Witherspoon

[RiverDog]

When I read this article, I had to share this article with you guys:

Here’s (ESPN analyst Bill) Barnwell’s rationale for making Seattle’s standout corner his frontrunner for the DROY award at the season’s midpoint:

Nobody on the Seahawks can feel good about getting blown out in Baltimore on Sunday afternoon, but that’s not going to define Seattle’s season. Witherspoon has very conspicuously emerged as a force in the secondary, settling in and immediately looking like a veteran.

After missing the Week 1 loss to the Rams with an injury, he has been virtually an every-down players. He made 11 tackles in the win over the Panthers, but his coming-out party was in Week 4, when he tormented the Giants for 2 sacks, 2 tackles for loss, 3 quarterback knockdowns and a 97-yard pick-12 to put the game to bed. He followed that with a viral hit on Rondale Moore against the Cardinals, albeit on a play that produced a first down.

The Seahawks started with Witherspoon playing outside before moving him into the slot, which speaks to a flexibility that we almost never see from rookie corners. He has been great in both places. He has been targeted 51 times as the nearest defender in coverage, allowing just 5.4 yards per target while giving up two touchdowns in eight games. The only cornerbacks with 200 or more coverage snaps who have allowed fewer yards per target this season are Xavien Howard and L’Jarius Sneed.

Seattle still is a heavy zone team, so Witherspoon isn’t the sort of traveling man-coverage defender we associate with the league’s best corners, but he’s off to a spectacular start.

The comments below are from Frank T. Raines:

I’ll add to Barnwell’s research, using the same 200 snaps criteria:

Among cornerbacks with at least 200 snaps, Witherspoon has the 6th-lowest passer rating allowed at 56.7
His 6 pass breakups (PBUs) are tied for the 4th-most league-wide
Witherspoon’s overall score on PFF (80.2) is the league’s 10th-best, his coverage grade (77.7) is 15th-best, and his pass-rush grade (91.2) is tied for No. 1

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/es ... e0fa&ei=36

It's obviously, way, way too early to break out the anointing oil. But I'm going to go way out on a limb. At this point, just halfway through his rookie season, it is my judgement that Witherspoon is the best first round selection we've made in the Pete Carroll era, meaning that I'll put him ahead of Earl Thomas.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

It's nice to see he's looking the part his draft status would suggest. Got to make those 1st rounders count.

[4XPIPS]

When I read this article, I had to share this article with you guys:

Here’s (ESPN analyst Bill) Barnwell’s rationale for making Seattle’s standout corner his frontrunner for the DROY award at the season’s midpoint:

Nobody on the Seahawks can feel good about getting blown out in Baltimore on Sunday afternoon, but that’s not going to define Seattle’s season. Witherspoon has very conspicuously emerged as a force in the secondary, settling in and immediately looking like a veteran.

After missing the Week 1 loss to the Rams with an injury, he has been virtually an every-down players. He made 11 tackles in the win over the Panthers, but his coming-out party was in Week 4, when he tormented the Giants for 2 sacks, 2 tackles for loss, 3 quarterback knockdowns and a 97-yard pick-12 to put the game to bed. He followed that with a viral hit on Rondale Moore against the Cardinals, albeit on a play that produced a first down.

The Seahawks started with Witherspoon playing outside before moving him into the slot, which speaks to a flexibility that we almost never see from rookie corners. He has been great in both places. He has been targeted 51 times as the nearest defender in coverage, allowing just 5.4 yards per target while giving up two touchdowns in eight games. The only cornerbacks with 200 or more coverage snaps who have allowed fewer yards per target this season are Xavien Howard and L’Jarius Sneed.

Seattle still is a heavy zone team, so Witherspoon isn’t the sort of traveling man-coverage defender we associate with the league’s best corners, but he’s off to a spectacular start.

The comments below are from Frank T. Raines:

I’ll add to Barnwell’s research, using the same 200 snaps criteria:

Among cornerbacks with at least 200 snaps, Witherspoon has the 6th-lowest passer rating allowed at 56.7
His 6 pass breakups (PBUs) are tied for the 4th-most league-wide
Witherspoon’s overall score on PFF (80.2) is the league’s 10th-best, his coverage grade (77.7) is 15th-best, and his pass-rush grade (91.2) is tied for No. 1

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/es ... e0fa&ei=36

It's obviously, way, way too early to break out the anointing oil. But I'm going to go way out on a limb. At this point, just halfway through his rookie season, it is my judgement that Witherspoon is the best first round selection we've made in the Pete Carroll era, meaning that I'll put him ahead of Earl Thomas.

Whoa Whoa pump the brakes, I know it's early but let's see at the end of the season. If we are just judging the rookie season alone then I would say Bruce Irvin deserves to be in that conversation. He had 8 sacks as a rookie, and one in the playoffs. I wouldn't usurp Earl Thomas as of yet, but he did have a solid rookie 2010 campaign, with 5 ints for a safety.

[Aseahawkfan]

Spoon is looking good. But a lot of other highly touted players are falling off making the past drafts look not as good.

Lucas is sitting on IR.
Riq is nowhere near last year.
KW3 still doing well enough.
I think RD said Cross is a middling LT at best according to ratings.
Boye Mafe is doing pretty well.
Charbonnett isn't getting many snaps, but doing ok.
Derrick Hall is doing nothing.

[Agent 86]

When I read this article, I had to share this article with you guys:

Here’s (ESPN analyst Bill) Barnwell’s rationale for making Seattle’s standout corner his frontrunner for the DROY award at the season’s midpoint:

Nobody on the Seahawks can feel good about getting blown out in Baltimore on Sunday afternoon, but that’s not going to define Seattle’s season. Witherspoon has very conspicuously emerged as a force in the secondary, settling in and immediately looking like a veteran.

After missing the Week 1 loss to the Rams with an injury, he has been virtually an every-down players. He made 11 tackles in the win over the Panthers, but his coming-out party was in Week 4, when he tormented the Giants for 2 sacks, 2 tackles for loss, 3 quarterback knockdowns and a 97-yard pick-12 to put the game to bed. He followed that with a viral hit on Rondale Moore against the Cardinals, albeit on a play that produced a first down.

The Seahawks started with Witherspoon playing outside before moving him into the slot, which speaks to a flexibility that we almost never see from rookie corners. He has been great in both places. He has been targeted 51 times as the nearest defender in coverage, allowing just 5.4 yards per target while giving up two touchdowns in eight games. The only cornerbacks with 200 or more coverage snaps who have allowed fewer yards per target this season are Xavien Howard and L’Jarius Sneed.

Seattle still is a heavy zone team, so Witherspoon isn’t the sort of traveling man-coverage defender we associate with the league’s best corners, but he’s off to a spectacular start.

The comments below are from Frank T. Raines:

I’ll add to Barnwell’s research, using the same 200 snaps criteria:

Among cornerbacks with at least 200 snaps, Witherspoon has the 6th-lowest passer rating allowed at 56.7
His 6 pass breakups (PBUs) are tied for the 4th-most league-wide
Witherspoon’s overall score on PFF (80.2) is the league’s 10th-best, his coverage grade (77.7) is 15th-best, and his pass-rush grade (91.2) is tied for No. 1

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/es ... e0fa&ei=36

It's obviously, way, way too early to break out the anointing oil. But I'm going to go way out on a limb. At this point, just halfway through his rookie season, it is my judgement that Witherspoon is the best first round selection we've made in the Pete Carroll era, meaning that I'll put him ahead of Earl Thomas.

Love it RD! It's certainly a topic worth debating at this point. Earl set a high bar, alebeit his exit from the franchise was less than ideal. But Witherspoon is certainly off to a start that might put him in that category as "best 1st rounder" in the Pete Carroll era. Obviously lots of road ahead, but the conversation/debate can be had.

I've already previously declared my man crush on 'Spoon, so I would be right there with you on this one. Time will tell, but I hope it keeps going this way for him. Difference maker, playmaker. Which is what Earl was.

[RiverDog]

Whoa Whoa pump the brakes, I know it's early but let's see at the end of the season. If we are just judging the rookie season alone then I would say Bruce Irvin deserves to be in that conversation. He had 8 sacks as a rookie, and one in the playoffs. I wouldn't usurp Earl Thomas as of yet, but he did have a solid rookie 2010 campaign, with 5 ints for a safety.

Bruce Irvin? You gotta be kidding me! Yes, Irvin was a decent pass rusher, but he got trucked on the run. In that playoff game vs. Atlanta when Irvin replaced an injured Chris Clemmons, it looked like he was playing with roller skates on. He couldn't carry Witherspoon's jockstrap.

The only first round pick...and we haven't had all that many because Pete has traded a number of them away...that is in the discussion along with 'Spoon is ET. Expand that to all draft picks and you can toss in Bobby, Russell, Sherman, Kam, et al.

[Aseahawkfan]

Bruce Irvin? You gotta be kidding me! Yes, Irvin was a decent pass rusher, but he got trucked on the run. In that playoff game vs. Atlanta when Irvin replaced an injured Chris Clemmons, it looked like he was playing with roller skates on. He couldn't carry Witherspoon's jockstrap.

The only first round pick...and we haven't had all that many because Pete has traded a number of them away...that is in the discussion along with 'Spoon is ET. Expand that to all draft picks and you can toss in Bobby, Russell, Sherman, Kam, et al.

I wonder how many teams trade as many first round picks as us. Or fail to make hay with them.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't guess we're unusual in that regard.

[NorthHawk]

It's odd that it's either feast or famine with our 1st picks.
Cross, to me should have a long career at LT. He won't (IMO) reach All Pro or maybe even Pro Bowl caliber, but he should be good enough to stick and be consistent for a decade.
For me, I'm happy if that occurs as it's not a wasted pick and really if you think about it, getting a decade of consistent play from a draft pick would be pretty good.

What I don't get on Offense is why we rarely develop the skill players. Does DK run a full route tree? All I ever see is a vertical game with a few outs or back shoulder throws. We've rarely used crossing patterns and the discussion was that Wilson was too short, but we rarely do it now with Geno. Are we really using JSN properly? How about Bobo? With so much promise of DK, Lockett, and JSN after the draft, to see it not developing is frustrating, much like we don't use TE's much either.

[I-5]

Love Spoon.

And I don't think Week 10 is 'way too early'...yes, lots of football left, but we're more than halfway to the end of the season.

Derrick Hall has definitely shown flashes of what he can do. Combined with Mafe, Spoon, and if Woolen gets his head on right again, this could be the mainstay of our D for years to come. Woolen looks lost right now, though.

[4XPIPS]

Bruce Irvin? You gotta be kidding me! Yes, Irvin was a decent pass rusher, but he got trucked on the run. In that playoff game vs. Atlanta when Irvin replaced an injured Chris Clemmons, it looked like he was playing with roller skates on. He couldn't carry Witherspoon's jockstrap.

The only first round pick...and we haven't had all that many because Pete has traded a number of them away...that is in the discussion along with 'Spoon is ET. Expand that to all draft picks and you can toss in Bobby, Russell, Sherman, Kam, et al.

You said first round picks, so I kept as first round picks. Look Bruce deserves some consideration, if you are just going by 1st round picks then it has to be. You can reflect on Bruce getting trucked, but Spoon has been beat by Amon-Ra St Brown in direct coverage.

1a Earl Thomas 1b Spoon
2 Bruce Irvin (honorable mention)

I mean who else would be in there, Russell Okung? He was so injured early on.

Season is long and there is still time to evaluate that Spoon is the legit best 1st round pick in the Pete Carroll era. The only thing working against Spoon is he can become a victim of his own success. Look at Sauce Gardner, he was so good early on that later in the season teams stopped throwing his way and his stats did drop, but then again that is product of his abilities.

It's pretty sad considering we have made quite a bit of 1st round picks that are either out of this league or flamed out and on other rosters.

[RiverDog]

Spoon is looking good. But a lot of other highly touted players are falling off making the past drafts look not as good.

Lucas is sitting on IR.
Riq is nowhere near last year.
KW3 still doing well enough.
I think RD said Cross is a middling LT at best according to ratings.
Boye Mafe is doing pretty well.
Charbonnett isn't getting many snaps, but doing ok.
Derrick Hall is doing nothing.

Since I have the premium subscription to PFF, here's some details on some of the players ASF mentioned above:

Yes, Charles Cross, at least according to PFF, is struggling, especially in his run blocking, scoring a 51.2 grade.

Tariq Woolen's overall grade was 62.0, or 61st amongst 114 cornerbacks that had a rating. He got docked on run defense and rushing the passer. His coverage rating was slightly better than his overall, at 64.7.

KW3 has a 72.0 overall offensive rating, which is very good. Not surprisingly, he gets docked heavily for his pass blocking with a 42.2 rating, which is horrible. His run blocking was better, but still well below his overall offensive rating.

Charbonnett is right behind KW3 in his overall offensive rating, but the big difference is that he gets a very, very good rating at pass blocking, at 89.6, one of the best in the league. Maybe that makes him a good 3rd down option?

Boye Mafe is, again according to PFF, doing extremely well. He has an 81.5 grade, good enough for 18th, not bad when he's competing against guys like Nick Bosa, TJ Watt, Miles Garrett, Maxx Crosby, Aidan Hutchinson, etc. It's nice when PFF's grade matches our own eye test.

Derrick Hall is struggling. He graded out at 56.7, with his worst grade being his run defense.

[RiverDog]

Bruce Irvin? You gotta be kidding me! Yes, Irvin was a decent pass rusher, but he got trucked on the run. In that playoff game vs. Atlanta when Irvin replaced an injured Chris Clemmons, it looked like he was playing with roller skates on. He couldn't carry Witherspoon's jockstrap.

The only first round pick...and we haven't had all that many because Pete has traded a number of them away...that is in the discussion along with 'Spoon is ET. Expand that to all draft picks and you can toss in Bobby, Russell, Sherman, Kam, et al.

You said first round picks, so I kept as first round picks. Look Bruce deserves some consideration, if you are just going by 1st round picks then it has to be. You can reflect on Bruce getting trucked, but Spoon has been beat by Amon-Ra St Brown in direct coverage.

1a Earl Thomas 1b Spoon
2 Bruce Irvin (honorable mention)

I mean who else would be in there, Russell Okung? He was so injured early on.

Season is long and there is still time to evaluate that Spoon is the legit best 1st round pick in the Pete Carroll era. The only thing working against Spoon is he can become a victim of his own success. Look at Sauce Gardner, he was so good early on that later in the season teams stopped throwing his way and his stats did drop, but then again that is product of his abilities.

It's pretty sad considering we have made quite a bit of 1st round picks that are either out of this league or flamed out and on other rosters.

Yes, I'd put Okung above Irvin as at least he made a Pro Bowl. Irvin never got a sniff at one. I'd also put Jordy Brooks ahead of Irvin, too. Just my humble opinion.

[4XPIPS]

Yes, I'd put Okung above Irvin as at least he made a Pro Bowl. Irvin never got a sniff at one. I'd also put Jordy Brooks ahead of Irvin, too. Just my humble opinion.

I value your opinion, but the body of work by comparison of what Spoon has done up to this point by comparison to our other 1st rounders. Since Jordy Brooks have been drafted our defense has been in the tank with 3rd downs and stopping the run. To this point of the season by comparison must of us were pretty high on Bruce Irvin, given that he was selected much higher than expected and came into the league with off field issues.

I do agree if he continues to light it up and make stake his name as a top DB in this league, Spoon will go down as the best 1st round pick in the Pete & JS era

[RiverDog]

Yes, I'd put Okung above Irvin as at least he made a Pro Bowl. Irvin never got a sniff at one. I'd also put Jordy Brooks ahead of Irvin, too. Just my humble opinion.

I value your opinion, but the body of work by comparison of what Spoon has done up to this point by comparison to our other 1st rounders. Since Jordy Brooks have been drafted our defense has been in the tank with 3rd downs and stopping the run. To this point of the season by comparison must of us were pretty high on Bruce Irvin, given that he was selected much higher than expected and came into the league with off field issues.

I do agree if he continues to light it up and make stake his name as a top DB in this league, Spoon will go down as the best 1st round pick in the Pete & JS era

I wasn't comparing Irvin with Spoon. I was comparing him with Okung and Brooks.

I never was particularly enamored with Bruce Irvin and felt that he was taken way ahead of where he should have gone, so I'll have to admit to a bit of a bias. I agree that Brooks has been somewhat of a disappointment to this point in his career. But at least Brooks is a solid, 3 down starter. Irvin came out in short yardage situations. He was a one trick pony. I'd put him down with James Carpenter and Germain Ifedi as far as first rounders go.

Spoon might not ever have the type of game he had against the Giants. That was a career game. But even if you scratch that game, he's had a very solid season, especially considering that we're playing him in the slot instead of the outside as was the original plan.

BTW, I commend you on your observation about Brooks being weak on run defense this season. Your comment made me take a peek at his PFF grade. Brooks's run defense is his lowest grade. But his overall grade is still decent, with a 70.2 or 38th amongst 81 rated linebackers.

[NorthHawk]

What sticks in my craw is we traded down past Fletcher Cox to select Irvin.
I thought it was a mistake then and you just have to look at both careers to see how they compare.

[4XPIPS]

What sticks in my craw is we traded down past Fletcher Cox to select Irvin.
I thought it was a mistake then and you just have to look at both careers to see how they compare.

I would not want to undo any of that draft no matter how it shakes out. That draft brought our only Superbowl Win. That draft got us

Russ
Bobby
Sweezy

What is interesting about that year's draft was Justin Tucker and Johnny Hekker both were undrafted that year, and look at their careers.

I would say we did take Jaye Howard over Mike Daniels in the later rounds, that could have been better for us, but none the less leave that draft alone.

[RiverDog]

I would not want to undo any of that draft no matter how it shakes out. That draft brought our only Superbowl Win. That draft got us

Russ
Bobby
Sweezy

What is interesting about that year's draft was Justin Tucker and Johnny Hekker both were undrafted that year, and look at their careers.

I would say we did take Jaye Howard over Mike Daniels in the later rounds, that could have been better for us, but none the less leave that draft alone.

Why wouldn't you have wanted to un-do that part of our draft? It doesn't mean that we wouldn't have drafted those other guys.

One of the things that doesn't speak well about our first-round picks is that we are the only team to have not picked up the 5th year option on any of them since that part of the CBA went into effect. Some of that is due at least in part to injuries (Penny, Brooks) and some of it due to the fact that we've traded away so many 1st rounders.

[NorthHawk]

I'd rather have Cox than Irvin. He was able to play both outside and in like Bennett so switching them could have been a much better DL than we had which was already pretty good.

So our important picks that year would have been
Cox
Wagner
Wilson