DK Balling in Big D -

[jshawaii22]

What a great game for DK to actually show that he's gotten better then he's really looked for the bulk of this year. This 1st half sets the stage to trade him for a #1 + #3 or similar (better then the maybe #2 we probably were going to get) or use him to help a trade, maybe our #1 along for Metcalf and ??? with Chicago for our new QB in the draft.

The team played the best half of the year just now. I hope they can keep it up. Would be a great win on national TV. And we're on tap to play in Phily on Monday night instead of Sunday afternoon as the NFL just switched the game.

[c_hawkbob]

The difference is Geno. A whole lotta balls the last few games were behind him or low or balls he had to slow down for, tonight he's leading him perfectly and giving him balls he can high point and getting the ball out almost immediately.

[Aseahawkfan]

I thought we would pull that out. It was a great game. Pete's 36-0 record when scoring over 35 points is ended. Just another sign he's past his prime that his defense can't hold teams under 35 points for a near guaranteed win if we score that high.

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah and Dallas finally got a win against a team with a winni... hold on, we're 6-6 now so...

Anyhow I thought he could pull it out too. I was expecting a loss but damn, we did look a lot better tonight. Too bad.

[trents]

Unimaginative handoff to the running back on 4th down toward the end of the game. Everyone in the stadium knew that was coming.

Geno looked more decisive to night and was getting the ball out quicker. I liked his TD dash up the middle, too. I think that kind of play has been open to him more often than he has recognized it for much of the year. But the last couple of games he has picked up on it better.

[jshawaii22]

DK's 50 YAC TD has been listed as the fasted NFL run since 2020. JSN also balled out tonight to his best game as a Seahawk. He needs to learn a couple of fine points but all in all, I was impressed.
No punts in the game.... that's wild.

[RiverDog]

Yes, Metcalf had a great game. They finally started doing something with him other than just trying to hit him on a sprint down the sidelines. And yes, Geno looked better than he has recently.

But at the end of the day, we were a day late and a dollar short.

[NorthHawk]

They started throwing into the middle like we've talked about needing to do.
On DK's first TD the announcer talked about how Bland took an outside position and DK took an inside move. I would think the film study would suggest the expected route would be an out pattern and caught him and the Safety off guard.
There was also varied formations and the use of TE's.
Where has this been the last 10 games? I would suspect Pete looked at the Dallas Offense and realized he couldn't play it close so he allowed them to open it up. After scoring only a few TDs in the past 3 games it was obvious that things had to change.

[jshawaii22]

Where has this been the last 10 games? I would suspect Pete looked at the Dallas Offense and realized he couldn't play it close so he allowed them to open it up

Notes for off-season: Beg (evidently, that's what it would take) Pete to move up or retire. Get New head coach. (Yes, Jim Harbaugh would be my first and only choice right now) Along with a New DC and OC with the new coach.

Draft the QB of the future or 2 QB's to play safe. Trade DK if you need the draft capital to move up to get whichever QB JH wants to go forward with.

Do not draft a RB in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th round.... Do not trade out of good picks, if there is a need and there is ALWAYS a need to be filled.

[RiverDog]

Where has this been the last 10 games? I would suspect Pete looked at the Dallas Offense and realized he couldn't play it close so he allowed them to open it up

Notes for off-season: Beg (evidently, that's what it would take) Pete to move up or retire. Get New head coach. (Yes, Jim Harbaugh would be my first and only choice right now) Along with a New DC and OC with the new coach.

Draft the QB of the future or 2 QB's to play safe. Trade DK if you need the draft capital to move up to get whichever QB JH wants to go forward with.

Do not draft a RB in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th round.... Do not trade out of good picks, if there is a need and there is ALWAYS a need to be filled.

I don't want to get into another Hairball debate, so I'm not commenting about that part.

I'm afraid that the trade Metcalf ship might have sailed. He has this huge contract and despite his huge game last Thursday, isn't having a Pro Bowl season, nor did he have one last year, either. Plus, he continues to rack up penalties and he's gained a reputation of having a thin skin. If we can't get at least a first rounder plus a 3rd or 4th, I don't think we get a good enough ROI to justify a trade.

I agree completely with not drafting anymore RB's with first- or second-day picks. I don't think it necessary that we draft 2 QB's. Schneider seems to have a good eye for QB's, so I'll defer to his judgement.

[NorthHawk]

We have 2 young RBs so that isn't necessary. Wait for 2 years and draft another good one then let Walker go in FA. It helps keeps the Cap in check and we need more discipline in that area.
I would hire Eric Bienemy, the OC of the Commanders. He's done a lot with Howell and was a big part of Mahomes development, so he would be a great choice for a young QB to develop under.

[Oly]

DK should be worth at least a top-10 pick in a trade. Imagine him an an offense that could routinely get him the ball in his hands on clever crossing routes and slants. He has the strength to routinely break a tackle and the speed to outrun a defense once he breaks that first tackle. All he needs are clever routes and a routinely accurate QB and he could be one of the very few Moss-like receivers who is worthy of a big contract. I'm usually in RD's camp in thinking receivers are like running backs and generally not worth the huge contract. An accurate QB and good OC are much more important to a good passing game. But what DK did in Dallas wasn't a fluke in terms of his ability. If Waldron quits telling him to just run go routes up the sidelines and starts using the middle of the field, and if Geno can hit him in stride, he's capable of 100+ yard games every week.

I doubt anyone offers a trade of what DK is worth, and that's fine by me. Keep him, develop a new QB and get a new OC, and we'll still have plenty of years to watch DK in his prime in a Hawks uni.

[RiverDog]

DK should be worth at least a top-10 pick in a trade. Imagine him an an offense that could routinely get him the ball in his hands on clever crossing routes and slants. He has the strength to routinely break a tackle and the speed to outrun a defense once he breaks that first tackle. All he needs are clever routes and a routinely accurate QB and he could be one of the very few Moss-like receivers who is worthy of a big contract. I'm usually in RD's camp in thinking receivers are like running backs and generally not worth the huge contract. An accurate QB and good OC are much more important to a good passing game. But what DK did in Dallas wasn't a fluke in terms of his ability. If Waldron quits telling him to just run go routes up the sidelines and starts using the middle of the field, and if Geno can hit him in stride, he's capable of 100+ yard games every week.

I doubt anyone offers a trade of what DK is worth, and that's fine by me. Keep him, develop a new QB and get a new OC, and we'll still have plenty of years to watch DK in his prime in a Hawks uni.

There's no way a team is going to give up a top 10 pick for Metcalf. Wide receivers don't generally go that high. Last season, the first WR taken in the draft was when we drafted JSN at #20 overall. And Metcalf is not an All Pro, not even close, not when there's players like Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Justin Jefferson, AJ Brown, et al. ahead of him. I'd be happy with any first-round pick plus a player or 2nd-3rd day pick. But we're not going to get that, so I'm like you, at this point, we might as well keep him.

Metcalf had a fantastic game last week, but I'm not prepared to say that it wasn't a fluke. We have to keep in mind that our offense in general played extraordinarily well, not having even punted the entire game. That's not going to happen this Sunday.

[Oly]

There's no way a team is going to give up a top 10 pick for Metcalf. Wide receivers don't generally go that high. Last season, the first WR taken in the draft was when we drafted JSN at #20 overall. And Metcalf is not an All Pro, not even close, not when there's players like Tyreek Hill, Deebo Samuel, Justin Jefferson, AJ Brown, et al. ahead of him. I'd be happy with any first-round pick plus a player or 2nd-3rd day pick. But we're not going to get that, so I'm like you, at this point, we might as well keep him.

Metcalf had a fantastic game last week, but I'm not prepared to say that it wasn't a fluke. We have to keep in mind that our offense in general played extraordinarily well, not having even punted the entire game. That's not going to happen this Sunday.

Whether or not anyone will give up that pick, I think he's worth that on the trade market. First, taking a WR in the Top 10 isn't that ludicrous. Here is a recent sampling:

2022: Drake London (#8)
2021: Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith (4, 5, 10)
2017: Corey Davis, Mike Williams, John Ross (5, 7, 9)
2015: Amari Cooper, Kevin White (4, 7)
2014: Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans (4, 7)

There is talk of Marvin Harrison Jr. going as high as #3 next year, as well.

Clearly, teams value WR enough to pick them in the top 10. When you look at the performance of those WRs above, I can see a GM being more comfortable trading for DK than risking the top 10 pick. I wouldn't want JSPC to do that—we've seen the Hawks get burned by those trades recently—but teams will give up valuable picks for proven talent.

My point is that some other team could easily look at Metcalf and see All Pro potential if he had a better system and QB. And I agree. I think that the Dallas game was a fluke on this team, but because it's a fluke that Waldron would call a good game for him and Smith would actually hit him in the middle of the field. I don't think it's a fluke considering his abilities. I think some other GM with a better OC and QB will see DK's unique qualities and think that he'd be worth a Top-10 pick. At the very least, I think Schneider should be able to make that case when setting his demands.

Personally, I value a top 10 pick more than Metcalf, but I value him over most 1st rounders unless some can't-miss prospect drops lower than expected. I'm not sure about the middle-1st, especially with what seems to be a draft with fewer legit 1st round grades. I'd also be willing to give up Metcalf and our 1st to jump into the top 5 to pick a QB if the brass is in love with a prospect.

[RiverDog]

Whether or not anyone will give up that pick, I think he's worth that on the trade market. First, taking a WR in the Top 10 isn't that ludicrous. Here is a recent sampling:

2022: Drake London (#8)
2021: Ja'Marr Chase, Jaylen Waddle, DeVonta Smith (4, 5, 10)
2017: Corey Davis, Mike Williams, John Ross (5, 7, 9)
2015: Amari Cooper, Kevin White (4, 7)
2014: Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans (4, 7)

There is talk of Marvin Harrison Jr. going as high as #3 next year, as well.

Clearly, teams value WR enough to pick them in the top 10. When you look at the performance of those WRs above, I can see a GM being more comfortable trading for DK than risking the top 10 pick. I wouldn't want JSPC to do that—we've seen the Hawks get burned by those trades recently—but teams will give up valuable picks for proven talent.

My point is that some other team could easily look at Metcalf and see All Pro potential if he had a better system and QB. And I agree. I think that the Dallas game was a fluke on this team, but because it's a fluke that Waldron would call a good game for him and Smith would actually hit him in the middle of the field. I don't think it's a fluke considering his abilities. I think some other GM with a better OC and QB will see DK's unique qualities and think that he'd be worth a Top-10 pick. At the very least, I think Schneider should be able to make that case when setting his demands.

Personally, I value a top 10 pick more than Metcalf, but I value him over most 1st rounders unless some can't-miss prospect drops lower than expected. I'm not sure about the middle-1st, especially with what seems to be a draft with fewer legit 1st round grades. I'd also be willing to give up Metcalf and our 1st to jump into the top 5 to pick a QB if the brass is in love with a prospect.

There's a lot of gaps in that list. However, I'll concede that specific point.

However, to my point about Metcalf not playing to an All-Pro level, which IMO is what it would take for someone to offer up a top 10 pick. He'd have to be playing somewhere along the lines of a Tyreek Hill or Deebo Samuel and routinely have 10 reception and/or 100 yards and/or 2 TD games, similar to his production last Thursday in order for a team to put out that much cheese. Metcalf is simply not that good.

[NorthHawk]

DK isn't asked to do much more than go routes. Occasionally he does some routes to the inside and he makes big plays, but most of his routes are just straight downfield. It's part of the limiting factors from Peteball.
We used to say Russell didn't or couldn't throw down the middle, but now we see Geno is hesitant as well unless we really need points then he does it. Since they do it often in Dallas with our old OC, it can only be Pete that limits that option and not the OC or QB.

[RiverDog]

DK isn't asked to do much more than go routes. Occasionally he does some routes to the inside and he makes big plays, but most of his routes are just straight downfield. It's part of the limiting factors from Peteball.
We used to say Russell didn't or couldn't throw down the middle, but now we see Geno is hesitant as well unless we really need points then he does it. Since they do it often in Dallas with our old OC, it can only be Pete that limits that option and not the OC or QB.

Make no mistake: Mike McCarthy runs the offense in Dallas.

[NorthHawk]

McCarthy calls the plays, but the OC is Schottenheimer who designs them and assists with the game planning along with coaching during the week.

[jshawaii22]

Nothing has changed my mind during this unprecedented losing streak about DK and his "personality"... Trade him as part of a package to move up in the draft. Let our new front office/coach decide who to draft and how to move forward. All the bs about Harbaugh 'close to signing' a new contract has gone very, very quiet this past week. Maybe he's waiting until after the playoffs, but he is my first choice. We are stuck in mud right now.

Is it time to start the discussion about how Penix and Nix and not in any top 10 mock drafts, but JJ McCarthy is? What are these "experts" looking at? Age? I don't know much about the kid from NC State or any others East of the Mississippi, but damn, both UW and O trounced Caleb this year and looked better doing it (to me!) --

[4XPIPS]

Nothing has changed my mind during this unprecedented losing streak about DK and his "personality"... Trade him as part of a package to move up in the draft. Let our new front office/coach decide who to draft and how to move forward. All the bs about Harbaugh 'close to signing' a new contract has gone very, very quiet this past week. Maybe he's waiting until after the playoffs, but he is my first choice. We are stuck in mud right now.

Is it time to start the discussion about how Penix and Nix and not in any top 10 mock drafts, but JJ McCarthy is? What are these "experts" looking at? Age? I don't know much about the kid from NC State or any others East of the Mississippi, but damn, both UW and O trounced Caleb this year and looked better doing it (to me!) --

JJ has not quite said he coming out for the NFL, he could stay one more year and lead the QB group next draft, of course he as championship to go capitalize on.

I am not quite sold on Penix as much as I am sold on Bo Nix. I like Bo for his athleticism, and his ability to work off script. He also very smart with ball, he only had 3 ints this last season, and was only sacked 5 times all year.

Michael Penix has 9 INTS this season, and was sacked 10 times all year. However, his signature win was against the Ducks at the end of the season. He also has played 6 years of College football, I guess something to do with the COVID year, but he has played more college football at QB then most coming out for this draft class. Will be interesting to see how well he does come playoff time.

I would be happy any rookie QB next year, but I just think Bo offers the tools we need to help a struggling o-line and protects the ball better than any other draft prospect coming out at QB.

[jshawaii22]

I like Nix, too. In the "first mock of ESPN" today, Nix was not taken until the 3rd round, and not by us. That's the part I don't get. 3rd round for a 6 year college player with a ton of good starts in the last 2 years. I would take the shot on him.

js

[4XPIPS]

I like Nix, too. In the "first mock of ESPN" today, Nix was not taken until the 3rd round, and not by us. That's the part I don't get. 3rd round for a 6 year college player with a ton of good starts in the last 2 years. I would take the shot on him.

js

Yeah that seems a little bit harsh for Bo in the third round, but there is a lot of hype for JJ, Caleb and of course Drake Maye. I project Bo NIx to be taken in the second round, and if he is there the Hawks should take him Let's see how is pro day and combine results turn out

[c_hawkbob]

I like Penix netter than Nix myself, but I still wish we'd taken Levis this year so what do I know.

[4XPIPS]

I like Penix netter than Nix myself, but I still wish we'd taken Levis this year so what do I know.

Yeah Levis would have been a nice addition, but we will get a good look at him when we travel to play the Titans. I be happy with either, but we shall see in this next draft if the Hawk's take a QB early or late in the draft. Some have Bo falling to the 4th round, I kind of find that hard to imagine. It's just a crap shoot with QBs, some really live up to the draft grade and position, while others fall completely short. Some of the NFL writers who cover the Panthers are feeling that may have mis evaluated Bryce and probably wish they took CJ now. Even Kenny Pickett was sort of a reach for the Steelers, and he hasn't flashed much as a starting QB.

If we take a QB in this upcoming draft I think we should be excited and hope we give this young QB a chance to develop and be a solid starter.

[RiverDog]

I like Penix netter than Nix myself, but I still wish we'd taken Levis this year so what do I know.

In retrospect, It would have been nice had we taken him with our native 1st rounder. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to pass on Witherspoon.

[NorthHawk]

I was hoping for Levis, too as he was schooled by Liam Cohen who used to work for the Rams along with Waldron so the change wouldn't have been much of a step relative to a completely different Offense.
Sitting for a year or thereabouts would have done him well

I'm not sure about Penix as the Washington Offense is similar to Ohio St with real good receivers and a scheme that leaves a lot of open targets. I'm not sure how well he does under pressure, either as his OL has been pretty good in pass protection.
Of the two I like Nix better because he's faced adversity and rebuilt his game after his Auburn experience. I think that humbles a young player and on the physical side I think he's a better runner than Penix.
But there are going to be others out there, too in the draft and we will have to hope one of the good ones slides to us in the first.

[c_hawkbob]

To all y'all that keep hatin' on DK:

Gregg Bell @gbellseattle
14
#Seahawks DK Metcalf is the 3rd NFL player to have 900+ yards receiving and 5+ receiving touchdowns in each of the first five seasons of a career.
The others: AJ. Green and Hall of Famer Randy Moss.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

In retrospect, It would have been nice had we taken him with our native 1st rounder. I certainly wouldn't have wanted to pass on Witherspoon.

Might not have pulled out the win against the Eagles without Smith-Njigba.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

To all y'all that keep hatin' on DK:

Gregg Bell @gbellseattle
14
#Seahawks DK Metcalf is the 3rd NFL player to have 900+ yards receiving and 5+ receiving touchdowns in each of the first five seasons of a career.
The others: AJ. Green and Hall of Famer Randy Moss.

Most fans know what we have. When he’s on he’s on; just wish he would do that all the time and not let defenders get in his head. The rash reactions can and have hurt the team.

ETA: Im still a fan of his, though. Seahawks are a better team with him.

[Old but Slow]

Perhaps it just the cynic that lives in me and whispers in my ear, that Metcalf is held back by the very basic route tree that Waldron runs. With an offensive coordinator like a Shanahan (they are a dime-a-dozen) Metcalf could make Deebee Samuel look like a dray horse. We have a rare athlete, and, as an aside, we seem to have a good eye for receivers, and he could be used much more creatively. I can't remember him taking an end around lately, with his speed, why not?

Okay, I am blathering a bit, so quit reading while I carry on. Or not. The Seahawks are a very talent laden team. Hooray! However, they are stale, mediocre, and are listing badly. My hope (hopeless?), is that they will change the entire coaching staff, and bring in a young offensive head coach, and let him choose his own staff. Offenses are changing now, and new concepts can not be ignored if the aim is to keep pace or succeed. I continue to be very draft oriented, so I will be looking for an offensive interior lineman in the middle rounds (or earlier) and definitely a QB. I also want a big body for the middle of the D line. A true nose guy.

And, no, Shanahans are not a dime-a-dozen. Sorry. As an 80 year old hermit, I try not to rave in public, so I come here to victimize you. Thank you.

[RiverDog]

Perhaps it just the cynic that lives in me and whispers in my ear, that Metcalf is held back by the very basic route tree that Waldron runs. With an offensive coordinator like a Shanahan (they are a dime-a-dozen) Metcalf could make Deebee Samuel look like a dray horse. We have a rare athlete, and, as an aside, we seem to have a good eye for receivers, and he could be used much more creatively. I can't remember him taking an end around lately, with his speed, why not?

Okay, I am blathering a bit, so quit reading while I carry on. Or not. The Seahawks are a very talent laden team. Hooray! However, they are stale, mediocre, and are listing badly. My hope (hopeless?), is that they will change the entire coaching staff, and bring in a young offensive head coach, and let him choose his own staff. Offenses are changing now, and new concepts can not be ignored if the aim is to keep pace or succeed. I continue to be very draft oriented, so I will be looking for an offensive interior lineman in the middle rounds (or earlier) and definitely a QB. I also want a big body for the middle of the D line. A true nose guy.

And, no, Shanahans are not a dime-a-dozen. Sorry. As an 80 year old hermit, I try not to rave in public, so I come here to victimize you. Thank you.

First of all, it's only old phuckers like you and me that know what a dray horse is without doing a Google. FYI my grandfather worked as a drayman.

Secondly, did you just compare DK Metcalf to Deebo Samuel? Is it scotch or bourbon? I don't think you're chasing it with water often enough.

[NorthHawk]

Perhaps it just the cynic that lives in me and whispers in my ear, that Metcalf is held back by the very basic route tree that Waldron runs. With an offensive coordinator like a Shanahan (they are a dime-a-dozen) Metcalf could make Deebee Samuel look like a dray horse. We have a rare athlete, and, as an aside, we seem to have a good eye for receivers, and he could be used much more creatively. I can't remember him taking an end around lately, with his speed, why not?

Okay, I am blathering a bit, so quit reading while I carry on. Or not. The Seahawks are a very talent laden team. Hooray! However, they are stale, mediocre, and are listing badly. My hope (hopeless?), is that they will change the entire coaching staff, and bring in a young offensive head coach, and let him choose his own staff. Offenses are changing now, and new concepts can not be ignored if the aim is to keep pace or succeed. I continue to be very draft oriented, so I will be looking for an offensive interior lineman in the middle rounds (or earlier) and definitely a QB. I also want a big body for the middle of the D line. A true nose guy.

And, no, Shanahans are not a dime-a-dozen. Sorry. As an 80 year old hermit, I try not to rave in public, so I come here to victimize you. Thank you.

I hadn't heard the term Dray horse before, but assume it's a Draft horse used for pulling wagons.

I agree, ObS. We seem to have the ability to acquire talented Receivers and not use them properly. Graham is the most glaring example, but we don't get the most out of DK and I fear we won't get the most out of JSN unless Pete leaves.
People rag on the OC, but this stuff has been going on for 3 OCs and the only common denominator is Pete Carroll and how he wants to play. Waldron is a McVay disciple, but we don't see much of that except for against teams where we really have
to have a big Offensive showing or are behind in the 4th quarter. When Russell was here, we would keep it close or be a bit behind and then in the 4th Pete would hand the ball to Wilson and say go win it for us. The same thing seems to be happening again now but with less successful results even though we have some real studs on Offense. We should be hanging 35 - 40 points on most teams, but we are being held back by the Offensive philosophy.

[RiverDog]

Perhaps it just the cynic that lives in me and whispers in my ear, that Metcalf is held back by the very basic route tree that Waldron runs. With an offensive coordinator like a Shanahan (they are a dime-a-dozen) Metcalf could make Deebee Samuel look like a dray horse. We have a rare athlete, and, as an aside, we seem to have a good eye for receivers, and he could be used much more creatively. I can't remember him taking an end around lately, with his speed, why not?

Okay, I am blathering a bit, so quit reading while I carry on. Or not. The Seahawks are a very talent laden team. Hooray! However, they are stale, mediocre, and are listing badly. My hope (hopeless?), is that they will change the entire coaching staff, and bring in a young offensive head coach, and let him choose his own staff. Offenses are changing now, and new concepts can not be ignored if the aim is to keep pace or succeed. I continue to be very draft oriented, so I will be looking for an offensive interior lineman in the middle rounds (or earlier) and definitely a QB. I also want a big body for the middle of the D line. A true nose guy.

And, no, Shanahans are not a dime-a-dozen. Sorry. As an 80 year old hermit, I try not to rave in public, so I come here to victimize you. Thank you.

I hadn't heard the term Dray horse before, but assume it's a Draft horse used for pulling wagons.

A flat bed wagon, used for deliveries. Back in the 30's, my grandfather drove a flatbed delivery truck which was also called a dray. It's a lost term that only old farts would know of.

I agree, ObS. We seem to have the ability to acquire talented Receivers and not use them properly. Graham is the most glaring example, but we don't get the most out of DK and I fear we won't get the most out of JSN unless Pete leaves.
People rag on the OC, but this stuff has been going on for 3 OCs and the only common denominator is Pete Carroll and how he wants to play. Waldron is a McVay disciple, but we don't see much of that except for against teams where we really have
to have a big Offensive showing or are behind in the 4th quarter. When Russell was here, we would keep it close or be a bit behind and then in the 4th Pete would hand the ball to Wilson and say go win it for us. The same thing seems to be happening again now but with less successful results even though we have some real studs on Offense. We should be hanging 35 - 40 points on most teams, but we are being held back by the Offensive philosophy.

I don't disagree that Metcalf is being limited and that we're not taking advantage of him, but Debo Samuel? Come on, man!

[Old but Slow]

Okay, maybe it was a bad model, but I was indicating using him in other ways, maybe even running the ball.

[RiverDog]

Okay, maybe it was a bad model, but I was indicating using him in other ways, maybe even running the ball.

Metcalf really isn't cut out to be a hybrid running back/receiver ala Samuel and Tyreek Hill. He's not that quick off the ball and isn't elusive. The other thing that one of the things that makes WR's like Deebo and Hill effective running the ball on jet sweeps is that when they go in motion, they're short enough that the get lost when they run horizontally behind the OL. Deebo is 6'0, Hill is 5'10". At 6'4", Metcalf wouldn't be able to disappear like the shorter WR's do.

I think that we could do a few different things with Metcalf, maybe put him in motion some so as to get away from being jammed at the LOS, let him line up in the slot or as an inline tight end just to throw defenses off. We do tend to be pretty vanilla in our use of him.

[c_hawkbob]

I think you will just always underrate DK to support you initial "we need to trade him" take. We've not come close to exploring all he's capable of. As far as that goes we don't use him enough for what we know he good for. IMO if he doesn't get 4 looks beyond 20 yards a game we're wasting him. Sometimes he doesn't get a target till the second half.

[NorthHawk]

I was thinking along the same lines, our route trees are limited with him and only on occasion do we have him run crossing routes.
It's wasting his talents and physical advantages, in my opinion. And I can't really see him as a hybrid WR/RB weapon like Deebo. But properly planned quick screens? Throw more of them then go deep from the same formation.
Keep the Defense honest.

[RiverDog]

I think you will just always underrate DK to support you initial "we need to trade him" take. We've not come close to exploring all he's capable of. As far as that goes we don't use him enough for what we know he good for. IMO if he doesn't get 4 looks beyond 20 yards a game we're wasting him. Sometimes he doesn't get a target till the second half.

Let me be clear about my opinion regarding Metcalf so that you will quit mischaracterizing it. I've only advocated that we trade him if the price is right, which IMO was at least a 1st rounder plus, a price that I don't think we'd get and said quite some time ago that the "trade Metcalf" ship has sailed.

Additionally, over the years, I think I've made my POV very well known in that I generally de-value the WR position. How many times have you heard me say that they are "a dime a dozen"? I didn't like that we burned our top pick and one of only 3 picks in 2021 on a WR and our #20 overall in 2023 on a WR and said so when they happened. I've also lamented the fact that we have so much money tied up in WR's at the expense of other positions. It should be obvious that my opinions aren't necessarily directed at Metcalf. So please, cease with this "support your initial we need to trade him" nonsense. It's simply not true.

But I agree with your last two sentences, and I've said as much.

[Aseahawkfan]

Ain't nobody Deebo, but Deebo. Last player I saw that was like Deebo was Percy Harvin. He could have been every bit as good as Deebo, but he was insane.

DK is great, but he ain't Deebo. Deebo is one of those freak, unique players that can do a lot of different things. When Deebo is out in Frisco, they feel that because ain't nobody Deebo, but Deebo.

Shanahan could do better things with DK, but he wouldn't do Deebo type of things because DK isn't that type of player. He's far bigger, less elusive, and more of a straight-line speed guy. I think he would work on exploiting DK's size and speed more than we do.

[RiverDog]

Ain't nobody Deebo, but Deebo. Last player I saw that was like Deebo was Percy Harvin. He could have been every bit as good as Deebo, but he was insane.

DK is great, but he ain't Deebo. Deebo is one of those freak, unique players that can do a lot of different things. When Deebo is out in Frisco, they feel that because ain't nobody Deebo, but Deebo.

Shanahan could do better things with DK, but he wouldn't do Deebo type of things because DK isn't that type of player. He's far bigger, less elusive, and more of a straight-line speed guy. I think he would work on exploiting DK's size and speed more than we do.

Tyreek Hill is in that class, too, except that he's not quite as complete of a runner. Same with Percy Harvin. Deebo could play as a 3 down running back.

Agreed about Metcalf.