Ravens thoughts????

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I wasn't sure where you were going. You opened with getting our arses handed to us and sucking against great teams followed by it would be good to have Levis about now.

I took it as either:

1.) We aren't good enough to have a meaningful season, so have a QBOTF prospect learning the NFL game this year - or -
2.) We'd be beating the great teams if we had Levis.

I take it you mean 1.

I haven't watched him play; only stats. Good game against the Falcons; okay against the Steelers. I didn't think he warranted a first round grade; though he's not the move I would have made, I'd have been happy with him in the 2nd. Coming to a team where he wouldn't have the pressure to perform right away with Smith and Lock would have made a lot of sense.

[4XPIPS]

I wasn't sure where you were going. You opened with getting our arses handed to us and sucking against great teams followed by it would be good to have Levis about now.

I took it as either:

1.) We aren't good enough to have a meaningful season, so have a QBOTF prospect learning the NFL game this year - or -
2.) We'd be beating the great teams if we had Levis.

I take it you mean 1.

I haven't watched him play; only stats. Good game against the Falcons; okay against the Steelers. I didn't think he warranted a first round grade; though he's not the move I would have made, I'd have been happy with him in the 2nd. Coming to a team where he wouldn't have the pressure to perform right away with Smith and Lock would have made a lot of sense.

I am not speaking for c_hawkbob at all but I feel the same way about Levis. Levis gives you that hope an excitement for the future. His ceiling is far higher than Drew and Geno combined, and as bad as Geno has performed thus far it would been a great learning curve for Levis.

[c_hawkbob]

I wasn't sure where you were going. You opened with getting our arses handed to us and sucking against great teams followed by it would be good to have Levis about now.

I took it as either:

1.) We aren't good enough to have a meaningful season, so have a QBOTF prospect learning the NFL game this year - or -
2.) We'd be beating the great teams if we had Levis.

I take it you mean 1.

I haven't watched him play; only stats. Good game against the Falcons; okay against the Steelers. I didn't think he warranted a first round grade; though he's not the move I would have made, I'd have been happy with him in the 2nd. Coming to a team where he wouldn't have the pressure to perform right away with Smith and Lock would have made a lot of sense.

Yes, 1 is correct. Right now we have potential just about everywhere but at QB.

[c_hawkbob]

I am not speaking for c_hawkbob at all but I feel the same way about Levis. Levis gives you that hope an excitement for the future. His ceiling is far higher than Drew and Geno combined, and as bad as Geno has performed thus far it would been a great learning curve for Levis.

Agreed. I live in Kentucky so I'm very familiar with him. I argued on this forum during his sub par senior year that we needed to draft him. His junior year was spectacular, had he not been on one foot playing behind a terrible line his senior year he woulda been top 3 in the draft.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't think that was ever the plan. He's a this year guy; they aren't breaking the bank for a 31 year old defensive lineman when Reed and Jones are already on the books. I don't think he gets resigned.

A 2nd round pick is definitely breaking the bank. It's a bad move and bad assessment.

Back to back great drafts and you're already at they are screwing up this rebuild. I don't see how this computes.

If they didn't trade a 2nd round pick and were showing patience, I'd still be happy or happier. This is year 13 for Pete and John. Not year 1 or 4. They should know better than to trade 2nd round picks for a 10 game rental and should know this team is not ready for a Super Bowl run like they did when they first started.

So what's the play to get the DLine legitimate help this season? There's no way they could plan to win without getting some help. I'd rather they plan like they are going to win something now than not.

If I'm the GM? I sit on my draft capital, patiently watch this season to see how my drafts are working out rather than assume they are great drafts while my cornerstone tackles are starting to have problems with Cross not being a huge factor and Lucas sitting on the IR while Geno crumbles under pressure.

I want my 2nd round pick because Bobby is 33 years old and Brooks doesn't have the instincts Bobby has, so I'm looking at that 2nd round pick as my possible next, young Middle LB. My run defense is not bad just because of my D-line, but also because my backers are not strong enough on the outside to set the edge and push runners inside and my MLBs are not crushing the run at the line fast enough. So I want a 2nd round pick to build my LB corps.

To me the D-line isn't ideal, but the LBs are in worse shape than the D-line and that is why the run defense has fallen off. Tackles are an illusory number for LB effectiveness. In reality where they are making tackles is equally important.

When I look at the front seven, we're lacking more in the LB department than we are in the D-line department. 2nd round picks are a great place to pick up non-pass rushing MLBs.

That's' my team assessment. I'm getting tired of watching Pete and John assess this team's chances wrongly trading away quality draft capital a patient team would be using to rebuild key units like the LBs or maybe getting a quality 2nd round fat butt at guard or nose or maybe holding on to it to use it for a trade up if some quality QB drops to us or possibly a 2nd round pick QB.

When you pay a 2nd round pick for a 10 game rental Leonard Williams, you think you're a real Super Bowl contender and I don't see us as that at all.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

When you pay a 2nd round pick for a 10 game rental Leonard Williams, you think you're a real Super Bowl contender and I don't see us as that at all.

That's all a fair take, but I get where I think they are coming from. They aren't waiting for a point in the future to say they are now ready to make a run. Next year is next year. None of it is known, for good or for bad. If this team had a losing record and hadn't shown any potential and was full of aging vets, I'd be against the trade.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Agreed. I live in Kentucky so I'm very familiar with him. I argued on this forum during his sub par senior year that we needed to draft him. His junior year was spectacular, had he not been on one foot playing behind a terrible line his senior year he woulda been top 3 in the draft.

That's where I diverge on Levis. His 2021 campaign was good but 1400 of his 2800 yds and 13 of his 23 tds came against New Mexico St, Chattanooga, Louisiana-Monroe, and Tennessee (who allowed 284 passing yds/gm). He struggled against the rest of the SEC. His 2022 campaign was about the same though he missed one game; 983 of his 2400 yds and 9 of 19 tds came against Northern Illinois, Youngstown St, and Miami OH. I don't see how his body of work pushes him into the top half much less the top 5 of the first round. Like I said, I could have lived with him in the second round.

[Aseahawkfan]

That's all a fair take, but I get where I think they are coming from. They aren't waiting for a point in the future to say they are now ready to make a run. Next year is next year. None of it is known, for good or for bad. If this team had a losing record and hadn't shown any potential and was full of aging vets, I'd be against the trade.

I no longer feel satisfied with the playoffs and not being real contenders. This team needs more drafts to compete. Geno is not a Super Bowl winning QB. We're not one player away, we're still many players away from contention.

The only units I feel good about right now are the receivers and the secondary if Jamal is healthy.

ILBs, nope. OLB/pass rushers, nope. D-line, nope. O-line, nope. QB, nope. RBs, mixed but maybe. We need a lot more work to get this team to real contention. A 2nd round pick is worth far more to me than a 10 game rental.

I'm not sure if Pete's rushing because he knows his time is running out or if he truly believes we're in contention. Either or both could be true.

We're about to hit the harder part of our schedule and we'll see how we come out of it. Frisco is looking easier than they were looking.

[4XPIPS]

That's where I diverge on Levis. His 2021 campaign was good but 1400 of his 2800 yds and 13 of his 23 tds came against New Mexico St, Chattanooga, Louisiana-Monroe, and Tennessee (who allowed 284 passing yds/gm). He struggled against the rest of the SEC. His 2022 campaign was about the same though he missed one game; 983 of his 2400 yds and 9 of 19 tds came against Northern Illinois, Youngstown St, and Miami OH. I don't see how his body of work pushes him into the top half much less the top 5 of the first round. Like I said, I could have lived with him in the second round.

Levis by most accounts had a first round grade, and some experts felt that the Colts may have taken him over Anthony Richardson. Now I am no Will Levis expert, nor did I watch most of his college career, but looking back I believed he was graded for the first round given his measurables were off the chart, as much as Richardson was. Richardson, a dual threat QB made a splash for the Colts, but got injured scrambling out of the pocket and took and awkward fall which ended his rookie campaign.

The eye test certainly is a pass on Levis, if you go and watch his two games(NFL) and watch his throws he doesn't even need to step into a lot of his passes to deliver them deep. Not too many QBs in the league today have this natural gift where they can make a throw with pure upper body strength and technique. Mahomes is one of them as well. Just watch some one like Bryce Young throw a 40+ yard pass he has to step into his throw and follow through and lift his right leg off the ground to complete the motion.

Will Levis, literally can snap his waste line and just raise his right foot's back heel ever so slightly and deliver the ball deep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAW3kA8Pw9M

His is a video on his throwing mechanics.

[Aseahawkfan]

That's where I diverge on Levis. His 2021 campaign was good but 1400 of his 2800 yds and 13 of his 23 tds came against New Mexico St, Chattanooga, Louisiana-Monroe, and Tennessee (who allowed 284 passing yds/gm). He struggled against the rest of the SEC. His 2022 campaign was about the same though he missed one game; 983 of his 2400 yds and 9 of 19 tds came against Northern Illinois, Youngstown St, and Miami OH. I don't see how his body of work pushes him into the top half much less the top 5 of the first round. Like I said, I could have lived with him in the second round.

Stroud looks like the real deal. I know Pete and John wanted him to fall to us. Poor kid is in Houston where NFL careers go to die.

[RiverDog]

Agreed. I live in Kentucky so I'm very familiar with him. I argued on this forum during his sub par senior year that we needed to draft him. His junior year was spectacular, had he not been on one foot playing behind a terrible line his senior year he woulda been top 3 in the draft.

That's where I diverge on Levis. His 2021 campaign was good but 1400 of his 2800 yds and 13 of his 23 tds came against New Mexico St, Chattanooga, Louisiana-Monroe, and Tennessee (who allowed 284 passing yds/gm). He struggled against the rest of the SEC. His 2022 campaign was about the same though he missed one game; 983 of his 2400 yds and 9 of 19 tds came against Northern Illinois, Youngstown St, and Miami OH. I don't see how his body of work pushes him into the top half much less the top 5 of the first round. Like I said, I could have lived with him in the second round.

I'm good with us passing on Levis. John Schneider, who has as good an eye for quarterbacks as any GM in the league, had 2 chances to draft him and passed. Nearly every other GM had at least one chance to draft him but passed, including the one who eventually drafted him. He was projected to go in the top 10 if not the top 5 but fell like a rock into the 2nd round. He had one decent game vs. the Falcons then a very shaky one in a loss to the Steelers, so I don't see anything yet that would make me change my mind.

[c_hawkbob]

Agreed. I live in Kentucky so I'm very familiar with him. I argued on this forum during his sub par senior year that we needed to draft him. His junior year was spectacular, had he not been on one foot playing behind a terrible line his senior year he woulda been top 3 in the draft.

That's where I diverge on Levis. His 2021 campaign was good but 1400 of his 2800 yds and 13 of his 23 tds came against New Mexico St, Chattanooga, Louisiana-Monroe, and Tennessee (who allowed 284 passing yds/gm). He struggled against the rest of the SEC. His 2022 campaign was about the same though he missed one game; 983 of his 2400 yds and 9 of 19 tds came against Northern Illinois, Youngstown St, and Miami OH. I don't see how his body of work pushes him into the top half much less the top 5 of the first round. Like I said, I could have lived with him in the second round.

I've seen Levis play enough to base my opinion of his play on what I saw rather than crunching numbers.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I didn’t watch all his games, but I’m in SEC country, too. He wasn’t particularly impressive in the games against my alma mater MS State. There’s something to be said for the competition a QB faces, and the numbers are why I think he fell out of the first round. Doesn’t mean he can’t be successful in the NFL.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Stroud looks like the real deal. I know Pete and John wanted him to fall to us. Poor kid is in Houston where NFL careers go to die.

That’s a guy I’d have been happy to trade up for. It will be a real shame if they don’t build around him properly.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Will Levis, literally can snap his waste line and just raise his right foot's back heel ever so slightly and deliver the ball deep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAW3kA8Pw9M

His is a video on his throwing mechanics.

I’m not doubting his physical traits. He didn’t show enough against equal or better talented teams to warranted a high first round grade from me.

[NorthHawk]

He did for me. He was behind one of the worst college OLs in that year and still did fairly well. It's no surprise to me he started out well in his first couple of games. He had a good OL the year before and was thought to be one of the top QBs.
I also liked the fact he was under the guidance of Liam Coen as OC who worked for McVay just like Waldron. He would have come here already knowing the basic concepts and routes that the McVay Offense runs and made it easier to transition.

On a side note, in the back of my mind I get a feeling like JS could be one of those 'Window Shoppers' who won't buy unless it's on sale.
Let's look at his past drafts re QBs:
Wilson in the 3rd. Great pick but little risk.
Interested in Mahomes - didn't move up for him in the 1st.
Interested in Allen - didn't move up for him in the 1st.
Interested in Stroud and Levis (reportedly) - didn't move up to the 2nd pick when he had the draft ammo and/or players to complete the trade. Didn't select Levis with either of the two 1st round picks.
Has drafted 2 QBs since Wilson - both late round selections.

Just something to mull over...

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

On a side note, in the back of my mind I get a feeling like JS could be one of those 'Window Shoppers' who won't buy unless it's on sale.
Let's look at his past drafts re QBs:
Wilson in the 3rd. Great pick but little risk.
Interested in Mahomes - didn't move up for him in the 1st.
Interested in Allen - didn't move up for him in the 1st.
Interested in Stroud and Levis (reportedly) - didn't move up to the 2nd pick when he had the draft ammo and/or players to complete the trade. Didn't select Levis with either of the two 1st round picks.
Has drafted 2 QBs since Wilson - both late round selections.

Just something to mull over...

That is an interesting observation. When will they finally make a move to draft a top QB? Are they banking on find another Wilson in the rough? That's something I'm looking to see next April.

[NorthHawk]

Maybe a QB will fall into the late 1st or they trade down to the top of the 2nd and select one then, but long term we need an upgrade at QB so I hope we don’t continue to try to succeed with other teams castoffs.

[4XPIPS]

Prior's QB draft class was one of the worst QB draft classes to come out in recent years based on grading the talent. I think Pete and John did the right thing and avoided taking any QB in the class because it would have been a $hit show developing one of these QBs. Here are the QBs taken

Kenny Pickett taken at 20(1st Round), still starting but isn't setting the world on fire and the Steeler fan base has their concerns as he hasn't played great nor has he played horrible

Desmon Ridder take at 74(3rd Round), Falcons benched him recently for poor play, and he pretty much will be an after thought soon

Malik Willis taken 86(3rd Round), At least Titans did not over reach for him in the third round, but with Levis there it's pretty clear Willis isn't a starting caliber QB, and when he did start he was horrible

Matt Corral taken 94(3rd Round), Suffered and early injury his rookie season, but the Panthers drafted Bryce Young so that sums up how much the Panthers believe in Matt Corral

Bailey Zappe taken 137(4th Round), not a starter and can not usurp Mac Jones which is saying a lot, or I guess a little

Sam Howell taken 144(5th Round), playing decent for the Commanders, but does turn the ball over quite a bit too soon to say he will become a franchise QB

Chris Oladokun taken 241(7th round) Taken by the Steelers and already released and signed by the Chiefs

Skylar Thompson taken 247(7th Round) Still with Dolphins, but just a backup role.

Brock Purdy, last pick in the draft and we know his story quite well


There was a lot of hype for Malik Willis, and I remember Mina Kimes was pleading for the Seahawks to draft Malik Willis, which we all now are glad we didn't. So it's not like every year the draft grants franchise QBs, and I remember there was a big response for the Seahawks for not drafting Malik Willis and the response was his grade was not higher than Drew Lock's grade coming out of college, and glad they did their scouting because he is after thought now.

This upcoming draft has is much better and I would take a shot at trading up for Drake Maye, or if Bo Nix slips a bit and take a flyer with him.

[NorthHawk]

Your comment suggests you were talking about the 2022 draft, but last year was pretty good at the top when we had a high pick.

The 2024 QB draft doesn’t look like it has the extreme talent outside of Caleb Williams from USC that 2023 did, but there are a few QBs that might merit a late 1st or 2nd round pick. Earlier this year JS mentioned Quinn Ewers from Texas, so maybe he’s on their radar. From what I’ve seen of him, he reminds me of Lock with a big arm but some bad decisions.

[4XPIPS]

Your comment suggests you were talking about the 2022 draft, but last year was pretty good at the top when we had a high pick.

The 2024 QB draft doesn’t look like it has the extreme talent outside of Caleb Williams from USC that 2023 did, but there are a few QBs that might merit a late 1st or 2nd round pick. Earlier this year JS mentioned Quinn Ewers from Texas, so maybe he’s on their radar. From what I’ve seen of him, he reminds me of Lock with a big arm but some bad decisions.

Yes I said Prior's QB draft class, current QB draft class has a lot more talent to offer

CJ Stroud *starter
Bryce Young *starter
Will Levis *starter
Anthony Richardson *stater/IR
Hendon Hooker **great potential
Jake Haener
Stetson Bennett
Aidan O’Connell *starter
Clayton Tune *started, but back up now
Dorian Thompson-Robinson *utilized at times
Sean Clifford **has potential

I should have clarified my point, I was responding why we haven't drafted a QB for the future considering we have gone through two drafts and passed on potential rookie talent. With Russ at the helm there was never a need to draft a replacement, but once he was gone it would almost seem incumbent upon us to draft a QB to develop, but "Prior's QB Draft class" was not a good group as I illustrated, but we did miss out on some potential in this "current QB draft class"

[NorthHawk]

I see. I consider the current draft class as those entering the 2024 draft. Thus my confusion.

[EmeraldBullet]

Yes, 1 is correct. Right now we have potential just about everywhere but at QB.

This isnt really a bad spot to be tho.

[c_hawkbob]

Yes, 1 is correct. Right now we have potential just about everywhere but at QB.

This isnt really a bad spot to be tho.

No, going forward it's not. Can sure be frustrating along the way though.