. The dime a dozen argument suggests, in my opinion, that there are enough adequately talented WRs available in later rounds to get enough production the field. This a true to an extent; it depends a lot on the OC and the QB, but there's still top tier prospects who have attributes that just can't be taught. I say that to convey that I don't have a problem avoiding using high-round picks for WRs, but I fine with drafting a guy that looks like a top-tier talent in the early rounds. And, yes, there's some late round success stories like Kupp that over perform, but that is hardly representative of what a team can expect drafting all their WRs in the later rounds. Seattle has churned through a lot of late round guys. Baldwin and Lockett are the two late round success stories to their name. Bobo could be the next one. That's potentially 3 since 2011.

To answer the original question, I can go either way on it. If someone wants to give up the farm for him then jump on it. If the price isn't right, let him play out his contract and reassess at the end of it.